Are these in the States? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bac1023
11-25-2010, 07:48
I know nothing about these new Astras, other than I've been looking at them for the last year or so on their site.

This isn't the old Spanish Astra. The company has moved to Switzerland and is producing 1911s. Just because they're Swiss, doesn't guarantee quality, but they look good enough.

I'm not big on the roll marks, but a Swiss 1911 really intrigues me.


http://www.astra-arms.ch/us-model

http://www.astra-arms.ch/daytona


I've never seen one online for sale, but how could a 1911 not be imported? Maybe they aren't available at all yet. :dunno:

Unfortunately, the only contact is in Switzerland.

I really like that Daytona. Its similar to a Colt Gold Cup, but with checkering. It looks nice, damn nice, in fact. :cool:

Thoughts? :)

majette
11-25-2010, 08:07
they look nice and, being swiss, should have outstanding fit and function. no rail model limits their appeal to me.

i think they would have a hard time selling in the us because the price point would probably be up there with that 3K ithaca 1911. the swiss made sphinx line of pistols were designed around the tanfoglio/witness model but their higher price led to their demise. here is a compact one on gb that is at 900.00 with 10 days left in the auction:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/202295000/202295664/pix475839029.jpg

SouthpawShootr
11-25-2010, 08:07
Curious that they would go to all that trouble with the Daytona, which in spite of the rollmarks looks really good, and leave it with a standard profile hammer and grip safety. Still, I believe I could live with it. Swiss made, huh? That's got to be expensive. I can't imagine them not trying to get it imported. Should be a cakewalk getting that Daytona in. They probably have something they haven't worked out yet. Like how they're going to produce it in Switzerland and not have to price it like a Baer to make any money. It'd be a shame if they showed all the promise of a really nice production gun, then end up like a Taurus. :supergrin:

They could do a better job on those grips (straight cut sides?:dunno:), but that's minor detail. That's about the only thing that look a bit ratty on them. I'd move that right side Swiss shield to the top of the slide, if I were them and leave the country of origin to the frame.

bladeandbarrel
11-25-2010, 08:14
Pricey
http://www.primarmi.biz/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=57&language=en

SouthpawShootr
11-25-2010, 08:37
Pricey
http://www.primarmi.biz/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=57&language=en

I think I'd use the $2300 for something else.:shocked::faint:

drc767
11-25-2010, 09:24
Those roll marks (Paragraphs) kill it for me.......:)

bac1023
11-25-2010, 09:28
Pricey
http://www.primarmi.biz/index.php?main_page=index&manufacturers_id=57&language=en

Yeah, you're talking $2K for the US model and $2300 or so for the Daytona. That's not counting any price jacking after importation.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 09:30
Curious that they would go to all that trouble with the Daytona, which in spite of the rollmarks looks really good, and leave it with a standard profile hammer and grip safety.

...because its modeled after the Gold Cup National Match. :)


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/002-18.jpg

bac1023
11-25-2010, 09:31
I think I'd use the $2300 for something else.:shocked::faint:

Depends on the quality.

I'd be willing to pay a premium to have a Swiss 1911, if the quality is good.

These do look good.

Plus, I have enough $2300 American 1911s, why not try something new? :cool:

bac1023
11-25-2010, 09:44
they look nice and, being swiss, should have outstanding fit and function. no rail model limits their appeal to me.

No rail makes them appeal to me. :supergrin:


the swiss made sphinx line of pistols were designed around the tanfoglio/witness model but their higher price led to their demise. here is a compact one on gb that is at 900.00 with 10 days left in the auction:

http://pics.gunbroker.com/GB/202295000/202295664/pix475839029.jpg

I like Sphinx pistols quite a bit. I've got the Competitor, which was their top of the line model before the 3000 series was introduced.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1914.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1915.jpg

.45Super-Man
11-25-2010, 09:55
The older swiss ITM AT84 was a CZ75 "clone" made by solothurn. They were built to a much higher standard than the original. Due to marketing(or lack thereof)very few realized what they actually were, aside from just being another "clone" pistol. Eventually, the AT84 was phazed out in favor of the "Sphinx". Anything manufactured by Solothurn is excellent in every way. The swedish mausers are considered as some of the most well built, accurate bolt actions ever to see military service.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 10:21
I know you can only tell so much from pictures, but I have to say that this Daytona looks very promising.

Check out the attention to detail and fitting. Also, I love the bluing. Its a pretty gun.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/DAYTONA_RIGHT.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/DAYTONA_detail_1.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/DAYTONA_detail_4.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/DAYTONA_detail_3.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/DAYTONA_detail_2.jpg


Other than the left side "ASTRA" roll mark (not pictured), I think this is an absolutely beautifully done 1911 with classic styling. :cool:

If its as good as it looks, I'd pay $2300 for one. For the price of a plain jane Wilson CQB, you could have something very unique.

Hell, it might be as good as a Wilson. That checkering looks superb.







.

FLIPPER 348
11-25-2010, 10:30
........well it's got the right sized ejection port, hammer and grip safety!

bac1023
11-25-2010, 10:38
........well it's got the right sized ejection port, hammer and grip safety!

The Daytona has the lowered port.

Jim Watson
11-25-2010, 11:10
They LOOK ok, except for the checkering on the heel of the slide which is unattractive to me.

I don't think they were smart to use the Astra logo, few Americans will associate the name with high dollar pistols.
I might be wrong, this might be the next Valtro.

A friend owned one of the AT84 Swiss CZ/Tanfoglio derivatives. It LOOKED nice but was not a particularly good shooter. The owner was shooting PPC Master class at the time and could readily tell it was not as accurate as other name brand guns like Colt, Sig, and Beretta.

paul45
11-25-2010, 12:09
This isn't the old Spanish Astra. The company has moved to Switzerland and is producing 1911s.

It isn't the old Spanish Astra? How then do they use the Astra name?

Oldsters like me would associate the Astra 1911s with the old A80s or A90s.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 12:28
They LOOK ok, except for the checkering on the heel of the slide which is unattractive to me.



I actually love that treatment. :)

bac1023
11-25-2010, 12:29
It isn't the old Spanish Astra? How then do they use the Astra name?

Oldsters like me would associate the Astra 1911s with the old A80s or A90s.

I meant the company moved is all.

That said, this sort of thing happens sometimes. Look at Springfield and Iver Johnson. They're both newer companies with old names.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 12:31
I might be wrong, this might be the next Valtro.



It does have a similar exotic feeling to it, now that you mentioned it.

I would really like to see and handle one of these.

PlayboyPenguin
11-25-2010, 12:59
Just looking at the pics it appears to have a "Dan Wesson like" level of quality to the build. It does appear like it might be more expensive though.

El_Ron1
11-25-2010, 13:18
Blech.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 13:51
Just looking at the pics it appears to have a "Dan Wesson like" level of quality to the build. It does appear like it might be more expensive though.

I would hope they're better than Dan Wesson.

I think I'd be disappointed with a $2K+ Swiss pistol if it was only on Dan Wesson's level of quality.

Wouldn't you?






.

PlayboyPenguin
11-25-2010, 13:55
I would hope they're better than Dan Wesson.

I think I'd be disappointed with a $2K+ Swiss pistol if it was only on Dan Wesson's level of quality.

Wouldn't you?






.
Not really, Dan Wesson is pretty well made,. Then when you take into account the unavoidable law of "diminished returns" you do not see much of a huge return on imported pistols.

FLIPPER 348
11-25-2010, 13:55
Just looking at the pics it appears to have a "Dan Wesson like" level of quality to the build.




That's why I LOVE this forum.


....can you also tell how well it shoots from the pic!!

PlayboyPenguin
11-25-2010, 13:57
That's why I LOVE this forum.


....can you also tell how well it shoots from the pic!!

No, but you can see indications of slide fit, surface finishing, and other attributes that are visibly present if you know what to look for in the first place.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 14:11
Not really, Dan Wesson is pretty well made,. Then when you take into account the unavoidable law of "diminished returns" you do not see much of a huge return on imported pistols.

Huh? :headscratch:

I'm not sure I follow you.

I have many imported pistols that I would rate among the best in my collection.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 14:14
No, but you can see indications of slide fit, surface finishing, and other attributes that are visibly present if you know what to look for in the first place.

If anything, those pics point to a very well built Swiss pistol.

PlayboyPenguin
11-25-2010, 14:31
Huh? :headscratch:

I'm not sure I follow you.

I have many imported pistols that I would rate among the best in my collection.

The higher priced a pistol and the better built it is has an effect on price. At a certain point you start getting less of a difference for your extra money. When you add on the extra marketing/shipping/duty expenses of a swiss pistol you end up giving away a little bit more.

nolt
11-25-2010, 14:33
No, but you can see indications of slide fit, surface finishing, and other attributes that are visibly present if you know what to look for in the first place.

but you cant see the tool marks on the inside of the slide lol

Tactical black
11-25-2010, 14:33
It always get interesting when the penguin shows up :rofl:

PlayboyPenguin
11-25-2010, 14:34
If anything, those pics point to a very well built Swiss pistol.

And Dan Wesson is also well built. The things that would push it beyond Dan Wesson levels would being things that are not so evident in photos. Such as internals and tuning.

nolt
11-25-2010, 14:35
And Dan Wesson is also well built. The things that would push it beyond Dan Wesson levels would being things that are not so evident in photos. Such as internals and tuning.

or lack of said tool marks on the inside of the slide

bac1023
11-25-2010, 21:13
The higher priced a pistol and the better built it is has an effect on price. At a certain point you start getting less of a difference for your extra money. When you add on the extra marketing/shipping/duty expenses of a swiss pistol you end up giving away a little bit more.

I hear what you're saying, but don't agree.

I really love the Swiss pistols I have now and they were every bit as good for the dollar as anything else I own.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 21:15
And Dan Wesson is also well built. The things that would push it beyond Dan Wesson levels would being things that are not so evident in photos. Such as internals and tuning.

In the grand scheme of things, Dan Wessons are about in the middle, in my opinion.

They're good production guns. Let's not get carried away.

bac1023
11-25-2010, 21:15
It always get interesting when the penguin shows up :rofl:

Yep :upeyes:

PlayboyPenguin
11-25-2010, 23:44
I hear what you're saying, but don't agree.

I really love the Swiss pistols I have now and they were every bit as good for the dollar as anything else I own.
You don't agree with a well establish principle such as the rule of diminishing returns?

Dan Wesson is a great high mid-range gun. I can see nothing in this pic that would tell me this gun is anything more than that either except for a price tag...which I often find to be a poo indicator.

38 Super Fan
11-25-2010, 23:44
The "Daytona" is pretty cool. I've always liked Gold Cups, good gun for them to model off of. I love that wide spur hammer and checkering on the back of the slide, nice touch.:cool: Probably a little more than I'd want spend though.

bac1023
11-26-2010, 06:31
You don't agree with a well establish principle such as the rule of diminishing returns?

Dan Wesson is a great high mid-range gun. I can see nothing in this pic that would tell me this gun is anything more than that either except for a price tag...which I often find to be a poo indicator.

Of course I agree with that. I just don't agree its any more pronounced with Swiss pistols.

I also don't see anything in those pics showing its not nicer either.

By the way, Dan Wesson is a high end production grade 1911. Nothing more, nothing less.

bac1023
11-26-2010, 06:31
The "Daytona" is pretty cool. I've always liked Gold Cups, good gun for them to model off of. I love that wide spur hammer and checkering on the back of the slide, nice touch.:cool: Probably a little more than I'd want spend though.


Yeah, they aren't cheap.

PlayboyPenguin
11-26-2010, 09:14
Of course I agree with that. I just don't agree its any more pronounced with Swiss pistols.

I also don't see anything in those pics showing its not nicer either.

By the way, Dan Wesson is a high end production grade 1911. Nothing more, nothing less.
Then the only difference in our opinions is that I will believe it is worth the money when they prove it (which can't be done with a few pics) and you will believe it is worth the money until it is proven otherwise.

bac1023
11-26-2010, 09:18
Then the only difference in our opinions is that I will believe it is worth the money when they prove it (which can't be done with a few pics) and you will believe it is worth the money until it is proven otherwise.

Its its built anything at all like my other Swiss pistols, it should be great.

Of course, I won't know for sure until I get my hands on one.

silversport
11-27-2010, 06:13
the checkering on it (especially the hammer spur) is beautiful...
Bill

bac1023
11-27-2010, 06:49
the checkering on it (especially the hammer spur) is beautiful...
Bill
Yeah, they look very nice. :)

gconan
11-27-2010, 07:09
Would this be the first Swiss built 1911?

bac1023
11-27-2010, 07:12
Would this be the first Swiss built 1911?

Yes :)

FLIPPER 348
11-27-2010, 12:01
the checkering on it (especially the hammer spur) is beautiful...
Bill


If you are interested in the same quality for your GI-style 1911, EGW makes a very sexy checkered hammer at a good price.

bac1023
11-27-2010, 13:43
If you are interested in the same quality for your GI-style 1911, EGW makes a very sexy checkered hammer at a good price.

EGW makes some f the best 1911 parts in the world. :cool:


...and they happen to be only 15 minutes from my house. :tongueout:

FLIPPER 348
11-27-2010, 15:10
my homebuilds are stuffed with EGW like a turkey

bac1023
11-27-2010, 15:13
my homebuilds are stuffed with EGW like a turkey

Good choice in parts. :)

silversport
11-28-2010, 07:11
If you are interested in the same quality for your GI-style 1911, EGW makes a very sexy checkered hammer at a good price.

thank you...
Bill

american lockpicker
02-27-2011, 22:05
The quality might not be very good. Heres some threads about another gun made(assembled?) by Astra.

http://www.modularweapons.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1452&sid=8f7228e89e5c4c0f834bf1fb290ff103

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=49456

glock2740
02-27-2011, 22:12
No rail makes them appeal to me. :supergrin:



I like Sphinx pistols quite a bit. I've got the Competitor, which was their top of the line model before the 3000 series was introduced.


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1914.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1915.jpg
Brian, you know I love your collection, but that thing is pretty bad man. :rofl:It is different though.

Nakanokalronin
02-28-2011, 08:57
I would hope they're better than Dan Wesson.

I think I'd be disappointed with a $2K+ Swiss pistol if it was only on Dan Wesson's level of quality.

Wouldn't you?






.

You know what I'm disappointed in? The fact that you vowed not to buy any new 1911s this year when I asked you what you would be buying in 2011. I called BS and you said something like "You'll see." All I can say is its a good thing your not sticking to at least one resolution. :tongueout:

bac1023
02-28-2011, 12:35
Brian, you know I love your collection, but that thing is pretty bad man. :rofl:It is different though.

Its really just a CZ 75 with a compensator.

Sphinx builds a very high quality handgun.

bac1023
02-28-2011, 12:37
You know what I'm disappointed in? The fact that you vowed not to buy any new 1911s this year when I asked you what you would be buying in 2011. I called BS and you said something like "You'll see." All I can say is its a good thing your not sticking to at least one resolution. :tongueout:

LOL!

I don't remember saying I wouldn't be buying any 1911s this year. I mentioned a few times that I wanted a USFA and Doublestar in 2011.

I actually haven't bought any since last September. :)

guymontag
02-28-2011, 13:54
The Astra U.S. Model is alluring. After I purchased my K31 I became a sycophant for the Swiss. If I had the discretionary cash and the opportunity, I'd stick my ankle in it.

bac1023
02-28-2011, 17:01
The quality might not be very good. Heres some threads about another gun made(assembled?) by Astra.

http://www.modularweapons.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1452&sid=8f7228e89e5c4c0f834bf1fb290ff103

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=49456

Interesting :dunno: