870 Tactical with a Surefire questions [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Boxerglocker
11-11-2010, 20:18
After reading some of the recent posts about tactical training for shotgun. I signed up for a couple of classes early next year, one locally the other out of state. That being said, I have decided that I really want to put a Surefire forend weaponslight on my 870 Express Tactical.

I was at a local gun shop today and the sales associate whom I have gotten to know in the past few months on BS visits offered up a special discount to me for the one of my choice.

I know that this is the baseline forend they make, but not using the gun as a professional only for HD and classes is there really any need for me to shell out more for something other than this one?

http://www.opticsplanet.net/surefire-weaponlights-618fa.html

What do you guys think? My price would be $250 OTD for the 618fa, standard with the 65 lumen output bulb. Pros and Cons of my current way of thinking.? :dunno:

Thanks for your input guys.

aippi
11-11-2010, 20:40
That is the exact model I recommend for HD. To much light is not good on an HD shotgun and this model is perfect. It also reaches further then the LED versions when out side. That is a good price and you would know you are getting the real deal as you are getting it from a shop that you know. There are a lot of knock offs out there on the internet so buying from an Authorized dealer is important.

Boxerglocker
11-11-2010, 22:05
That is the exact model I recommend for HD. To much light is not good on an HD shotgun and this model is perfect. It also reaches further then the LED versions when out side. That is a good price and you would know you are getting the real deal as you are getting it from a shop that you know. There are a lot of knock offs out there on the internet so buying from an Authorized dealer is important.


Wow! :wow: Good info to know JD... I'm gonna swing by there tomorrow and order it. Thanks.

cooden
11-12-2010, 15:55
That is the exact model I recommend for HD. To much light is not good on an HD shotgun and this model is perfect. It also reaches further then the LED versions when out side. That is a good price and you would know you are getting the real deal as you are getting it from a shop that you know. There are a lot of knock offs out there on the internet so buying from an Authorized dealer is important.

Why is too much light bad on an HD shotgun? I would think that the more light the better to blind them. I am putting the Surefire 318LM on mine and it is the 100 lumens. Let me tell you, that thing blinded me bad when I looked at it head on.

Boxerglocker
11-12-2010, 17:07
Why is too much light bad on an HD shotgun? I would think that the more light the better to blind them. I am putting the Surefire 318LM on mine and it is the 100 lumens. Let me tell you, that thing blinded me bad when I looked at it head on.

I could see JD's point about too much light for a HD shotgun. I have a 100 lumen Surefire handheld and though your correct the extra brightness could blind and intruder if shined directly in his face. Given the size of the room, lets say 10 X 20 feet for a average home, making you more visible to a threat (or a multiple threats). Regarding home defense when clearing a room brings up one of the things I always keep in mind that was learned in reiterated in the few classes I have taken. You want to have sufficent light to clear and engage, but at the same time not give yourself a disadvantage by giving your position to early, say clearing around the corner.

cooden
11-12-2010, 17:46
Light is light, whether 65 lumens or 100 lumens. You are still going to be seen, might as well blind the scumbag in your house. A 65 lumens can still blind you, but that 100 lumens can blind you WITHOUT being dead on the badguys eyes. Not to start a flame thread, but this makes no sense to me at all. Just buy nightvision goggles if you don't want any light at all, right? ;)

BBJones
11-12-2010, 18:11
I have heard this how many lumens is too many debate before. However, it is usually when someone is talking about 90 vs 200. IMO the difference between 65 and 100 lumens is too little to get riled up about. I have seen weapon lights that were 200+ lumens that were so bright when reflected off a surface like a white wall they impaired the operator's vision. I think we can all agree, that is too bright for HD use.

Boxerglocker
11-12-2010, 18:14
Light is light, whether 65 lumens or 100 lumens. You are still going to be seen, might as well blind the scumbag in your house. A 65 lumens can still blind you, but that 100 lumens can blind you WITHOUT being dead on the badguys eyes. Not to start a flame thread, but this makes no sense to me at all. Just buy nightvision goggles if you don't want any light at all, right? ;)

Light is light???
Lumens (lm) are unit of light flow or luminous flux. The output of artificial lights can be measured in lumens.
Footcandle (fc or ftc) is a unit of light intensity, measured in lumens per square foot. The brightness of one candle at a distance of one foot.
Cadela (cd) Unit of luminous intensity of a light source in a specific direction. Also called candle.

Have you every been in a room with a know measures number of footcandles? Do you know the difference in 4 as opposed to 20? I get to experience it pretty often being a NDI inspector, using florescent dye penetrant. There is a difference.

Like I said I can understand JD's reasons and happen to agree. You could be clearing the upstairs of your home and because you have more than enough light being emitted by your light you inadvertently give you position away a lot sooner that necessary as the excess light intensity travels down the staircase.
You may not get a chance to blind the intruder as he will have plenty of time to sneak behind the couch and be ready, his eyes will slowly but surely start to adjust.
By all means if you wish to pay for the 100 lumen upgrade, do so... I just don't see the need for it for it especially since in theory I kinda was leaning in that direction anyways... just wanted to ask opinions and hence the reason for my post.

MrMurphy
11-13-2010, 01:03
I've used 65, 90 and 200+ lumen lights on interior searches, entries and everything else. As I primarily worked large structures and outdoors, I went higher, the 65 lumen I started with is entirely sufficient for blinding the hell out of someone at typical house distances just fine.

The 90+ are better for backyards, outdoors or large open interior spaces (which I was dealing with). Several times during training we managed to find mirrors or light-colored walls the hard way and zap ourselves, which was why we were training......light discipline is a big thing. Keep your hand off the switch until you're sure. Stumbling around in the self-inflicted flashbang state with a loaded weapon is not fun.

At the general ranges you would be using the shotgun, 65 is fine. I prefer LEDs, but i've still got several incandescent weapon lights mounted and ready to rock if needed.

22highcaps
11-13-2010, 19:26
I personally would split the difference between the old 65 lumen FA and the new 100 lumen LM by getting 80 lumen LF. It offers the reliability of an LED bulb and superior run time compared to the LM models.

Ajon412
12-12-2010, 16:13
Choate Machine and Tool makes a replacement aftermarket synthetic forend for the 870 with a picatinny rail for a tactical light, which has several different locations on the forend to mount the rail. It will accept any tactical light that can he attached to a picatinny rail (Streamlight, Surefire, etc). It's not bad, will suffice for home defense and is a fraction of the cost of a Surefire. I have one for an Ithaca M-37 and it works just fine. It's basic and simple, just like me (K.I.S.S). That's why I like so much. Just a suggestion....:wavey:


https://secure.riflestock.com/catalog_page.cfm?PCID=2&MID=1&PSCID=157&Lev=S3

aippi
12-12-2010, 19:05
Mr Murhpy was dead on bulls eye with his post about weapons lights. Nothing more to say after reading his.

That forend with the pictinney rail seems like a great idea but you have to adjust how you use the weapon as that thing can lay a hand open if you get careless. Just a warning because free O'bama care has not kicked in yet so you will have to pay for the stiches :-).

Ajon412
12-12-2010, 19:51
Mr Murhpy was dead on bulls eye with his post about weapons lights. Nothing more to say after reading his.

That forend with the pictinney rail seems like a great idea but you have to adjust how you use the weapon as that thing can lay a hand open if you get careless. Just a warning because free O'bama care has not kicked in yet so you will have to pay for the stiches :-).

:rofl::rofl:

MADBMW
12-12-2010, 20:08
Mr Murhpy was dead on bulls eye with his post about weapons lights. Nothing more to say after reading his.

That forend with the pictinney rail seems like a great idea but you have to adjust how you use the weapon as that thing can lay a hand open if you get careless. Just a warning because free O'bama care has not kicked in yet so you will have to pay for the stiches :-).


Um that was classic! For me, nothing beats the surefire fore ends. They are a sleek, totally integrated package and the 618 will be fine for HD use. It is what I have on mine and it clearly lights up my back fence from the sliding glass door at the back of my house which is about 35 yars away. That being said, I do wish they made it in LED, just for the better durability. Admittedly I will probably be switching out to the 100 lumen LED head just for that reason.

aippi
12-12-2010, 20:30
They make several 618's in LED. They are the 618LF, 618LFG, 618LM and 618LMG. Be sure to run buy the bank for a home equity loan if you want the LM series. That 618LMG retails for $425 and will be $450 after January 15, 2011.

I could sell these every week 'cause guys think they need that, however, I talk them into the 618FA if they are requesting an HD weapon. I recommend the bright lights for duty of if a guy has out buildings to check on. But for normal HD the FA series is fine.

GenoTac Ind.
12-14-2010, 08:40
Good point on lumen ratings, which is why I have a two mode Fenix Tk11 on my duty AR, 60 lumens, turn the bezel for 200 lumens. Best of both worlds, indoor searches and field searches. I'm setting up my 870 with the same setup. I have a forearm with rails, will use a 1 inch flashlight mount to put another TK11 on.

cooden
12-15-2010, 22:26
They make several 618's in LED. They are the 618LF, 618LFG, 618LM and 618LMG. Be sure to run buy the bank for a home equity loan if you want the LM series. That 618LMG retails for $425 and will be $450 after January 15, 2011.

I could sell these every week 'cause guys think they need that, however, I talk them into the 618FA if they are requesting an HD weapon. I recommend the bright lights for duty of if a guy has out buildings to check on. But for normal HD the FA series is fine.

Or you can just buy them off Ebay from reputable trusted sellers for $100-$125 less including shipping & no tax.

Boxerglocker
12-15-2010, 22:59
Or you can just buy them off Ebay from reputable trusted sellers for $100-$125 less including shipping & no tax.

That's a bit below the belt there with that comment. Price mark-up's from bulk sellers on fleabay will always be less than what a armorer specializing in custom builds has to charge.

Fireplug
12-15-2010, 23:48
Or you can just buy them off Ebay from reputable trusted sellers for $100-$125 less including shipping & no tax.

YOU talk about reputable and trusted sellers but yet you won't return my PM's about the item you sold me that is not what you said it was! Glad to see you can post comments but not reply to me when you reply to others.

To origial poster: I apologize for posting this on your thread but Cooden is not professional enough to contact me. Maybe he will now.

WoodenPlank
12-16-2010, 00:12
After Murphy and Aippi's comments, the only thing I could even TRY to add was to reiterate what others have said, to go with the LED version. I use a Surefire 6PL on my 590. Having read the opinions posted here, I kinda wish it was 80 lumens instead of the 120 it emits now. Oh well.

TSAX
12-20-2010, 00:47
Expensive but good quality light for the 870

Scattergun1187
12-29-2010, 06:37
The Surefire 618FA is what I run on my Wilson Combat 870 SBS. This is all you need, trust me.

BlackPaladin
12-29-2010, 07:35
More light throw is always a better thing. I see how 65 lumens is enough, but if you can get more, then do it! There is a new LED light head soon to be available for all of these (IMO outdated) Surefire weapons series lights. It is a single mode 300 lumen head with better runtimes than Surefire's own product. That is the one to get, and let me say it's about time.

MrMurphy
12-29-2010, 11:35
The next time you crank off a 200+ lumen light in a dark room and aren't blinded when you zap a white bedroom wall, let me know.

More light is good. Having multiple light level options is better, because more light is not always what you need.

Speaking from experience, you blind yourself accidentally with a weapon light finding a bathroom mirror (as I did with a search partner, using a 90 lumen G3 and a 65 lumen G2 on his rifle) you're out of the fight blind for a good five seconds. That's a lifetime.