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bac1023
12-08-2010, 17:46
I know this may offend a few people here, as I've seen a few lately. However, I feel the need to state my honest opinion and see if anyone feels the same way.

What is the appeal of a Nighthawk Heinie model? Its a great 1911, no doubt, and I'm not going to take anything away from it from that standpoint. My problem is that its not a Heinie custom, its a Nighthawk built by Nighthawk employees. According to Nighthawk, he "supervises" the operation, but I'm not sure to what extent that is as its very vague. I do know he's involved in the operation at some level, but the whole idea just doesn't appeal to me.

I'd love the have one of his guns, but these aren't his guns. They use some of his parts, but so do quite a few others.

I felt the same way about the Vickers gun Nighthawk built. Once they changed the name to Enforcer and altered its appearance somewhat, I bought one. However, I don't want a semi-custom gun built to look like or try to pose something its not.

Again, the Nighthawk Heinie models are well built, beautiful 1911s. I'm sure that's the appeal, but the concept just turns me off. I want the real deal not a Nighthawk copy of a master 1911 smith's work.

I apologize in advance if I offended anybody. That's not my intention, but I wanted my opinion out there. I love Nighthawks and I love Richard Heinie custom 1911s. However, I prefer to keep them separate.

Thoughts? :dunno:

Hokie1911
12-08-2010, 17:49
I think Nighthawk's stock just dipped after your post. :whistling:

bac1023
12-08-2010, 17:51
I think Nighthawk's stock just dipped after your post. :whistling:

:rofl:

God, I hope not Paul. :embarassed:

Like I said, I love my Nighthawks. :supergrin:

thecableguy
12-08-2010, 18:14
I don't have an answer for you Brian but somewhere Penguins' fingers are tingling. :tongueout:

BlayGlock
12-08-2010, 18:57
I have an honest question as well. It is not meant as a dig. To what extent do you guys think that a famous smith would risk his name and his reputation on a product that does may or may not meet his standards of excellence? I would never put my name on something that I did not personally inspect, no matter the reputation of the guys doing the building.

As far as I how feel about the current offerings: Way overpriced for something not coming from the man himself. IMO NIghthawk has raised thier prices higher than I am willing to pay for them as of late. Dont get me wrong I like the ones I have or had, but they are not the "bargain" they used to be.

awpk03s
12-08-2010, 20:12
Honestly, I got my NHC Heinie model because it fit the profile of what I was looking for in a carry 1911 at the time (even if a little impulsive), and was a superbly done piece.

I would actually prefer it didn't have the Heinie logos on it - it's not a full custom build done by Richard, and I don't care to have it represented as such.

I do really like and prefer a lot of the Heinie components (trigger, mag well, bushing/plug) in the build of my pistol, and I'd use them again in another build if I could.

I agree that I don't understand famous smiths lending their name to semi custom houses, even if they make money off of it (which I'm sure they do).

All the same, while that aspect doesn't particularly appeal to me (it really had nothing to do with the draw of my interest to this pistol), I still love the gun.

bac1023
12-08-2010, 20:15
I don't have an answer for you Brian but somewhere Penguins' fingers are tingling. :tongueout:

:animlol:

glock2740
12-08-2010, 20:28
I don't own a Nighthawk, but I've always wanted one, up until recently. I'm not saying that I don't want one anymore, but a NH will be one of my last purchases, if ever. They have come out with some really strange stuff lately and I've never understood the whole Heinie thing either. If I want a 1911 that says Heinie on it, I want Heinie to have built it. I do like several of their other models though. I think that they make a good looking gun and I know that they put out a quality product. But for my money, there are other 1911's that I'd rather have. As for the Heinie guns, I absolutely can't see how they ask as much as they do for them. I do think they are great looking guns and I'm sure they are top notch, but they are overpriced IMO.

willis68
12-08-2010, 20:43
I know this may offend a few people here, as I've seen a few lately. However, I feel the need to state my honest opinion and see if anyone feels the same way.

What is the appeal of a Nighthawk Heinie model? Its a great 1911, no doubt, and I'm not going to take anything away from it from that standpoint. My problem is that its not a Heinie custom, its a Nighthawk built by Nighthawk employees. According to Nighthawk, he "supervises" the operation, but I'm not sure to what extent that is as its very vague. I do know he's involved in the operation at some level, but the whole idea just doesn't appeal to me.

I'd love the have one of his guns, but these aren't his guns. They use some of his parts, but so do quite a few others.

I felt the same way about the Vickers gun Nighthawk built. Once they changed the name to Enforcer and altered its appearance somewhat, I bought one. However, I don't want a semi-custom gun built to look like or try to pose something its not.

Again, the Nighthawk Heinie models are well built, beautiful 1911s. I'm sure that's the appeal, but the concept just turns me off. I want the real deal not a Nighthawk copy of a master 1911 smith's work.

I apologize in advance if I offended anybody. That's not my intention, but I wanted my opinion out there. I love Nighthawks and I love Richard Heinie custom 1911s. However, I prefer to keep them separate.

Thoughts? :dunno:


I completely agree with you on this, I have always wanted a Larry Vickers 1911, Nighthawk came out with the VT and i never understood why. For me anyway the only Heine, Vickers or any other custom maker 1911 that I will ever own will be a full custom and not some other companies wannabee


Having said that I have a Commander Bobtail Nighthawk that was built by Ron Phillips before he left Nighthawk that is my all time favorite pistol

drc767
12-08-2010, 20:55
I completely agree with you on this, I have always wanted a Larry Vickers 1911, Nighthawk came out with the VT and i never understood why. For me anyway the only Heine, Vickers or any other custom maker 1911 that I will ever own will be a full custom and not some other companies wannabee


Having said that I have a Commander Bobtail Nighthawk that was built by Ron Phillips before he left Nighthawk that is my all time favorite pistol

And Vickers pulled the plug on that relationship when there were multiple issues and cost increases with the model that carried his name.....I think he learned a pretty valuable lesson with that deal.

bac1023
12-08-2010, 21:16
I agree that I don't understand famous smiths lending their name to semi custom houses, even if they make money off of it (which I'm sure they do).



I believe that's the ticket, my friend.

BTW, yours looks great.

bac1023
12-08-2010, 21:21
I don't own a Nighthawk, but I've always wanted one, up until recently. I'm not saying that I don't want one anymore, but a NH will be one of my last purchases, if ever. They have come out with some really strange stuff lately and I've never understood the whole Heinie thing either. If I want a 1911 that says Heinie on it, I want Heinie to have built it. I do like several of their other models though. I think that they make a good looking gun and I know that they put out a quality product. But for my money, there are other 1911's that I'd rather have. As for the Heinie guns, I absolutely can't see how they ask as much as they do for them. I do think they are great looking guns and I'm sure they are top notch, but they are overpriced IMO.

I hear you on all that Joe, but I would love to see you get yourself a 'hawk. After all, you have everything else. :)

You're right, some of the new stuff is odd, but they do build some classy 1911s as well. As I've mentioned before, you would love the Enforcer. :)

glock2740
12-08-2010, 21:46
I would love to have an Enforcer just exactly like yours and a Ladyhawk(minus the roll marks of course). I like your Predator that's been bobtailed alot too. :thumbsup:

bac1023
12-08-2010, 22:09
And Vickers pulled the plug on that relationship when there were multiple issues and cost increases with the model that carried his name.....I think he learned a pretty valuable lesson with that deal.

That could be true, Dave.

rsxr22
12-08-2010, 22:09
I used to feel the same way as a lot of you up until recently. They did do a limited run on a strange looking "special edition" package with Knight's, but what else have they made that is strange looking? The AAC is different but I dont think it looks bad, but tradionalists may disagree.
I used to say NH was overpriced, but didnt know exactly about their product. Supposedly all of their parts are barstock steel. So that would take their entry line GRP and put it on the same tier as the CQB Elite. IMO they are not necessarily overpriced, and i like with them, you can have basically anything that you want but it comes at a price. Where WC will only do 30 LPI( i did get 20, but had to hassle them) NH will do 20,25 or 30. Also, I have read some negative comments about their CS, I have found them nothing but nice through our recent conversations. I am still a little new with them, but in the experience I have they make a heck of a gun

Hokie1911
12-08-2010, 22:10
I can't see buying one myself. To me, they seem a little overpriced. Would rather spend a little less on a Wilson or a lot less on a Brown. Just my 2.

manly
12-08-2010, 23:04
I've only had mine for about 2 months...But its been flawless so far from the first shot. I have several high end 1911's and they all have their high and not so impressive points. One of my favorite pistols is the least reliable..lol over 1300 rounds threw it and still fte and other ftf issues. its been back to the MFG 2 times also. Its a tack driver but i would never carry it.

The Heinie name had nothing to do with my decision. All you mid life crisis guys out there that have bought or dreamed of buying a Linginfelter corvette or Rousch Mustang.....Never thought or thought it was part of the deal that LING or Jack Rousch turned a wrench on your car.

The cars are none the less the Super muscle car that keeps you smiling.....


This one has kept a grin on my face for 2 months....more than i can say about many things in life....LOL.....and some of those were WAY more $$$ than a HTC....:thumbsup:

http://http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i438/onelapbmw/range%20report/11.jpg

woodrowNC
12-08-2010, 23:07
I believe that's the ticket, my friend.

BTW, yours looks great.

you're exactly right. it's all about the money. but hey, this is America. then again, i'm a little out of my knowledge base when it comes to semicustoms, as i don't own one. only had one pistol worked by novaks, and wish i hadn't done that!

glock2740
12-08-2010, 23:49
you're exactly right. it's all about the money. but hey, this is America. then again, i'm a little out of my knowledge base when it comes to semicustoms, as i don't own one. only had one pistol worked by novaks, and wish i hadn't done that!
That's the first negative thing I've ever heard about Novak. What happened?

woodrowNC
12-09-2010, 00:04
That's the first negative thing I've ever heard about Novak. What happened?

the work was excellent. it was just an option i picked. should have explained better. i saw a pic on his website of a bhp with a beavertail welded on. i know you've seen what i'm talking about. well, it was georgous. but it changed my hand position ever so slightly. i could hit tin cans at 25yrds all day when it was stock. i shot it more accurate than any other pistol i owned, but once the beavertail was added, my accuracy suffered. and i know it's the beavertail. it has almost twice as much muzzle flip as before. i had over 20000 rds thru that pistol, so it needed refinishing and i just added a few more things, the beavertail being one. just wish i had left that out. wouldn't hesitate to send him anything.
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5940/1001018vz.jpg

glock2740
12-09-2010, 00:16
Ironically, he makes a really cool 1911 that doesn't have a BTGS. I think it's called the "Next".

woodrowNC
12-09-2010, 00:24
Ironically, he makes a really cool 1911 that doesn't have a BTGS. I think it's called the "Next".

yeah, i've seen it. kinda cool. sorry i messed up the thread with the pic on the side. i don't know how to delete it.
ok. now i know how to delete it. :cool:

bladeandbarrel
12-09-2010, 08:05
I used to feel the same way as a lot of you up until recently. They did do a limited run on a strange looking "special edition" package with Knight's, but what else have they made that is strange looking? The AAC is different but I dont think it looks bad, but tradionalists may disagree.
I used to say NH was overpriced, but didnt know exactly about their product. Supposedly all of their parts are barstock steel. So that would take their entry line GRP and put it on the same tier as the CQB Elite. IMO they are not necessarily overpriced, and i like with them, you can have basically anything that you want but it comes at a price. Where WC will only do 30 LPI( i did get 20, but had to hassle them) NH will do 20,25 or 30. Also, I have read some negative comments about their CS, I have found them nothing but nice through our recent conversations. I am still a little new with them, but in the experience I have they make a heck of a gun

NH uses a lot of castings. Grip safety, thumb safety, mag catch, mainspring housing. Those are castings, not "barstock steel".

bac1023
12-09-2010, 08:18
NH uses a lot of castings. Grip safety, thumb safety, mag catch, mainspring housing. Those are castings, not "barstock steel".

I think most of those parts around the industry are cast.

In fact, the only machined barstock grip safety I'm aware of is Paul Liebenberg's.

BlayGlock
12-09-2010, 09:19
Where WC will only do 30 LPI( i did get 20, but had to hassle them) NH will do 20,25 or 30. Also, I have read some negative comments about their CS, I have found them nothing but nice through our recent conversations. I am still a little new with them, but in the experience I have they make a heck of a gun

You have a point there. NHC will build you what you want where some of the others shop will not.

Quack
12-09-2010, 09:24
for the cost of the Nighthawk, you would think that they would be making their own frames like Wilson or Brown.

glock2740
12-09-2010, 09:29
NH uses a lot of castings. Grip safety, thumb safety, mag catch, mainspring housing. Those are castings, not "barstock steel".

I think most of those parts around the industry are cast.

In fact, the only machined barstock grip safety I'm aware of is Paul Liebenberg's.
IIRC, the Wilson "Bullet proof" parts are all machined from barstock.

bac1023
12-09-2010, 09:31
You have a point there. NHC will build you what you want where some of the others shop will not.

Nighthawk is very flexible with their builds. They even offer hand stippling.


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_0230.jpg

Hokie1911
12-09-2010, 09:32
That stippling looks cool as hell. How is that vs say 25LPI?

bac1023
12-09-2010, 09:34
IIRC, the Wilson "Bullet proof" parts are all machined from barstock.

I think you're right Joe, but the grip safety is cast, I believe.

I was mainly referring to the grip safety.

bac1023
12-09-2010, 09:35
That stippling looks cool as hell. How is that vs say 25LPI?

It feels different from any checkering, but certainly gives ample grip. :)

glock2740
12-09-2010, 09:43
I think you're right Joe, but the grip safety is cast, I believe.

I was mainly referring to the grip safety.
:thumbsup:

glock2740
12-09-2010, 09:45
Nighthawk is very flexible with their builds. They even offer hand stippling.


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_0230.jpg
That's slicker than Owl poopee. :hearts:

Hokie1911
12-09-2010, 09:46
It feels different from any checkering, but certainly gives ample grip. :)

MSH is the same?

bac1023
12-09-2010, 09:47
That's slicker than Owl poopee. :hearts:

:rofl:

bac1023
12-09-2010, 09:50
MSH is the same?

Absolutely, as is the memory pad on the grip safety. :cool:


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2307.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/028-2.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_3668.jpg

Hokie1911
12-09-2010, 09:52
That is slicker than...
http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/1847642.jpg

...which I am guessing is slicker than owl poopee.

glock2740
12-09-2010, 09:53
That stippling looks cool as hell. How is that vs say 25LPI?

It feels different from any checkering, but certainly gives ample grip. :)
I agree with Brian. I never was much of a fan of stippling until I had my hardchromed Kimber's FS stippled. It feels really good and there's never gonna be a chance of a tooth getting chipped, as there is with checkering. I do like the way checkering looks better, but I've grown more fond of stippling. I wish I had had the MSH stippled too, but it's at Metaloy right now having a Wilson 30LPI MSH and Wilson Speed Chute magwell installed and HC'd. :supergrin: I'm thinking of having my RIA Match stippled on the FS and having a stippled MSH w/magwell installed on it then of course...getting it flush crowned and hardchromed. :)

glock2740
12-09-2010, 09:57
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2307.jpg


Those are the nicest 2 NH's I've ever seen. :drool::hearts:

bac1023
12-09-2010, 10:11
Those are the nicest 2 NH's I've ever seen. :drool::hearts:

Thanks Joe.

I appreciate that. :cool:

GJ1981
12-09-2010, 10:13
the grip safety is cast, I believe.

I was mainly referring to the grip safety.

They offer 2 GS's, one cast and one billet.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Bullet-Proof-Parts/products/223/

bac1023
12-09-2010, 10:17
They offer 2 GS's, one cast and one billet.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Bullet-Proof-Parts/products/223/

Very cool.

I missed that. :)

glock2740
12-09-2010, 12:04
My new Wilson ULC Compact has all bullet proof parts. :cool:

bac1023
12-09-2010, 12:15
My new Wilson ULC Compact has all bullet proof parts. :cool:

Awesome :cool:

rsxr22
12-09-2010, 16:50
Arent Ed Brown hardcore parts a bar stock steel as well?

And is there info that shows that NH's parts are cast? Because I heard conflicting info. Not trying to say anyone's wrong, just looking for something i can read for myself

Quack
12-09-2010, 17:20
Arent Ed Brown hardcore parts a bar stock steel as well?


there are only a few "Hardcore" parts and they have a lifetime guarantee
the grip safety and thumb safety are cast.

bac1023
12-09-2010, 18:31
there are only a few "Hardcore" parts and they have a lifetime guarantee
the grip safety and thumb safety are cast.

I thought so.

bladeandbarrel
12-09-2010, 21:47
I think most of those parts around the industry are cast.

In fact, the only machined barstock grip safety I'm aware of is Paul Liebenberg's.

You need to get out more.:cool:

glock2740
12-09-2010, 22:02
You need to get out more.:cool:
Yeah, I agree. Brian doesn't know anything about 1911's.








































NOT!!!

bac1023
12-10-2010, 03:18
You need to get out more.:cool:

I'll take that under advisory. :upeyes:

MD357
12-10-2010, 08:46
for the cost of the Nighthawk, you would think that they would be making their own frames like Wilson or Brown.

This is how I feel about it, nobody can argue the quality of recent production Wilson frame and slides. Not knocking NH, just saying that Wilson has raised the bar.

bac1023
12-10-2010, 18:33
This is how I feel about it, nobody can argue the quality of recent production Wilson frame and slides. Not knocking NH, just saying that Wilson has raised the bar.

I think Wilson is probably the better operation overall, but NH is no slouch.