.45 caliber 230 gr. Hydra-Shok [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Jim in Illinois
11-01-2010, 03:58
Gentlemen

My son bought me a box of 230gr. Hydra-Shoks for my birthday. Do any of you guys use these in your G21s or G21sfs? Are they reliable? I'd like to fire a few boxes through my G21SF but there so expensive! Why is personal defense ammunition so costly? Is the Hydra-Shok a proven design? My G21SF feeds Remington 230gr. hollow-points with no problems. Should there be a difference? Thanks, Jim...

jbotstein1
11-01-2010, 04:23
I use them in my G30 and G21SF. I haven't fired many for the cost reason you mentioned, but they function fine and are what I keep loaded in my 2 pistols.

boyscout399
11-01-2010, 04:27
I use them in my HK45 with no troubles. With Glock's legendary reliability I wouldn't expect trouble with any SAAMI specced .45ACP factory loaded ammunition.

Sonnytoo
11-01-2010, 05:41
Hydra-Shoks are a sort of self-defense standard. They've been around for many yrs now, and I believe are one of the "original" successful bullets used that obtains good expansion in tissue. I have many Hydra-Shoks here in house and use them in various calibers, including .45 ACP, for carry use.
That's a fine cartridge. Remington Golden Sabre ammunition is also a proven design and most people speak well of that also.
Many of us on the forum, men and women, ensure that our guns function reliably with this type of "expensive" ammunition, and then just purchase more economical ammo from WalMart or our local gun store to use at the firing range. We carry the expensive stuff in our self-defense weapons when we "go to town."
Your son got you a very nice birthday gift.
Sonnytoo

jhands
11-01-2010, 05:46
Good stuff. Shouldnt be an issue out of your glock. My 30 feeds it fine although after seeing the difference between hydra shok and hst in testing I switched to hst.

walkin' trails
11-01-2010, 05:48
My employer issues that round and it works as reliably as anything thru G21s, G30s, Sig P220s, and S&W M&P 45s. Its been out for a long time.

fmfdocglock
11-01-2010, 06:00
I carry them in my G30.

Edmo01
11-01-2010, 07:11
Gentlemen

My son bought me a box of 230gr. Hydra-Shoks for my birthday. Do any of you guys use these in your G21s or G21sfs? Are they reliable? I'd like to fire a few boxes through my G21SF but there so expensive! Why is personal defense ammunition so costly? Is the Hydra-Shok a proven design? My G21SF feeds Remington 230gr. hollow-points with no problems. Should there be a difference? Thanks, Jim...

Hydra Shok bullets have been around for 15+ years (can't remember exactly when they came out) and have proven themselves during defensive shootings. The only way to determine if your Glock will function with them is to try some in your pistol. I bet it will eat 'em up just fine. Once you run a few through your pistol, you will have the piece of mind it will function when asked to and these bullets will perform as well as any others out there.

Why is self defense ammo so expensive? Because we shooters accept the extra price and keep buying it. Additionally, with more people carrying defensive pistols, the demand has skyrocketed making this a lucrative market for the ammo makers. The ammo manufacturers understand this and have given us better and better bullet designs, purpose built for self defense. Then they market them to us with "ours is better" or "you will not be fully protected unless you use our ammo" advertisement programs which obviously have been successful.

Which is the best ammo for self defense? That is like asking a group of guys which motor oil is the best. I've never torn a motor down after 100,000 miles to compare wear items, but I'll sure tell you which oil is best. The funny thing is most of us have never had to shoot anyone and then compare bullet results. However, you will see many post on which bullet is best.

Hydra Shoks have proven themselves in actual shootings so you are well armed. Remember, shot placement is everything. Center of mass hits with a full metal jacketed round will out perform a miss with the best self defense ammo any day.

Edmo

Agent6-3/8
11-01-2010, 08:09
Hydra-Shok's are a proven design thats been around for years. Before you carry them however, I would recommend you buy a couple more boxes and shoot them through your gun just to make sure they will function and you can get a feel for how they shoot.

Dingus
11-01-2010, 08:24
1. more expensive nickel plated casings
2. more expensive premium powders
3. far more expensive bullets due to the intricate design
4. increased advertising and marketing expense

BOGE
11-01-2010, 09:04
Hydra Shok was a gimmick in its time as well as now. It`s antiquated technology that never really worked.

http://i368.photobucket.com/albums/oo129/Boge_1960/100072687-1-l.jpg

Wriggly
11-01-2010, 09:45
Hydra Shok bullets have been around for 15+ years (can't remember exactly when they came out) and have proven themselves during defensive shootings. The only way to determine if your Glock will function with them is to try some in your pistol. I bet it will eat 'em up just fine. Once you run a few through your pistol, you will have the piece of mind it will function when asked to and these bullets will perform as well as any others out there.

Why is self defense ammo so expensive? Because we shooters accept the extra price and keep buying it. Additionally, with more people carrying defensive pistols, the demand has skyrocketed making this a lucrative market for the ammo makers. The ammo manufacturers understand this and have given us better and better bullet designs, purpose built for self defense. Then they market them to us with "ours is better" or "you will not be fully protected unless you use our ammo" advertisement programs which obviously have been successful.

Which is the best ammo for self defense? That is like asking a group of guys which motor oil is the best. I've never torn a motor down after 100,000 miles to compare wear items, but I'll sure tell you which oil is best. The funny thing is most of us have never had to shoot anyone and then compare bullet results. However, you will see many post on which bullet is best.

Hydra Shoks have proven themselves in actual shootings so you are well armed. Remember, shot placement is everything. Center of mass hits with a full metal jacketed round will out perform a miss with the best self defense ammo any day.

Edmo

One of the best posts I have seen on any forum, bar none. :thumbsup:

AA#5
11-01-2010, 09:52
They've always functioned perfectly in my 6 Glocks & Sig P220.

GunFighter45ACP
11-01-2010, 10:47
They are my 'go to' in 45acp for reliability. I don't think I've ever had a jam, misfeed, etc ever in any of my 45acp pistols when using this stuff. As far as SD ammo goes, yes they are a little outdated & still cost a few $$ more than target ammo, but at the end of the day, you get what you pay for, + like it or not, this load has a proven track record of getting the job done when used.

CrackerKen
11-01-2010, 11:02
I ran a box of these through my G30SF. No problems at all. Presently, I'm carrying Winchester PDX-1 230 gr JHP. I've had Hydra-Shok in other calibers too, with no problems.

SHOOTR13
11-01-2010, 11:19
+1...I've put two boxes through my G30SF with 100% reliability.

As a matter of fact, I've built up quite a collection of premium self defense ammo over the years...mostly 45 caliber...as that is what most of my firearm collection chambers.

Super Vel
Flying Ashtrays
Hydra Shoks
Black Talons
Cor Bon
Glasers
Mag Safe
Starfire
Golden Sabre
Gold Dots
Critical Defense

...to name a few !

Glolt20-91
11-01-2010, 12:28
[QUOTE=BOGE;16230648]Hydra Shok was a gimmick in its time as well as now. It`s antiquated technology that never really worked.

We agree! :supergrin:

Of 2 shootings I personally know of, neither 230gr Hydrashok expanded, one fired from a SIG 220 was a thru and thru into a store cinderblock wall. I was given some Hydrashoks for testing, I'm not impressed. Heads-up and I'll pick Win PDX (my go to town carry) or Gold Dots, but I haven't tested Barnes' 185gr XPB yet and expect that bullet would make my short list.

Just my $.02 and YMMV.

Bob :cowboy:

jsdintexas
11-01-2010, 12:40
Here's some of my thoughts:
- I think everyone has an opinion about which round does the job - use the one you are confident in, and notice how many votes for all the ones mentioned in the thread. They are all good.
- I have shot Hydro, Speer GD LE and plain GD, Win PDX and SXT and Silvertip, and so on in .40, .45, and 10mm.
- I use Win Silvertip in 10mm for hunting with my G20.
- Only difference I noticed was in Speer GD LE, which was a noticeably bigger bang. I mean I did notice a difference in the bang and recoil.
- A LEO friend uses Hydro on the street cause he says the post helps go through cars (and that is what the post is for - to keep the channel clear for expansion when going through clothing). In fact his partner has mags with ball and JHP for going through various barriers. Car-Bon Power Ball is the same principle.
- I don't think it matters too much in .45 JHP because it's going to make a big hole. I went through the biggest and baddest to find that perfect ammo, but after a while realized that most LEO carry .40 and get the job done.
- My preference is Win SXT 230gr in .45 because of the expansion qualities and Speer also performs well with similar expansion, Hydro comes right in there. I did a lot of research (FBI Reports and others). This is where I got my info.
- Your Hydro is good stuff, enjoy, but I would suggest Win white box or Federal from Walmart for plinking since it is costly.

OK, bring on the debate. :supergrin:

SARDG
11-01-2010, 17:31
As many have said, Hydra-Shok is older technology. I believe I remember reading that expansion in soft tissue is less than the more modern rounds. I keep them in my G30 SD (bedside) gun and have shot them out of my G21 and G36 without problems. But the reason I use them, is because I HAVE them - LE boxes of 50, which is a far more economical way to purchase these and any quality SD ammo.

I likely won't buy any more when my current stock is exhausted. You can go here: http://le.atk.com/ and view Wound Ballistic Documents and Videos for Federal and Speer. It may help you make some decisions.

proguide
11-01-2010, 18:25
That's my Department issued round. 1600 of us in my Dept, thousands of rounds through the 21sf. No problems.

Q400
11-02-2010, 00:08
A LEO friend uses Hydro on the street cause he says the post helps go through cars (and that is what the post is for - to keep the channel clear for expansion when going through clothing). In fact his partner has mags with ball and JHP for going through various barriers. Car-Bon Power Ball is the same principle.


F.W.I.W. I think that you will find that the Cor-Bon Pow'r ball is the same bullet that Winchester uses in its Expanding full metal jacket round (EFMJ), designed to start expanding on impact.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=401

EddieM
11-02-2010, 08:02
All of the high priced over hyped ammo does exactly what it was intended to do, and that is to cause people to part with their money. Does anyone believe it cost four times as much to produce a jhp bullet over a fmj. No one can say a high priced super duper jhp bullet will do any better or worse than any other bullet in every situation. Best carry ammo is what works reliably and is accurate in your gun.

BOGE
11-02-2010, 09:15
F.W.I.W. I think that you will find that the Cor-Bon Pow'r ball is the same bullet that Winchester uses in its Expanding full metal jacket round (EFMJ), designed to start expanding on impact.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/handgun.aspx?id=401

1. FEDERAL makes the EFMJ, not Winchester.

2. No, they are entirely different designs.

Q400
11-02-2010, 09:53
1. FEDERAL makes the EFMJ, not Winchester

Right web sight wrong manufacture.

Fiery Red XIII
11-02-2010, 09:57
All of the high priced over hyped ammo does exactly what it was intended to do, and that is to cause people to part with their money. Does anyone believe it cost four times as much to produce a jhp bullet over a fmj. No one can say a high priced super duper jhp bullet will do any better or worse than any other bullet in every situation. Best carry ammo is what works reliably and is accurate in your gun.

Except that some use special (usually low-flash) powders, some nickel-plate their casings, some load hotter/faster/heavier rounds (requiring more materials), not to mention R&D for new designs.


Red

EddieM
11-02-2010, 11:37
Except that some use special (usually low-flash) powders, some nickel-plate their casings, some load hotter/faster/heavier rounds (requiring more materials), not to mention R&D for new designs.


Red
And after it all said and done you will not be able to tell us that any given round will work better than any other in a defensive situation.

NonPCnraRN
11-02-2010, 19:57
And after it all said and done you will not be able to tell us that any given round will work better than any other in a defensive situation.

That is why I feel that manufacturers bypassed a good design when trying to improve ball ammo. If you just use a WFN of the original weight the firearm was designed to use you would have an inexpensive round that penetrates in a straight line and creates a much larger wound than round nose, and already has a wide flat nose so it doesn't have to expand. If you are worried about penetration then use less powder and a lighter bullet so it won't penetrate as deep. If you want more penetration, increase the powder charge and bullet weight. Large meplat WFN solid bullets are the least understood designs out there. A 44 cal WFN with a meplat the same diameter as a 45 cal WFN will create the same diameter wound if both bullets are the same velocity. It is meplat size not caliber that determines wound diameter when dealing with flat nosed bullets. You can actually control penetration by maximizing meplat size and decreasing bullet weight and or velocity. There are other designs that are more aerodynamic at longer ranges but for SD that is not an issue. Ironically the first commercial loading I have seen using such a design is the Double Tap 200 gr and 230 gr 40cal/10mm WFNGC ammo. This is a pure WFN design with a meplat that at .32 inches is 80% of caliber. I am not aware of any nonexpanding 45 ACP ammo that has a meplat that large. If I am wrong let me know as I will be purchasing some of that ammo for my 45. A 45 cal bullet will need a meplat of .36 inches to equal the same 80% meplat to caliber ratio. DT and BB make RNFPs, SWCs and truncated cone loadings but none have a .36 inch meplat. In fact the meplat of my DT 40 S&W 200 gr WFNGC ammo is larger than either the Penn 230 gr 45 cal truncated cone bullets or the BB 230 fmj-fp ammo. So even though it is a smaller caliber the larger meplat of the DT ammo will create larger wounds than the .45 truncated cone bullets. DT also sells the bullets so I can load my own if so inclined. I would also like to see some Gel testing done with these bullets to compare them head to head with ball and hollowpoint ammo. If your weapon will feed a WFN bullet give them a try. You might be surprised.

fredj338
11-02-2010, 20:37
Hydra Shok bullets have been around for 15+ years (can't remember exactly when they came out) and have proven themselves during defensive shootings. The only way to determine if your Glock will function with them is to try some in your pistol. I bet it will eat 'em up just fine. Once you run a few through your pistol, you will have the piece of mind it will function when asked to and these bullets will perform as well as any others out there.
Edmo
Actually, quite a bit longer than that. WHile they are old technology, they have a very good track record. Several of the local LEA around here have used them in their day & had great results, so gimmicky or not, they do work. The only way to know if they'll run in your gunn is fire a couple mags & see. That is the only sure way. Are there better rounds today? Sure & cheaper too. I would not buy new but if I was sitting on several 100, I wouldn't throw them away, especially in 45acp.:supergrin:

Ak.Hiker
11-03-2010, 08:53
That is why I feel that manufacturers bypassed a good design when trying to improve ball ammo. If you just use a WFN of the original weight the firearm was designed to use you would have an inexpensive round that penetrates in a straight line and creates a much larger wound than round nose, and already has a wide flat nose so it doesn't have to expand. If you are worried about penetration then use less powder and a lighter bullet so it won't penetrate as deep. If you want more penetration, increase the powder charge and bullet weight. Large meplat WFN solid bullets are the least understood designs out there. A 44 cal WFN with a meplat the same diameter as a 45 cal WFN will create the same diameter wound if both bullets are the same velocity. It is meplat size not caliber that determines wound diameter when dealing with flat nosed bullets. You can actually control penetration by maximizing meplat size and decreasing bullet weight and or velocity. There are other designs that are more aerodynamic at longer ranges but for SD that is not an issue. Ironically the first commercial loading I have seen using such a design is the Double Tap 200 gr and 230 gr 40cal/10mm WFNGC ammo. This is a pure WFN design with a meplat that at .32 inches is 80% of caliber. I am not aware of any nonexpanding 45 ACP ammo that has a meplat that large. If I am wrong let me know as I will be purchasing some of that ammo for my 45. A 45 cal bullet will need a meplat of .36 inches to equal the same 80% meplat to caliber ratio. DT and BB make RNFPs, SWCs and truncated cone loadings but none have a .36 inch meplat. In fact the meplat of my DT 40 S&W 200 gr WFNGC ammo is larger than either the Penn 230 gr 45 cal truncated cone bullets or the BB 230 fmj-fp ammo. So even though it is a smaller caliber the larger meplat of the DT ammo will create larger wounds than the .45 truncated cone bullets. DT also sells the bullets so I can load my own if so inclined. I would also like to see some Gel testing done with these bullets to compare them head to head with ball and hollowpoint ammo. If your weapon will feed a WFN bullet give them a try. You might be surprised.

It would take a lot of gel to stop a 200 grain DT WFNGC bullet. They will go through about 7 inches of spruce.

Ak.Hiker
11-03-2010, 08:56
The 230 grain 45 acp Hydra-Shok is a proven design that has been perfected over the years. They feed smooth in my Glock.

BOGE
11-03-2010, 09:27
The 230 grain 45 acp Hydra-Shok is a proven design that has been perfected over the years. They feed smooth in my Glock.

Hmmmm. :whistling:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Federal_230%20gr%20Hydrashok-Failure%20to%20Expand.htm

G31
11-03-2010, 14:05
Ak.Hiker, I think we should start using spruce to test bullets. It's cheaper than gel, doesn't require calibration, and won't give people the false impression that it simulates human tissue.

Zombie Steve
11-03-2010, 22:46
I love reading articles where guys nitch and bag about bullet failure as they examine the bullet they pulled out of a dead animal.

Ak.Hiker
11-03-2010, 22:54
Ak.Hiker, I think we should start using spruce to test bullets. It's cheaper than gel, doesn't require calibration, and won't give people the false impression that it simulates human tissue.

I could care less how it compares to human flesh. I test out non expanding loads in spruce just to give myself an idea how the different loads I like to carry compare to one another. An example is the 300 grain Winchester FP in 454 will go through two 6 inch logs back to back. I have never seen any 44 Magnum load even hot 320 grain cast loads have penetration like the 454. That 200 grain DT 10mm cast load has penetration similar to a good 180 grain cast 357 Magnum load and makes a bigger hole going out. Not bad for a semi auto.

Ak.Hiker
11-03-2010, 23:00
Hmmmm. :whistling:

http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Federal_230%20gr%20Hydrashok-Failure%20to%20Expand.htm

You should send the info to ATK. I doubt they realise that the Hydra-Shok is such a poor design.

BOGE
11-04-2010, 08:48
You should send the info to ATK. I doubt they realise that the Hydra-Shok is such a poor design.

They already know.

Ak.Hiker
11-04-2010, 09:01
They already know.

But they still sell it. The last time I was in my favorite cop shop they had new boxes of 50 right next to the HST. I think the price was the same as well. I wonder if any police departments still carry it?

chewybaca67
11-04-2010, 10:56
I keep 'em in my XD 45 and ran another 50 round box through that XD and a Springfield 1911 and they ran fine. Seems that most quality 45 acp hp ammo will do the job well-to-very well.
I remember a few years ago a guy here on GT accidentally shot himself in the leg, through his thigh, penetrated all the way through to his calf, and out. He posted pics and from the photos, the hydra shoks he use worked as designed. He didn't hit any bone and he may have lost his foot as it was so swelled up no blood was circulating through.
Anybody else remember that guy?

NonPCnraRN
11-04-2010, 11:22
I could care less how it compares to human flesh. I test out non expanding loads in spruce just to give myself an idea how the different loads I like to carry compare to one another. An example is the 300 grain Winchester FP in 454 will go through two 6 inch logs back to back. I have never seen any 44 Magnum load even hot 320 grain cast loads have penetration like the 454. That 200 grain DT 10mm cast load has penetration similar to a good 180 grain cast 357 Magnum load and makes a bigger hole going out. Not bad for a semi auto.

Check out the Linebaugh seminar test results. Bullets are fired into wet newsprint and large bovine leg bones. It isn't human tissue either but it does give a good comparison of how one bullet does compared to another. Of course these guys think 50" of penetration is a good load. A lot of the bullets could almost be reloaded except for the rifling marks. So I think your spruce test has merit if you want to see if one bullet will do better against a grizzly skull vs another. I would hazard that a spruce pole is more close in consistency to a large carnivor's bone structure than gel. Another test is to smack the bullet with a sledge hammer to see if it shatters or just flattens. Some of these bullets have killed a cape buff hidden behind a buff that was the original target. So if a spruce pole measures what you want in a bullet....go for it.

BOGE
11-04-2010, 11:58
I keep 'em in my XD 45 and ran another 50 round box through that XD and a Springfield 1911 and they ran fine. Seems that most quality 45 acp hp ammo will do the job well-to-very well.
I remember a few years ago a guy here on GT accidentally shot himself in the leg, through his thigh, penetrated all the way through to his calf, and out. He posted pics and from the photos, the hydra shoks he use worked as designed. He didn't hit any bone and he may have lost his foot as it was so swelled up no blood was circulating through.
Anybody else remember that guy?

I remember that. There were gruesome photos if I recall.

chewybaca67
11-04-2010, 12:31
I remember that. There were gruesome photos if I recall.

I hope he healed up well.

CrackerKen
11-04-2010, 16:07
I guess this all boils down to whether someone who gets shot in self defense is dead, deader yet, very dead, or extremely dead. I don't shoot spruce poles, several thicknesses of boards, buffalo, bears, etc. I shoot paper targets to practice and be proficient if I ever (God forbid) have to shoot a human. I have personally seen people dead from gunshots from everything from a .22 up to a 30.06, to include .32 and .380. Plain, old fashioned .45ACP 230 gr hardball is a proven man stopper. I'm not going to get into a debate on chronometer testing, proven expansion or anything else. I'm just using common sense and life knowledge.

The OP asked if the .45ACP 230 grn Hydra-Shok was good stuff, and it is. I think he got a nice present.

As argued, there may be better (Win Ranger T, Win PDX-1, or whatever), but the Hydra-Shok will do an adequate job as a SD round.

It's like people who condemns a lowly .380 round as being totally useless, yet those same people will not volunteer to get shot with one.

tc2129
11-07-2010, 16:59
I've used .45 Hydrashocks in my XD and they work well. Accurate and never had a malfunction with them. I still have a few boxes in an ammo can.
I also use Gold Dots, Golden Sabers, and Rangers as well.
I'd feel fine using them as a self defense load.

G31
11-07-2010, 18:24
Was a sarcastic post, Ak.Hiker. Relax.