How do you load for a round with no data? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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XDRoX
11-09-2010, 23:52
I decided I want to start loading for a rifle that I don't shoot very often because of the price of ammo. The rifle is a Steyr m95. I picked it up on sale a while back for $59. I thought I got a deal until I paid for ammo:faint:


I have some brass, Graf's sells the necessary 205gr bullets. All I need is some load data. I looked in 4 of my manuals and IMR's online data resource and got nothing:dunno:

The round is 8x56r Hungarian.
http://www.surplusrifle.com/steyrm95/graphics/s/cartridge.jpg

So what do you guys do when there is no data?:dunno:

At this point I'm willing to start taking guesses on how much powder to use.

I do have some factory ammo that I could pull, but then I'd be guessing on the type of powder. But if I need to take some pictures of the powder, so we could all guess, that would be fun as well.

Of course if someone has some actual data from a manual, that would be preferable.

Thanks

Boxerglocker
11-09-2010, 23:55
How do you load for a round with no data?

Ask Fred :supergrin:

XDRoX
11-10-2010, 00:01
How do you load for a round with no data?

Ask Fred :supergrin:

It's too late to phone him, so I decided to post it:supergrin:

Boxerglocker
11-10-2010, 00:10
So what about dies...never heard of that round?

hoffy
11-10-2010, 00:49
Lyman should have it, if not, Load Data . com, but it costs, well worth it to me. Also IIRC the bullet diameter is .329, not the standard .323", but I have known people that loaded cast bullets for it. Years ago there was a bunch of nazi ammo in galvanized tins that still shot, but have not seen it for a few years(but have not been looking). Data is out there, just a little harder to find. I started loading for 7.62 Nagant revolver(a bring back dated 1937, probably the creepiest gun I have) in the '80s, but 30 carbine bullets work well in it and fiocchi makes ammo. Projects like this are fun. Good luck, be careful. On really scary loads/guns when I worked at a gun shop years ago, we would lash a rifle butt to the bead of a tire, and the fore stock too(something that will give with the recoil) , and fire with a string.

I think with the Powley computer if you knew capacity and pressures you could find a load, but that was old school to me and I am old.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 01:38
Many of the old 8mm service rounds varied quite a bit. First, I would slug the bore. It could be anywhere from 0.320"-0.330". If you want to purchase QuickLoads, it's the Powley COmp of this century. Then I would measure case volumn. Find a round in the books that has a sim case size & shape, the 7.62x54 Russian is close. Then you can use starting data w/ the heaviest bullet & work up w/ the chronograph & measuring case head expansion vs a factory fired round.
Yes, it's spooky, go slow, use starting charges & work up. There are a few guys loading w/ lead bullets over on Castbullets, here is a link that will get you closer.http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=9279 It's also close to a 33 WInchester round, but without actula case specs or a case to measure, I'm guessing. There are several books; Cartridges of the World & The Handloaders Manual of cartridge Conversions that will have some info, but they are not cheap books & you won;t get a ton of use out of them. Another link where someone w/ some exp was loading for it. THis has some good stuff. http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26899
The guy breaks down a round; 0.330" bullet, 50gr+ of powder, probably medium-slow burner like RL19 or IMR4831. That puts it really close to the 7.62x54 w/ a 220gr bullet. It is a more advanced handloading adventure than just using book data, but like a wildcat round, it can be done.

EL_NinO619
11-10-2010, 03:20
Sounds exciting, but a little risky. I think you should wait till Fred comes down for that one. But if not, well use the method "tire to fire".

boredstupid
11-10-2010, 03:40
The Lee dies come with some data.

steve4102
11-10-2010, 07:10
As stated above, Lee sells dies for the 8x56R Austrian-Hungarian ( 8mm Hungarian M31) and it should come with load data. Maybe the Lee manual has data as well?

PCJim
11-10-2010, 08:15
My laymans approach while thinking of how I might approach your dilemma was pretty much what Fred later posted. The approach he described sure appears sound. If still concerned, a lead sled and a ten foot section of twine might become part of your range staples. :cool:

XDRoX
11-10-2010, 08:29
Thanks for replies and ideas. I think I'll go ahead and order the dies and bullets from Grafs. If the dies don't come with any data, then I'll follow your instructions Fred, thanks.

Justin, could you look in your Lee manual and see if there's any data?

Like Fred said, the round is very similar to 7.62x54R. I think I even read once that you could reshape 7.62x54R brass and use it for 8x56R. I'll take a picture of the two rounds side by side later today and post it.

Clay1
11-10-2010, 08:54
http://www.surplusrifle.com/steyrm95/ammunition.asp

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4249.html

Just passing along info, I take no responsibility for the accuracy of the data: http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=270&sid=42f0fb25a3430f68acb35cd512dd6d66

Be safe and have fun with the project.

Rick

XDRoX
11-10-2010, 09:02
http://www.surplusrifle.com/steyrm95/ammunition.asp

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,4249.html

Just passing along info, I take no responsibility for the accuracy of the data: http://www.yesterdaysweapons.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=270&sid=42f0fb25a3430f68acb35cd512dd6d66

Be safe and have fun with the project.

Rick

Thanks Clay, the first two I knew about, but the 3rd link has a lot of good data.

EL_NinO619
11-10-2010, 11:53
Well I have IMR 4198. Let's load her up. I still want to clean that gun and then fire from a tire.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 13:58
Thanks for replies and ideas. I think I'll go ahead and order the dies and bullets from Grafs. If the dies don't come with any data, then I'll follow your instructions Fred, thanks.

Justin, could you look in your Lee manual and see if there's any data?

Like Fred said, the round is very similar to 7.62x54R. I think I even read once that you could reshape 7.62x54R brass and use it for 8x56R. I'll take a picture of the two rounds side by side later today and post it.
Using the slower powders, heavier bullet data, the slightly larger bore, you are pretty safe w/ starting loads. Finding proper bullets will be tough. You may have to start casting for that one.

Openroadracer
11-10-2010, 15:10
This website has a little info.

http://www.reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=533

EL_NinO619
11-10-2010, 15:14
Fred. Is this round similar to the 8mm Lebel. It looks very similar but the bullet diameter is .323 and case oal 1.967. Do you think we could use this load data to start with.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 15:25
Fred. Is this round similar to the 8mm Lebel. It looks very similar but the bullet diameter is .323 and case oal 1.967. Do you think we could use this load data to start with.
I though about the Lebel too, but didn't look up case dims. It all comes down to case volumn & bullet wt vs bore dia. What is Chris using for bullets?

EL_NinO619
11-10-2010, 15:36
Not sure, I'm sure he will chime in. But the case cap for the Lebel is 4.10cc. Not sure what the cap for the 8x56R is. They look identical except the Lebel is a tad smaller.

XDRoX
11-10-2010, 15:59
Here are the bullets I am going to get:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/925

I assume they will work. The factory Hornady ammo that I have been shooting out of the rifle uses these same bullets and they worked fine.

fredj338
11-10-2010, 16:50
Here are the bullets I am going to get:
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/category/categoryId/925

The factory Hornady ammo that I have been shooting out of the rifle uses these same bullets and they worked fine.
Cool, I assume they will work. I would be comfortable using starting Russian loads for the 220gr bullets. That, the slightly larger bore & a slower powder like 4350, IMR4831, RL19, will give you a margin of safety. Maybe someone can give you a Russian case volumn for comparison. If you put an eye out though, don't call me.:wow:

XDRoX
11-10-2010, 16:57
If you put an eye out though, don't call me.:wow:

lol, What I'm most worried about is the bolt flying back into my face:wow:
It's a straight pull. I'm not sure how it works, but I'm going to figure it out before I shoot it again.

csaw44
11-10-2010, 17:28
Here is another site you can check for information.

http://www.loaddata.com