Why a Shotgun for home defense? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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ennis
12-29-2010, 18:55
I see tons of people discussing their "HD" shotguns. Maybe I just live in a small house, but a shotgun seems unwieldy in tight, indoor spaces. Without bashing me too much, can folks explain the thinking in choosing a shotgun over handguns? Thanks

wrenrj1
12-29-2010, 19:02
No bashing necessary, it's a personal choice.

It may not work for you, but others like shotty's for various reasons. Gauge, and a multitude of different rounds you can load from bird shot, to buckshot, to slugs. Over penetration is an issue if you may live in an apartment etc. Just racking the slide of a pump is intimidating itself. Point and shoot is also a positive aspect of a shotty as the projectiles expand in area thus increasing the chance of a hit.

GAFinch
12-29-2010, 19:35
When you hold a pistol with your arms straight out, it's just as far from your body as a shotgun.

K.Kiser
12-29-2010, 19:49
Why a shotgun..? First - a shoulder weapon tends to fired more accurately IMO... Secondly - no pistol offered is gonna stop the BS like a scattergun will... Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?

aippi
12-29-2010, 20:18
If you need a firearm to defend yourself it becomes a gun fight. So, if you are going to a gun fight, take a shotgun. If you can't take a shotgun, don't go.

m24shooter
12-29-2010, 21:00
Up close against an un-armored target there is nothing that will put a biblical hurt on somebody like a shotgun.
There is going to be a very large wound with 8 or 9 wound tracks (assuming 00) radiating out from the entrance wound if the target is within 5-7 yards (farther if you're running a modified gun or using FC loads) if you do your part and aim. Pellet spread isn't going to do very much to offset poor or no aiming at close distances, it is more than point and shoot.
As with anything, there are tradeoffs, and the user has to keep those in mind so that they are aware of the shortcomings of the shotgun and act accordingly.

dc2integra
12-29-2010, 21:09
Id rather have a long gun than a handgun in any situation were i have to defend myself.I use my handgun to get to my shotgun :supergrin:

Sheepdog Scout
12-29-2010, 21:34
Id rather have a long gun than a handgun in any situation were i have to defend myself.I use my handgun to get to my shotgun :supergrin:

A man after my heart. And Jeff Coopers.

I love handguns. I believe more than any other people, Americans have an affinity for handguns. Handguns to me, are strictly a second or third option compared to a rifle or shotgun if one is available.

vista461
12-30-2010, 00:41
Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

MrMurphy
12-30-2010, 01:24
I prefer a rifle for indoor work by vocation, training and experience. Right behind that is a good 12 gauge. Pistols are inherently weak stoppers. A shotgun, with a single round of buckshot, is a bit different than a pistol. A pistol you get off 2-3 rounds in quick succession and hope you hit center mass.

A shotgun round is a .33 caliber pellet bringing six or seven friends along for the ride all in the same area. One pellet might not hit something vital, but odds are 'the friends' did. If you put the round where it needs to go, one of them has a far higher chance of hitting something that matters.

Shotguns do have their downsides, such as low ammo capacity. But for most house defense situations if you exceed 3 rounds fired you're run into an MS13 hit squad or the guys who you are up against are extremely determined.

I prefer 30 rounds of 5.56 myself, because i've spent years clearing buildings with an M4. But a shotgun OR a rifle is not particularly any longer than a pistol in a standard shooting stance. Considering how many rooms, bathrooms, hallways, closets, portapotties, aircraft cockpits, trucks, cars, Humvees, attics, and everthing else i've managed to get myself into with a rifle and body armor on.....doing it with a shotgun would not have been appreciably harder. I've cleared rooms with an M249 machine gun, which is a hell of a lot bulkier than an 870.

Unless you have training and brought friends, you don't clear buildings. Not unless it's a serious emergency. In either case, i'd prefer a long gun. The pistol is a backup, or used in circumstances where only one hand is available (carrying a kid for example). In most situations, hunkering down, calling the cops, and aiming at the door is the survivable answer. Use the shotgun as a hallway howitzer. If they come through the door, they're getting 8-32 pellets coming their way in a hurry.

mixflip
12-30-2010, 01:25
Your chances of "stopping" a threat with one pull of the trigger is far higher on a shotgun. Thats my #1 reason.

#2, I can hit a moving target easier with a shotgun and 00-buck than I can with a handgun. (example, I cant hit clay pigeons for nothing with my handgun?)

I look at it this way...if a mentally disturbed person with a knife was charging at me... I'd rather have a shotgun loaded with 00-buck.

Btw I personally feel its foolish to go clearing a house of home invaders alone. I always tell my wife, if someone is kicking in the door, grab the shotgun, make it ready for live fire, retreat to a back room, lock the door, take cover behind a bed or dresser, cover the door with the muzzle at all times (aka the fatal funnel), call 911 and put it on speaker phone, yell out that you called the cops and you have a gun, if they still try to open the door.... identify that they are indeed the bad guys and "blow them away!!!"

Hunting them down leaves you susceptible to falling right into an ambush by multiple bad guys. Of course rescuing your kids is a valid reason to venture out.

Sheepdog Scout
12-30-2010, 02:46
Your chances of "stopping" a threat with one pull of the trigger is far higher on a shotgun. Thats my #1 reason.

#2, I can hit a moving target easier with a shotgun and 00-buck than I can with a handgun. (example, I cant hit clay pigeons for nothing with my handgun?)

I look at it this way...if a mentally disturbed person with a knife was charging at me... I'd rather have a shotgun loaded with 00-buck.

Btw I personally feel its foolish to go clearing a house of home invaders alone. I always tell my wife, if someone is kicking in the door, grab the shotgun, make it ready for live fire, retreat to a back room, lock the door, take cover behind a bed or dresser, cover the door with the muzzle at all times (aka the fatal funnel), call 911 and put it on speaker phone, yell out that you called the cops and you have a gun, if they still try to open the door.... identify that they are indeed the bad guys and "blow them away!!!"

Hunting them down leaves you susceptible to falling right into an ambush by multiple bad guys. Of course rescuing your kids is a valid reason to venture out.
This is the philosophy I subscribe to as well. In a home invasion situation, if you can help it, it's better to retreat to an area than clearing the house. Especially if you're alone.

j.primo
12-30-2010, 04:01
Why a shotgun..? First - a shoulder weapon tends to fired more accurately IMO... Secondly - no pistol offered is gonna stop the BS like a scattergun will... Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?

^^FTW

Hahahah

KK40384
12-30-2010, 06:20
Why a shotgun..? First - a shoulder weapon tends to fired more accurately IMO... Secondly - no pistol offered is gonna stop the BS like a scattergun will... Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?

:rofl:I laughed so hard I think I peed a little :rofl:

wtf0ver
12-30-2010, 07:17
Why a shotgun..? First - a shoulder weapon tends to fired more accurately IMO... Secondly - no pistol offered is gonna stop the BS like a scattergun will... Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?


i do believe this is signature material.

Beware Owner
12-30-2010, 07:45
This thread is hilarious. Personally, I have a tendency to make head shots. Couple that with the fact that I have two sweet little girls and their mommy there, wonder why they call them Mossy....do they mean "messy"?

Kegs
12-30-2010, 07:48
A shotgun is the hardest hitter available to the typical civilian homeowner.

Want a shorty, here it is:

http://www.tromix.com/images/S-27_410sm.gif

Available here:http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm

For a serious home invasion by crackheads, meth dealers or gangs of the urban sort, , I would most definitely prefer this + armor over anything I can think of. I would not use 0 or 00 buck, but rather 000 buckshot, just a personal preference.

Consider custom loads with tungsten carbide bearings for punks using soft armor. A few flagged mags handy should do the trick.

Beware Owner
12-30-2010, 07:51
A shotgun is the hardest hitter available to the typical civilian homeowner.

Want a shorty, here it is:

http://www.tromix.com/images/S-27_410sm.gif

For a serious home invasion by crackheads, meth dealers or gangs of the urban sort, , I would most definitely prefer this + armor over anything I can think of. I would not use 0 or 00 buck, but rather 000 buckshot, just a personal preference.

Consider custom loads with tungsten carbide bearings for punks using soft armor. A few flagged mags handy should do the trick.

Available here:http://www.tromix.com/saiga.htm

Looks absolutely perverted and sick...I love it! :supergrin:

DRAGON1970
12-30-2010, 08:24
To all involved. Do you keep your shotguns on the nightstand??

Aceman
12-30-2010, 12:43
I will not say that pistola does not have its advantages - because it does. And your skill/comfort with the weapon of choice counts for a lot too. It's a totally reasonable question. My response:

#1 Long gun inherently more accurate - and I'm more accurate with it
#2 Buck = more margin for error on shot placement
#3 More shot = more likelihood of critical hit
#4 Better stopper overall than any handgun
#5 Higher utility as a weapon (large steel stick) for me
#6 I'm more certain of my skill with it, and more comfortable shooting it

mgeoffriau
12-30-2010, 12:53
Different tools for different purposes. If I all my loved ones are in one room, then we are staying in that room and I'll have the shotgun aimed at the door. If the situation dictates that I have to clear the house, then I'll take a pistol with an attached light (with momentary controls).

RMTactical
12-30-2010, 13:05
No bashing necessary, it's a personal choice.

Agreed. Shotguns are great weapons and can be used with great efficiency in the right hands. There is a reason they dominated trench warfare in WWI. The Germans hated them.

I don't reach for a shotgun first, but they are definitely one of the better options out there.

Ferdinandd
12-30-2010, 20:13
As already mentioned, I feel that I can place shots better under stress better with a shoulder-mounted gun than a pistol. Plus I can tailor the ammo for HD applications. After years of using 00bk, I'm venturing out and trying #1bk - 12 pellets in a relatively low-recoild round moving at 1300fps, and most importantly, I can use buffer to keep the pattern really tight out to 40 yards or so. Imagine 12 CCI Stingers hitting in a pattern the size of an orange inside of 20 yards.

Don't get me wrong though. I can't keep a SG handy due to having kids in the house. A Glock 17 is currently my most readily available option.

kimo
12-30-2010, 20:18
1. The sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round will make the bad guy faint.

2. Its a shotgun and you don't have to aim as much.

22highcaps
12-30-2010, 20:25
I prefer a rifle for indoor work by vocation, training and experience. Right behind that is a good 12 gauge. Pistols are inherently weak stoppers. A shotgun, with a single round of buckshot, is a bit different than a pistol. A pistol you get off 2-3 rounds in quick succession and hope you hit center mass.

A shotgun round is a .33 caliber pellet bringing six or seven friends along for the ride all in the same area. One pellet might not hit something vital, but odds are 'the friends' did. If you put the round where it needs to go, one of them has a far higher chance of hitting something that matters.

Shotguns do have their downsides, such as low ammo capacity (aside from the Saiga 12 with a 20rd drum). But for most house defense situations if you exceed 3 rounds fired you're run into an MS13 hit squad or the guys who you are up against are extremely determined.

I prefer 30 rounds of 5.56 myself, because i've spent years clearing buildings with an M4. But a shotgun OR a rifle is not particularly any longer than a pistol in a standard shooting stance. Considering how many rooms, bathrooms, hallways, closets, portapotties, aircraft cockpits, trucks, cars, Humvees, attics, and everthing else i've managed to get myself into with a rifle and body armor on.....doing it with a shotgun would not have been appreciably harder. I've cleared rooms with an M249 machine gun, which is a hell of a lot bulkier than an 870.

Unless you have training and brought friends, you don't clear buildings. Not unless it's a serious emergency. In either case, i'd prefer a long gun. The pistol is a backup, or used in circumstances where only one hand is available (carrying a kid for example). In most situations, hunkering down, calling the cops, and aiming at the door is the survivable answer. Use the shotgun as a hallway howitzer. If they come through the door, they're getting 8-32 pellets coming their way in a hurry.

excellent post aside from my minor nitpick

fnfalguy
12-30-2010, 23:04
From a practical perspective, this is why I believe that if you can only have one gun or you're getting your first gun that getting a shotgun is a very good first choice:

* You can legally own a shotgun more quickly (i.e. 18 vs 21 years old) than a pistol in many places.
* If you have two barrels and access to a tactical flashlight, you can hunt, shoot trap/skeet and use your shotgun defensively so it has great utility for a single firearm.
* At close range, a shotgun has a devastating effect from a defensive perspective.
* Shotgun ammo is easy to find and is relatively inexpensive compared to other types of ammunition.

I think that the above reasons would be fairly compelling regarding purchasing a shotgun as a person's first or only firearm.

Mad Ryan
12-30-2010, 23:17
1. The sound of a pump shotgun chambering a round will make the bad guy faint.

2. Its a shotgun and you don't have to aim as much.

Your post is wishful thinking at best dude...

Pump shotguns sound distinctive but I'd rather not depend on that, especially since I'm giving up my position do utilize this perceived advantage.

Secondly, at FISH ranges you're pattern is going to be about an inch and a half wide so you absolutely have to aim just as much as with a pistol. The longer sight radius makes it a bit easier but it's still not like the movies.

MrMurphy
12-31-2010, 00:15
22Highcaps, there's millions of tube fed shotguns in the world.

Very, very few detachable mag or drum fed shotguns.

So the point is 99% of the time, valid. And Saiga mags CAN have problems.

Bowtie
12-31-2010, 00:20
If you need a firearm to defend yourself it becomes a gun fight. So, if you are going to a gun fight, take a shotgun. If you can't take a shotgun, don't go.

Not true.. Useing a gun to defend your life does not meen the other guy has a gun. Theres alot of thing out there that can kill you.

aippi
12-31-2010, 00:38
Ah, Bowtie I have no idea why the heck you would paste my statement as not true. It damn sure is true. If I have a gun and he only has a knife or club and comes at me it becomes a gun fight. He is the idiot that brought the knife to the gun fight.

frankr
12-31-2010, 05:03
Why a Shotgun for home defense? Why Not! Your talking about home defense, right? Then if he is crazy enough to break into a house not knowing or even caring that someone maybe home. I’m thinking he must be high or out of his mind, and if he is I want to stop him in his tracks. What better way than with 9 pellets (.33) of 00 buck at close range. Yes I have a Glock 27 next to my bed but if I can get to either my 870 or 930 SXP he or they will be in a world of hurt. But that's just me.

kimo
12-31-2010, 07:13
Your post is wishful thinking at best dude...

Pump shotguns sound distinctive but I'd rather not depend on that, especially since I'm giving up my position do utilize this perceived advantage.

Secondly, at FISH ranges you're pattern is going to be about an inch and a half wide so you absolutely have to aim just as much as with a pistol. The longer sight radius makes it a bit easier but it's still not like the movies.

I was being facetious. so many threads on shotguns for home defense mention these two things and they are just not true. :rofl:

El_Ron1
12-31-2010, 07:23
http://oak.cats.ohiou.edu/~omalley/wisdom/y2k-shotgun.jpg

Mad Ryan
12-31-2010, 09:50
I was being facetious. so many threads on shotguns for home defense mention these two things and they are just not true. :rofl:

It's cool...

You should use sarcasm tags or something... :supergrin:

I just read what you wrote and cringed because usually It's some yahoo who's seen too many movies.

Shotguns have their place in HD but I prefer something like a Glock with a light mounted if I gotta move anywhere. Forting up is nice but it's not realistic as I'm not going to leave my infant son alone in his room with the BG.

Bowtie
12-31-2010, 11:38
Ah, Bowtie I have no idea why the heck you would paste my statement as not true. It damn sure is true. If I have a gun and he only has a knife or club and comes at me it becomes a gun fight. He is the idiot that brought the knife to the gun fight.

Fair Enough Sir.

Glock21Owner
12-31-2010, 13:48
I would advise against choosing a shotgun as a primary home defense weapon. Tough to maneuver in a tight confine and overpenetration of walls, especially if shooting slugs. Just my experience but I would advise a pistol with +P ammunition, and learning how to use it of course.

JFrame
12-31-2010, 14:08
I have a Mossberg 12 gauge pump under the bed and a brace of revolvers in my nightstand. My wife has a revolver on her side as well.

One backs up the other -- I have no idea which is doing the "backing up."

If the ball drops (hopefully never), I will not necessarily be able to predict the conditions or circumstances. Might as well try to be prepared for as much as possible. :)


.

m24shooter
12-31-2010, 14:24
I would advise against choosing a shotgun as a primary home defense weapon. Tough to maneuver in a tight confine and overpenetration of walls, especially if shooting slugs. Just my experience but I would advise a pistol with +P ammunition, and learning how to use it of course.
In regard to barrier penetration issues, typical duty/defensive JHP loads (which would include +P ammunition) from handguns have typically more penetration than some shotgun defensive/duty loads.
From Doctor G.K.Roberts:
In our IWBA and CHP testing, replicas of standard construction interior walls were fabricated using two pieces of 1/2 thick dry wall cut in 12 x 24 segments and mounted four inches apart using 2 x 4 fir studs and 1.5 dry wall screws. Five rounds of each load were first fired into bare gelatin to serve as controls. Then 5 shots of each load were shot through interior wall segments into gelatin blocks placed a set distance behind the intermediate barriers--various distances have been tested, typically ranging from 1 to 10 feet.

Generally, common service caliber JHP bullets failed to expand and had very deep, excessive penetration after passing through the interior wall, due to plugging of the hollow point. With the hollow point plugged, the bullets performed nearly identically to FMJ pistol bullets. The terminal performance of the 12 ga. 00 buckshot and slugs was not altered by passing through interior wall replicas, with penetration and deformation nearly identical with their performance in bare gelatin.

Glock21Owner
12-31-2010, 17:30
Just offering some real world experience and advice to consider along with what others have said and suggested.

ennis
12-31-2010, 18:29
Thanks for all the input folks. I'm still a relative newcomer here, and I appreciate the various points of view.

I own both shotguns and handguns. My routine is to unload and lock up my house guns every time I leave the house, and reload them when I'm at home. If someone were to enter my house while I was out, they would never know that I even owned a gun. No ammo, back issues of NRA magazines, no Glock hats or tee shirts etc. When I'm home there is a handgun on me. I would have a hard time carrying my shotgun from room to room. I don't think of myself as over the top paranoid, just cautious. I live in the country, and have used my pistols a few times on injured animals that end up on my place.

If I actually thought that a gunfight was imminent, I'd call the police first and then take out my shotgun. My neighbor, thought that someone was lost at the bottom of his drive. He walked out the door and asked if he could help. He got a bunch of small caliber gunfire directed at him. (they missed). He called the Sheriff and the highway patrol. It took them an hour and a half to get there. (That was with a report of shots fired!) Things like that are rare around here, but they can, and did, happen.

What firearm/firearms are within five feet of you as you read this?

ADK_40GLKr
12-31-2010, 18:31
Fire your shotgun once at a target. Notice the pellet pattern.

How long will it take you to do that with your Glock? And the faster you shoot it, the greater spread of your bullet pattern.

Think again about shot capacity.

wrenrj1
12-31-2010, 19:59
Why a shotgun..? First - a shoulder weapon tends to fired more accurately IMO... Secondly - no pistol offered is gonna stop the BS like a scattergun will... Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?

Dad? is that you?:tongueout:

wrenrj1
12-31-2010, 20:03
Fire your shotgun once at a target. Notice the pellet pattern.

How long will it take you to do that with your Glock? And the faster you shoot, the greater spread of your bullet pattern.

Think again about shot capacity.

Better yet, fire it several times with different loads and find the load that's best for you. Realizing that adrenaline kicks in, in any home invasion situation, but 00 buck hurts! I went to #4.

PATRICE
12-31-2010, 20:38
.....

Sheepdog Scout
01-01-2011, 00:32
What firearm/firearms are within five feet of you as you read this?

A Glock 19. A Mossberg 590A1. And a Steyr AUG. (Bullpups are great for tight quarters.):supergrin:

glockuser17
01-01-2011, 01:14
If you need a firearm to defend yourself it becomes a gun fight. So, if you are going to a gun fight, take a shotgun. If you can't take a shotgun, don't go.

Theres an awesome tagline.

ADK_40GLKr
01-01-2011, 12:51
To all involved. Do you keep your shotguns on the nightstand??

870 behind the bedroom door, loaded & chambered.

powder86
01-01-2011, 13:10
Why a shotgun..? First - a shoulder weapon tends to fired more accurately IMO... Secondly - no pistol offered is gonna stop the BS like a scattergun will... Many pistol cartridge play cards together and brag about their ability to stop a fight, but then a 12 ga. busts through the door and pimps slaps them all, drinks their beers, kisses their women, craps in their toilets, urinates on their fire, eats their twinkies, and tells them that it's time to go to bed on a school night... Any questions..?

:rofl:

powder86
01-01-2011, 13:13
In most situations, hunkering down, calling the cops, and aiming at the door is the survivable answer. Use the shotgun as a hallway howitzer. If they come through the door, they're getting 8-32 pellets coming their way in a hurry.

speak it brother!

powder86
01-01-2011, 13:29
within 5 feet of me are all my guns...

and a point no one's brought up yet is cost.
generally speaking, in a HOME defense scenario, you have a pistol in order to fight your way to your long guns, then it serves as a backup weapon. the most affordable long gun i own (besides my .22lr) is my shotgun.
shotguns (generally speaking) are more affordable than a higher caliber rifle. you can get a good police surplus 870 magnum express for 200 or so bucks... and that's way cheaper than any other rifle i could buy that would be put to good use in a CQC fire fight scenario.

so why a shotgun? cuz everything everyone already said and cuz i ain't rich, and though i want an M4 someday, the 200 for a shotgun is more doable for me than the 800+ for an m4.

Mad Ryan
01-01-2011, 16:06
One thing that hugely impacts your HD weapon choice is whether you have kids.

I've got one that's just starting to walk. He's 10months. So I've started locking up the guns.

My HD gun is going to end up being one of my Glocks with a light attached for a couple of reasons...

1) I can easily keep it away from my Son in a quick access pistol safe, and

2) If I were ever to have people break in I would need to secure my Son whom is in another room thus I need to move.