Help me choose a bulk-buy for inexpesnive 9mm competitive shooting. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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GammaDriver
10-28-2010, 09:51
As per this thread "Do you compete with the same ammo you practice with? " (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=16211764#post16211764) I got thinking that it is time I start reloading 9mm for fun and future competitive shooting.

I'm looking for suggestions on how to save the most money (or at least a good amount of money - I don't want to buy 500 pounds of powder right now just to save more) on my next, oh, 1000 rounds of 9mm.

I already own a Lee Breech Lock reloading press (http://www.leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse.cgi?1288280721.2447=/html/catalog/rlpress1.html#breech), so that' what I'm going with. Sure, it isn't the fastest, but it will save me more money to use it than to buy a new press.

So, to save on shipping costs, how about we go for all parts from one retailer?

I guess I'll need
bullets (it's a LW barrel at the moment, but may be for a future G17 or G34)
powder
primers
dies
I think I have everything else. The powder must measure well (e.g. consistently) through the typical Lee powder dumper.

I already have walnut media and such for cleaning, too.

I would like to go for a reduced power factor (which means less recoil, more fun, and I guess less cost in powder per cartridge), but until I get a different recoil spring we're gonna have to go with enough to move the slide as it is.

Thanks for any suggestions.

whatsupglock
10-28-2010, 09:57
Do a search on 9mm relaoding. There is so much info out there it will make your head hurt. Welcome to the joy and frustrations of reloading.

I do not have different loads for different events, ie practice or match. Different loads change the timing of the gun. Makes no sense to me to time the gun one way for practice and another for a match.

TiteGroup powder is easy to use, but follow the recomendations very closely. A little goes a loooooooooong way. Too much powder and bad things happen. As far as primers go, buy what's available. You'll see what I mean. Just try to stick with the same primers each time.

cowboy1964
10-28-2010, 10:04
Powder and primers have to ship separately and there is the $24 hazmat fee. It is what it is. So you can order dies and bullets from somewhere else if it works out better for pricing. Many places have free shipping on bullets (and Berry's seem to have the best pricing I've seen).

Primers are available all over now. I've even seen some on sale. A year ago they were pretty much impossible to find. Now is a good time to start reloading.

Powder is the least expensive part. It makes almost no difference in cost between a mild load and a hot one.

XDRoX
10-28-2010, 10:08
You're going to have a very hard time finding all those things in stock at one site, I just looked.

Some sites to check out components:
Widener's (http://www.wideners.com/index.cfm)
Graf's (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/599)
Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/)

Bullets:
Berry's plated bullets (http://berrysmfg.com/)
Montana Gold (http://montanagoldbullet.com/)
Precision Delta (http://precisiondelta.com/)

Hope this helps.

XDRoX
10-28-2010, 10:10
Powder and primers have to ship separately and there is the $24 hazmat fee. It is what it is. So you can order dies and bullets from somewhere else if it works out better for pricing.

If Widener's happens to have everything he needs in stock, then they will ship everything in one package and the OP will only have to pay one hazmat.

I just got a package on Monday from Graf's and it had primers, powder, and bullets, all in the same package.

cowboy1964
10-28-2010, 10:24
I just got a package on Monday from Graf's and it had primers, powder, and bullets, all in the same package.

Good to know. I'm going to be buying my Lee press from Graf's.

ron59
10-28-2010, 10:55
Yeah... trying to find all those from ONE supplier will be next to impossible. At least to get them in the money saving bulk you want.

For powder and primers... *the* place to go is Powder Valley. The thing is, ordered anyplace online, the Hazmat fee really drives the cost up. To offset this, you have to order a BUNCH.

I order primers only in quantities of 10,000. That makes the $25.00 per 1000 primer be $270.xx (maybe a little more) so you get the primers at $27 per 1000 with fees/shipping thrown in. If you *know* what powder you like, get a 8 pound jug of that on the same order, the hazmat fee will cover that as well.

For bullets... either Montana Gold or Precision Delta. If you're only ordering lots of 1000 bullets, PD is cheaper. I buy them by the "case" at MG, and I think they come out cheaper, plus they're a better bullet. I get 3000 147gr bullets for $305 (shipped). Great deal.

You also listed "dies". That is obviously not a component, but a one-time purchase. Buy them wherever is cheapest... maybe get some other stuff as well to offset shipping. Think targets, cleaning supplies, additional mags, etc. I use Midway quite a bit for that type of stuff. The places that sell powder/primers the cheapest don't sell dies, the places that sell dies don't sell powders/primers the cheapest.

For maximum savings... yeah, your upfront costs can be expensive (like: $300 for 3000 bullets, $270 for 10,000 primers, extra for powder). But that should last quite awhile.

IndyGunFreak
10-28-2010, 11:03
You're going to have a very hard time finding all those things in stock at one site, I just looked.

Some sites to check out components:
Widener's (http://www.wideners.com/index.cfm)
Graf's (http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/599)
Powder Valley (http://www.powdervalleyinc.com/)

Bullets:
Berry's plated bullets (http://berrysmfg.com/)
Montana Gold (http://montanagoldbullet.com/)
Precision Delta (http://precisiondelta.com/)

Hope this helps.

This...

GammaDriver
10-28-2010, 11:08
Alright - thanks guys. I was actually thinking of Midway, but I didn't realize they were considered high enough to cause someone to order some parts from there, but to pay another shipping fee from some place else for primers, bullets and powder.

I've got enough to go on, now.

Which grain bullet should I use for a lighter perceived recoil from a stock recoil spring? 147gr?

IndyGunFreak
10-28-2010, 11:13
Alright - thanks guys. I was actually thinking of Midway, but I didn't realize they were considered high enough to cause someone to order some parts from there, but to pay another shipping fee from some place else for primers, bullets and powder.

I've got enough to go on, now.

Which grain bullet should I use for a lighter perceived recoil from a stock recoil spring? 147gr?

Recoil is fairly subjective... you can load some bunny fart loads in almost any weight...

Does your competition require that your ammo meet a minimum power factor? That would be a factor in what and how you load.

GammaDriver
10-28-2010, 11:21
Recoil is fairly subjective... you can load some bunny fart loads in almost any weight...

Does your competition require that your ammo meet a minimum power factor? That would be a factor in what and how you load.

I believe it does, but as the original post stated - my weapon isn't yet ready for minimum power factor loads. That would require a different recoil spring which I'm looking to get. I guess I could just play around with a conservative load and bring it down until the weapon FTE's, then bring it back up a little - that is, until I get a spring.

Probably should just order the spring now, though, and do it all at one time.

XDRoX
10-28-2010, 11:33
FWIW, my plinking load is 124gr plated round nose (Berry's), CCI spp's, mixed brass, and 4.5gr of Winchester WST. Clean burning, low recoil, and accurate.

Boxerglocker
10-28-2010, 11:57
You definately have to go to differenet sources to get the best bulk buys, other than primers and powder if your lucky and the supplier has both of what you want in stock.

I load my 9mm at $107 a thousand using PD 124g bullets and TG. I could easily go below $100 just from switching to Moly 125g RN bullets of which we have a Bear Creek distributer in our club. I would at that point switch powders too though.

Curently if you were to load what I load you would roughly pay a little more maybe $125-130 a K.

PD 124FMJ at $70 a K you would pay $74 if you bought 2K at a time.
TG at $60 a 4# jug and 5K of primers at $30-35K (plus hazmat and shipping)
Brass - FREE

Boxerglocker
10-28-2010, 12:01
I believe it does, but as the original post stated - my weapon isn't yet ready for minimum power factor loads. That would require a different recoil spring which I'm looking to get. I guess I could just play around with a conservative load and bring it down until the weapon FTE's, then bring it back up a little - that is, until I get a spring.

Probably should just order the spring now, though, and do it all at one time.

There are so many loads for IDPA/USPSA in 9mm minor that are proven you won't really need to. My load is runs 1110-1150. Make PF out of my G34 game gun with a 13# recoil spring and also my G19 stock. I developed it that way as my G19 is a back-up gun for competition as well as a carry/HD firearm.

ron59
10-28-2010, 12:26
Which grain bullet should I use for a lighter perceived recoil from a stock recoil spring? 147gr?

Some others have rung in already... but my answer to this is "yes". I can reload my 147gr to FACTORY PF (let's say around 130-133PF), and it "feels lighter" than WWB which is 115gr.

I occasionally will load up a magazine, alternating my rounds with the WWB rounds, then shoot that. It still surprises me at the difference in recoil. Definitely noticeable.

GammaDriver
10-28-2010, 12:39
Some others have rung in already... but my answer to this is "yes". I can reload my 147gr to FACTORY PF (let's say around 130-133PF), and it "feels lighter" than WWB which is 115gr.

I occasionally will load up a magazine, alternating my rounds with the WWB rounds, then shoot that. It still surprises me at the difference in recoil. Definitely noticeable.

Loads of good info in this thread - thanks guys.

This 147 load interests me, care to share the powder and amount?

Boxerglocker
10-28-2010, 13:25
Which grain bullet should I use for a lighter perceived recoil from a stock recoil spring? 147gr?

Some others have rung in already... but my answer to this is "yes". I can reload my 147gr to FACTORY PF (let's say around 130-133PF), and it "feels lighter" than WWB which is 115gr.

I occasionally will load up a magazine, alternating my rounds with the WWB rounds, then shoot that. It still surprises me at the difference in recoil. Definitely noticeable.

Loads of good info in this thread - thanks guys.

This 147 load interests me, care to share the powder and amount?

I'm not trying to sway you from going Ron59's direction but just throwing this out there to be informed. The 147 most definately has less recoil cause it is a true subsonic load. However, you'll be hard pressed in most cases to get your Glock 17/34 to run reliably without a recoil spring change, especially weak hand only. That goes for any reduced PF load, hovering just above 125 PF for that matter.
I went that 147 direction for quite a while with a reduced power spring but in the end opted to go 124 FMJ as it's more versitlle IMHO, you still have a ability to load moderately low recoiling rounds and go full power to even +P given the right powder. (I found that I liked the sight tracking much better in the 124 than the 147 which seems sluggish IMO)
The other benefit is 124g as opposed to 147g you shoot about 20% more as they are cheaper given the same supplier. IE MG 147g are $310 a case of 3000 delivered as opposed to MG 124g are $298 for a case of 3750 delivered (only $2 more if you go 124 JHP).
Either way your loading a better bullet than factory just depends on how much you want to save and what you truly need in a 9mm reloaded round.

MrVvrroomm
10-28-2010, 14:08
IE MG 147g are $310 a case of 3000 delivered as opposed to MG 124g are $298 for a case of 3750 delivered (only $2 more if you go 124 JHP). I'm on my third case of Montana Gold 124gr JHP's. It's a tremendous value if you order them in case lots.

shotgunred
10-28-2010, 14:18
2 k of PD 124 $140
http://precisiondelta.com

1 lb tight group 4.1 grs buy localy

2 k brass$40
http://leobrass.com/catalog/shopping_cart.php

Primers were ever you can get them.

Get to work!

PCJim
10-28-2010, 16:02
Shhhhhh..... (Grafs is currently advertising free hazmat on powder orders of 16# or more)

RustyFN
10-28-2010, 17:35
Powder and primers have to ship separately and there is the $24 hazmat fee.

Graf's, powder valley and wideners will ship them together, I do it all the time. In fact the only one I know of that doesn't is Midway.

OP, at least buy the powder and primers from the same place to save on the hazmat fee. If you want to save money I would recommend 8 pounds of powder and 10,000 primers in one order. In the Lee measure Titegroup, W231, Bullseye and WST will all meter very consistant. WST will be hard to find data for in 9mm but I think it shoots very accurate and clean. As for bullets I cast most of what I shoot but have used a lot of Zero bullets and am very happy with them. You can buy Zero bullets from Powder Valley and Rose Dist.

PCJim
10-28-2010, 19:22
GammaDriver, if you have a club you shoot with or if you know of other reloaders in your area, you might want to put together a mini group buy to help gain bulk discounts and further dilute the shipping costs.

What part of this GunShine state?

ron59
10-28-2010, 19:30
Loads of good info in this thread - thanks guys.

This 147 load interests me, care to share the powder and amount?

Currently I'm using 4.1gr of WSF @ 1.135" OAL. Gets 910fps out of my G17. That's 133PF, not a "gamer" load. I initially tried loading the 147gr light, and found out that they weren't accurate unless up around 130PF.

I was using Solo 1000 previously, and while I had great success with my first 8lb jug, I couldn't get the same velocities with the next jug. Apparently they're known to be very inconsistent from lot to lot. It is also fairly temperature sensitive. I think you can gain/lose something like 5PF from Winter to Summer? That's from 130PF in winter, to 125PF in summer, which is too close to borderline in IDPA. Don't think I'll be going with that again.

Next primer order I make, I'm going to order some Vihtavouri N320. This is a fairly expensive powder, but it will only increase the price per round slightly. I've read way too many good things to not try it.

If you Google around, you'll see lots of "pet" loads for 9mm.
Some suggest TiteGroup, while I've used it I wouldn't suggest it. Lots of people like Unique, but it has a reputation of being tough to meter. I know lots of Dillon people say that. Those are two that I might avoid.

WSF is pretty good, and I've heard NOTHING but good about the VN320, but the increased cost is a turnoff for some. If I can get *great* results from it, the slight extra cost doesn't concern me.

fredj338
10-28-2010, 22:56
Graf's, powder valley and wideners will ship them together, I do it all the time. In fact the only one I know of that doesn't is Midway.

OP, at least buy the powder and primers from the same place to save on the hazmat fee. If you want to save money I would recommend 8 pounds of powder and 10,000 primers in one order. In the Lee measure Titegroup, W231, Bullseye and WST will all meter very consistant. WST will be hard to find data for in 9mm but I think it shoots very accurate and clean. As for bullets I cast most of what I shoot but have used a lot of Zero bullets and am very happy with them. You can buy Zero bullets from Powder Valley and Rose Dist.

Good advivce, BUT, I would advise you NOT to buy 8# of any powder until you decide it is what you want to use. Buy 1#, work your laods up, if yo ulike it, great, now buy 4# or 8#. Nothing worse than 3# of powder you hate. Bullets too, would buy in 1K lots first, makes sure you like them before laying in 10K. Yes it will cost you more initially, but you will be money ahead if you hate the stuff you bought in bulk.:dunno: Primer, yep, definitely order at least 10K online to spread HM fees out. Buying small locally is fine for testing as long as tehy aren't hozing you. Around here, primers are still $40/K & powder @ $25/#. For that kind of change, I can order 10K primers & throw in a # or 2# of powder form Graf's & test away.

MrOldLude
10-29-2010, 11:54
I'd go for:
---Powder, primers, and bullets from Powder Valley, Inc. They do ship powder and primers together. I'd grab some Berry's plated bullets from them.
---Dies, midway. I think Lee products are on sale right now. And if not, there's always electronic coupons.

GammaDriver
10-29-2010, 16:39
GammaDriver, if you have a club you shoot with or if you know of other reloaders in your area, you might want to put together a mini group buy to help gain bulk discounts and further dilute the shipping costs.

What part of this GunShine state?

Gunshine State - lol! I love it. Between all the legal gunners and the gangstas down here it really probably ought to be called that.

That's a great idea, and I probably ought to follow up on it. I'm in south Florida, north of Fort Lauderdale.

But, no, I don't yet have a group to shoot with... in fact, my current work schedule has me working Friday, Saturday, Sunday and Mondays, so the typical days a competitive shoot or group might meet are out of my reach for now.

What that DOES get me, though, is mid-week day-time peace at the shooting range.

RustyFN
10-29-2010, 18:00
I would advise you NOT to buy 8# of any powder until you decide it is what you want to use.

Great point Fred. I also would only buy powder in quantity when I knew I had a powder I liked.

GammaDriver
10-29-2010, 19:08
Great point Fred. I also would only buy powder in quantity when I knew I had a powder I liked.

Yeah, this seems like wise information.

I don't know how expensive it is compared to other powders, but at the moment I'm thinking of Accurate Arms #5 for its reported versatility and ability to meter.

Question for ya - how many standard to slightly-low pressure 9mm rounds does a typical 8lb powder container reload?

I'm trying to do a calculation on a price for everything vs. store bought ammo, but that's where I kinda am at a loss for my calculation, lol. (I'm gonna be really impressed if someone has an exact number they got from one 8lb. container of any powder)

GioaJack
10-29-2010, 19:13
There's 7000 grains per pound. Just multiply 7000X8 then divide by the number of grains for each load... that will give you the number of rounds you can produce.


Jack

GammaDriver
10-29-2010, 19:28
There's 7000 grains per pound. Just multiply 7000X8 then divide by the number of grains for each load... that will give you the number of rounds you can produce.


Jack

Wow, good stuff! 'Round about 13,658 sound close? Holy cow - an 8lb. can is an INVESTMENT!

PCJim
10-29-2010, 21:50
Gamma, check out Bass Pro Shops in Dania, National Gun and Pantera in Miami, or Space Coast Bullets (also stocks Dillon equip) if up towards Melbourne. You can pick up a one pound can of powder and experiment.

fredj338
10-29-2010, 22:26
Wow, good stuff! 'Round about 13,658 sound close? Holy cow - an 8lb. can is an INVESTMENT!
That's why you better love it. It will take quite a while to shoot it up & the only thing that sucks more than not shooting is shooting ammo you don't like. Buy 1#, play w/ that (about 1200rds), if you like it, buy an 8#. It's gonna set you back like $4 more, small investment considering the cost of 8# jugs.:wow: