Reloading for .45GAP [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ron59
11-13-2010, 19:03
Anybody doing this?

I want a Glock for shooting in GSSF MajorSub category. That's the category for the SubCompact size of *big* caliber guns. Only 4 guns qualify... the 10mm version, two .45ACP versions, and the .45GAP.

I like the idea of the grip size of the GAP being the same as the G17 (or at least closer than the G30).

Are there specific dies for this? From my reading, it looks like you can use the same exact bullets in GAP as ACP?

I know that buying ammo off the shelf is tough for this, but that wouldn't bother me... if I had the brass I'd be good to go.

Thoughts? Advice?

Thanks in advance.

GioaJack
11-13-2010, 19:10
You're suckin' up to Dudel aren't ya. He'll be along in a while and tell you all you want to know... he loves those short little things.

(I think they remind him of something.)


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
11-13-2010, 20:00
10mm would make a better Bear Gun.

ron59
11-13-2010, 20:16
10mm would make a better Bear Gun.

I could definitely see getting a 10mm, but I think I"d want a full sized and not a subcompact.

Something else about the GAP is I like the idea of it being small primer (another knock against the 10mm also). Wouldn't have to switch out the priming mechanism. Yeah... I realize you can get .45ACP in small primer, but if I'm going with .45ACP, I have almost a 5 Gallon bucket of .45ACP brass that's large primer. I can't see myself paying for brass, but if I"m going to have to (small primered .45ACP or the GAP), I think I'd would buy the GAP just because of the frame form factor.

Not gonna be an easy decision.

Colorado4Wheel
11-13-2010, 20:20
I could definitely see getting a 10mm, but I think I"d want a full sized and not a subcompact.

Something else about the GAP is I like the idea of it being small primer (another knock against the 10mm also). Wouldn't have to switch out the priming mechanism. Yeah... I realize you can get .45ACP in small primer, but if I'm going with .45ACP, I have almost a 5 Gallon bucket of .45ACP brass that's large primer. I can't see myself paying for brass, but if I"m going to have to (small primered .45ACP or the GAP), I think I'd would buy the GAP just because of the frame form factor.

Not gonna be an easy decision.

I would so get the .45GAP. Only issue is your gonna have to buy brass. It makes the most sence to shoot the same frame size as you already have. I do not shoot my G20 the same as my G34. The frame size makes a difference. If you don't mind paying for brass the GAP is a no brainer.

Hoser
11-13-2010, 21:03
3.8 Clays under a 185 HBRN works well for me.

Once fired GAP brass is cheaper than 45 ACP brass. One less primer size to keep around the house.

njl
11-14-2010, 07:41
I'd suggest at least holding a G30SF before taking the plunge into .45GAP. The G21 was too big for my hands, but I really like my G21SF. A G17 has been my main competition gun since GSSF did the GSSF 10yr anniversary special edition ones.

Since you already have a large quantity of brass for .45acp, and you'd have to spend some $ on GAP brass...it's not exactly something you're likely to find on the ground at the range on a regular basis.

ron59
11-14-2010, 09:56
I'd suggest at least holding a G30SF before taking the plunge into .45GAP. The G21 was too big for my hands, but I really like my G21SF. A G17 has been my main competition gun since GSSF did the GSSF 10yr anniversary special edition ones.

Since you already have a large quantity of brass for .45acp, and you'd have to spend some $ on GAP brass...it's not exactly something you're likely to find on the ground at the range on a regular basis.

Yeah, I've held all of the small .45ACPs, been awhile. I'll need to do it again.

Buying some GAP brass doesn't bother me *too* much. I've found a guy online is selling it SHIPPED at $50 per 1000. I'd buy 2000 and be okay. But yeah... my .45ACP brass won't be going to waste. It might be 4 or 5 years, but I have plans for a semi-custom 1911. Might even get an STI in the meantime.

dudel
11-14-2010, 13:44
Love the GAP. Should have done it earlier. Got my G38 with the GSSF coupon for $414 with 3 mags. It's my most accurate Glock to date.

The place I picked it up had a deal on Speer 200gr GDHP whitebox (250 rounds for $109), so I picked up a box. Figured if nothing else it would be starter brass.

Brass is getting easier and easier to find. I've stocked up with 2K of OF brass which should keep me for a bit. On the Bull Dawgs forum, I posted sources of brass. Both were real easy to deal with and I was pleased with the results.

As to reloading the GAP, it's great. Small primer means not having to swap out the primer system. It also means no more hunting for LP (which are harder to find in this area). I just stock higher and deeper on SP. The case is short enough that it's harder (or impossible) to double charge (even with Bullseye). The rebated case allows the round to tip up earlier than the ACP round (this was a clever idea on the part of Speer). As a result, it feeds everything I've thrown at it. None of the fussy feeding I've seen/heard of in ACP Glocks. The shorter case wobbles less as the shell plate rotates. It always hits the die smack on. For some reason, I get much lower ES on the GAP than I do with the ACP. Even Speer factory ammo was amazing in it's consistency. I also like that I can stock up on projectiles that I can use in both GAP and ACP rounds. The GAP uses less powder to get the same velocity as ACP. In general, I use about 1 grain less per round in the GAP than in the ACP. Doesn't sound like much; but for each 5 rounds of ACP, I can load 6 GAPs. My current favorite projectile is the Rainier 200gr plated HP. Also works well in ACP. It uses the same dies as ACP, so I thought I'd get some additional savings. Didn't turn out that way. Bit the reload, and got another toolhead and powder die, some Lee dies (with FCD), etc, etc, so now the changeover to GAP is fast and easy. I've settled on Bullseye (although I plan to try Unique and Power Pistol for grins). The loads with BE gave me very good accuracy and very low ES and SD. Didn't seem like much reason to keep looking.

The GAP is what the ACP would have been had it been designed for modern powders and metalurgy. I still shoot ACP in 1911 and P90, and will continue to reload it; but I a real GAP convert. I can see a G39 in my future. The G38 is the softest shooting Glock I've tried. The slide has a bit of extra mass. You get a shove; rather than a hit from the recoil. It's basically a .45 size hole from a 9mm package. What's not to like?

That about sums it up.

shotgunred
11-14-2010, 14:11
10mm would make a better Bear Gun.

You sure seem to worry about bears a lot. I don't think that you would like my idea of a vacation.http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/whidbeyphotos/mgb0702.jpg
She was about 20 feet from me here.

ron59
11-14-2010, 15:50
Love the GAP. Should have done it earlier. Got my G38 with the GSSF coupon for $414 with 3 mags. It's my most accurate Glock to date.

The place I picked it up had a deal on Speer 200gr GDHP whitebox (250 rounds for $109), so I picked up a box. Figured if nothing else it would be starter brass.

Brass is getting easier and easier to find. I've stocked up with 2K of OF brass which should keep me for a bit. On the Bull Dawgs forum, I posted sources of brass. Both were real easy to deal with and I was pleased with the results.

As to reloading the GAP, it's great. Small primer means not having to swap out the primer system. It also means no more hunting for LP (which are harder to find in this area). I just stock higher and deeper on SP. The case is short enough that it's harder (or impossible) to double charge (even with Bullseye). The rebated case allows the round to tip up earlier than the ACP round (this was a clever idea on the part of Speer). As a result, it feeds everything I've thrown at it. None of the fussy feeding I've seen/heard of in ACP Glocks. The shorter case wobbles less as the shell plate rotates. It always hits the die smack on. For some reason, I get much lower ES on the GAP than I do with the ACP. Even Speer factory ammo was amazing in it's consistency. I also like that I can stock up on projectiles that I can use in both GAP and ACP rounds. The GAP uses less powder to get the same velocity as ACP. In general, I use about 1 grain less per round in the GAP than in the ACP. Doesn't sound like much; but for each 5 rounds of ACP, I can load 6 GAPs. My current favorite projectile is the Rainier 200gr plated HP. Also works well in ACP. It uses the same dies as ACP, so I thought I'd get some additional savings. Didn't turn out that way. Bit the reload, and got another toolhead and powder die, some Lee dies (with FCD), etc, etc, so now the changeover to GAP is fast and easy. I've settled on Bullseye (although I plan to try Unique and Power Pistol for grins). The loads with BE gave me very good accuracy and very low ES and SD. Didn't seem like much reason to keep looking.

The GAP is what the ACP would have been had it been designed for modern powders and metalurgy. I still shoot ACP in 1911 and P90, and will continue to reload it; but I a real GAP convert. I can see a G39 in my future. The G38 is the softest shooting Glock I've tried. The slide has a bit of extra mass. You get a shove; rather than a hit from the recoil. It's basically a .45 size hole from a 9mm package. What's not to like?

That about sums it up.

So it uses the SAME dies as ACP? Interesting.

Some good info man... tempting.

Thanks, Dudel.

dudel
11-14-2010, 17:52
So it uses the SAME dies as ACP? Interesting.

Some good info man... tempting.

Thanks, Dudel.

Same, same dies as ACP. IIRC, only one company actually makes a set of GAP specific dies. For the life of me I can't think of what the change might be. Even with the rebated rim, Dillon calls for the same shellplate and indexing pins as for the ACP.

The sizing die is a no brainer as it goes all the way down to the shellplate regardless of what round is getting sized.

The Dillon powder die has to be screwed down a bit further than for ACP to compensate for the shorter case (same length as 9mm). Plenty of thread on the powder die. Per Dillon, I used the same powder funnel. Works as expected.

The seater die (or the seater plug) gets screwed down a bit more due to the shorter case. Same projectiles, so no difference there. Still plenty of thread left on the Lee die set.

The crimp die also get screwed down a bit more due to the shorter case. Again, plenty of thread left on the die. That's all there is too it.

I was going to use the Hornady set (actually did for a few test rounds), until I decided to get a Lee set (Midway had them on sale) to have a dedicated GAP setup, and not have to adjust/readjust the toolhead I had for ACP.

I got some brass probably from the same guy you mentioned ($50/1000 shipped). Also got some from leobrass.com Both were very good quality brass in good condition. I'd order again from him without any qualms. Both orders were quickly shipped and for the most part were a single headstamp. leobrass.com was Federal Nickel; while the batch at $50/1000 was Speer brass. Again, both were in very good condition and cleaned up well. As range brass, it had not been sitting on the range very long.

Join GSSF and get a deal on the gun. I like the G38 best, although a G39 will likely be the next acquisition.

ColCol
11-14-2010, 18:10
You sure seem to worry about bears a lot. I don't think that you would like my idea of a vacation.http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/whidbeyphotos/mgb0702.jpg
She was about 20 feet from me here.

Twenty feet...I would have been changing my drawers.

ron59
11-14-2010, 18:24
Join GSSF and get a deal on the gun. I like the G38 best, although a G39 will likely be the next acquisition.

Been a member for 2 years... haven't bought a gun yet through them. I bought my G17 before I knew about GSSF, and got my G26 from a random drawing win at a match this year.

But yeah... whatever I get G30/G36/G39 will be through GSSF. If I go with GAP, it will be G39 as gun I get I want to shoot with in MajorSub. One of the guys that shoots GSSF... I usually beat him in the Am Civ and Competition Divisions shooting our G17s, but he often places in MajorSub. I don't think too many amateurs shoot that division.

Colorado4Wheel
11-14-2010, 18:45
You sure seem to worry about bears a lot. I don't think that you would like my idea of a vacation.http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/whidbeyphotos/mgb0702.jpg
She was about 20 feet from me here.

Wow, great picture. I have only been that close to a bear on one occasion. It stood up and looked at me. Could see the hair swaying in the breeze. Great moment. It then just wandered down the hill. I didn't have a gun and even if I had one would not have used it. Majestic animal.

GioaJack
11-14-2010, 18:51
http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l18/whidbeyphotos/mgb0702.jpg


I want to know why people are taking pictures of me when I'm headed for a second helping at the Sizzler salad bar? You people are sick.


Jack