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shotgunred
11-07-2010, 20:54
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Bullet-Feeder/
This will push more people to red.

Colorado4Wheel
11-07-2010, 21:01
Yeah, that was supposed to be a secret till next year. Jack must have spilled the beans.

Boxerglocker
11-07-2010, 21:53
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Bullet-Feeder/
This will push more people to red.

I really don't think that will be the case.... at $350 it's a big chuck of change which is basically the cost of the press itself, Plus I didn't catch what the cost of the dies were if if or if not included, the fact that they now will supply one is of no coincidence. Guys that want a bullet feeder and can afford it, get one...
Notice in the video, the way the guy has to constantly bend over while pulling the handle? If Horandy would come up with their own more ergonomic loading solutions that are equal to the Dillon strongmount and roller handle... now that would really draw in the customers IMHO.
My next bench will be a custom built marvel, with a design that will accommodate a LNL for standing loading.

Myke_Hart
11-08-2010, 04:39
I really don't think that will be the case.... at $350 it's a big chuck of change which is basically the cost of the press itself, Plus I didn't catch what the cost of the dies were if if or if not included, the fact that they now will supply one is of no coincidence. Guys that want a bullet feeder and can afford it, get one...
Notice in the video, the way the guy has to constantly bend over while pulling the handle? If Horandy would come up with their own more ergonomic loading solutions that are equal to the Dillon strongmount and roller handle... now that would really draw in the customers IMHO.
My next bench will be a custom built marvel, with a design that will accommodate a LNL for standing loading.

The funny thing is $350 is MSRP. This is a bit cheaper than all the others. The dies do not come with the feeder and are caliber specific at $29 MSRP but have metal collets unlike RCBS. Usually MSRP (manufacture SUGGESTED Retail price) is higher than what it will actually cost. Though late in the game, I think hornady will get some serious hits with this product... IF... it works and works well with other press brands. They are also making a rifle conversion for it. Others make you buy a different feeder.

Link to the prices
http://www.hornady.com/store/Lock-N-Load-Bullet-Feeder-New

I paid $400 for my RCBS and I still have to build a stand and brackets for it as it does not work, out of the box with my LNL press. I will probably have about $430 into it when I get it working. I will definately be a early adopter of the hornady when it comes out.

Randy from Kansas
11-08-2010, 06:07
Not bad but I would want it to feed lead bullets and not just jacket or plated bullets.

Bob2223
11-08-2010, 06:31
One of the main complaints I've seen with the RCBS is the plastic fingers in the die don't hold up well and you have to over flair/bell the cases.
Hornady made it a point to show the all metal bullet die in the video, if it pans out the LNL will be a full meal deal.

I'm just gonna wait on Jack's review of the new bullet feeder.

:supergrin:




Bob

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 06:46
Notice in the video, the way the guy has to constantly bend over while pulling the handle? If Horandy would come up with their own more ergonomic loading solutions that are equal to the Dillon strongmount and roller handle... now that would really draw in the customers IMHO.
My next bench will be a custom built marvel, with a design that will accommodate a LNL for standing loading.

Exactly. They would all have a strong mount if Hornady offered one. Bending over like that will kill your back in short order. I'm stunned they even show a video with the press mounted in such a halfass way. Can they not somehow mangage to get a bench the right height so they can see in the case and actually pull the handle with out bending over? What would that cost this company? Maybe $250? I think they could write it off on their taxes if they want to ;).

They should also hurry up and make a roller handle. A real one with out the funky bend (which is just Ultimate Reloaders bandaid for the press being too low).

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 06:50
One of the main complaints I've seen with the RCBS is the plastic fingers in the die don't hold up well and you have to over flair/bell the cases.
Hornady made it a point to show the all metal bullet die in the video, if it pans out the LNL will be a full meal deal.

I'm just gonna wait on Jack's review of the new bullet feeder.

:supergrin:

Bob

Agree. But Jack is going to be pissed. He told me it was going to work with Lead. He said "Get your LnL now before they have a run on them and your crying because you got a lousy Dillon". Something like that. He may have been oxygen depleted at the time. Who knows with him.

Bob2223
11-08-2010, 07:02
Agree. But Jack is going to be pissed. He told me it was going to work with Lead. He said "Get your LnL now before they have a run on them and your crying because you got a lousy Dillon". Something like that. He may have been oxygen depleted at the time. Who knows with him.
:rofl:


I would kinda like to have the bullet feeder mounted to the Star sizer, it might work with lead before they're lubed ?

Bob

jbrown13
11-08-2010, 08:16
Graf's already has them up on their web site, but show "out of stock". They are pricing the feeder at $245.00 and the dies at $24.00.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/search/keywords/bullet+feeder

GioaJack
11-08-2010, 09:19
Exactly. They would all have a strong mount if Hornady offered one. Bending over like that will kill your back in short order. I'm stunned they even show a video with the press mounted in such a halfass way. Can they not somehow mangage to get a bench the right height so they can see in the case and actually pull the handle with out bending over? What would that cost this company? Maybe $250? I think they could write it off on their taxes if they want to ;).

They should also hurry up and make a roller handle. A real one with out the funky bend (which is just Ultimate Reloaders bandaid for the press being too low).


I have to disagree with you there Stevie. I really think the 'funky bend' in the handle is the most unique and versatile feature. (We both agree that the thin pear shaped roller is lacking and probably needs to be replaced for most users.)

The bend incorporated allows the loader to adjust it so as to be most comfortable whether loading while standing or sitting and from virtually any angle on either side of the press or directly in front of it. It also offers the benefit of being able to adjust it to a different angle in the middle of a session within seconds to stave off fatigue. Except for the weird roller that comes with it the thing actually works pretty good... a little pricy though.

I certainly agree that whoever produced that video wasn't a marketing genius... why in the world wouldn't you have your product displayed under the best conditions possible? Would it have been that difficult to have a bench the proper height so the loader wasn't bending down with each handle stroke? Hell, if you don't have the right bench stick some cinder blocks under the legs and keep 'em out of the camera shot... what's the big deal?

Although I really do try not to bash different equipment, (you all know my room looks like a rainbow) this obsession with the 'strong mount' is really starting to border on the ridiculous.

Think about it, no matter how easy it might be to bolt a press onto the mount or how pretty you may think it looks it is still dependent on one thing... the height of your original bench. Build it too low to conform with the ending desirable height of the installed mount and what have you accomplished? Nothing.

Build the bench to the correct height, install the mount so that it provides a comfortable loading position, be it sitting or standing and you have a nifty little set-up... just like you would have had if you'd built the bench to the proper height for what ever machines you planned to use in the first place.

If you constructed bench is an inch or two low for comfortable operation just add one or two sheets of plywood. Too high, cut down the legs... or buy a tape measure before you start building the thing.

I suppose the strong mount comes in handy for those people who buy surplus cabinets and countertops but then you give up the versatility of designing a loading facility to match your own specific needs.

It certainly may be a side effect of my nightly meds and a low oxygen flow but I just don't see this teenage like infatuation with the strong mount.

I'm done... coffee cup's empty.


Jack

Bob2223
11-08-2010, 09:40
I liked the handle more forward and closer to the press myself.
Made it to suite me without spending a dime, it's 6 inch's or more forward and straight up and closer to the press.

Not a good pic to show both handles but you can kinda see the difference.
Look at the press handle on the right compared to the stock one on the left.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/BobMKIII/100_3014.jpg

Bob

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 09:43
I suppose the strong mount comes in handy for those people who buy surplus cabinets and countertops but then you give up the versatility of designing a loading facility to match your own specific needs.

Jack

Strong mount is the only good option for people who buy "Off the Rack" for tables and cabinets and want a standing setup. It's also the only option for people using cabinets with drawers that actually want to use the draw under the press. You may not think that is important most people want to use the drawer. I may not need a strong mount, you may not need one, but that is only because we built a bench at the height we wanted the bench to be at. But a lot of people don't make their own bench's. A lot of people use base cabinets with drawers as well. Both need a strong mount (or similiar) if they want a decent standing setup. Most work bench's are 36-40" tall. Even finding a 40" tall one is a tough thing. The Sams Club work bench is 38" tall and if you want to stand you really need a strong mount.

GioaJack
11-08-2010, 09:46
Strong mount is the only good option for people who buy "Off the Rack" for tables and cabinets and want a standing setup. It's also the only option for people using cabinets with drawers that actually want to use the draw under the press. You may not think that is important most people want to use the drawer. I may not need a strong mount, you may not need one, but that is only because we built a bench at the height we wanted the bench to be at. But a lot of people don't make their own bench's. A lot of people use base cabinets with drawers as well. Both need a strong mount (or similiar) if they want a decent standing setup. Most work bench's are 36-40" tall. Even finding a 40" tall one is a tough thing. The Sams Club work bench is 38" tall and if you want to stand you really need a strong mount.


Okay, I'll agree with all that.

Hey, aren't you supposed to be in class?


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 09:50
Jack and Bob.

The only way the handle can be adjusted front to back with the angle built in the lever/rod is to move it on it's axis at the bottom. When you do that the Roller Handle is now at a weird angle. So yeah, you can move the handle forward and back, but it moves to the side as well and it also makes the roller work at some weird angle. Said another way, looking from above-down, if the spin the handle 15degrees then the roller is also going to be 15 degrees off. It will move the handle toward the front but at the cost of the roller being 15 degrees off center. RIGHT? That is why I would assume Bob has his handle with a ball on it rather then the roller. If I am wrong then post a picture of the handle moved forward and back because I am totally missing something.

So I contend the only real purpose of the bend is to prevent the handle for going as low when it's at the bottom of the stroke.

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 09:51
Okay, I'll agree with all that.

Hey, aren't you supposed to be in class?


Jack

Taking a quick break from studying. Going back to the books right now.

GioaJack
11-08-2010, 10:07
There's no adjustment as far as 'forward' or 'back' is concerned, it's screwed into the linkage just like a normal handle.

There are actually two bends in the handle bar, one that allows the handle to travel over the top of the bench, (not above it, over the edge and back several inches). This provides for a much, much shorter downstroke. I measured it once for either Boxer or Indy, can't remember which one they both always have me running around doin stuff for 'em, and as I recall it shortened the downstroke by either 7 or 9 inches. It is quite significant. (There's a couple threads on it with a bunch of pictures.)

The second bend, (angle) allows you to adjust the pull of the handle for whichever position you're loading from. As an example, before I installed the case feeders I used to sit to the left of the machine so I simply adjusted the handle so I wasn't having to reach 'around' the machine... It was adjusted so the roller was more to the right, farther from the side of the machine, and was a more natural movement.

Now that I have the feeders I have my chair pretty much directly in front of the machine and have readjusted the angle so that it's closer to the side. Works pretty good, especially for me since I can adjust it depending on what my physical condition is that day.

The higher downstroke stop makes a big, big difference, keeps me from having to stretch even a little which for most people would be no big deal... at least until they get older.


Jack

Jumper
11-08-2010, 10:55
I've had a KISS bullet feeder for my LnL AP for about a year. I only have the .223 kit for it. Caliber change over kits for it cost $150 last time I checked. If Hornady is only charging ~$250 for it and ~$30 for a die, thats a smokin deal! The KISS cost ~$600 when I bought it! The KISS looks more refined but if the Hornady works just as well who cares.

Whats up with nitpicking the video about the bench height?!?! Gimme a break.

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 11:15
There's no adjustment as far as 'forward' or 'back' is concerned, it's screwed into the linkage just like a normal handle.

There are actually two bends in the handle bar, one that allows the handle to travel over the top of the bench, (not above it, over the edge and back several inches). This provides for a much, much shorter downstroke. I measured it once for either Boxer or Indy, can't remember which one they both always have me running around doin stuff for 'em, and as I recall it shortened the downstroke by either 7 or 9 inches. It is quite significant. (There's a couple threads on it with a bunch of pictures.)

The second bend, (angle) allows you to adjust the pull of the handle for whichever position you're loading from. As an example, before I installed the case feeders I used to sit to the left of the machine so I simply adjusted the handle so I wasn't having to reach 'around' the machine... It was adjusted so the roller was more to the right, farther from the side of the machine, and was a more natural movement.

Now that I have the feeders I have my chair pretty much directly in front of the machine and have readjusted the angle so that it's closer to the side. Works pretty good, especially for me since I can adjust it depending on what my physical condition is that day.

The higher downstroke stop makes a big, big difference, keeps me from having to stretch even a little which for most people would be no big deal... at least until they get older.


Jack

I don't think we are talking about the same thing. Try this. What happens the roller part of the handle when you "adjust the handle?

1) does it move up and down relative to the floor?
2) Does it spin on it's axis relative to the machine (looking from the above perspective?)
3) Both
4) Something totally different that Steve just can't seem to wrap his head around?

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 11:19
Whats up with nitpicking the video about the bench height?!?! Gimme a break.

It's called "irony"

They have a press that is too low, and they don't even make a strong mount to solve the issue. They highlight that shortcomming in a video advertising another product.

an outcome of events contrary to what was, or might have been, expected.

ron59
11-08-2010, 11:40
I'm going to end up buying a strong mount for my 550B soon. I built my own bench... and from all my reading, read that the handle on the 550B should be shoulder high. I wanted to reload on a bar stool... my bench is TALL!!! It's really taller than I'd like. It's fine if I'm loading, but if I want to do something else, (like clean my gun on it)... the bench comes mid-chest when I'm sitting!

I'm going to cut my legs down about 8 inches, and put a strong mount on. That will give me a better working surface, and still keep the press at the proper height.

Oh... and sorry about not staying "on topic".
That bullet feeder looks pretty good (agree about the video and the dude bending over... that was funny). I love my 550B, but it's really too slow for me. I want to move to (at minimum) a 650, with a casefeeder and a bullet feeder. I was leaning towards the KISS feeder, as that was the (until now) only affordable/reliable alternative. But for $245 and $25 per die? I'm there. Of course... that's assuming it will be what it's cracked up to be.

I'll be expecting one of you "red" guys to get one and report back ASAP!!! :supergrin:

Boxerglocker
11-08-2010, 11:47
Strong mount is the only good option for people who buy "Off the Rack" for tables and cabinets and want a standing setup. It's also the only option for people using cabinets with drawers that actually want to use the draw under the press. You may not think that is important most people want to use the drawer. I may not need a strong mount, you may not need one, but that is only because we built a bench at the height we wanted the bench to be at. But a lot of people don't make their own bench's. A lot of people use base cabinets with drawers as well. Both need a strong mount (or similiar) if they want a decent standing setup. Most work bench's are 36-40" tall. Even finding a 40" tall one is a tough thing. The Sams Club work bench is 38" tall and if you want to stand you really need a strong mount.

I'm definately in that bracket of consumers right now... In the future I'll be building a custon reloading bench with all the features needed to accomadate my chosen presses.



Whats up with nitpicking the video about the bench height?!?! Gimme a break.

If your truly serious about getting the best bang for you buck. Once budget is considered, ergonomics are a factor in the decision making process of buying a press IMHO, economy of motion makes a huge difference in the time and comfort of a reloading session.

I could honestly tell you right now... knowing that Horandy is coming out with that bullet feeder, if a couple months ago when I decided on a XL650, if they would have offered a equivelent strongmount and roller handle option as the Dillon line. That would have been the push for me to go with the LNL and wait patiently for the feeder to be release.

ron59
11-08-2010, 11:54
I could honestly tell you right now... knowing that Horandy is coming out with that bullet feeder, if a couple months ago when I decided on a XL650, if they would have offered a equivelent strongmount and roller handle option as the Dillon line. That would have been the push for me to go with the LNL and wait patiently for the feeder to be release.

I gotta say... I love my 550B... but that LNL with the casefeeder (and now bullet feeder?), sure sounds tempting.

Boxerglocker
11-08-2010, 11:58
One thing I cannot tell from the Video...
I'm assuming the bullet feeder mounting bar will be included in the purchase of the feeder itself.
It will interesting to see if it will be possible and what will be involved in adapting it to a Dillon XL650. :whistling:

shotgunred
11-08-2010, 14:03
Strong mount is the only good option for people who buy "Off the Rack" for tables and cabinets and want a standing setup. It's also the only option for people using cabinets with drawers that actually want to use the draw under the press. You may not think that is important most people want to use the drawer. I may not need a strong mount, you may not need one, but that is only because we built a bench at the height we wanted the bench to be at. But a lot of people don't make their own bench's. A lot of people use base cabinets with drawers as well. Both need a strong mount (or similiar) if they want a decent standing setup. Most work bench's are 36-40" tall. Even finding a 40" tall one is a tough thing. The Sams Club work bench is 38" tall and if you want to stand you really need a strong mount.
Wow your in construction and you don't know how to build a small but sturdy box and attach it to a table top? Come on Steve how hard can it be use a $19.00 kreg pocket screw jig and some glue and some 3/4 inch plywood.

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 14:06
Wow your in construction and you don't know how to build a small but sturdy box and attach it to a table top? Come on Steve how hard can it be use a $19.00 kreg pocket screw jig and some glue and some 3/4 inch plywood.

:faint:
Do you think I was talking about myself or someone else?
:faint:

shotgunred
11-08-2010, 14:10
I would be seriously worried if you couldn't make a cheap box. You do build houses for a living don't you?

Colorado4Wheel
11-08-2010, 15:08
Yes I can make a box. If you can make a box you can also make your own workbench. So it's kinda a moot point.

Boxerglocker
11-08-2010, 15:32
Wow your in construction and you don't know how to build a small but sturdy box and attach it to a table top? Come on Steve how hard can it be use a $19.00 kreg pocket screw jig and some glue and some 3/4 inch plywood.

I've seen that done... and debated doing it myself...but it's IMO lame and just ugly on a bench. If anything, the effort to actually get a piece of .090 steel and welding it together woould be my option. That's time I don't have right now though.... goes back to what I was saying before. Convenience makes a big difference in choices of what to buy.

Bob2223
11-08-2010, 15:37
I've seen that done... and debated doing it myself...but it's IMO lame and just ugly on a bench. If anything, the effort to actually get a piece of .090 steel and welding it together woould be my option. That's time I don't have right now though.... goes back to what I was saying before. Convenience makes a big difference in choices of what to buy.

I saw some nice wide oak boards at the Lowes?
Just thinkin,,, :whistling:


Bob :supergrin:

Boxerglocker
11-08-2010, 15:44
I saw some nice wide oak boards at the Lowes?
Just thinkin,,, :whistling:


Bob :supergrin:

If Horandy does not come out with a strong mount of thier own by the time I get around to building my bench. I'll just build the surface stepped up specifically for it (my LNL :whistling:). I'll be facing the front with a nice looking wood... The GF's father is a bigtime wood working enthusiist, has all the table mounted equipment and a corian CNC machine everything...
he's been pushing me to build it already, but just have nowhere to put it yet.

shotgunred
11-08-2010, 15:46
Yes I can make a box. If you can make a box you can also make your own workbench. So it's kinda a moot point.
Not really. I like my bench at a height that is good to use as a bench. I find my 550 is set best for me 5 inches taller than the bench. So instead if compromising either I simply made a 5 inch box for it and pocketholed it to my bench.
It is solid and very secure yet temporary if I chose to remove it. It also cost about $45. less than a Strongmount.

Bob2223
11-08-2010, 15:49
If Horandy does not come out with a strong mount of thier own by the time I get around to building my bench. I'll just build the surface stepped up specifically for it (my LNL :whistling:). I'll be facing the front with a nice looking wood... The GF's father is a bigtime wood working enthusiist, has all the table mounted equipment and a corian CNC machine everything...
he's been pushing me to build it already, but just have nowhere to put it yet.


Well there ya go ! :thumbsup:

I dang sure wouldn't buy a mount if I had access the that kind of equip!

And it would be purty with red on it !



Bob

shotgunred
11-08-2010, 15:55
Graf's already has them up on their web site, but show "out of stock". They are pricing the feeder at $245.00 and the dies at $24.00.

http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/search/keywords/bullet+feeder

Yea I saw that. I can even afford one if they ever get enough in stock to sell them. I bet they are hot sellers for a while.

Colorado4Wheel
11-09-2010, 14:06
Not really. I like my bench at a height that is good to use as a bench. I find my 550 is set best for me 5 inches taller than the bench. So instead if compromising either I simply made a 5 inch box for it and pocketholed it to my bench.
It is solid and very secure yet temporary if I chose to remove it. It also cost about $45. less than a Strongmount.

I just built a bench with multiple levels. A press only needs 24" to give you plenty of working room. So I have a 8' "bench" @ 42" and a 24" bench @ 47" work area for my press. I would not do as you suggest for a couple reasons.

If you elevate the press on a "Home Made Strong Mount" you really need to also elevate the bullets and the cases (assuming no case feeder). Otherwise your reaching pretty low to get those items. You could make a bullet tray. But I prefer not too for reason stated below. If I wanted a elevated press I would bite the bullet (so to speak) and get the stong mount and the bullet tray. BUT, I prefer my setup for a couple simple reasons. By my setup I mean the 24" work bench @ 47" (or whatever you prefer).

1) I like a small elevated work area for filling primer tubes. Gets the primers closer so I can see them and also keeps the end of the tube away from my face.
2) I prefer to not have a fixed bullet and case tray. I find with my empty cases I can fill a shallow "1" deep by 7" square tray with empty cases. I can pick from the front, spin it, pick from the front again, repeat. I also get to shake it briefly and the cases will right themselves making the easier to insert in the press. Same goes for the bullet tray but I only spin it. They really don't right themselves if you shake the tray with my bullet choice.

To each their own. I kinda fell into the "not liking the empty case bin" thing. But now that I have used it like that for a while I really like how shaking the tray will right them for me and spinning the tray makes them easier to grab.