Carry chambered? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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danbaum
11-11-2010, 09:47
I have been a revolver guy my whole life, and just switched to a Glock 19 after getting two days of excellent training and realizing I could shoot the Glock better (to say nothing of more copiously) than my old Detective Special. I have a CCW and am carrying the Glock in a Galco Stow-n-Go IWB holster. Here's my situation: Carrying the pistol with a round in the chamber freaks me out. I worry that my flesh pushing against the soft holster will somehow depress that little trigger safety and nudge the trigger back. I find myself walking around with my hips thrust foward, flinching away from the gun. Actually, I only did that for about ten minutes before retreating to a men's room, unchambering the round, and putting the gun back in its holster with a full mag but empty chamber. I could carry Israeli style, I suppose, and draw-and-rack if it comes to that, but I just saw a training video in which a woman carrying Israeli style would have been killed by a knife had the attack been real. I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.

FriscoCHL
11-11-2010, 09:53
Am I being silly?

Yes. If you carry in a decent holster that covers the trigger, you will be fine. just be contious of clothing and your finger while holstering. its the same thing as carrying your DA revolver with the hammer down.

I carry my 19 and 26 ready to go, with one in the pipe. and have never thought twice about it.

eta: welcome to the forum!!

Dingus
11-11-2010, 09:57
To gain confidence, do this:

Take your G19 and holster to the range.

Place your loaded, chambered G19 into the holster (not attached to your belt).

Point the holstered G19 downrange at a target and try to fire it without removing it from the holster.

-gunut-
11-11-2010, 10:01
You just have to get comfortable with it. Carry without one in the pipe for a while to get used to it. Notice if the trigger is ever depressed. With any decent holster you will be fine.

Glock27NY
11-11-2010, 10:04
Ive carried different glocks with a round chambered in iwb/owb holsters and never had a problem with it. If soft iwb holster freaks you out then get a nice, quality leather or kydex holster. You could also chamber a snap cap, holster it, do your daily routine around the house and then check if trigger was pulled. BTW.. Glocks have a 5.5lbs trigger pull so I doubt it will discharge from your love handle rubbing on it.

redbaron007
11-11-2010, 10:04
It's a mental block you will have to outgrow. Just remember, about the only way you can deactivate the safety mechanism is with your finger. Keep your finger off of it and your should be good to go.

Find a holster that protects the trigger and you won't have any problems. You'll be fine! :supergrin:



:wavey:


red

Agent6-3/8
11-11-2010, 10:11
Yes, you're being silly. However, it is not unusual for some new to guns like Glocks to be concerned about carrying a round chambered. (just like some people freakout about a cocked and locked 1911) Rest assured the gun will not go off and shoot you in the ass.

The basic truth of the matter is that a gun not carried in ready to fire condition is nothing more than a paperweight. No matter how fast one is, the time it takes to charge the weapon would be much better spent putting rounds down range and into your attacker. Trying to chamber a round at the moment of truth is much like trying to put your seatbelt on when you see you are about to crash.

My advise is to carry your Glock around you house without a round in the chamber until you get comfortable with it. Until you are comfortable carrying your Glock chambered, stick with your wheelguns for CCW.

danbaum
11-11-2010, 10:13
All terrific replies. Thank you very much.

Adam5
11-11-2010, 10:14
To gain confidence, do this:

Take your G19 and holster to the range.

Place your loaded, chambered G19 into the holster (not attached to your belt).

Point the holstered G19 downrange at a target and try to fire it without removing it from the holster.

This is good advice.

If your concern is the gun firing while holstered, this will alleviate that concern.

danbaum
11-11-2010, 10:14
This is a particularly great idea. Thank you very much.

hardcorp
11-11-2010, 10:20
If you don't you're doing it wrong.

dregotglock
11-11-2010, 10:25
silly? NO - any responsible gun owner should have some reservation until enough information has been provided.

I personally have always carried glocks with one in the chamber. Never had any issues or concerns once I understood function of the glock safe action. Simply put - use safe gun handling skills and you will be fine.

justdriftin
11-11-2010, 10:29
To gain confidence, do this:

Take your G19 and holster to the range.

Place your loaded, chambered G19 into the holster (not attached to your belt).

Point the holstered G19 downrange at a target and try to fire it without removing it from the holster.

Or you can place your unloaded G19 into the holster, go to a safe place, and try to dry fire it while still in the holster.

Cream Soda Kid
11-11-2010, 10:37
Ive carried different glocks with a round chambered in iwb/owb holsters and never had a problem with it. If soft iwb holster freaks you out then get a nice, quality leather or kydex holster. You could also chamber a snap cap, holster it, do your daily routine around the house and then check if trigger was pulled. BTW.. Glocks have a 5.5lbs trigger pull so I doubt it will discharge from your love handle rubbing on it.
Ditto this!

Sonnytoo
11-11-2010, 10:47
To gain confidence, do this:

Take your G19 and holster to the range.

Place your loaded, chambered G19 into the holster (not attached to your belt).

Point the holstered G19 downrange at a target and try to fire it without removing it from the holster.

Let's make it simpler. Do it at home. No rounds in the gun at all. Just draw the slide back to make sure it's cocked with the trigger forward. Then stick it in your holster and try to "click" the trigger.

Sonnytoo

hamster
11-11-2010, 10:49
I had the same concerns when I first started to carry my Glock. I'd recommend a Hard Kydex holster like a comp-tac infidel. It completely wraps the pistol in hard plastic so there is no chance of anything flexing into the trigger guard. Not only that, but the holster allows you to "re-holster" off body which also greatly reduces the odds of clothing or something getting caught in the trigger guard.

I don't like the generic soft holsters I've seen.

fuzzy03cls
11-11-2010, 10:55
I never carried a gun before my G27. I carried it un-chambered for a few weeks till I was comfortable. Then I chambered a round. A few weeks went by & I realized I was safe. Carry chambered ever since.
I have no problems shooting a few light hoops, kneeling on my back under a desk, going up & down ladders, playing catch, golfing, hitting in a batting cage, & hell I even bowled a full game while carrying.

chad1972
11-11-2010, 10:56
I also felt the same way. I used one of those saf-t blocks that can be pushed out of the trigger real easy. I now carry without it, with one in the pipe. As long as you use some sort of holster that covers the trigger, and keep your finger out of the trigger area, leave the 19 in the holster, unless its needed, you wont have a problem. These Glocks have been beat to death and not once has the gun " fired " without some sort of trigger manipulation.

cole
11-11-2010, 11:14
... I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.

Silly? No. It can take time to get comfortable with a chambered Glock. Some folks carry Condition 3 ("Israeli" style). Just know it won't fire in the holster or until you pull the trigger. It's like a revolver with a lighter trigger.

Chambered while holstered? Yes, I do. Always.

Enjoy your Glock.

CrossEyedShooter
11-11-2010, 11:15
I just grabbed a shirt from the laundry pile. I ran a corner thru the trigger and around the other side up the grip. Holstered the Glock like that into kydex holster.

Pulling the shirt out hard fired the empty weapon. Pulling with same force as a shirt that moves while walking - no trigger depression.

Any other scenario (i.e. shirt only partially thru the trigger in various positions) will not depress the trigger.

The morale of the story - don't tuck your shirt into the glock trigger, and you should be fine. I think that anyone with an IWB holster is naturally wary of clothing in the holster, so I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought.

As far as my love handles - not an issue - Kydex holsters that cover the trigger mean no amount of chub will have any hope of getting lodged into the trigger guard & depressing the trigger. NOTHING can depress the trigger on a weapon in kydex, unless you tuck an object into the holster with the pistol, or you pull the gun out of the holster.

freespirit34
11-11-2010, 11:18
If you don't carry chambered, it is just a club. Do get comfortable first.

JoNxMeMpHiS
11-11-2010, 11:21
It's called the 'Search" button.

stanley
11-11-2010, 11:23
every day!

glockerbob
11-11-2010, 11:30
Im a fat boy...been carring since 96 and never had a discharge cause of the love handles

stroker
11-11-2010, 11:31
oh crap not again

NHmike
11-11-2010, 11:32
Not chambered, then you might as well use it as a strilking tool. It must be chambered, you will fell more comfy with it as time goes on. Good luck!

hamster
11-11-2010, 11:47
I just grabbed a shirt from the laundry pile. I ran a corner thru the trigger and around the other side up the grip. Holstered the Glock like that into kydex holster.

Pulling the shirt out hard fired the empty weapon. Pulling with same force as a shirt that moves while walking - no trigger depression.

Any other scenario (i.e. shirt only partially thru the trigger in various positions) will not depress the trigger.

The morale of the story - don't tuck your shirt into the glock trigger, and you should be fine. I think that anyone with an IWB holster is naturally wary of clothing in the holster, so I wouldn't give it a 2nd thought.

As far as my love handles - not an issue - Kydex holsters that cover the trigger mean no amount of chub will have any hope of getting lodged into the trigger guard & depressing the trigger. NOTHING can depress the trigger on a weapon in kydex, unless you tuck an object into the holster with the pistol, or you pull the gun out of the holster.

I once saw a post either here or on another forum where a police officer shot himself in the leg because the drawstring from his pants or windbreaker somehow found its way into this trigger-guard upon re-holstering. It is most definitely something to look out for and do EXTRA slow.

chukb
11-11-2010, 11:58
Point the holstered G19 downrange at a target and try to fire it without removing it from the holster.
sounds like good entertainment for the other people at the range.:rofl:

hatidua
11-11-2010, 12:01
Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds?

Daily.

It initially takes some getting used to (coming from a 1911 with manual safety), but you do get used to it, especially if your holster has retention adjustment.

brisk21
11-11-2010, 12:05
well, you could always carry it empty for a few years. Then count the number of times the trigger gets pulled inside your holster while on your person. Think of it like that. Just don't leave the gun laying around. Keep it on you in your holster or locked in a safe and you'll be good to go.

myesque
11-11-2010, 12:11
One in the tube. All day....

mrsurfboard
11-11-2010, 12:15
1. Carrying unchambered is pretty much useless, 2. if you are worried about your holster not protecting the gun from going off, then you should get a new holster.

teeuu
11-11-2010, 12:29
I know this is blasphemy but...

If you're really uncomfortable packing a Glock with one up the spout you might want to consider trading it in on a Ruger SR9. A nice Glock-like pistol with a manual safety.

I think that you must be completely comfortable with a gun you are going to trust your life to.

As for me, My 17 & 23 ride IWB (yep, even the 17) or OWB always with chambers loaded.

dkf
11-11-2010, 12:30
Possibly get another IWB holster with a hard Kydex body that surrounds the pistol? The hard Kydex will keep you from bumping the trigger accidently when holstered. Luckily Glocks are very common so you have a LOT of good holsters to choose from.

Cheytac
11-11-2010, 12:33
LEOs carry chambered. Is your Glock any different than yours? I always have 1 ready to head downrange... :wavey:

Steel Head
11-11-2010, 12:44
Yes. If you carry in a decent holster that covers the trigger, you will be fine. just be contious of clothing and your finger while holstering. its the same thing as carrying your DA revolver with the hammer down.

I carry my 19 and 26 ready to go, with one in the pipe. and have never thought twice about it.

eta: welcome to the forum!!

This is what I would say.

Zertek
11-11-2010, 14:37
Yes. If you carry in a decent holster that covers the trigger, you will be fine. just be contious of clothing and your finger while holstering. its the same thing as carrying your DA revolver with the hammer down.

I carry my 19 and 26 ready to go, with one in the pipe. and have never thought twice about it.

eta: welcome to the forum!!

:agree: and btw :welcome: to GT

RDW
11-11-2010, 14:42
YES! I carry a pistol - Not a Club.

hackinpeat
11-11-2010, 15:07
I always carry with one in the pipe...

Do not use a soft holster, the holster is your safety, find some stiff leather.

bassin98
11-11-2010, 15:13
:deadhorse:

awq134
11-11-2010, 16:19
You just have to get comfortable with it. Carry without one in the pipe for a while to get used to it. Notice if the trigger is ever depressed. With any decent holster you will be fine.
this is what i did... made sure the chamber was empty with the trigger in the forward position and a full magazine. I carried it like this for 2 weeks and checked every night to see if the trigger had moved, and as i was hoping, i didnt' budge!

KenB22
11-11-2010, 17:05
I'll take the heat for trying to make the opposite argument. I carry in condition 3. Early on, I carried with one in the pipe since I didn't want to carry a "brick." It worked fine. As I carried more and more I changed my mind. I have to wear dress pants to work that fit and I often go to many places during a day that do not allow me to carry inside. I found myself holstering and unholstering sometimes 3-4-5 times per day. I am a criminal attorney. I have to dress for work. I go into bad neighborhoods where some people get nervous when they see guns. I meet with prosecutors who get nervous when they see people with guns. I go into office buildings (not posted) where people get nervous when they see guns. Its my reality. I have a G19 at home by the nightstand, not in a holster, that is in condition 3 because it's the only way my wife will allow it in the house. She is not comfortable any other way. I'll leave the possible argument that putting a nightstand gun in a holster or case or safe just loses precious seconds over my setup for another day.

If I carry at all, I have to carry IWB in a pair of pants that fit. My gun is covered by a shirt that must also completely cover the gun. I must tuck my shirt in. Wearing a hard covered holster made the gun print too much. Carrying in a holster that had a retention strap was just one more thing to think about when practicing drawing. I never worried about my gun going off when I sat at a desk or drove a car or anything like that. After much carrying my focus narrowed to drawing in an emergency. I can't carry OWB or with the gun exposed at all. To get at my gun, I have to first untuck my shirt. That's the reality. I found during extensive practice at an outdoor range over many sessions that I was much faster untucking and ripping the gun out of my holster and racking the slide Israeli style than I was with one in the pipe. Trying to imagine how I might feel and react in an emergency, I simply slowed down too much worrying about shooting myself with a round chambered and my shirt tucked in. That's the moment that was of concern to me when deciding which was more advantageous TO ME. With my daytime setup requirement and my nightstand setup, it made more sense TO ME to carry in condition 3. Finding I was faster when I really pushed myself drawing from a holster had the added benefit of making my training consistent for both home and outdoor scenario's.

I also try and practice situational awareness. If I'm in an area in my car that I'm not comfortable, I'll chamber a round and put my G19 in the center console. If its after work and I can wear jeans and carry OWB with a sweatshirt over it, I may chamber a round but I'd hope my training would take over and I'd still rack the slide before shooting. I haven't fired a magazine in 3 years where I didn't start the process by racking the slide unless I'm practicing shooting multiple mags in a row. I'm aware that there MAY be a circumstance where having to rack the slide is a disadvantage but FOR ME Condition 3 was the best way to go. I use snap caps and practice racking the slide using my belt or shoe in case I only have one arm free. I have tried both methods and for me, condition 3 was the way to go.

Melissa5
11-11-2010, 17:18
I've carried in a Stow-n-go for the past year without any mishaps. No worries. :cool:

Jim S.
11-11-2010, 17:30
I would like to say that if it makes you nervous to carry a Glock with one in the chamber then it would be silly for you to do so.
You have to be comfortable carrying a weapon. Otherwise you will stop carrying it.
Glocks are probably one of the safest guns to carry with one in the chamber.
Learn about the Glock safe action and carry it unchambered until you are confident in it.
Getting a gun with a manual safety probably won't make you feel any safer.
Glocks do not fire themselves.
people who accidently fire a Glock more than likely pulled the trigger in some way.
When you go to the range and shoot your Glock, feel how far the trigger has to travel to make it shoot.
Feel how hard you have to pull on that trigger.
Learn your gun and gain the confidence to carry it with a round in the chamber.
Until then carry it unchambered.
Just be sure you know how to rack a round in there quickly and confidently because it is an extra step that is not considered a good thing in a very bad situation.

ray glock
11-11-2010, 17:39
It is all about knowing your firearm, how to use it and self-discipline. You might call it ...Gun Control.

fmfdocglock
11-11-2010, 18:34
For a couple of months after I got my G30 I carried without a round chambered. I was trained in the Israeli draw when I was in the service.

I gradually started carrying with one in the chamber, and now that is how I carry.

Getting a first rate holster like the Crossbreed Supertuck that completely covered the trigger and stayed in place definitely helped.

Still doesn't change the fact that you have to pay attention the trigger doesn't get caught on anything.

robbyg1
11-11-2010, 18:49
http://www.youtube.com/user/limalife#p/u

SCC
11-11-2010, 19:18
I once saw a post either here or on another forum where a police officer shot himself in the leg because the drawstring from his pants or windbreaker somehow found its way into this trigger-guard upon re-holstering. It is most definitely something to look out for and do EXTRA slow. I posted them on here :whistling:

powder86
11-11-2010, 19:22
I have been a revolver guy my whole life, and just switched to a Glock 19 after getting two days of excellent training and realizing I could shoot the Glock better (to say nothing of more copiously) than my old Detective Special. I have a CCW and am carrying the Glock in a Galco Stow-n-Go IWB holster. Here's my situation: Carrying the pistol with a round in the chamber freaks me out. I worry that my flesh pushing against the soft holster will somehow depress that little trigger safety and nudge the trigger back. I find myself walking around with my hips thrust foward, flinching away from the gun. Actually, I only did that for about ten minutes before retreating to a men's room, unchambering the round, and putting the gun back in its holster with a full mag but empty chamber. I could carry Israeli style, I suppose, and draw-and-rack if it comes to that, but I just saw a training video in which a woman carrying Israeli style would have been killed by a knife had the attack been real. I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.

yes you're being silly. that trigger will not go off without you putting your finger on it and pulling it. i carry a 19 in that same holster. it's not gonna go bang without you pulling the trigger. also, most of the folks i know that cc a glock, carry IWB with one in the chamber.

pacountryboy
11-11-2010, 19:31
The idea of no "safety" on glocks is the reason I didn't buy one first. Started with a SR9 with the manual thumb safety. Carried it one in the chamber and safe on. I bought a LCP and to ease my mind with it, I carried the SR9 without one in the chamber and and safety off. After I realized that the trigger wasn't being pulled(by clothing or anything catching it) until I pulled it, I carried my LCP, then shortly after bought my glock. Now it's always one in the chamber. Try what people have been telling you and just watch your trigger at the end of the day. Soon that feeling of uncertainty will pass.

Country

danbaum
11-12-2010, 09:08
Let's make it simpler. Do it at home. No rounds in the gun at all. Just draw the slide back to make sure it's cocked with the trigger forward. Then stick it in your holster and try to "click" the trigger.

Sonnytoo

This is what i tried, and you're right; I couldn't make the firing pin fall. I massaged the outside of the holster in every conceivable way, and never tripped the trigger. Thank you.

Warp
11-12-2010, 09:21
<--Always chambered for on my person carry.

diablo_svr
11-12-2010, 11:25
I carried unchambered when I first started carrying (G19 BTW) and nothing ever caused the triggered to be accidentally pulled. Also, since it wasn't chambered, I was never cautious in any way when I holstered it or any activity that I performed while it was holstered.

Then one day I just racked that puppy and have been carrying one in the pipe ever since.

Personally I think if you have any doubts, you should just carry unchambered until you prove to yourself that it's safe. At least for me, there was no other option. There's not a person in the world that would have changed my mind into carrying chambered from day one...Lack of my experience/confidence.

Warp
11-12-2010, 11:51
I carried unchambered when I first started carrying (G19 BTW) and nothing ever caused the triggered to be accidentally pulled. Also, since it wasn't chambered, I was never cautious in any way when I holstered it or any activity that I performed while it was holstered.

Then one day I just racked that puppy and have been carrying one in the pipe ever since.

Personally I think if you have any doubts, you should just carry unchambered until you prove to yourself that it's safe. At least for me, there was no other option. There's not a person in the world that would have changed my mind into carrying chambered from day one...Lack of my experience/confidence.

This violates Rule #1.

hamster
11-12-2010, 12:06
It's called the 'Search" button.

Wow. This one went off the rails fairly quickly. The OP's question was about how safe a soft-sided holster is coupled with a Glock trigger design.

I think asking if a particular type of holster is safe enough with this particular weapon is a good question. Many folks dragging out tired old mantras of "you might as well carry a hammer" really don't add to the conversation.

The question was NOT about the merits of carrying chambered.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PZCi4m7hFXQ/Sq128meuD0I/AAAAAAAAAIw/XhYM6keHjJQ/s320/hooked_on_phonics.jpg

mr.z28
11-12-2010, 12:34
yes...wouldnt carry any other way...

David Armstrong
11-12-2010, 13:21
I have been a revolver guy my whole life, and just switched to a Glock 19 after getting two days of excellent training and realizing I could shoot the Glock better (to say nothing of more copiously) than my old Detective Special.
Wise man. Allow me to take that miserable old junk of a Dick Special off your hands. I'd even be willing to give you a little money for it, since I feel so sorry about you carrying it all these years.:supergrin:
I could carry Israeli style, I suppose, and draw-and-rack if it comes to that, but I just saw a training video in which a woman carrying Israeli style would have been killed by a knife had the attack been real.
Most training videos like that are designed that way. In reality, attacks where the chamber condition would matter are so rare as to be nearly non-existent.
I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.
No, you are not being silly. If yo are uncomfortable with C1, go to C3. There really doesn't seem to be much difference between the two in real life. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, and you should decide which are important to you. I don't think you need to worry about the Glock firing in your holster, but if you are uncomfortable you really don't give up much, if anything, by going to chamber empty carry. As for who carries what, it varies. Lots of folks carry chamber loaded, lots of folks carry chamber empty.
All that nonsense about carrrying C3 means you might as well carry a club, or a brick, or you'll never be able to sue it in time, and assorted silliness plays well on the internet, but reality is that C3 was the preferred mode of carry for autoloaders for a long time in most places, and it worked out just fine. Nothing has happened to change that. If C3 makes you comfortable, carry C3 and go on about your day with the knowledge that you are just as well equipped for trouble as the next guy.

Warp
11-12-2010, 14:10
but reality is that C3 was the preferred mode of carry for autoloaders for a long time in most places

And the reason for this was...?

David Armstrong
11-12-2010, 14:23
And the reason for this was...?
Different times, different places, different reasons. Shanghai it was limited training time and resources. Israel it was commonality of training across mulltiple platforms. SAS, from what I've been told, was the safety on their Hi-Powers was tough to access. Don't know why the U.S. military did it or the Texas Rangers did it with the 1911, but I suspect it was because that was the way everybody had always done it and the didn't see any need to change what worked. I've got varying reasons myself. I'm fairly knowledgeable, but to expect me to know why each place or person reasoned a particular manner at various times all over the world is a little much, wouldn't you agree? I think the main point is that under a variety of circumstances C3 was tested, accepted, and found to work quite well over an extensive time frame.

matt c
11-12-2010, 18:58
http://www.youtube.com/user/limalife#p/u

good video....unfortunately if she had her pistol under a tucked shirt she would have been dead as well. Also...this is a good reason to learn proper withdrawal and side to side footwork. Her footwork sucks(as do most folks).

denn1911
11-12-2010, 20:17
Yes, the Stow n Go Holster is soft sided, but it definitely shouldn't have enough play to allow movement of the trigger. Carrying with a round in the chamber is a personal choice. If you're not comfortable at the present time to carrry with a round in the chamber, don't force yourself to do so. You may want to carry your pistol inside its holster around your house and property doing your everyday movements. You'll eventually become more comfortable and confident in your carry choice and begin to carrying with a round in the chamber. Remember finger discipline and be confident. Good luck- you'll be just fine.

motorcopm4
11-13-2010, 08:03
I Carry a chambered Glock on duty everyday, cover the trigger guard and dont worry about it

glockenturm
11-14-2010, 06:02
Try this.

Was given an IWB holster the other day. Kind of a semi-rigid nylon that fits the 21 and 30. About 2 seconds with it in the pants drove me nuts and I put it between my belt and pants. The thought of a loaded weapon inside my pants bothered me. It is also much better feeling and a little closer to my body and doesn't print like an OWB holster. Still have to be concious about it showing from under my garment. Even if the bottom peeks out all of my holsters fully cover the barrel so no one actually "SEES" a gun should that happen.

I carry Condition One. With the 1911 I use a holster that has a strap that fits between the hammer and slide and fully covers my ambi-thumb safeties. For the Glocks I have a holster that has a retention strap and some that don't. The one with retention is when I'm walking about in public and don't want the gun flying out should I be tackled or snatched from me.

The "strapless" is when I'm working.

RDW
11-14-2010, 15:13
I posted them on here :whistling:

There is No Prize for Speed re-holstering!

G22DaD
11-15-2010, 11:41
Personally, if I have doubts about doing something, I don't do it. If condition 3 is what makes you feel better, go with it. I ran mine in condition 3 for about a month. Then, I decided to go to condition 1. I decided that the safest place for my G22 was in the holster, and now, I carry in condition 1 in complete confidence.
The only time it goes back to condition 3 is when I go to bed. With a 5 year old that can come into the bedroom in the middle of the night--I figured the safest thing to do is clear the chamber and keep it under my pillow, as opposed to the night stand. He won't be able to lift my head and get to it w/o waking me up-y'know? Besides, he doesn't even give it a second look any more.

ChipM
11-15-2010, 12:42
I'll take the heat for trying to make the opposite argument. I carry in condition 3. Early on, I carried with one in the pipe since I didn't want to carry a "brick." It worked fine. As I carried more and more I changed my mind. I have to wear dress pants to work that fit and I often go to many places during a day that do not allow me to carry inside. I found myself holstering and unholstering sometimes 3-4-5 times per day. I am a criminal attorney. I have to dress for work. I go into bad neighborhoods where some people get nervous when they see guns. I meet with prosecutors who get nervous when they see people with guns. I go into office buildings (not posted) where people get nervous when they see guns. Its my reality. I have a G19 at home by the nightstand, not in a holster, that is in condition 3 because it's the only way my wife will allow it in the house. She is not comfortable any other way. I'll leave the possible argument that putting a nightstand gun in a holster or case or safe just loses precious seconds over my setup for another day.

If I carry at all, I have to carry IWB in a pair of pants that fit. My gun is covered by a shirt that must also completely cover the gun. I must tuck my shirt in. Wearing a hard covered holster made the gun print too much. Carrying in a holster that had a retention strap was just one more thing to think about when practicing drawing. I never worried about my gun going off when I sat at a desk or drove a car or anything like that. After much carrying my focus narrowed to drawing in an emergency. I can't carry OWB or with the gun exposed at all. To get at my gun, I have to first untuck my shirt. That's the reality. I found during extensive practice at an outdoor range over many sessions that I was much faster untucking and ripping the gun out of my holster and racking the slide Israeli style than I was with one in the pipe. Trying to imagine how I might feel and react in an emergency, I simply slowed down too much worrying about shooting myself with a round chambered and my shirt tucked in. That's the moment that was of concern to me when deciding which was more advantageous TO ME. With my daytime setup requirement and my nightstand setup, it made more sense TO ME to carry in condition 3. Finding I was faster when I really pushed myself drawing from a holster had the added benefit of making my training consistent for both home and outdoor scenario's.

I also try and practice situational awareness. If I'm in an area in my car that I'm not comfortable, I'll chamber a round and put my G19 in the center console. If its after work and I can wear jeans and carry OWB with a sweatshirt over it, I may chamber a round but I'd hope my training would take over and I'd still rack the slide before shooting. I haven't fired a magazine in 3 years where I didn't start the process by racking the slide unless I'm practicing shooting multiple mags in a row. I'm aware that there MAY be a circumstance where having to rack the slide is a disadvantage but FOR ME Condition 3 was the best way to go. I use snap caps and practice racking the slide using my belt or shoe in case I only have one arm free. I have tried both methods and for me, condition 3 was the way to go.

I notice a lot of your "off-limits" locations revolve around people being uncomfortable at the sight of a gun. Can you wear a suit? It seems that an attorney might be expected to wear a suit, and thus not raise any suspicion since nobody sees a gun.

SCmasterblaster
11-15-2010, 14:19
Back when I had a CCW in NH, I always carried chambered. BUT, I had a home-made safety device installed that held the slide back 5mm. Thusly, it totally inerted the pistol. ALSO, the device was easily and quickly removed. I have the device patented, and I am about to market it. Send me your email addresses via PM and I'll send you pictures of the neat device.

http://glocktalk.com/classifieds/showproduct.php?product=17430&title=otapin&cat=6

greenamphibious
11-15-2010, 14:31
always

Glockbuster
11-15-2010, 18:45
Back when I had a CCW in NH, I always carried chambered. BUT, I had a home-made safety device installed that held the slide back 5mm. Thusly, it totally inerted the pistol. ALSO, the device was easily and quickly removed. I have the device patented, and I am about to market it. Send me your email addresses via PM and I'll send you pictures of the neat device.

I noticed in another thread you also have connectors, and now this device, what else have you got ? post pics ?

Bradysmmrs
01-14-2012, 03:14
Glocks are incredibly designed and very safe. I would recommend carrying unchambered till you get comfortable with it, then little by little you'll get more comfortable.

Artable
08-27-2012, 09:13
All good posts on how to carry a Glock. I have had the same concerns as I carry all the time now. Glock may take a little time to get used to, but will not accidentally discharge so long as you carry in a rigid holster that covers the trigger guard. For some, the lack of an exterior thumb safety, and it's relative security or lack of, is the real issue. You have to ask yourself if an exterior thumb safety is there to prevent accidental or negligent discharge. I would contend that a thumb safety is designed primarily to prevent an accidental discharge and this is virtually a non issue for a Glock. So, negligent discharge is the real mental issue. Therefore, you need to remember and train for 2 things if you carry with one in the chamber: that you never negligently put your finger on the trigger, especially when removing or re-inserting into your holster, and be mindful that we are human beings and subject to making mistakes so when your Glock is not in your holster you should not be cavalier about handling it, just like any other gun. I don't advocate carrying a paper weight.

wjv
08-27-2012, 09:55
I carried it un-chambered for a few weeks till I was comfortable. Then I chambered a round.

Did similar when i started carrying a 1911. Carried cocked and locked without a chambered round. By the third day i realized that the hammer wasn't going to magically fall and fire the gun. Started carrying with one chambered.

Lior
08-27-2012, 10:39
At the moment I'm carrying a CZ Shadow with an empty chamber, as this gun doesn't have a block safety. Normally I carry a CZ Phantom with one in the pipe though.

PhotoFeller
08-27-2012, 10:40
Wise man. Allow me to take that miserable old junk of a Dick Special off your hands. I'd even be willing to give you a little money for it, since I feel so sorry about you carrying it all these years.:supergrin:

Most training videos like that are designed that way. In reality, attacks where the chamber condition would matter are so rare as to be nearly non-existent.

No, you are not being silly. If yo are uncomfortable with C1, go to C3. There really doesn't seem to be much difference between the two in real life. There are advantages and disadvantages to each, and you should decide which are important to you. I don't think you need to worry about the Glock firing in your holster, but if you are uncomfortable you really don't give up much, if anything, by going to chamber empty carry. As for who carries what, it varies. Lots of folks carry chamber loaded, lots of folks carry chamber empty.
All that nonsense about carrrying C3 means you might as well carry a club, or a brick, or you'll never be able to sue it in time, and assorted silliness plays well on the internet, but reality is that C3 was the preferred mode of carry for autoloaders for a long time in most places, and it worked out just fine. Nothing has happened to change that. If C3 makes you comfortable, carry C3 and go on about your day with the knowledge that you are just as well equipped for trouble as the next guy.

Thanks, David, for posting my feelings on this subject but saying it much better than I could. Our opinion goes against the popular grain, but it needs to be offered often to balance the scale for conservative concealed carry practices.

This thread did drift a bit from the OP's question, but it was worth it to elicit David's well-informed point of view.

PhotoFeller
08-27-2012, 11:09
Did similar when i started carrying a 1911. Carried cocked and locked without a chambered round. By the third day i realized that the hammer wasn't going to magically fall and fire the gun. Started carrying with one chambered.

Lots of folks gain confidence that the pistol won't "magically fail and fire", and such confidence in the weapon is probably warranted. However, the CC equation also has to consider the human element, and thats the wild card.

New gun handlers and veterans are capable of mental lapses that can result in deadly consequences regardless of the holster used. Part of that risk can be avoided with condition 3. Thats all I'm saying. The simple act of holstering without complete concentration can cause poop in the soup. It happens.

Yea, this is an over-argued topic that pops up every week in one form or another. Why do you suppose that is? I'd say its because so many people are trying to figure out what makes sense for their CC method. It's a question everyone needs to carefully think through beyond consideratipn of the "brick" and "short handled club" cliches.

TattooedGlock
08-27-2012, 12:59
If you're not going to carry your defense gun loaded, don't carry it. If you're not comfortable, take some classes, pratice, etc., get comfortable, or leave the gun toting to others.

Veedubklown
08-27-2012, 15:03
You just have to get comfortable with it. Carry without one in the pipe for a while to get used to it. Notice if the trigger is ever depressed. With any decent holster you will be fine.

This is how I broke myself of the fear of carrying C1. Also, dry fire (no ammo in the room, gun, etc) drills of draw, point in, press, reset action, reholster. Do this for 20-30 minutes (no longer, anything longer is just tiring, not helping your muscle memory), and see if you ever pull the trigger re-holstering. I'm sure your going to be fine.

PhotoFeller
08-27-2012, 15:03
If you're not going to carry your defense gun loaded, don't carry it. If you're not comfortable, take some classes, pratice, etc., get comfortable, or leave the gun toting to others.

I do leave toting to others most of the time. All I ask is, don't shoot me in the process of trying to save me. And, don't shoot me in a restroom when you're 'adjusting' your weapon before/after doing your business. Make sure your mind is 100% focused every time you handle your weapon, no matter where you are and what the circumstances may be, and we'll likely be just fine.

NEOH212
08-27-2012, 17:39
Carry chambered?

If I wasn't going to carry with one in the pipe, I wouldn't carry at all.

So to answer your question, yes. Carry with one in the chamber.

jeanderson
08-27-2012, 18:34
I have been carrying less than a week now. At first I put the gun in my laptop bag unchambered. After driving about 1 mile I thought that's pretty useless. Pulled over (no, I did not do this while driving), pulled out my G23 and racked the slide, put it back in the holster. Has been chambered ever since.

Schlitz
08-27-2012, 18:37
I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.:shakehead:

Veedubklown
08-27-2012, 18:43
I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.:shakehead:

So he removes his mag to make it condition 4, when he goes in public? I know I'm preaching to the choir here, but what's he gonna do, rack the slide in his holster and ND his leg? Offer to trade him that dangerous glock for a nice, safe hi-point, with a thumb safety. It's what a good friend would do.

dnuggett
08-27-2012, 18:46
Yea, this is an over-argued topic that pops up every week in one form or another.

In this case it was dead for a year before it came back alive. :faint:

PhotoFeller
08-27-2012, 19:32
You guys/gal haven't hammered me yet, so let me ask a question: what level of experience qualifies one for C1 carry? Put another way, should anyone with confidence to carry C1 be encouraged to do so, regardless of experience/training? I ask because the advice always given here is to carry with one in the chamber without a caveat that some level of competence is necessary.

I don't oppose C1 if the armed person is also a competent, stable, extremely cautious person. No one seems to take these qualifiers into consideration when cavalierly advising against carrying a "paperweight" or or a "brick". I'm not arguing with you guys, but I am lobbying for attaching some competence criteria to Condition 1 carry.

Smoker
08-27-2012, 19:41
wow this one has gone the same way as the other dozens of threads on the same subject...

Veedubklown
08-27-2012, 19:48
I don't oppose C1 if the armed person is also a competent, stable, extremely cautious person. No one seems to take these qualifiers into consideration when cavalierly advising against carrying a "paperweight" or or a "brick". I'm not arguing with you guys, but I am lobbying for attaching some competence criteria to Condition 1 carry.

What people are saying here, is if you're not confident enough to carry your weapon in a way that's usable, perhaps you should consider alternative ways of self defense that you would be comfortable with. Pepper spray may be better for you. At least then you'll have a better chance against a threat who has taken you by surprise. You need 2 hands or alot of practice to rack your slide properly, so you don't cause a jam. What's to say the threat doesn't see that weapon, and take it from you before you can make it deployable? You run the risk of making yourself a danger to you, rather than defending yourself.

The decision of competency is upon the individual, and no one here can judge that for you. If you've already made the conscious decision to possess a firearm, and carry it, then absolutely you should be proficient in its use. That's more understood and implied than openly stated. If that's not something you're willing to do, and carry it in a state that's ready, then you should leave it home, and carry something else.

Think about it this way. Guy comes up and says, "Can I get some change for the bus, man?" You shine him on, and walk away, he sneaks up behind you and throws you down. Before you hit the ground, he's on top of you, why? Because he's effin crazy, and there's nut jobs all over. You need both of your hands to stop this dude from pummeling you, how are you going to draw your weapon, rack the slide, and stop that threat?

dnuggett
08-27-2012, 19:54
You guys/gal haven't hammered me yet, so let me ask a question: what level of experience qualifies one for C1 carry? Put another way, should anyone with confidence to carry C1 be encouraged to do so, regardless of experience/training? I ask because the advice always given here is to carry with one in the chamber without a caveat that some level of competence is necessary.

I don't oppose C1 if the armed person is also a competent, stable, extremely cautious person. No one seems to take these qualifiers into consideration when cavalierly advising against carrying a "paperweight" or or a "brick". I'm not arguing with you guys, but I am lobbying for attaching some competence criteria to Condition 1 carry.

The competence you seem to speak of is necessary to carry, period.

If you are not competent stable or cautious you should not carry in any "condition." If you follow the rules of gun safety, are competent, stable and cautious than one carry condition is not inherently less safe than the other.

PhotoFeller
08-27-2012, 19:59
What people are saying here, is if you're not confident enough to carry your weapon in a way that's usable, perhaps you should consider alternative ways of self defense that you would be comfortable with. Pepper spray may be better for you. At least then you'll have a better chance against a threat who has taken you by surprise. You need 2 hands or alot of practice to rack your slide properly, so you don't cause a jam. What's to say the threat doesn't see that weapon, and take it from you before you can make it deployable? You run the risk of making yourself a danger to you, rather than defending yourself.

The decision of competency is upon the individual, and no one here can judge that for you. If you've already made the conscious decision to possess a firearm, and carry it, then absolutely you should be proficient in its use. That's more understood and implied than openly stated. If that's not something you're willing to do, and carry it in a state that's ready, then you should leave it home, and carry something else.

Think about it this way. Guy comes up and says, "Can I get some change for the bus, man?" You shine him on, and walk away, he sneaks up behind you and throws you down. Before you hit the ground, he's on top of you, why? Because he's effin crazy, and there's nut jobs all over. You need both of your hands to stop this dude from pummeling you, how are you going to draw your weapon, rack the slide, and stop that threat?

Thanks for a civil response. Your opinion is well stated.

My regrets to the OP for getting off course.

wjv
08-27-2012, 20:44
I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.:shakehead:

:wow: :wow: :wow:

Schlitz
08-27-2012, 21:22
my face when someone tells me glocks are "unsafe" to carry chambered

https://i.chzbgr.com/completestore/12/8/17/M_11Zk35-USUabB2NEutVw2.gif

stillborn86
08-27-2012, 22:33
Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.

No, you're not. Not at all. The fact that you're thinking shows that you're, at least, trying to be a responsible gun owner and operator.

Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.

I'm not going to read through four pages of replies, but I'm sure you've already come to your conclusion on this one. What I always tell people, when they have this reservation, is to carry the gun, WITHOUT a round in the chamber. Fill up your magazine, put the gun in battery (pull the slide back and release it so you can dry-fire it), DON'T pull the trigger, and put the magazine in.

Now that everything is in place, carry the gun... to your heart's content. And, as you're carrying it, count how many times the trigger goes off inadvertently. And do this until you have enough confidence in your weapon to actually carry it with a round in the chamber. If you're responsible with the weapon and have a proper holster, it should NEVER discharge, and this process will show you that.

I'm not going to tell you to walk around like this for a week, a month, or a year... Do it until you're comfortable and you trust your gun. Then, and only then, carry with a round in the chamber.

beatcop
08-28-2012, 07:13
Please read FAQ's....pain....much pain

Arc Angel
08-28-2012, 07:48
I have been a revolver guy my whole life, and just switched to a Glock 19 after getting two days of excellent training and realizing I could shoot the Glock better (to say nothing of more copiously) than my old Detective Special. I have a CCW and am carrying the Glock in a Galco Stow-n-Go IWB holster.

Here's my situation: Carrying the pistol with a round in the chamber freaks me out. I worry that my flesh pushing against the soft holster will somehow depress that little trigger safety and nudge the trigger back. I find myself walking around with my hips thrust forward, flinching away from the gun. Actually, I only did that for about ten minutes before retreating to a men's room, unchambering the round, and putting the gun back in its holster with a full mag but empty chamber.

I could carry Israeli style, I suppose, and draw-and-rack if it comes to that, but I just saw a training video in which a woman carrying Israeli style would have been killed by a knife had the attack been real. I would like to carry at the ready, but doing so really gives me the heebie-jeebies. Am I being silly? Do other people carry Glocks in IWB holsters with chambered rounds? Is it just something one has to get used to? If anybody could advise me, I'd be grateful.

:upeyes: Why do I get the impression that you imagine your manhood to be on the line over whether or not you carry your Glock in either C-1, or C-3? So you watched a video about some woman who flubbed a, ‘Mossad draw’. I’ve watched dozens of videos of IDF members who can - and did - complete a Mossad draw, fire, and score multiple hits on the target in less time than it takes (I would imagine!) for a typical civilian Glockeroo to merely draw and, ‘clear leather’ with his C-1 Glock. It should be pointed out:

ANYTIME YOU ASK A QUESTION LIKE THIS ON GLOCK TALK YOU ARE BEGGING TO BE REPEATEDLY TOLD TO: GROW UP, GET REAL, OVERCOME YOUR FEARS, CARRY IN C-1, AND BE A REAL PISTOLERO.

All of which causes me to think that maybe, just maybe, you need to do a personal, ‘risk vs. benefits’ analysis. Personally, I’d be interested to know the following:

1. How likely are you to become involved in that rarest of events in most peoples’ lives - An instantaneous CQB ambush?

2. You’ve referred to a lifetime of experience with pistols. OK, how many close quarter ambushes have you actually been involved in? How about in just the last 5 years? Before a final choice is made I think you need to accurately grasp what the real probabilities, both, are or might be for YOU in your daily life.

3. Don’t be myopic about this. There’s a certain the risk to you, AND there’s, also, a certain risk to others too. Threads like this always assume that a holstered Glock with a covered trigger guard guarantees a safe weapon. Unfortunately very few respondents appreciate that there are numerous daily incidents - that can and will occur in your life - where this is simply not true.

I’m an older man. Before 1987 I heard of very few ND/AD events; and I have kept company with large groups of gunmen, virtually, all of my life. Since the introduction of Glock’s, so-called, ‘Safe Action’ trigger system into American society I have, literally, seen and heard about (Ready?) hundreds of nonintentional discharge events! So, the outstanding questions remain,

‘Is C-1 Glock carry something that you really need to do?’

'Are the presumed benefits actually worth the risk?'

To those who like to repeat the trite Internet lingo: ‘If you haven’t got a round in the chamber then your pistol is only a brick!’ well, it needs to be remembered that: You CAN still get killed with a brick; and this has nothing to do with your manhood. ;)

4. The mere fact that this question needs to be asked tells me something important: Anyone who is perplexed by a question like this really doesn’t understand the concept (and nuances) of CQB pistol gunfighting; and, perhaps unfortunately, this is something that you’re very unlikely to learn, correctly, on the Internet. Let me give you some of the factors that have influenced my own decision about how to properly carry my Glocks:

1. My family and friends. The question is simple: ‘Do I really NEED to routinely expose all those people within my immediate environment to C-1 carry?’

2. Another question is, 'How likely am I to suddenly need to defend myself against an instantaneous close quarter ambush?' Here I determined that the risk is fairly high: Over the past 7 years my neighborhood has had one late night pistol assassination; (The victim was my next door neighbor.) and I’ve been involved in three armed confrontations:

One, late at night, after I caught a local meth dealer using our farm dumpster to get rid of his laboratory waste; another right outside my front door; (I think it might have been an intended, ‘payback’ from that meth dealer I caught.) and the final one was with two young armed robbers at a local gun store near my home. In none of these events were shots actually exchanged; but, this is only because the other guys suddenly changed their minds and were unwilling to finish what they had started. (Me and, ‘my brick’ have been known to have that effect on people!) :supergrin:

3. I’m an (uncertified) Glock armorer; and I’ve done a lot of work on Glock trigger mechanisms. I will NEVER forget my surprise the first time I discovered that a Glock’s trigger can be, ‘stacked’! With the introduction of Glock’s fourth generation pistols the factory has shown that they are well aware of this problem, too. This is the reason, ‘Why’ the height and angle of the trigger bar’s sear kick plate has been modified. (Don’t believe me? JR @ Lone Wolf Distributors has already commented about this increase in 4th gen. kick plate height in the Gateway Section of this website.)

Perhaps other pistoleros are comfortable calling their Glock triggers, ‘safe’ or, ‘foolproof’; but I am not. I’ve spent a lot of my life on firing lines; and I’m able to remember many people with what I will call, ‘lazy’ or, ‘spastic’ trigger fingers. I’ve watched people muff holster draws, too - Happily, this doesn’t occur very often; but it happens, nonetheless.

4. What have I found the real drawbacks with C-3 Glock carry to be? Well, it ain’t time! In practiced hands C-3 is - as I have already indicated - very fast! Faster, in fact, than most inexperienced or lightly skilled civilians (and a lot of, ‘experienced’ police officers) are able to do. Israeli carry is primarily disadvantaged by the usual need to use two hands on the draw. For those who might insist that a C-3 weapon is useless if you get one of your arms injured? I’ve got a hot news flash for ya: In ALL of the dash cam and convenience store videos I’ve watched, any gunman who gets hit in the arm or hand is, also, immediately out of the fight - Perhaps even more so than someone who’s taken one or two torso hits. (Think about it! You might see what I mean.)

5. Now, for the sake of fairness, I should answer the question, ‘Have I ever been disadvantaged by C-3 carry?’ An honest answer would be; ‘Yes, I have.’ but it needs to be remembered that I am often, either, alone or shooting with strangers on isolated firing ranges. Especially in recent years, more and more people have been unexpectedly showing up who demonstrate personal behaviors that - in my considered opinion - should disallow them from either owning or even being near guns.

Whether or not a civilian gunman should carry his pistol in C-1, or C-3 is a very personal decision - One that I believe should be made on the basis of: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill. Let’s be entirely honest: Nobody ever actually transformed himself into the, ‘biggest, baddest, mofo in the jungle’ simply because he carries his pistol in C-1. Neither is an experienced and generally competent pistolero guaranteed to win, or even to have an advantage, in a CQB gun or knife ambush simply because he’s, ‘locked and loaded’. I truly believe that probability and actual need should play big parts in the final carry decision. I, also, know from my own life experience that understanding how to fight, and being good at it, are far more important than whether or not I go around in C-1, or C-3.

As far as I’m concerned: Whether it's a gun, a knife, or C-1, or C-3 carry, a genetically dangerous or heavily experienced individual - One who knows how to fight, how to kill, and remains unflinching in his self-discipline, spiritual attitude, and personal lethality - is far more difficult to defeat than your, ‘average Joe’ with a smok 'in C-1 pistol on his hip. All this said, do I think that the typical American civilian needs to go around all day long in C-1? No, I do not. I think such individuals WANT rather than actually NEED to do so.

Too often, too much of internet advice is worth what you paid for it. It’s, also, historically correct to say that majority opinions are usually wrong. (Socrates said that, not me!) :supergrin: It’s your call; and you are the one who will have to live with the resultant consequences of the decision. (Good to think about BEFORE you sit down, somewhere, on a commode and pull your C-1 pistol out of its holster for a few moments - Yes?) :freak:



NOTE: As an aside, it's as facetious as it is true that there is no such thing as, 'C-1 carry' with a Glock. A Glock pistol with a chambered round is actually in, 'C-0'. ;)

TattooedGlock
08-28-2012, 07:58
I have a coworker who insists on carrying his G19 with an empty chamber. He also unloads the magazine every time he gets out of his car to enter a store. Then he loads it when he gets back to his car. There is NO changing his mind on this. He refuses to consider carrying a chambered Glock.:shakehead:

This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read on GT. I hope your friend never needs to use his weapon to save his arse or his family, becuase if he does, he won't be able to.

Droid noob
08-28-2012, 08:13
Going off the stat that most gun fights go by the 333 rule, i would definitely carry with one in the chamber. You might need that other hand to create distance between you and assailant.

When training with your draw, ALWAYS Reholster very slow and look your pistol all the way in. There is no reason you should have to Reholster fast.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Schlitz
08-28-2012, 08:41
This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read on GT. I hope your friend never needs to use his weapon to save his arse or his family, becuase if he does, he won't be able to.

He thinks it's disrespectful to carry a loaded gun into someone's business... :crazy: I don't see what the point of getting a cwl is if you're just going to have it loaded in your car. You can do that in my state w/o a permit.

Arc Angel
08-28-2012, 08:54
Going off the stat that most gun fights go by the 333 rule, i would definitely carry with one in the chamber. You might need that other hand to create distance between you and assailant.

When training with your draw, ALWAYS Reholster very slow and look your pistol all the way in. There is no reason you should have to Reholster fast.

:shocked: Ahh, more Internet wisdom! :freak:

YOU REALLY DO NEED TO READ MORE!

A more correct statement would be, 'Most gunfights THAT THE INTENDED VICTIM LOSES occur at and inside 3 yards, exchange only 3 shots, and take place in 3 seconds, or less, time.'

Try to be more careful about what you allow yourself to hold, 'as gospel'. People who tend to survive gunfights DO NOT live by those often quoted and thoroughly misguided '3x3x3 rules-of-engagement'.

Here, I'll do you a favor:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/tactics_training_what_happens_gunfight/

and,

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci

Now, while much of the information is abstract and needs to be identified and ferreted out, this is my favorite CQB gunfighting video:

Real Gunfighter Lance Thomas on Justic Files - YouTube

Hope this helps you out! :)

Droid noob
08-28-2012, 10:19
:shocked: Ahh, more Internet wisdom! :freak:

YOU REALLY DO NEED TO READ MORE!

A more correct statement would be, 'Most gunfights THAT THE INTENDED VICTIM LOSES occur at and inside 3 yards, exchange only 3 shots, and take place in 3 seconds, or less, time.'

Try to be more careful about what you allow yourself to hold, 'as gospel'. People who tend to survive gunfights DO NOT live by those often quoted and thoroughly misguided '3x3x3 rules-of-engagement'.

Here, I'll do you a favor:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2010/09/24/tactics_training_what_happens_gunfight/

and,

http://www.lawofficer.com/article/training/officer-down-peter-soulis-inci

Now, while much of the information is abstract and needs to be identified and ferreted out, this is my favorite CQB gunfighting video:

Real Gunfighter Lance Thomas on Justic Files - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkWgp2abM2w)

Hope this helps you out! :)

Thank you "Arc Angel" for your most gracious rebuke.

I've heard this quit often and thought it came from an fbi study. I was simply giving a good reason to carry condition 1. Are there incidents that aren't within the 333? Surely. I will read those links when I get off work though.

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

PhotoFeller
08-28-2012, 10:55
Arc Angel - My sincere thanks for your posts. Your sage advice is priceless in this place where we chat so mindlessly about carrying and using deadly weapons. I hope you'll save these posts to be inserted into future threads regarding C1 carry.

You and Dave Armstrong provide a very badly needed dose of reality in a debate that is heavy with bravado and light on common sense. Its a debate that appears often because many people new to concealed carry are keenly aware of the lethality of their weapons and want meaningful guidance.

Here is a post that, in my opinion, highlights the influence of bad advice on folks new to concealed carry: "I have been carrying less than a week now. At first I put the gun in my laptop bag unchambered. After driving about 1 mile I thought that's pretty useless. Pulled over...pulled out my G23 and racked the slide....Has been chambered ever since."

With due respect to those who argue against your views, I strongly support your more conservative opinion regarding C1 carry.

Droid noob
08-28-2012, 11:38
Arc Angel- do you ever carry condition 1? If so, how do you determine need, exposure, experience to make you go between the two conditions?

I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)

Am I understanding you right that you deem it inherently dangerous to go c-1? (by exposing others to my condition 1?)


The very Internet your condemning, is the same one your using to get your point across. Some just has to be taken with a grain of salt.....

Sent from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

Arc Angel
08-28-2012, 16:03
Arc Angel - My sincere thanks for your posts. Your sage advice is priceless in this place where we chat so mindlessly about carrying and using deadly weapons. I hope you'll save these posts to be inserted into future threads regarding C1 carry.

You and Dave Armstrong provide a very badly needed dose of reality in a debate that is heavy with bravado and light on common sense. Its a debate that appears often because many people new to concealed carry are keenly aware of the lethality of their weapons and want meaningful guidance.

Here is a post that, in my opinion, highlights the influence of bad advice on folks new to concealed carry: "I have been carrying less than a week now. At first I put the gun in my laptop bag unchambered. After driving about 1 mile I thought that's pretty useless. Pulled over...pulled out my G23 and racked the slide....Has been chambered ever since."

With due respect to those who argue against your views, I strongly support your more conservative opinion regarding C1 carry.

Thanks, PhotoFeller! You, also, write well; in fact, your prose almost achieves poetry! (It flatters me to know that you agree with, at least, some of my viewpoints.) ;)

I, also, miss David Armstrong. David knew how to present interesting comments on important relevant subjects; and he always expressed himself well. David had a gift for knowing how to challenge others to think while at the same time avoiding outright rancor in his replies. (NOT an easy thing to do!) :supergrin:

Arc Angel- do you ever carry condition 1? If so, how do you determine need, exposure, experience to make you go between the two conditions?

I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)

Am I understanding you right that you deem it inherently dangerous to go c-1? (by exposing others to my condition 1?)

The very Internet your condemning, is the same one your using to get your point across. Some just has to be taken with a grain of salt .....

:) OK, I’ll try to sort some of this out for you: ‘Do I ever carry in C-1?’ Well, I’ve often posted comments to the effect that I USUALLY carry in C-3. Which is NOT to say that I never carry in C-1.

How do I determine: need, exposure, and experience? (‘Why’ did you omit personal skill?) You might as well ask me how I know if it’s raining outside? Actually, I’m a little surprised by some of your remarks: This isn’t really about me or my prerequisites; instead it’s about other people and theirs. ACCURATE determinations of subjective: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill sets are your responsibility to provide correct answers to - NOT mine.

I already know - and have occasionally demonstrated that I understand - what I’m supposed to do when threatened with physical violence. What is more, on those occasions when I’ve been either mentally or spiritually, ‘asleep at the wheel’ ……. well, quite frankly, The Good Lord has always seen me safely through. You might not believe this; but, I do: ‘O’ Lord, well do I know, it is not even to the man that is walking to direct his own steps.’ (Jeremiah 10:23) Therefore, by a serendipitous combination of BOTH acquired personal acumen, and eventful circumstance I have, somehow, managed to achieve my present age. Perhaps as you, yourself, grow in knowledge and experience you’ll be able to do the same?

‘I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)’

I don’t believe you really said that! Are you being difficult or just plain peevish? Do I really need to say that I carry a pistol, or two pistols, around with me all day long, 365 days a year, AND sleep with one underneath my pillow every night? (I’ve made this remark, over and over again, on Glock Talk since all the way back in 2003!) I don’t do this because I’m irrationally paranoid. I’m not paranoid; I’m a Christian and have no need to be obsessively afraid. I do this because the neighborhood in which I live requires me to remain alert and to behave in this way.

(Remember what I said about my next door neighbor taking 5 rounds through his dining room window at 1:30 in the morning? This is an event which actually happened and not that long ago, either. In fact the bullet holes have never been removed from that window. I could walk across the street, right now, and take a picture of them. Then, again, I might end up getting shot, myself, if I were to try!) :supergrin:

Does any of this sound to you like a guy who only carries his gun to places that he thinks are bad? :freak:

When you assert that I tend to personally condemn other civilian gunmen who routinely carry their pistols around in C-1, you are correct. It is my considered opinion that this, ‘C-1 loophole’ in many state firearm carry laws has been allowed to creep into current gun legislation in order to induce an increased frequency of ND/AD events and, thus, arouse the general public’s ire against all forms of civilian firearm carry.

(In other words: If you can’t beat your political opponents then frustrate them, instead; and offer increased opportunities for them to hurt, both, themselves and others. Perhaps when you get older all this will make more sense to you; but, in my experience, this is one of the ways in which subtle men think; AND, in this day and age, there are a great many, 'subtle men' interested in destroying our invaluable Second Amendment Rights. All they really need in order to succeed is for general public opinion to significantly swing their way. Once that happens, your Second Amendment Rights are finished!) ;)

Finally, I don’t condemn the Internet; I treat it with a great deal of circumspection and suspicion, instead. As for me, ‘getting my point across’ in cyberspace? Realistically, people being people, that doesn’t happen very often! I consider myself lucky if I’m merely able to successfully encourage other people TO THINK about what it is that they are trying to do. Generally speaking, people are largely creatures of emotion; and, as such, they very seldom change their minds of their own free will. Being right or wrong doesn’t really matter; and would you like to know, ‘Why’? Because the human mind cannot not see, and will not consider, whatever the mortal heart finds repulsive and refuses to accept.

Internet, or not, I have absolutely no illusions about my presumed effect on others. No matter what, ‘Arc Angel’ thinks, no matter what he says, writes, or does, ‘the world’ around me is going to hold on fast to its own predestined course. I’m old enough (and, hopefully, wise enough) to realize that only a few people are ever going to benefit from whatever I have to say. That’s people; and, that’s people on the Internet, too. Sometimes ideas get exchanged; but, more often, all they ever get is argued over - C'est tout!

Droid noob
08-28-2012, 17:58
Thanks, PhotoFeller! You, also, write well; in fact, your prose almost achieves poetry! (It flatters me to know that you agree with, at least, some of my viewpoints.) ;)

I, also, miss David Armstrong. David knew how to present interesting comments on important relevant subjects; and he always expressed himself well. David had a gift for knowing how to challenge others to think while at the same time avoiding outright rancor in his replies. (NOT an easy thing to do!) :supergrin:



:) OK, I’ll try to sort some of this out for you: ‘Do I ever carry in C-1?’ Well, I’ve often posted comments to the effect that I USUALLY carry in C-3. Which is NOT to say that I never carry in C-1.

How do I determine: need, exposure, and experience? (‘Why’ did you omit personal skill?) I was paraphrasing. You might as well ask me how I know if it’s raining outside? Actually, I’m a little surprised by some of your remarks: This isn’t really about me or my prerequisites; instead it’s about other people and theirs. ACCURATE determinations of subjective: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill sets are your responsibility to provide correct answers to - NOT mine.
I was asking what YOUR requirements were for choosing c-1 or c-3.

I already know - and have occasionally demonstrated that I understand - what I’m supposed to do when threatened with physical violence. What is more, on those occasions when I’ve been either mentally or spiritually, ‘asleep at the wheel’ ……. well, quite frankly, The Good Lord has always seen me safely through. You might not believe this; but, I do: ‘O’ Lord, well do I know, it is not even to the man that is walking to direct his own steps.’ (Jeremiah 10:23) Therefore, by a serendipitous combination of BOTH acquired personal acumen, and eventful circumstance I have, somehow, managed to achieve my present age. Perhaps as you, yourself, grow in knowledge and experience you’ll be able to do the same?
Wow.

‘I would think if you felt the "need" to go condition 1, you wouldn't go there anyway. (kinda like those who only carry their guns to places they think are bad)’

I don’t believe you really said that! Why is that shocking? I thought it was a good analogy. Are you being difficult or just plain peevish? I guess that's for you to decide. I meant neither to be honest. Do I really need to say that I carry a pistol, or two pistols, around with me all day long, 365 days a year, AND sleep with one underneath my pillow every night? (I’ve made this remark, over and over again, on Glock Talk since all the way back in 2003!) I don’t do this because I’m irrationally paranoid. I’m not paranoid; I’m a Christian and have no need to be obsessively afraid. I do this because the neighborhood in which I live requires me to remain alert and to behave in this way.

(Remember what I said about my next door neighbor taking 5 rounds through his dining room window at 1:30 in the morning? This is an event which actually happened and not that long ago, either. In fact the bullet holes have never been removed from that window. I could walk across the street, right now, and take a picture of them. Then, again, I might end up getting shot, myself, if I were to try!) :supergrin:

Does any of this sound to you like a guy who only carries his gun to places that he thinks are bad? :freak:

When you assert that I tend to personally condemn other civilian gunmen who routinely carry their pistols around in C-1, you are correct. It is my considered opinion that this, ‘C-1 loophole’ in many state firearm carry laws has been allowed to creep into current gun legislation in order to induce an increased frequency of ND/AD events and, thus, arouse the general public’s ire against all forms of civilian firearm carry.

(In other words: If you can’t beat your political opponents then frustrate them, instead; and offer increased opportunities for them to hurt, both, themselves and others. Perhaps when you get older all this will make more sense to you; but, in my experience, this is one of the ways in which subtle men think; AND, in this day and age, there are a great many, 'subtle men' interested in destroying our invaluable Second Amendment Rights. All they really need in order to succeed is for general public opinion to significantly swing their way. Once that happens, your Second Amendment Rights are finished!) ;)
It's a little frustrating being demeaned by someone who thinks their opinion has more value because they are older in years.
Finally, I don’t condemn the Internet; I treat it with a great deal of circumspection and suspicion, instead. As for me, ‘getting my point across’ in cyberspace? Realistically, people being people, that doesn’t happen very often! I consider myself lucky if I’m merely able to successfully encourage other people TO THINK about what it is that they are trying to do. Generally speaking, people are largely creatures of emotion; and, as such, they very seldom change their minds of their own free will. Being right or wrong doesn’t really matter; and would you like to know, ‘Why’? Because the human mind cannot not see, and will not consider, whatever the mortal heart finds repulsive and refuses to accept.

Internet, or not, I have absolutely no illusions about my presumed effect on others. No matter what, ‘Arc Angel’ thinks, no matter what he says, writes, or does, ‘the world’ around me is going to hold on fast to its own predestined course. I’m old enough (and, hopefully, wise enough) to realize that only a few people are ever going to benefit from whatever I have to say. That’s people; and, that’s people on the Internet, too. Sometimes ideas get exchanged; but, more often, all they ever get is argued over - C'est tout!

I'm trying not to come across rude. I'm simply trying to understand your perspective on condition 1 being inherently dangerous. Also, how you weigh the risk verse reward for the occasional condition 1 carry you mentioned. I think we can actually agree that anyone that exercises their 2nd Amendment right should be proactive in their firearm training. This includes firearm safety when it's holstered or not.

Arc Angel
08-29-2012, 06:51
‘How do I determine: need, exposure, and experience? (‘Why’ did you omit personal skill?)’

I was paraphrasing.

No you weren’t! (And I think you know it, too.) If you're going to argue with me on the Internet, please, FIGHT CLEAN! You were selectively quoting me in an effort to bolster your derogatory insinuations against, both, myself as well as the arguments I presented. (Again, I think you know exactly what you’re doing; and, now, you’re being obfuscatory and less than honest in your reply.)

‘ACCURATE determinations of subjective: need, exposure, experience, and personal skill sets are your responsibility to provide correct answers to - NOT mine.’

I was asking what YOUR requirements were for choosing c-1 or c-3.

I recognize what you’re asking. The point remains that you should NOT have placed the focus on me. You should have looked at yourself and your own behavior, instead. (I do, however, appreciate, ‘Why’ you don’t want to do that.) ;)

‘Perhaps as you, yourself, grow in knowledge and experience you’ll be able to do the same?’

Wow.

You’re right! ‘Knowledge and experience’ have little to do with any of your replies. I see that you are, already, an extraordinarily subtle thinker. Even the form in which you have chosen to quote me makes it difficult and laborious for me to pick your comments out of my quoted text so that I can make adequate reply. It would have been SO MUCH EASIER to address you if you had used standard forum quotation protocol. (The same way that I have done, here, with you.)

‘I don’t believe you really said that!’

Why is that shocking? I thought it was a good analogy.

Do you ever come at a subject head-on, and in a straightforward manner? All this, ‘dancing around’ is starting to get tiring. You wrote an uncalled for insult; one that I’m sure you are, additionally, aware of.

‘Are you being difficult or just plain peevish?’

I guess that's for you to decide. I meant neither to be honest.

Did you say, 'honest'! Now, from you, THAT would be refreshing! If you’re offering me a choice then I’m going to go with BOTH. ;)

It's a little frustrating being demeaned by someone who thinks their opinion has more value because they are older in years.

TELL ME ABOUT IT! :freak:

Whatever the reasons, some opinions are worth more than others. Here, I find it entertaining that you’ve chosen to resort to casting more aspersions against me, personally, rather than to address either the premises or logic behind any of my arguments.

(We, both, have to be careful not to turn this into an, ‘Internet pissing contest’, huh!) :supergrin:

I'm trying not to come across rude. I'm simply trying to understand your perspective on condition 1 being inherently dangerous. Also, how you weigh the risk verse reward for the occasional condition 1 carry you mentioned. I think we can actually agree that anyone that exercises their 2nd Amendment right should be proactive in their firearm training. This includes firearm safety when it's holstered or not.

Ahh, Droid, this isn’t, ‘my first rodeo’. I don’t think that you’re trying to come across as rude; I really don’t. Neither do I believe that you’re, ‘simply trying to understand my perspective’. Your actual interest is obvious. You clearly want to destroy the argument by, first, destroying the man. Is it OK with you if I decide not to go peacefully!

Let's end this; shall we! :wavey: