economics of reloading [Archive] - Glock Talk

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michael88
11-09-2010, 12:27
so i am about to purchase an ak 47. i started a thread earlier and indy has me thinking about reloading now, as i didnt think it was smart/possible in a small apartment. i looked at some of the stickys in this portion of the forum as to what all i would need to get started. it seems like to get started its goign to take several hundreds of dollars. my question is 7.62 x 39 is going for under .20 a round online, how much, on average do you think you can make them for? i am trying to justify the purchase of the equipment to myself. basically is it a hobby, or does it really save you a lot of money.

ron59
11-09-2010, 12:49
It's definitely money saving.

Currently, I'm only loading for 9mm, which isn't considered to be one of the more "cost savings" calibers. But... I can load 1000 9mm for around $140 or so.
Try buying 9mm for that price at Walmart. WWB is $23.xx per 100 so close to $250 per 1000. You can get FC for $10.xx per 50, so it's $210 or so. Also, you have to take into consideration that my price is for loading 147gr bullets, it would be much cheaper if I loaded the comparable 115gr bullets.

For calibers like .45ACP or .40? The savings is MUCH better. However... I can't speak for rifle cartridges such as you're asking. But I would imagine it would be cheaper.

Yes... it can cost quite a bit to get "into" reloading. Heck, it's not even cheap once you have the press, because you have to buy the components IN BULK to get the savings. I'm talking about buying 10,000 primers at a time... 8 pounds of powder at a time. If you're not willing to lay out $400 or $500 in component purchases... reloading might not be the best way to go.

But if you're a shooter... it's the ONLY way to go.

IndyGunFreak
11-09-2010, 12:57
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267966

Read that thread, it's not really the subject of the thread, but it turned the direction of cost....

Look at post #62... I used a pretty common calculator, to calculate my costs for 9mm. I usually run right around $115 for a case of 9mm.

I don't load rifle, but I can only imagine similar savings could be found.

fredj338
11-09-2010, 13:17
You probably aren't going to beat cheap Russina 7.62 ammo by much reloading it, especially since boxer primed 7.62x39 brass isn't cheaply available like 223. Still reloading can save you some & if you branch out to other calibers, 50% savings over cheap Russian crap is worth it. I have reloaded in some pretty small spaces. In college, I had a setup in a 3x3 coat closet in my apt. You don't need much room.

El_Ron1
11-09-2010, 14:11
For 20 years, it has not been cost effective for me to reload 7.63x39 due to component cost and availability vs. imported ammunition costs. If that's the only caliber you intend to reload, I'd pass.

shotgunred
11-09-2010, 14:44
I reload every caliber I shoot except 7.62 x 39. I can buy it cheaper than I can reload it. Just buy it by the case.

dudel
11-09-2010, 15:08
For everything but shotshell and 7.62, you can save money reloading. Shotshells are cheap at Walmart, and 7.62 is the cheapest round available. If that's all you plan to reload; I'd recommend a pass.

XDRoX
11-09-2010, 15:12
I reload every caliber I shoot except 7.62 x 39.

Same here. And 22lr. Oh, and 8x56mm, but I do plan on reloading this some day. It's very expensive.

robin303
11-09-2010, 16:03
Unless you want to start a fun hobby.

MinervaDoe
11-09-2010, 17:08
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1267966

Read that thread, it's not really the subject of the thread, but it turned the direction of cost....

Look at post #62... I used a pretty common calculator, to calculate my costs for 9mm. I usually run right around $115 for a case of 9mm.
I set up a spreadsheet to do the same thing, but the web page you posted has has a great WOW factor.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Thanks for posting that link.
I usually run right around $115 for a case of 9mm.
So, you are loading 9mm for 11.5 cents a round.

IndyGunFreak
11-09-2010, 17:10
So, you are loading 9mm for 11.5 cents a round.

Roughly.... I think it's actually a bit less than that.

It'd be considerably cheaper if I cast my own bullets, but I'm pretty happy w/ Precision Delta. I typically don't screw up what works.

fredj338
11-09-2010, 19:00
I set up a spreadsheet to do the same thing, but the web page you posted has has a great WOW factor.
http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Thanks for posting that link.

So, you are loading 9mm for 11.5 cents a round.
I can do 9mm for just over 10c/rd w/ 115grFMJ from PD.:supergrin: Used to be below when they were $67/1000. Certainly lead bullets are cheaper & casting your own gets you down near 22lr costs. As always, this assumes yo ubuy in some kind of bulk.

MinervaDoe
11-09-2010, 19:36
I can do 9mm for just over 10c/rd w/ 115grFMJ from PD.:supergrin:
PD?

I need to plug some 9mm numbers into my spreadsheet. It's setup for 10mm right now.

IndyGunFreak
11-09-2010, 20:11
PD?

I need to plug some 9mm numbers into my spreadsheet. It's setup for 10mm right now.

Precision Delta...

http://www.precisiondelta.com

chris in va
11-09-2010, 22:34
it seems like to get started its goign to take several hundreds of dollars.

Yikes, what? No. More like $200. Someone tell you to start with a Dillon?

michael88
11-09-2010, 23:28
chris,
today is the first time ive ventured into this sub forum. i read the stickys and it seems as if you need tumblers and all other sorts of contraptions that would start adding up very quick. if all you need is a press please let me know that i am wrong.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 00:55
chris,
today is the first time ive ventured into this sub forum. i read the stickys and it seems as if you need tumblers and all other sorts of contraptions that would start adding up very quick. if all you need is a press please let me know that i am wrong.

Well you don't need a tumbler but you do need a little bit more than just a press. Look at the sticky on reloading, but a min:
Single stage press
dies & shell holder for each caliber
good powder scale
calipers
loading block (to hold rounds)
powder funnel (to get the powder in the cases)
If the press doesn't have a priming arm, you need a hand priming unit to get the new primers in
(2) reloading manuals
powder, bullets & primers
That is the min to get started making ammo IMO. There are things like the Lee hand press, not unless you like to work long hours at it. Pretty tough to do it for much less than $200 bucks for new gear with any quality. A good scale is $50, Lee CC @ $80, dies @ $30, little things, right @ $200 for one caliber. For rifles, eventually yo uneed to trim cases & you can certainly just wipe them off w/ a damp cloth prior to loading them. They won't be shiney, but they will be clean.:dunno:

shotgunred
11-10-2010, 05:00
chris,
today is the first time ive ventured into this sub forum. i read the stickys and it seems as if you need tumblers and all other sorts of contraptions that would start adding up very quick. if all you need is a press please let me know that i am wrong.

It does add up quickly. Even with a lee classic turret with lee dies, an ok scale, 2K bullets, 1K primers and a pound of powder you are well over $300.
How much do you shoot? My press payed for itself in less than six months. But it all comes down to having some extra cash and taking an honest look at how much you shoot every month.

Answer these questions and we can give you a better response.
What do you shoot?
How much you shoot every month?
What is your comfortable budget?

PCJim
11-10-2010, 06:52
I think many shooters who consider reloading do so primarily from an economics point of view. And I suppose many of us old timers probably did so also when we first considered the venture.

A newcomer really should look at reloading more as a true hobby, similar to fishing, RC cars or boats, model rocketry, etc. The hobby is enjoyable in itself, and very rewarding as a regular shooting enthusiast. It is definitely NOT just about simple cost savings.

ron59
11-10-2010, 07:27
I think many shooters who consider reloading do so primarily from an economics point of view. And I suppose many of us old timers probably did so also when we first considered the venture.


I agree, and also think where many focus is on "startup costs". They don't realize how expensive it can be just to buy components to actually *realize* the cost savings.

For me... I can't buy components locally that will make reloading cost effective. And the only way to really see the true savings is to buy in BULK, and that's not cheap. For example, while I can buy bullets 1000 at a time... I'd be paying WAY more more bullet than if I buy them 3000 at a time. So that alone goes from $122 (for the 1000), to $300 (for the 3000). A $300 dollar outlay just for bullets isn't cheap.

Same with primers. With the hazmat fee, if you don't buy 10,000 primers in one order, you're not getting any kind of savings. For Federal primers, your invoice is going to be $285'ish. That's not cheap.

So... yes, you can save money by reloading. But if you can't come up with $300 here, and $300 there JUST FOR COMPONENTS... you won't be saving nearly as much as those of us who can do so.

This hobby is one of those "catch 22s". If you don't have much available money, you won't really be able to 'save' money by doing it, as your component cost will be too high.

Dogue
11-10-2010, 10:16
This hobby is one of those "catch 22s". If you don't have much available money, you won't really be able to 'save' money by doing it, as your component cost will be too high.
And of course the other "catch 22" is that when you reload you tend to shoot more so you do end up spending even more. I know I would spend much less time at the range if I had to buy factory ammo all the time.

ron59
11-10-2010, 10:51
And of course the other "catch 22" is that when you reload you tend to shoot more so you do end up spending even more. I know I would spend much less time at the range if I had to buy factory ammo all the time.

I guess. For me, I have a "budget" that I can use for shooting any given month. If I was buying ammo off the shelf, I would be shooting less ammo that what I can by reloading it.

So, I shoot more, for the same amount of money. But I am NOT spending more money just because I can shoot cheaper?

YMMV

fredj338
11-10-2010, 13:02
And of course the other "catch 22" is that when you reload you tend to shoot more so you do end up spending even more. I know I would spend much less time at the range if I had to buy factory ammo all the time.
You may shoot more, but that is your choice. That is one of the great reasons for reloading; shoot more for less or shoot as little as you want, either way, your per round cost are always less so you always save money. One doesn't need a lot of start up cost if you are willing to put the time in to make ammo, a single stage press works fine, I used one for some 10yrs before I went progressive. Trying to load 3K rounds a month for competition on a ss or even a turret is a bit daunting, especially w/ 3 kids & a job.:shocked:

MinervaDoe
11-10-2010, 14:57
Precision Delta...

http://www.precisiondelta.com
Pardon my French, but WTF??? :wow:
$70.00 for 1,000 rounds of FMJ !!!!
That's like 30% lower than Remington and the same price as Ranier plated.

:bowdown:Thank You. You da man. :picard:


Sku: B-9-115-FMJ
Description: .355 diam.
Caliber: 9mm Luger
Grains: 115gr
Type: Full Metal Jacket - Ball - Copper Jacket
Class: Precision Delta Bullets
Unit Price: $70.00 per 1000


The .40 S&W/10mm bullets are nearly half the price of Remington.

IndyGunFreak
11-10-2010, 15:17
Pardon my French, but WTF??? :wow:
$70.00 for 1,000 rounds of FMJ !!!!
That's like 30% lower than Remington and the same price as Ranier plated.

:bowdown:Thank You. You da man. :picard:



The .40 S&W/10mm bullets are nearly half the price of Remington.

LOL.. No wonder you were suprised we were loading FMJ for 110-115 per k.

They have pretty good bullets, I imagine you'll be happy with them. Shipping is included in that price, and you have to order in 2k lots. Order over 6k rounds, and you start getting discounts per k(you can mix/match to get the discount).

IGF

Boxerglocker
11-10-2010, 15:17
Pardon my French, but WTF??? :wow:
$70.00 for 1,000 rounds of FMJ !!!!
That's like 30% lower than Remington and the same price as Ranier plated.

:bowdown:Thank You. You da man. :picard:



The .40 S&W/10mm bullets are nearly half the price of Remington.

My current total for PD 124 FMJ is $107 a K, that's loaded with FREE brass of course. It will be lower when I get inot the 10K of wolf/tula primers I bought at $18 a K. With Bear Creek 125 RN moly coated lead it's $90 a K.

With that kind of savings, over store bought WWB at Walmart, you can pay for a $300-400 set up real quick... then the savings continues.

MinervaDoe
11-10-2010, 19:29
LOL.. No wonder you were suprised we were loading FMJ for 110-115 per k.

:supergrin: For the next go round, I just lined up 2,000 rounds of 9mm 147 grain match bullets for $100. :shocked: I'll pick them up tomorrow.

They have pretty good bullets, I imagine you'll be happy with them. Shipping is included in that price, and you have to order in 2k lots. Order over 6k rounds, and you start getting discounts per k(you can mix/match to get the discount).

IGF
When you say I can mix and match, would I be able to get 1,000 rounds of 10mm and 1,000 rounds of 9mm (for example)?

Okay, when I plug the Precision Delta price in, I get 11.4 cents per round to reload brass and 27 cents per round when I buy brass.

$8.00 for fifty rounds pays for a reloading press fairly quickly if you shoot one box a week.
Example:
$20 for store bought 9mm ammo - compared to $8 for reloads = a savings of $12 a week.
52 weeks in a year X $12 = $624 in the first year.

GioaJack
11-10-2010, 19:47
If you cast and know how to scrounge lead you can load 50 for less than $2.50. :whistling:


Jack

wavetrain75
11-10-2010, 20:08
7.62x39 is one of the few that is cheaper to buy factory made. Even 9mm is cheaper to reload now.

Maybe I lucked out when I bought the components but I load 20 ga 7 1/2 shot for about 10 cents each. Find a place selling reclaimed shot and you can get it for less than a dollar a pound.

IndyGunFreak
11-10-2010, 20:09
When you say I can mix and match, would I be able to get 1,000 rounds of 10mm and 1,000 rounds of 9mm (for example)

I'm *pretty sure*... yes. I've always bought around 2-3 calibers at a time, usually for a total of about 6-8k..s o it's never been an issue for me.. I'm sure if you call them, they'll break it down for you.

IGF

Boxerglocker
11-10-2010, 21:05
I'm *pretty sure*... yes. I've always bought around 2-3 calibers at a time, usually for a total of about 6-8k..s o it's never been an issue for me.. I'm sure if you call them, they'll break it down for you.

IGF

Yes you can, but if you do.... try and buy at least 6K at time... another $2 off a K. Just Split the order with a buddy if you have to...

IndyGunFreak
11-11-2010, 06:48
PD?

I need to plug some 9mm numbers into my spreadsheet. It's setup for 10mm right now.

If you want to set it up on a Spreadsheet, if you understand the "math" function of your spreadsheet app, it should be easy. I don't use MS Office(use Open Office), but I just did it in about 5min.. Best I can tell, compared to the one on Handloads.com, it shows the same numbers calculations/costs, etc. So it looks like that chart, is accurate to about .0001.

I'd actually never considered having one locally, in case for some reason the internet is not available.

Bob2223
11-11-2010, 09:12
If you cast and know how to scrounge lead you can load 50 for less than $2.50. :whistling:


Jack

:thumbsup:



Bob

MinervaDoe
11-11-2010, 09:16
If you want to set it up on a Spreadsheet, if you understand the "math" function of your spreadsheet app, it should be easy. I don't use MS Office(use Open Office), but I just did it in about 5min.. Best I can tell, compared to the one on Handloads.com, it shows the same numbers calculations/costs, etc. So it looks like that chart, is accurate to about .0001.

I'd actually never considered having one locally, in case for some reason the internet is not available.
I like having one locally so I don't need to re-enter data. It makes it easy to change one variable and get a new calcuation. Once you're set up, you never have to think it out much.
The key for me was to include a calculation for cost per round of the powder. With 7,000 grains in a pound, you can figure out your cost per pound and cost per grain. .... and grains per round ...
The online calculators are great. I'm just too lazy to use them.
.... plus I like spreadsheets :ack::rollingeyes: I'm kind of funny that way.

dudel
11-11-2010, 09:20
If you cast and know how to scrounge lead you can load 50 for less than $2.50. :whistling:


Jack

You mean going out a night to large parking lots with pliers and a bucket? :whistling:

Don

IndyGunFreak
11-11-2010, 09:25
I like having one locally so I don't need to re-enter data. It makes it easy to change one variable and get a new calcuation. Once you're set up, you never have to think it out much.
The key for me was to include a calculation for cost per round of the powder. With 7,000 grains in a pound, you can figure out your cost per pound and cost per grain. .... and grains per round ...
The online calculators are great. I'm just too lazy to use them.
.... plus I like spreadsheets :ack::rollingeyes: I'm kind of funny that way.

Yup.. once you know how to break everything down, it's simple to change it w/ a simple keystroke

MinervaDoe
11-11-2010, 10:20
You mean going out a night to large parking lots with pliers and a bucket? :whistling:

Don
... and looking for Prius's ..... :rofl:

AJE
11-11-2010, 19:21
Here's an easy one I commonly use:

http://www.handloads.com/calc/loadingCosts.asp

Input the price you paid, the quantity you bought, and it will break down the price per round, price per 50rd box, and 1,000 case.

I could probably set it up in excel but it's easier just to use the one provided :D

My costs for 10mm plinking rounds:
29c with new brass ($14.50 a 50rd box) Cheapest I found new was $18 a box and mine are loaded hotter.
Reloaded brass: 15c a round ($7.91 a 50rd box, $159 a 1K case) I don't even know where to get a case of 1,000 rounds FMJ 10mm, and I'd hate to think of what it would cost.

Bob2223
11-11-2010, 19:52
My current total for PD 124 FMJ is $107 a K, that's loaded with FREE brass of course. It will be lower when I get inot the 10K of wolf/tula primers I bought at $18 a K. With Bear Creek 125 RN moly coated lead it's $90 a K.

With that kind of savings, over store bought WWB at Walmart, you can pay for a $300-400 set up real quick... then the savings continues.



If ya get wheel weights in the Walmart parking lot and cast em up it's a little cheaper :whistling:



Handloading Cost Calculator





<HR width="75%" SIZE=3>

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD><FORM name=Load><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TH>Component <TH><TH>Number <TH>Cost <TR><TD>Powder (lbs) <TD><TD><INPUT value=1> <TD>$ <INPUT value=17.72> <TR><TD>Powder Charge (gr) <TD><TD><INPUT value=4.6> <TR><TD>Primer <TD><TD><INPUT value=1000> <TD>$ <INPUT value=17.00> <TR><TD>Case <TD><TD><INPUT value=1000> <TD>$ <INPUT value=0> <TR><TD>Bullet <TD><TD><INPUT value=1000> <TD>$ <INPUT value=0> <TR><TD><INPUT onclick=doMath() type=button value=Calculate> <TR><TD>Cost / round <TD>$ <TD><INPUT maxLength=5 value=0.029> <TR><TD>Cost / 50 <TD>$ <TD><INPUT maxLength=5 value=1.43> <TR><TD>Cost / 1000 <TD>$ <TD><INPUT maxLength=5 value=28.64></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></FORM></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Bob :supergrin:

Kegs
11-11-2010, 19:52
For 20 years, it has not been cost effective for me to reload 7.63x39 due to component cost and availability vs. imported ammunition costs. If that's the only caliber you intend to reload, I'd pass.

As soon as the OP mentioned 7.62x39 my thought is that it is the #1 cheapest centerfire rifle round bar none - no way to reload cheaper than you can buy ammo for it...

...However, if you want some variety it might present some "value" to your shooting (precision is pretty crappy with Wolf, etc. FMJ and HP steel cased ammo).

All other centerfire rifle and pistol rounds (except 7.62x25) are definitely worth reloading.

dudel
11-12-2010, 04:34
...However, if you want some variety it might present some "value" to your shooting (precision is pretty crappy with Wolf, etc. FMJ and HP steel cased ammo.

Precise 7.69... Always thought that was an oxymoron considering most of the platforms that shoot that round. :supergrin:

Sounds like an excercise in herding cats.

shotgunred
11-12-2010, 05:02
I don't know about that. I have a sks that I drilled and taped for a scope mount. It will shoot just fine out to 150 yards. Honestly I wont shoot at a game animal further out that that anyways. It is more than accurate enough for deer hunting as long as you realize it in the 30-30 league. I am certianly a lot more willing to drag it through the scrub brush which I wont do with my fancy 30-06.