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Cerebrus
11-20-2010, 10:02
Does anyone have any idea who does this type of finish work?

Quack
11-20-2010, 10:06
Drake Oldham, but i'm not sure if he's doing guns that he doesn't work on.
http://www.drakesgunworks.com/melonite.html
He can probably refer you to who could do it for you as well.

also Coal Creek
http://coalcreekarmory.com/custom_finishing.html

Cerebrus
11-20-2010, 10:21
Thanks man.. I am finding out that Parkerizing just does not suit my needs.. that and I really do not particularly like the way it looks.. and if Melonite is any thing as good as Dave says it is..

Quack
11-20-2010, 10:23
melonite is good.

Cerebrus
11-20-2010, 10:52
Drake's site looks great.. and reasonable as well.. thinking of going with the browning front cut to get rid of the fcs.. that way I wont need a carry bevel done.

BOGE
11-20-2010, 10:57
...thinking of going with the browning front cut to get rid of the fcs.. that way I wont need a carry bevel done.


I never thought of that before!! That's a great way to eliminate the FCS as well as make the gun more aesthetically pleasing as well!!

http://www.ctbrian.com/ShotOne2458.html

Quack
11-20-2010, 11:08
Drake does good work...there was a Colt that i was close to buying and it even had a flat trigger. a fellow on another forum has an EMP that Drake is working one. when i contacted him last year, he wasn't setup yet for the smaller EMP.

Cerebrus
11-20-2010, 11:18
I am wondering if I could talk him into 15 lpi checkering on the front strap...

lawdog734
11-20-2010, 11:37
Where is he located?

Quack
11-20-2010, 11:47
Cuyahoga Falls. the Colt is at Pro Armament.

Welcome to Drake's Gun Works. My name is Drake Oldham, and I have been interested in firearms, 1911-style pistols, and precision rifles for most of my life. I consider myself fortunate to have a supportive family, and an employer that allows me to pursue my interests in training and gunsmithing.

I began my career as a Police Officer working for a mid-size department in 1997. My assignments included Patrol, Special Response Team Operator/Sniper, and Training Unit. I left the PD in 2008 so that I could instruct firearms and tactics full time, and I remain a Reserve Officer in a neighboring jurisdiction.


My training covers the repair and maintenance of S&W pistols (3rd Gen and M&P), Glock pistols, 1911-style pistols (Ned Christiansen & Colt), Sig P Series pistols, Remington Rifles & Shotguns, and the AR15/M16 platforms (Ned Christiansen & Colt). I am fortunate to have received personalized 1911 gunsmith training from Larry Vickers and Bruce Gray. I combined their lessons into my own style of pistol smithing. You will see attention to detail, fit and finish, with a focus on making the most reliable and accurate pistol possible. I make carry and duty weapons, so nothing short of 100% reliable is acceptable.

My goal is to provide a quality pistol at a price that a working cop can afford while keeping my customers 100% satisfied with the service they receive. I will tune up an existing pistol or help you choose the parts for your next full custom build.


Please email me at drake@drakesgunworks.com so we can discuss your next custom pistol.

drc767
11-20-2010, 11:50
Last I had heard, Drake was not doing Melonite projects anymore. Also....DO NOT even consider sending a pistol to Coal Creek Armory!!!! They send it out to have it done, but I wouldn't let those hacks touch a water pistol of mine....they absolutely destroyed a P7M8 I had taken to them to have Melonited a couple years ago. They reassembled with the gas pistol upside down and the slide would bind when it was racked (It took them 12 weeks to do it, and I was quoted 4 weeks).....I called them up to complain and the guy hung up the phone on me, but not before I heard him say "*******k you" before the phone hung up. I got in my truck and drove 2 1/2 hours to Knoxville to tell the dude he could say that to my face if he thought he was such a tough guy (he suddenly lost his baddass attitude). They were very sarcastic about fixing the pistol and assembling it the correct way......That place will never see another pistol of mine.....EVER!!!
As far as Melonite goes, it is a great finish for a carry pistol. It is not the sexiest finish in the world, but it sure is tough as hell and takes the daily abuses of carry very easily. It is my preferred finish for a carry pistol.....the only problem is finding someone to do it.

Quack
11-20-2010, 11:54
yep, he wasn't doing it, but he can probably lead them to someone who does.
no experience with Coal Creek.

these are from Drake.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4526845437_a914241c17_b.jpg

before:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/OHIO1911/Commander001.jpg

after:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/OHIO1911/DSC00709.jpg

drc767
11-20-2010, 12:03
yep, he wasn't doing it, but he can probably lead them to someone who does.
no experience with Coal Creek.

these are from Drake.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4526845437_a914241c17_b.jpg

before:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/OHIO1911/Commander001.jpg

after:
http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu169/OHIO1911/DSC00709.jpg

Those a slick!!! Drake used to doesa hell of a job on the Melonite. To bad he does not it anymore.

Cerebrus
11-20-2010, 13:29
On Drake's website he says that he does not do the melonite unless he has worked on the gun.. so this kinda kills 2 birds with one stone for me.. as I was considering sending it off to Clarks custom for his radical meltdown treatment.. but if Drake can shave off the fcs with the browning cut.. and if I can talk him into 15 lpi checkering on the front strap, then I do not see a problem with him doing the melonite on the pistol.

samuse
11-20-2010, 13:32
[QUOTE=Quack;16330552]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4526845437_a914241c17_b.jpg














Is this a Kimber??

If it is, then it's the first one I've seen that I really like!

Quack
11-20-2010, 13:42
no idea, but probably is.

Hokie1911
11-20-2010, 14:30
[QUOTE=Quack;16330552]

Is this a Kimber??

If it is, then it's the first one I've seen that I really like!

Looks like it. Looks like a tweaked Custom TLE.

asiparks
11-20-2010, 15:18
Drake did my CBOB, flush cut and recrowned the barrel and did the slide stop mod. as well as a few tidy up bits, can't say enough about how impressed i was with his professionalism and work....
before:

http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100355/CIMG8411/web.jpg

After:

http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100355/IMG_0874/web.jpg

asiparks
11-20-2010, 15:21
[QUOTE=Quack;16330552]

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4026/4526845437_a914241c17_b.jpg














Is this a Kimber??

If it is, then it's the first one I've seen that I really like!

it is, the owner has had it up for sale a couple of times on various forums....

bac1023
11-20-2010, 15:42
melonite is good.

:agree:

Its not the prettiest finish, but its tough and durable. :)

Hokie1911
11-20-2010, 16:21
Drake did my CBOB, flush cut and recrowned the barrel and did the slide stop mod. as well as a few tidy up bits, can't say enough about how impressed i was with his professionalism and work....
before:

http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100355/CIMG8411/web.jpg

After:

http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100355/IMG_0874/web.jpg

:faint:

Pure awesomeness brother. :thumbsup:

glock2740
11-21-2010, 12:40
:director:HARDCHROME!!!






:tongueout:

Cerebrus
11-21-2010, 15:53
:director:HARDCHROME!!!






:tongueout:
Too bling for my tastes..:whistling:

glock2740
11-21-2010, 16:20
Too bling for my tastes..:whistling:
Looks just like stainless. Is stainless "blingy"? :dunno:

My hardchromed GC NN

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/HCCommander_007.jpg


My hardchromed Colt Commander

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/DSC01824.jpg


My hardchromed Kimber

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/TrickedoutKimbers011.jpg


Doesn't seem very "blingy" to me.

carguy2244
11-21-2010, 19:58
How does Melonite stand up compared to King of the Cyanide Bath...Tenifer?

BlayGlock
11-21-2010, 20:09
Melonite and Tenifer are the same thing.

Quack
11-21-2010, 20:10
How does Melonite stand up compared to King of the Cyanide Bath...Tenifer?

similar, minus the cyanide.

carguy2244
11-21-2010, 20:54
Melonite and Tenifer are the same thing.

Actually...they're not.

Cerebrus
11-21-2010, 20:55
Looks just like stainless. Is stainless "blingy"?


My hardchromed Kimber

http://i914.photobucket.com/albums/ac341/OU1911/TrickedoutKimbers011.jpg


Doesn't seem very "blingy" to me.
I was just yankin yer chain a bit... it looks great.. I just prefer black guns.. who did the stippling on your Kimber?

carguy2244
11-21-2010, 20:56
Melonite is what XDs are coated with...they hold up very well actually.

But not as well as the King - Tenifer.

glock2740
11-21-2010, 21:04
I was just yankin yer chain a bit... it looks great.. I just prefer black guns.. who did the stippling on your Kimber?
I like black ones too. :cool: Hell, I like'em all. John Vincent of Hallston Custom stippled it when he did the Bullseye job on it. Great guy. Does great work. http://hallstoncustom.com/home.html

asiparks
11-21-2010, 22:51
Actually...they're not.

Yes.... they are.

BOGE
11-22-2010, 01:52
Actually...they're not.

Yes.... they are.


:dunno:

BlayGlock
11-22-2010, 06:57
Melonite is not a coating. It is a surface hardening treatment.

Melonite and Tennifer are the exact same thing. Here is a link to the company that developed the process.

To meet the growing needs with regard to wear and corrosion resistance, as well as the enhancement of the fatigue strength, great efforts were devoted to the development and launching of the TENIFERŽ process, which is also known worldwide under the trade names of TUFFTRIDEŽ and MELONITEŽ.

http://www.durferrit.com/en/unternehmen/firmengeschichte.htm

Hokie1911
11-22-2010, 07:38
similar, minus the cyanide.

You mean Kool-Aid right? :wavey:

carguy2244
11-22-2010, 07:44
You mean Kool-Aid right? :wavey:

Exactly...grape cyanide for me please.

carguy2244
11-22-2010, 07:45
Yes.... they are.

And no, they're not the same. Tenifer treatment uses cyanide, melonite doesn't. Different chemicals, different treatment, not the same.

But, on a lighter note, how does the TDP shoot? I was watching that one.

BlayGlock
11-22-2010, 08:30
Tenifer treatment uses cyanide, melonite doesn't.

Both use cyanate salts, not cyanide.

But, on a lighter note, how does the TDP shoot? I was watching that one.

It shoots very well. My wife actually liked shooting it more than a my Guncrafter. I am not too crazy about the the sights on it, but other than that its a winner in my book.

MD357
11-22-2010, 09:35
To clarify, the PROCESS is the same and has used different trade names and has been used in the auto industry for years. The FORMULATION within and EXECUTION (temp, bath compostition) of the particular process can be different.

Cerebrus
11-22-2010, 09:44
Some great info on the process.. but I am looking for someone who actually does it.. so far Drake is looking like the best bet.. but I have to get him to work on the gun first.. I am taking Dave's anti post about Coal creek into consideration as well.. is there anyone else who is doing this process?

Hokie1911
11-22-2010, 10:10
I would have paid good money to see that dude sh1t himself when Dave showed up. :rofl:

drc767
11-22-2010, 11:00
I would have paid good money to see that dude sh1t himself when Dave showed up. :rofl:

He did lose a bit of the color in his face when I introduced myself and asked if he still wanted me to "go Funk myself" (or something along those lines).....he then went in the back and I never saw him again. I guess he didn't think I would drive 200 miles to confront him......I also guess he will never do that again. :) That was just my one and only experience with that place....I would not use them again, and certainly would not recommend them to anybody that asked me. But that is just my experience......

Quack
11-22-2010, 11:07
http://www.finishing.com/324/69.shtml

Quack
11-22-2010, 11:13
http://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2010/08/metal-treatments-ferritic.html

While tenifer treatment is a very excellent process of metal treatment, it has one legal disadvantage -- it cannot be done in the United States, due to environmental laws regulating the use of certain cyanide salt chemicals. The original process as done in Europe uses 60% Sodium Cyanide and Cyanate and 40% Potassium Cyanide and Cyanate.

Hence, American companies such as Smith and Wesson or Springfield Arsenal use the Melonite treatment process instead, which is also a ferric nitrocarburizing process, but uses different salts and a slightly modified process to produce the same results. Melonite can be used on such steel grades as 416 stainless and 4140. However, it has the disadvantage of actually removing some of the properties of 416 stainless steel. The melonite process also produces a black finish instead of the gray color of Tenifer.

Cerebrus
11-22-2010, 11:54
I got this reply after e-mailing Springfield..



"We do not offer Melonite at this time, most commercial vendors of
this process apply it at a temperature that is too high for the type of
steels used in 1911 pistols or our XD for that matter. The process is
more suitable for low carbon steels. If done incorrectly the process
could void your warranty. If applied at temperatures over 700deg F the
process could adversely affect the heat treatment of your pistol and
it's tool steel components...."

makes me have some second thoughts.. either that or it is time for more research..

</pre>

glock2740
11-22-2010, 12:02
Even more reason to go with hardchrome. :cool: Or, you could go NP3+, Ionbond or Tactikote. If you don't like the color of HC, then the other 3 can be done in a black color I believe. And all are known to be durable finishes. :dunno: Someone is doing Melonite finishes for Guncrafter and they seem to turn out very nice. I'm sure Dave(drc767) could find out who Alex is using for his Melonite work.

Hokie1911
11-22-2010, 12:06
Have yet to hear of anyone that didn't love NP3+ after having it done.

BlayGlock
11-22-2010, 12:15
The process starts by creating a salt bath of alkali cyanate in a steel vessel.

I am not trying to be an argumentative *********, so please do not misunderstand my intentions. I am however, a chemical engineer and a nerd and I find this stuff interesting. The above qoute was taken form the article Quack posted and was my understanding of ferritic nitrocarburizing was that the process uses these alkaline cyanate salts.

While tenifer treatment is a very excellent process of metal treatment, it has one legal disadvantage -- it cannot be done in the United States, due to environmental laws regulating the use of certain cyanide salt chemicals. The original process as done in Europe uses 60% Sodium Cyanide and Cyanate and 40% Potassium Cyanide and Cyanate.

I wonder what part of that quote is true. I know for certain that cyanide salts in general are not illegal because Ive used them in research and they are found in organic chemistry resarch labs across the country. They may be regulated as far as this process, I could not say for certain.

Cerebrus sorry for nerding up your thread. Have you considered maybe asking Alex and Guncrafter about maybe meloniting your gun?

MD357
11-22-2010, 12:18
Have yet to hear of anyone that didn't love NP3+ after having it done.


I JUST got my fullhouse railed build back and the NP3+ is the best looking finish I've ever seen.

Hokie1911
11-22-2010, 12:29
I JUST got my fullhouse railed build back and the NP3+ is the best looking finish I've ever seen.

:needspics:

MD357
11-22-2010, 12:37
:needspics:

Thread will be coming soon. :cool:

Quack
11-22-2010, 12:38
I am not trying to be an argumentative *********, so please do not misunderstand my intentions. I am however, a chemical engineer and a nerd and I find this stuff interesting. The above qoute was taken form the article Quack posted and was my understanding of ferritic nitrocarburizing was that the process uses these alkaline cyanate salts.



I wonder what part of that quote is true. I know for certain that cyanide salts in general are not illegal because Ive used them in research and they are found in organic chemistry resarch labs across the country. They may be regulated as far as this process, I could not say for certain.

Cerebrus sorry for nerding up your thread. Have you considered maybe asking Alex and Guncrafter about maybe meloniting your gun?

it may not be the cyanide salts itself, maybe some byproduct of the Tenifer process, but i also recall reading something about arsenic (vapors?), so that might be it. whatever it is, it's something in the chemicals used.

here's a quote from another thread in regards to Glock's facility
4) Yes, Glock has made a EPA palatable package for doing the US version of Tennifer. This had been a major stumbling block in creating everything in the US.

BlayGlock
11-22-2010, 13:07
:needspics:

:needspics::needspics:

BlayGlock
11-22-2010, 13:09
it may not be the cyanide salts itself, maybe some byproduct of the Tenifer process, but i also recall reading something about arsenic (vapors?), so that might be it. whatever it is, it's something in the chemicals used.

here's a quote from another thread in regards to Glock's facility

Awesome thanks for the info Quack. I will try to go through the NACE library I have access to and see if I can come up with anything.

Quack
11-22-2010, 13:18
Awesome thanks for the info Quack. I will try to go through the NACE library I have access to and see if I can come up with anything.

some more info i dug up to help with the search.

The byproduct of the tenifer process creates amounts of cyanide that exceed the allowable amounts allowed by our government. (EPA etc)

Cerebrus
11-22-2010, 13:50
Cerebrus sorry for nerding up your thread. Have you considered maybe asking Alex and Guncrafter about maybe meloniting your gun?

No worries man, I ask questions because I want to learn things, and most folks here have been great about answering my n00b questions.

Hokie1911
11-22-2010, 13:51
No worries man, I ask questions because I want to learn things, and most folks here have been great about answering my n00b questions.

Except for Quack. He's tired of your dumbass questions. :rofl:

Cerebrus
11-22-2010, 15:05
Except for Quack. He's tired of your dumbass questions. :rofl:
notice I said most.....:supergrin:

asiparks
11-22-2010, 15:19
Dave Severns offers "Hard Hat" and EGW offers "E-Treat", both melonite/tennifer ( :tongueout: ) treatments..
Given the aforementioned nastiness of chemistry involved, i very much doubt that they do it themselves in house.....

regardless of the difference of application, the characteristics and benefits of tenifer and melonite are exactly the same.

pistolwrench
11-22-2010, 16:14
The 'melonite/tenifer process scares me...a lot!
It involves very high temperatures and actually changes the metallurgical characteristics of the steel.
Slides are typically 36-40Rc hardness through and through. After melonite the hardness of the outside skin is increased and the core hardness decreased. Warping can and does result. Especially if a smiff has tightened the slide to frame.
It's a one time thing. One melonited, no going back. No more modifications, no more repeats to restore the original look.

engineer151515
11-22-2010, 16:40
Scandium framed SW1911PD has a melonite finish on the slide.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4927/sw1911pd2.jpg

carguy2244
11-22-2010, 17:00
Dave Severns offers "Hard Hat" and EGW offers "E-Treat", both melonite/tennifer ( :tongueout: ) treatments..
Given the aforementioned nastiness of chemistry involved, i very much doubt that they do it themselves in house.....

regardless of the difference of application, the characteristics and benefits of tenifer and melonite are exactly the same.

one uses cyanide, one doesn't - but they're the same. ok.

Cerebrus
11-22-2010, 17:01
The 'melonite/tenifer process scares me...a lot!
It involves very high temperatures and actually changes the metallurgical characteristics of the steel.
Slides are typically 36-40Rc hardness through and through. After melonite the hardness of the outside skin is increased and the core hardness decreased. Warping can and does result. Especially if a smiff has tightened the slide to frame.
It's a one time thing. One melonited, no going back. No more modifications, no more repeats to restore the original look.

Hrm well that is definitely food for thought Chuck..Granted this will done on a relatively low-end Springfield, so if it gets FUBAR its not a total loss.. but on the other hand, what is the most durable finish that you would recommend?

HAIL CAESAR
11-22-2010, 17:14
Dave Severns offers "Hard Hat" and EGW offers "E-Treat", both melonite/tennifer ( :tongueout: ) treatments..
Given the aforementioned nastiness of chemistry involved, i very much doubt that they do it themselves in house.....

regardless of the difference of application, the characteristics and benefits of tenifer and melonite are exactly the same.

Shushhhhhhhhhh, that is Super Squirrel Top Secret!!!!!!!













:rofl:

Quack
11-22-2010, 17:36
asdfghjk


Drake @drakes custom guns did all the work. This started out as a Stainless TRP.
Melonite treatment
wilson beavertail
S&A magwell
caspian slide stop
caspian extractor
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/100_2427.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/100_2428.jpg


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/100_2423.jpg
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c25/Dirknar77/100_2425.jpg

buckhorn_cortez
11-24-2010, 05:20
Dave Severns offers "Hard Hat" and EGW offers "E-Treat", both melonite/tennifer ( :tongueout: ) treatments..
Given the aforementioned nastiness of chemistry involved, i very much doubt that they do it themselves in house.....



Actually Dave does his own treatment. His gun shop is in Gardnerville, NV and his processing facility is in Carson City, NV because the city of Gardnerville will not give him a license to do the processing where his shop is located.