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Honor Bound
10-30-2010, 06:55
I own and shoot an array of popular automatics but my latest acquisition is my first 1911, so Iím still new with this frame.

In a recent article by Clint Smith the well known firearms instructor describes the correct way to hold a 1911. He specifically said that the left thumb should be sitting up on top of the safety as to ensure nothing would cause it to slip up and on during firing.

ďWell that sounds like it makes sense,Ē I said to myselfÖ and then I tried itÖ. Hold the phone!

Now thatís not how Iím used to shooting. I quickly noticed by moving my thumb up on top of the safety, I lose the palm and thumb meld that Iím accustom to and have used all my life. I have big hands and I like having as much palm and finger surface in contact with the frame and each other as possible. By putting my thump on top of the safety I definitely feel Iíd be loosing contact and thus, some control of the pistol.

I havenít been able to try this ďthumb over the safetyĒ grip at the range, hope to go tomorrow and try it out.

Clint wouldn't have said it if it weren't true. I also feel that a good, comfortable grip is one of the most important aspects of shooting, but who am I to disagree with Clint.

Your thoughts?

HB

davidalyn
10-30-2010, 07:11
I have been shooting my 1911s that way for over 20 years. I couldn't go back to thumb under the safety if I wanted to.

The theory is thumb on top of safety removes the possibility of accidentally bumping the safety up (on) during recoil.

drc767
10-30-2010, 07:13
If you are a right handed shooter, it should be your right thumb over the thumb safety. Obviously the left thumb would not work......

Honor Bound
10-30-2010, 07:23
If you are a right handed shooter, it should be your right thumb over the thumb safety. Obviously the left thumb would not work......

Yes, left side, right thumb. Thanks.

BuckyP
10-30-2010, 07:24
If you are a right handed shooter, it should be your right thumb over the thumb safety. Obviously the left thumb would not work......

If you are a left handed shooter, you are likely to have an Ambi safety, so it would work.

BuckyP
10-30-2010, 07:33
Now thatís not how Iím used to shooting. I quickly noticed by moving my thumb up on top of the safety, I lose the palm and thumb meld that Iím accustom to and have used all my life. I have big hands and I like having as much palm and finger surface in contact with the frame and each other as possible. By putting my thump on top of the safety I definitely feel Iíd be loosing contact and thus, some control of the pistol.

HB

It's not just the thumb riding the safety, but adapting the thumbs forward grip as well. In addition to keeping the safety downward, it gets you higher on the gun which helps control recoil. To get a better picture of this, check out Rob Leatham's (http://www.robleatham.com/) web site (middle picture).

lawdog734
10-30-2010, 07:33
In the end use what works for you

cowboywannabe
10-30-2010, 07:36
there are a few ways to hold a handgun, even a 1911. you will have to try them to see what works best for YOU.

PlasticGuy
10-30-2010, 07:50
The thumb on the safety hold is my preferred way to hold a 1911. It removes any possibility of forgetting to click it off safe, and also removes any possibility of accidentally bumping it back on safe while shooting. It also forces the hand higher on the grip to reduce muzzle rise during recoil. If there's a downside, I haven't found it yet.

And yes, Clint Smith is a squared away dude. I took his Urban Rifle class a few years ago. It was a fantastic class at a fantastic facility taught by fantastic instructors. I can highly recommend it.

seanmac45
10-30-2010, 08:13
Thumb on the safety is the best way to shoot a 1911.

If you can't adapt to it that's fine, but just know that there is the chance of bumping the safety up during recovery from recoil.

ArmoryDoc
10-30-2010, 08:36
Not everybodys hands are built the same. I use "thumbs forward" with right thumb on the safety.

bac1023
10-30-2010, 08:46
In the end use what works for you

This :)

deadite
10-30-2010, 09:21
I can't shoot straight with my thumb on the safety for some reason, so I shoot my way. :)

deadite

ArmoryDoc
10-30-2010, 09:23
Whatever gets it downrange. ;)

knedrgr
10-30-2010, 09:27
If you have a Beavertail grip safety, then it will help you to get your hand higher on the gun, thus making it easier for the thumb-over-safety grip.

But if you have a standard GI grip safety, then it reduce the mobility of getting your hand higher on the gun. So it may not feel as comfortable.

pistolwrench
10-30-2010, 10:14
Clint also enthusiastically endorsed the Taurus PT1911.

Quack
10-30-2010, 10:25
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1276196

seanmac45
10-30-2010, 10:34
Clint also enthusiastically endorsed the Taurus PT1911.


Really?!?!?!?!?!
:wow:

brisk21
10-30-2010, 11:05
Try to keep you thumb on the side of the safety, not above or below it. It works well for me.

Herb Twoleaf
10-30-2010, 14:18
Clint also enthusiastically endorsed the Taurus PT1911.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh82/stagar15/RidgeRouteCA.jpg


Really?!?!?!?!?!
:wow:


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

samuse
10-30-2010, 14:35
I can't shoot straight with my thumb on the safety for some reason, so I shoot my way. :)

deadite


Me too.

You don't have to have a white knuckle death chicken choke hold on the gun to shoot it. It's not a bazooka, it's just a handgun.

rsxr22
10-30-2010, 14:41
high thumbs forward grip in my eyes is the only acceptable way to hold a semi-auto pistol and the only way i teach students to shoot. Obviously, revolvers are a bit different.

pistolwrench
10-30-2010, 15:00
Clint also enthusiastically endorsed the Taurus PT1911.

It may have been related to the $$$ Taurus spent on advertising in that issue of American Handgunner.
Coincidentally, the last issue I bought.

Quack
10-30-2010, 15:02
It may have been related to the $$$ Taurus spent on advertising in that issue of American Handgunner.
Coincidentally, the last issue I bought.

http://cousinavi.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/fonzie.jpg

pistolwrench
10-30-2010, 15:14
Smith, Clint "Too Tough Taurus",American Handgunner, November/December 2007, p.52-55; 84.
In the article he related how the pistol originally shot 6" off of vertical point of aim/point of impact. Within 2000rds. 'something' wore in and it self-corrected!
:upeyes:

Found it:

Source: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_190_31/ai_n27380932/pg_2/?tag=content;col1

Clint Smith wrote:
"The only thing weird was the pistol seemed to shoot low when it was new, like in 6" low. But after the first 1.500 rounds it settled right in to point of aim/point of impact out to a solid 25 yards. Something seated or a bit of magic occurred, I guess."

Quack
10-30-2010, 15:20
Smith, Clint "Too Tough Taurus",American Handgunner, November/December 2007, p.52-55; 84.
In the article he related how the pistol originally shot 6" off of vertical point of aim/point of impact. Within 2000rds. 'something' wore in and it self-corrected!
:upeyes:

i guess the barrel needed a break-in like long range precision rifles :whistling:

pistolwrench
10-30-2010, 15:31
Or he had a 'Spechul Anamalous Inexplicable Experience'....................

This stuff happens all the time at Benny Hinn performances and at Lourdes, France.

silversport
10-31-2010, 06:49
high thumbs forward grip in my eyes is the only acceptable way to hold a semi-auto pistol and the only way i teach students to shoot. Obviously, revolvers are a bit different.

no disrespect but how does a Southpaw do this without futzing up the pistol's slide cycle???...just a thought from a left handed shooter who has tried this but it doesn't seem to work consistently...at least not with my 1911s (I've had less issue with SiG and Glock or "traditional double action" pistols...

...you lost me at "only acceptable way..."...there is no "only"...just what is popular right now...I have seen the one handed "Camp Perry", FBI Crouch, Isoceles, Modified Weaver...I wonder what will be next...
Bill

rsxr22
10-31-2010, 09:28
no disrespect but how does a Southpaw do this without futzing up the pistol's slide cycle???...just a thought from a left handed shooter who has tried this but it doesn't seem to work consistently...at least not with my 1911s (I've had less issue with SiG and Glock or "traditional double action" pistols...

...you lost me at "only acceptable way..."...there is no "only"...just what is popular right now...I have seen the one handed "Camp Perry", FBI Crouch, Isoceles, Modified Weaver...I wonder what will be next...
Bill

Im not sure about what you are talking about? I am a right handed shooter but also shoot freestyle left handed a lot to be proficient both ways. I shoot the same way as i do freestyle in my strong hand. And besides the Perry, your talking shooting positions not grips. The reason other grips were popular for awhile is because a lot of instructors were taught on revolvers, which you need to grip, thumb over thumb and then they transferred the grip to semi-autos. Thumbs forward isnt a fad and its not going to be going anywhere as long as semi-autos exist. It is the only way to shoot for maximum felt recoil control. I understand other people shoot different ways. However if they gave the grip a chance and got comfortable with it they would see it is the only grip to have complete 360 degree contact and the high thumbs is getting you closer to the bore axis which will reduce the muzzle flip. Read up on stuff from Bill Rogers, he talks about the scientific aspect of the grip. I probably should know more than i know about the grip considering i instruct it but science was never my strong suite in school LOL

knedrgr
10-31-2010, 11:30
no disrespect but how does a Southpaw do this without futzing up the pistol's slide cycle???...just a thought from a left handed shooter who has tried this but it doesn't seem to work consistently...at least not with my 1911s (I've had less issue with SiG and Glock or "traditional double action" pistols...


I'm a southpaw shooter, and i don't have a problem with that. My two of my 1911's have ambi thumb safeties. While one of my other one has a standard safety (waiting for ambi grips to come in so I can add the ambi safeties). Regardless, I've taken that 1911 out and haven't had a hickup with it. Without a right-sided thumb safety, my left-hand's thumb didn't rub against the slide.

deadite
10-31-2010, 11:54
You need to factor in an individual's hand anatomy, as well. I, for one, have short thumbs, so holding the 1911 with my thumb on the safety simply doesn't work.

Honestly, my only problem with not laying the thumb on the safety is that I sometimes/ rarely forget to disengage the safety before attempting to shoot at the range.

deadite

rsxr22
10-31-2010, 13:57
Trick is to disengage on the draw.

Deadite, Could you take a picture of your shooting grip and then one of you attempting to hold thumb over safety? Im not calling you a liar and i can understand where your coming from, but i have medium sized hands at best and my GF's are significantly smaller and she uses the same shooting grip as I

deadite
10-31-2010, 15:00
Trick is to disengage on the draw.

Deadite, Could you take a picture of your shooting grip and then one of you attempting to hold thumb over safety? Im not calling you a liar and i can understand where your coming from, but i have medium sized hands at best and my GF's are significantly smaller and she uses the same shooting grip as I

Don't get me wrong. It's probably a great way to shoot for most people. It just doesn't work for me, personally, and seeing as I shoot fairly well my way, I'll just stick with my method that works. I appreciate the advice, though.

I don't have a shot of me holding a 1911, but maybe these shots will shed some light on my thumbs. Ha! It's not that they're short, exactly. It's that they bend in an odd way. Family trait on my dad's side.

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/P5040027.jpg

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/P5040013.jpg

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/P5040030.jpg

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/HB1.jpg

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/P9120022.jpg

The pics are of my left thumb, but I'm right-handed. They look exactly alike, though. The pic of my hand modeling clay is probably the most indicative of the angle of my thumb joint.

This reminds me of the thread about Quack's trigger finger and why he likes the flat triggers. I believe he posted a shot of his finger hitting the trigger at an odd angle and that explained why the flat trigger works best for him.

deadite

Quack
10-31-2010, 15:19
This reminds me of the thread about Quack's trigger finger and why he like the flat triggers. I believe he posted a shot of his finger hitting the trigger at an odd angle and that explained why the flat trigger works best for him.

deadite

yeppers...

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1276249

BTW, that is a small thumb...This reminds me of this:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h51/FHFJIGSAW/preview_320_260_1.jpg

deadite
10-31-2010, 18:10
yeppers...

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1276249

BTW, that is a small thumb...This reminds me of this:

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h51/FHFJIGSAW/preview_320_260_1.jpg

Ha!! We were just talking about that commercial last night!

deadite

rsxr22
10-31-2010, 18:29
Thanks for posting. You do indeed have some strange thumbs sir! No disrespect of course

deadite
10-31-2010, 18:40
Thanks for posting. You do indeed have some strange thumbs sir! No disrespect of course

Yeah, no luck hitch-hiking, either. :whistling:

deadite

pistolwrench
10-31-2010, 19:07
Did you live in the vincinity of a nuclear power plant?
:wow:
Just kidding!

Is that statue your work? If so, WOW!!!!
What gat is that gentleman totin'? Colt 38 Pocket Pistol?

silversport
10-31-2010, 21:14
Im not sure about what you are talking about? I am a right handed shooter but also shoot freestyle left handed a lot to be proficient both ways. I shoot the same way as i do freestyle in my strong hand. And besides the Perry, your talking shooting positions not grips. The reason other grips were popular for awhile is because a lot of instructors were taught on revolvers, which you need to grip, thumb over thumb and then they transferred the grip to semi-autos. Thumbs forward isnt a fad and its not going to be going anywhere as long as semi-autos exist. It is the only way to shoot for maximum felt recoil control. I understand other people shoot different ways. However if they gave the grip a chance and got comfortable with it they would see it is the only grip to have complete 360 degree contact and the high thumbs is getting you closer to the bore axis which will reduce the muzzle flip. Read up on stuff from Bill Rogers, he talks about the scientific aspect of the grip. I probably should know more than i know about the grip considering i instruct it but science was never my strong suite in school LOL

if you say so...my point was that every once in awhile something new comes along and then IT is the only way to shoot...and my experience has taught me that there is no ONE way to shoot...I'm glad it works for you and perhaps because I have bigger hands and long thumbs it just doesn't work with semi autos for me...

Bill

rsxr22
10-31-2010, 21:21
if you say so...my point was that every once in awhile something new comes along and then IT is the only way to shoot...and my experience has taught me that there is no ONE way to shoot...I'm glad it works for you and perhaps because I have bigger hands and long thumbs it just doesn't work with semi autos for me...

Bill

One with longer hands and thumbs would even have better control over the pistol then I with medium sized hands because you would be contacting even more of the frame. There are a few guns that I cannot use because of my shooting grip, but instead of trying to modify it to fit a gun, I just stick with ones I know work. A good example is HK, i love their weapons and think their great guns, but they dont work for me. Their extended controls get in the way of my grip and the gun fails to reach slide lock

silversport
11-01-2010, 05:33
except the thumbs for some Southpaw's will get in the way of the slide...ejection port...
Bill

deadite
11-01-2010, 09:35
Did you live in the vincinity of a nuclear power plant?
:wow:
Just kidding!

Is that statue your work? If so, WOW!!!!
What gat is that gentleman totin'? Colt 38 Pocket Pistol?

:rofl::rofl: No, just under power lines. ;)

Thanks on the compliment. I'm a sculptor. You nailed the revolver. It wasn't finished yet. Here's the finished bronze without the base:

http://i429.photobucket.com/albums/qq15/deadite_photos/HardBoiledShadow.jpg


deadite

deadite
11-01-2010, 09:39
Another problem that I have with thumbs forward is that my left hand, support hand thumb gets in the way of my trigger finger. I know that I should be using only the pad of my trigger finger to pull the trigger,but a little of my finger tip sticks out and touches.

Instead of learning a totally new grip with my freaky thumbs, I'll just stick with one that works already. :)

deadite

Quack
11-01-2010, 10:56
Nice work!!!

deadite
11-01-2010, 13:07
Nice work!!!

Thanks, Quack!

deadite

glock2740
11-01-2010, 13:51
In the end use what works for you

there are a few ways to hold a handgun, even a 1911. you will have to try them to see what works best for YOU.
Double ditto.

bladeandbarrel
11-13-2010, 21:40
Clint also enthusiastically endorsed the Taurus PT1911.

Clint probably got a few for "T&E" aka Brazilian Christmas

woodrowNC
11-13-2010, 21:59
I can't shoot straight with my thumb on the safety for some reason, so I shoot my way. :)

deadite

me neither. i shoot thumbs forward, thumb below the safety. went thumbs forward a few yrs ago and that was easy. but everything else is the way my old man taught me 30 yrs ago. ain't changing now.