Die adjustments? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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97XJ_Sport
11-09-2010, 14:52
Sorry if I missed this in the sticky's, but I'm just starting to reload for my G29 on a single stage Lee challenger press and I don't know how far up or down the die should be in the press? Any help would be much appreciated.

Boxerglocker
11-09-2010, 15:06
Which die? Sizing, seating, crimp????

PCJim
11-09-2010, 15:32
Not to be offensive, but what brand of dies do you have whose manufacturer failed to include instructions?

Depending upon the brand, there could be minor variances in setting the dies up. The resizing/depriming die is generally set so that when the ram is raised, the bottom of the die will just touch the shellholder. Then screw the die in another 1/8 - 1/4 turn so that the press will "cam-over".

The flaring of the case may be done with a second powder thru die. This die is set by raising the ram with a case in position, then screwing the die down until it gives you just enough flare to be able to sit a bullet on the case without it falling off. Alternately raise/lower the ram while you make your adjustments. You want to have just enough flare, not too much. Google images can be your friend here.

The bullet seating/crimping die is set in two steps. You will first adjust the COL using a bullet atop the flared case. Once that is set, you will then adjust the die to remove the flare. --> Raise the ram with a flared case without a bullet. Screw the die down until you can feel it touch the flared mouth of the case. Back the die out a full turn or two, finger lock the die. Lower the ram, set a bullet on the flared case and raise ram. You should not feel any resistance. If you do, stop and screw the die out another turn. Screw the bullet seating plug down to adjust the bullet seating depth. You will alternately raise/lower the ram and make seating plug adjustments until you reach your desired COL. Once you reach the desired COL, lower the ram and screw the seating plug back out so that it will not come into contact with the bullet while adjusting the flare removal.

Raise ram with flared case and seated bullet. Screw the die down until it makes contact with the flared mouth (no contact with bullet seating plug!), slightly lower ram, screw the die down 1/4 turn, raise ram, lower ram and check flare. Repeat this until you have just removed the flare. Lock the die. Raise the ram with your no-flare case and seated bullet, screw the bullet seating plug down until it makes contact with the bullet. The die is now set to both seat the bullet and remove the flare.

I hope this helps. It really is not has hard as it may read.

dudel
11-09-2010, 16:15
Sorry if I missed this in the sticky's, but I'm just starting to reload for my G29 on a single stage Lee challenger press and I don't know how far up or down the die should be in the press? Any help would be much appreciated.

Please take this in the positive manner it's intended. Not to be rude; but RTFM! People spend a good deal of time and effort to explain how their dies should be adjusted (they all have their find differences). Once you get them "adjusted", what do you plan to use for load data? Do you even know what order to use the dies? How did you select components? :wow: Your question shows a complete lack of understanding of the process.

You sound very, totally, blindly and completely lost. You need to read a book (ABC's of Reloading is highly recommended) before you pull the handle on a round.

This is for your own good (and those near you). :faint:

ilgunguygt
11-09-2010, 16:47
Man, we need you to start at the beginning here. Tell us what you know, what you are using and what you are trying to accomplish. Many of us are hesistant to give advice until we know that you are able to use it without killing yourself.

Have you ever watched someone reload? What about reading manuals? Have you done it?

PCJim
11-09-2010, 17:10
Well, I was hesitant but did do him a favor by posting setup instructions. I can see some scenarios where you could obtain dies without instructions, but every reloading manual pretty much covers the generalities of doing so.

Boxerglocker
11-09-2010, 17:13
Well, I was hesitant but did do him a favor by posting setup instructions. I can see some scenarios where you could obtain dies without instructions, but every reloading manual pretty much covers the generalities of doing so.

You did way too much IMO... Kinda scary that some people think it's just soooo simple.... well it is... and can get soooo dangerous as well.
If folks wanting to start out would just read the ABC's right off the bat or even the introduction section of most manuals. We wouldn't have so many post such as this.

coondog22554
11-09-2010, 17:28
97XJ_Sport,

Welcome to GT. :wavey:
Hopefully you have thick skin and will be back to make a second post.

MrVvrroomm
11-09-2010, 17:54
... I'm just starting to reload... I don't know how far up or down the die should be in the press?

rtfm!

97XJ_Sport
11-09-2010, 21:23
Don't have to worry about me being negligent while reloading, thats why I'm asking ya'll questions :supergrin:. Anyway's I'm using Lee dies from the deluxe pistol set and blue dot for the powder, Alliant's recommended load for now, starline brass and CCI large pistol primers. I'm also using Oregon Trail laser-cast bullets (don't worry already have a lone wolf barrel). I also just found the manual that came with the dies which I thought had been thrown away accidentally, which answers alot of questions. I know I need to get the ABC's book pronto also. Thanks for concern, nice to know people care:embarassed:

Boxerglocker
11-09-2010, 21:32
So what exactly is your issue then?

alank2
11-09-2010, 21:33
Hi,

I definitely agree with the idea of getting a good reloading book and spending some reading it cover to cover. What cartridge are you going to start with? Some are more forgiving than others. Post what load you plan to start with too (bullet type/weight, powder type, charge weigh you are going to start with, overall length, and primer type) and guys here can check it against known load data to help.

Good luck,

Alan

97XJ_Sport
11-09-2010, 23:25
So what exactly is your issue then?

Nothing really for now since I found the manual for the dies, but thanks everyone for the advice.

chris in va
11-09-2010, 23:29
Yeah, you need rhino skin on this board. Some great information to be had, but quite a few unforgiving types like to think they're above making mistakes and project that on the new guys.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 02:09
Yeah, you need rhino skin on this board. Some great information to be had, but quite a few unforgiving types like to think they're above making mistakes and project that on the new guys.

I don't think that is it chris, more like several of us have done a ton of work to learn this craft & many newbs take it very, very lightly. Like putting together little potential bombs is something done while watching tv & drinking beer (no ****, a guy on the Sigforum had a KB w/ a dbl of TG). No, it's not rocket science but really, no one has any business trying to reload w/o reading at least a reloading manual, bare min.
Discalimer out of the way, FWIW, starting out w/ lead bullets is an uphill climb IMO. There are several little things to get right if you want the best results shooting lead bullets. They are NOT plug & play, very little data exists for them & the varied profiles makes getting OAL correct for specific powder charges difficult & there is always the leading issue. IMO, put the lead bullets away. Load 1000 plated or preferably jacketed to get the reloading process under control. Then you can introduce some variables like lead bullets for which no data exists.

steve4102
11-10-2010, 06:18
Anyway's I'm using Lee dies from the deluxe pistol set and blue dot for the powder, Alliant's recommended load for now, starline brass and CCI large pistol primers. I'm also using Oregon Trail laser-cast bullets

Please explain what you mean by "Alliant's recommended Load"??? Alliant load data lists only a MAX charge. In their "Warning" page they ask that you reduce the charge listed by 10% and work up. Please do not "Start" with Alliant's listed loads.

Also, Loading lead is not the same as loading Jacketed.

PCJim
11-10-2010, 08:02
Anyway's I'm using Lee dies from the deluxe pistol set and blue dot for the powder, Alliant's recommended load for now, starline brass and CCI large pistol primers.

I will second this question regarding your interpretation of reloading data. Please tell us that you ARE working your loads up from starting recommendations and not from the MAXIMUM charge listed as was determined by Alliant's using testing apparatus which you do not have access to.

PCJim
11-10-2010, 08:08
I don't think that is it chris, more like several of us have done a ton of work to learn this craft & many newbs take it very, very lightly. Like putting together little potential bombs is something done while watching tv & drinking beer (no ****, a guy on the Sigforum had a KB w/ a dbl of TG). No, it's not rocket science but really, no one has any business trying to reload w/o reading at least a reloading manual, bare min.


Fred, I too wonder how some people are able to survive life after having read that thread on SF. That poster must have really scared his guardian angel.

97XJ_Sport
11-10-2010, 09:36
I will second this question regarding your interpretation of reloading data. Please tell us that you ARE working your loads up from starting recommendations and not from the MAXIMUM charge listed as was determined by Alliant's using testing apparatus which you do not have access to.

Alliant recommends to start with 11.6 gr., I looked at handload.com wihich recommended to first start with 9.4gr, these are all using jacketed bullets though.

steve4102
11-10-2010, 10:18
Alliant recommends to start with 11.6 gr., I looked at handload.com wihich recommended to first start with 9.4gr, these are all using jacketed bullets though.

What Grain bullet and where did you get this Alliant data?

Alliant data lists ONLY MAX you have to do the math to find a "Start" charge.

Max for the 180gr is 11gr of Blue Dot, reduced by 10% = START charge of 9.9gr.

Max for the 165gr is 11.5gr of Blue Dot, Reduced by 10% = 10.4gr START charge.

Max for the 155gr is 12.0gr of Blue Dot, reduce by 10% = 10.8gr Start charge.

Be careful and be safe!

97XJ_Sport
11-10-2010, 13:23
What Grain bullet and where did you get this Alliant data?

Alliant data lists ONLY MAX you have to do the math to find a "Start" charge.

Max for the 180gr is 11gr of Blue Dot, reduced by 10% = START charge of 9.9gr.

Max for the 165gr is 11.5gr of Blue Dot, Reduced by 10% = 10.4gr START charge.

Max for the 155gr is 12.0gr of Blue Dot, reduce by 10% = 10.8gr Start charge.

Be careful and be safe!

sorry, 180gr. bullet, I'm using handloading.com's recommended starting load of 9.4gr's of BLue dot.

ilgunguygt
11-10-2010, 13:36
While I will agree, that is a good place to start, do not take handloads.com data as fact. Some of it will be from manuals, but not all that say they are froma manual are. I have crosschecked data sometimes with manuals I have and they arent in there. Also, there are some gross overloads at times posted on there by people out of ignorance or for thier own entertainment. I look at it frequently, then double check the data I find, every single time. Just wanted to throw that out there, in case you didnt know.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 13:50
Alliant recommends to start with 11.6 gr., I looked at handload.com wihich recommended to first start with 9.4gr, these are all using jacketed bullets though.
WHERE? http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/recipedetail.aspx?gtypeid=1&weight=180&shellid=30&bulletid=42
I see 11gr as a MAX & for jacketed bullet. See, this is the issue using the inernet w/o knowledge of what you are doing. As already noted, lead bullet do NOT load like jacketed. One does NOT start w/ max data, but must reduce it. While I like & use Handloads.com for cross ref, my data comes from vetted sources, printed manuals or pwoder manuf data. I NEVER take data off an internet site w/o backing down 10% & working it back up.:dunno:

PCJim
11-10-2010, 14:15
XJ, may I recommend that you start off with a starting charge of 9.9gr (Alliant's published 11.0 max reduced by 10%), and work your way up. Make 5 rounds at each of say 9.9, 10.2, 10.5 and 10.8. Before firing those rounds, read either in your loading manuals or from the internet the usual suspect signs of overpressure. With those signs in mind, begin firing your test rounds and examine each round carefully, especially those from the higher loads. If you do not see any signs in any of those stepped tests, then make up some at 11.0 if that is your preference (hot loads). When you fire that first round, examine it carefully before firing any more.

Keep in mind that hot loads will greatly reduce your case life as well as exert a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on both your firearm and your body. If you find a comfortable, accurate load below the maximum charge listed by Alliant, stay with it. There really is no need to load to maximum all the time.

Be very careful and safe.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 15:27
XJ, may I recommend that you start off with a starting charge of 9.9gr (Alliant's published 11.0 max reduced by 10%), and work your way up. Make 5 rounds at each of say 9.9, 10.2, 10.5 and 10.8. Before firing those rounds, read either in your loading manuals or from the internet the usual suspect signs of overpressure. With those signs in mind, begin firing your test rounds and examine each round carefully, especially those from the higher loads. If you do not see any signs in any of those stepped tests, then make up some at 11.0 if that is your preference (hot loads). When you fire that first round, examine it carefully before firing any more.

Keep in mind that hot loads will greatly reduce your case life as well as exert a lot of unnecessary wear and tear on both your firearm and your body. If you find a comfortable, accurate load below the maximum charge listed by Alliant, stay with it. There really is no need to load to maximum all the time.

Be very careful and safe.

Keep in mind he is using lead bullets. Using lead bullets w/ higher jacketed powder charges can put you seriously over pressure.:shocked:

97XJ_Sport
11-10-2010, 16:25
I'm going to start by using 9.4 gr's which is slightly less than 10% of the maximum.

PCJim
11-10-2010, 17:09
Keep in mind he is using lead bullets. Using lead bullets w/ higher jacketed powder charges can put you seriously over pressure.:shocked:

Fred, thanks for calling that out. I had missed/forgot that particular and VERY IMPORTANT aspect to his stated reloading components.

I'm going to start by using 9.4 gr's which is slightly less than 10% of the maximum.

XJ, those charge weights I stated will be quite stiff and very much possibly over max for a lead bullet. You might want to start off at 9.0 and work your way up. I don't think I'd try to go past 9.9gr max, and would want a chronograph even approaching that level.

Be careful.

dudel
11-10-2010, 17:16
Well, I was hesitant but did do him a favor by posting setup instructions. I can see some scenarios where you could obtain dies without instructions, but every reloading manual pretty much covers the generalities of doing so.

Yeah, but every vendor also has instructions available online.

dudel
11-10-2010, 17:20
Discalimer out of the way, FWIW, starting out w/ lead bullets is an uphill climb IMO. There are several little things to get right if you want the best results shooting lead bullets. They are NOT plug & play, very little data exists for them & the varied profiles makes getting OAL correct for specific powder charges difficult & there is always the leading issue. IMO, put the lead bullets away. Load 1000 plated or preferably jacketed to get the reloading process under control. Then you can introduce some variables like lead bullets for which no data exists.

+1 on the lead projectiles. The other thing that throws new loaders with lead is that the lube tends to build up in the seater and slowly decrease your OAL (and increase your pressure). Just something else to watch out for with lead vs jacketed.

dudel
11-10-2010, 17:25
I'm going to start by using 9.4 gr's which is slightly less than 10% of the maximum.

What OAL are you loading to? You found the right projectile weight; do you have the same profile? It will make a difference on your bearing surface (and pressure).

Try to keep the OAL as long as possible on your first loads. Shorter OAL will increase your pressure. Sometimes very dramatically. (and not in a good way).

Be safe.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 20:28
+1 on the lead projectiles. The other thing that throws new loaders with lead is that the lube tends to build up in the seater and slowly decrease your OAL (and increase your pressure). Just something else to watch out for with lead vs jacketed.

It's just one more little thing that a newb doesn't need to worry about. The OP is already making a crucial mistake using jacketed bullet data directly for a lead bullet. In a low pressure round like the 45acp, probably not an issue. In a high pressure round like the 10mm, tread very softly on the way ot the top end.