So what's the best base model for a build? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 19:31
Say you were having someone do a build for $2,000-2,500. What would you use for a base model, and what would you have done?

Quack
01-03-2011, 19:32
Colt or Springfield

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 19:34
What model?

thecableguy
01-03-2011, 19:37
To me it would make since to start with a G.I. Like the Springfield. Since I would be changing most of it anyways why pay for the extra stuff that I would just get swapped out anyways.

Quack
01-03-2011, 19:37
the one that you want, because the only thing being used would be the frame & slide.
something with GI sights, then get the slide cut for sights.

not familiar with Colt model's, but probably the SA mil-spec because of the slanted serrations.

Cerebrus
01-03-2011, 19:37
I would go with the Springfield GI, just because it has the nice vertical cocking serrations in the rear and none in the front...

Quack
01-03-2011, 19:40
listening to Ray Saltzman (gunsmith out of Indiana) when he was interviewed, he prefers Colt or Springfields to use as base guns.

http://proarmspodcast.com/2009/07/19/029-a-tale-of-two-gunsmiths/

youngAR
01-03-2011, 19:41
S70 Colt or S.A. Mil-Spec. Possiby a Kimber Series I if the price was right.

thecableguy
01-03-2011, 19:49
Also besides SACS who would you consider for your build?

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 19:50
It's either going to be SACS or Harrison.

Quack
01-03-2011, 19:57
what are you planning on having done?

is that $2000-$2500 on top of the cost of the gun?
if that is the case, the Custom Carry would be a better buy.
For instance if you wanted to make a TRP out of a GI/Mil-spec it would cost $1600 on top of the cost of the gun.

another reason i say that is if the slide/frame fit is loose, then they will have to tighten it up, the most common way is peening, but there is also welding up the frame rails.

bac1023
01-03-2011, 19:58
Colt for me. I don't have a favorite model, but series 70 for sure. :supergrin:


http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_3853-1.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1689.jpg

glock2740
01-03-2011, 20:01
Colt or SA Mil-Spec. Colt if it was gonna be a Commander.

Wade-19
01-03-2011, 20:05
If it was me, I would start with this
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/9a64877d.jpg

and have Chuck turn it into this

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/c976465a.jpg

But that's just me, do what you want with your money :wavey:

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 20:07
what are you planning on having done?

is that $2000-$2500 on top of the cost of the gun?
if that is the case, the Custom Carry would be a better buy.
For instance if you wanted to make a TRP out of a GI/Mil-spec it would cost $1600 on top of the cost of the gun.

another reason i say that is if the slide/frame fit is loose, then they will have to tighten it up, the most common way is peening, but there is also welding up the frame rails.

This is a down-the-road thing. Would want to spend $2,500 max, including base gun. Looking at something full size to compliment the Kobra Carry. So SACS base build, a Harrison package, or possibly a Custom Carry or a Kobra. I have a year or two before I can make it happen, so I have time to figure out what I want to do. Beyond that, I don't really see getting any other high(er) end 1911s.

thecableguy
01-03-2011, 20:11
If it was me, I would start with this
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/9a64877d.jpg

and have Chuck turn it into this

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/c976465a.jpg

But that's just me, do what you want with your money :wavey:

:faint: I wouldn't mind a twin of that one

glock2740
01-03-2011, 20:12
If it was me, I would start with this
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/9a64877d.jpg

and have Chuck turn it into this

http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/c976465a.jpg

But that's just me, do what you want with your money :wavey:
Good call Wade. :thumbsup:

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 20:14
Exactly. Well, minus the flat trigger.

GJ1981
01-03-2011, 20:22
I'm not even a "Colt" guy and would say a 70 series then a SA GI/Mil-Spec.

Colt has some pretty good quality parts from the start, such as the barrel and some of the small parts. This could say you some $ in your build by not having to upgrade.

It may be a preference thing, but if you look at John's upper packages, they are for Colts.

Sure, both the SA or Colt will probably have a looser slide/frame fit than a ground up build, but I wouldn't waste the money to have it tightened unless it was an extreme case.

bac1023
01-03-2011, 20:28
Yeah, I've always preferred Colts for base guns.

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 20:30
I'm not even a "Colt" guy and would say a 70 series then a SA GI/Mil-Spec.

Colt has some pretty good quality parts from the start, such as the barrel and some of the small parts. This could say you some $ in your build by not having to upgrade.

It may be a preference thing, but if you look at John's upper packages, they are for Colts.

Sure, both the SA or Colt will probably have a looser slide/frame fit than a ground up build, but I wouldn't waste the money to have it tightened unless it was an extreme case.


Yeah, I noticed that on his site. But what's a base Colt gonna run? $800-900?

thecableguy
01-03-2011, 20:32
Would it make since to just start with a frame and slide only? Like ordering one from say Caspian and shipping it to the builder or would it not make since from a money stand point?

BeckG19
01-03-2011, 20:35
I would think resale would be better on the colt version.

GJ1981
01-03-2011, 20:36
But what's a base Colt gonna run? $800-900?

In the $800 range. Before JH redid his site he had a note that he could help locate Colts for his upper packages. If he still did that, you'd save a good $70 on shipping one way. Just a thought.


Would it make since to just start with a frame and slide only? Like ordering one from say Caspian and shipping it to the builder or would it not make since from a money stand point?

Some builders won't use Caspian. Not that they aren't good, because they are, but finding casting voids in the worst spots are always possible.

bac1023
01-03-2011, 20:40
Yeah, I noticed that on his site. But what's a base Colt gonna run? $800-900?

About that Paul.

thecableguy
01-03-2011, 20:42
In the $800 range. Before JH redid his site he had a note that he could help locate Colts for his upper packages. If he still did that, you'd save a good $70 on shipping one way. Just a thought.




Some builders won't use Caspian. Not that they aren't good, because they are, but finding casting voids in the worst spots are always possible.

To me that would be the most cost effective way of doing but I guess like you pointed out there is a reason why almost all custom builds are done on already working production guns.

GJ1981
01-03-2011, 20:51
To me that would be the most cost effective way of doing but I guess like you pointed out there is a reason why almost all custom builds are done on already working production guns.

I agree, but the one advantage I'd give the Colt is there are some parts that wouldn't have to be replaced compared to a SA.

I think there are plenty of options for the OP here. A good frame from Wilson, Baer, or even Remsport. Some could be as slide/frame combos or use a Caspian slide with one of those frames.


I'd say this, if SA is going to do the work, I'd just get the Custom Carry. There isn't much of a price difference between a supplied pistol and SA using their frame.

For a custom builder like JH, I think the slide/frame from one of the above or a complete Colt would be the better choice. Just my 2 cents.

rsxr22
01-03-2011, 20:52
I would use a Springer GI as well most likely. Im actually planning on grabbing the next used one we get through the shop. We get them for like $375 so it would save me a good chunk of change. There are a lot of great guys out there, but Roger's is really catching my attention more than anyone else. Chen's work is beautiful, but almost too much imo

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 20:54
I am thinking either a Colt going to JH for the Custom Carry Package...

http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Package.aspx?pid=20
http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Media/Packages/CustomCarry/customcarry1.jpg

...or a Custom Carry with a few options from SACS (FS checkering etc...)

GJ1981
01-03-2011, 21:01
http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Media/Packages/CustomCarry/customcarry1.jpg



Same one I want :thumbsup:

If/When I sell my Pro, it will be mine with a few additions.


Dollar to dollar, I think you'll get a few more things(barrel, checkering) out of the SA build, but there are some things (attention to detail) the JH would give that the other won't.

Glad I don't have to make the decision.

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 21:05
Same one I want :thumbsup:

If/When I sell my Pro, it will be mine with a few additions.


Dollar to dollar, I think you'll get a few more things(barrel, checkering) out of the SA build, but there are some things (attention to detail) the JH would give that the other won't.

Glad I don't have to make the decision.

I'm with you, I think I'd personally rather have something done by JH....something unique. I think the 20LPI FS/MSH serrations would be fine, or maybe I would have him scallop instead. Dunno. I've got time. From the build specs...I didn't see flush crowned barrel as something included, but the pic shows it. I would have that done too.

GJ1981
01-03-2011, 21:12
I'm with you, I think I'd personally rather have something done by JH....something unique.

I should have done just that. I think I'll like my second CC, but I bought it when I was really up on the SA kool-aid.

If I had it to do over, I'd have a JH in the works.

If you like the deep crowns, SA won't do them...just and FYI.

I think that package would be sweet with a rounded Chen MSH, which is one of the things I'd add.

http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Media/Services/806.jpg

thecableguy
01-03-2011, 21:12
Paul I don't think you could go wrong with that Harrison. That is sharp. Me I would love to have one like Wades' or this other build by Chuck.
http://www.rogersprecision.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/s13.jpg
This is awesome. 10-8 rear sight and gold dot front sight would be the only changes I would make.

Hokie1911
01-03-2011, 21:19
If you like the deep crowns, SA won't do them...just and FYI.

I think that package would be sweet with a rounded Chen MSH, which is one of the things I'd add.



Yeah, I definitely want the front end done. That roundbooty is awesome, that's a nice add.

Cobra64
01-03-2011, 22:54
I chose the Pony. :)

My Colt WWI 1918 is the donor destined for custom work. All the guts will get thrown out and replaced with premium parts and tuned for accuracy and smooth, light trigger.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Colt%201911%20WWI%201918/RIGHT10.jpg

Cobra64
01-03-2011, 23:04
Colt has some pretty good quality parts from the start, such as the barrel and some of the small parts. This could say you some $ in your build by not having to upgrade.

I disagree. Note gross machining on slide, barrel and the snapped extractor in a brand new Colt WWI 1918.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Colt%201911%20WWI%201918/P1040085.jpg


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Colt%201911%20WWI%201918/P1040092.jpg

bac1023
01-04-2011, 05:06
I am thinking either a Colt going to JH for the Custom Carry Package...

http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Package.aspx?pid=20
http://www.harrisoncustom.com/Media/Packages/CustomCarry/customcarry1.jpg



:thumbsup:

Wade-19
01-04-2011, 05:21
Paul I don't think you could go wrong with that Harrison. That is sharp. Me I would love to have one like Wades' or this other build by Chuck.
http://www.rogersprecision.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/s13.jpg
This is awesome. 10-8 rear sight and gold dot front sight would be the only changes I would make.

You wouldn't want to change the sights after you checked out the "Tier One" sights on that gun.

glock2740
01-04-2011, 08:32
Paul I don't think you could go wrong with that Harrison. That is sharp. Me I would love to have one like Wades' or this other build by Chuck.
http://www.rogersprecision.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/s13.jpg
This is awesome. 10-8 rear sight and gold dot front sight would be the only changes I would make.
Great looking gun.

You wouldn't want to change the sights after you checked out the "Tier One" sights on that gun.
I agree.

PlasticGuy
01-04-2011, 11:13
I think Colt quality is highly overrated. HOWEVER, I always go with Colt for a full custom build. The things that Colt is slipping on would be corrected in a build of that level anyway.

I'd suggest either a Series 70 or one of the WWI re-issues, although I used a Series 80 for one of mine because I occasionally contract with companies that require a mechanical drop safe.

BlayGlock
01-04-2011, 11:22
Taurus...

Although I dont see why you would need it customized because it already has $2k worth of custom features.

Hokie1911
01-04-2011, 11:24
Taurus

NOW you're talking! :thumbsup:

Why would I want a John Harrison build when I could have the precision and majesty of the Taurus Custom Shop.

woodrowNC
01-04-2011, 17:06
I disagree. Note gross machining on slide, barrel and the snapped extractor in a brand new Colt WWI 1918.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Colt%201911%20WWI%201918/P1040085.jpg


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/1911/Colt%201911%20WWI%201918/P1040092.jpg


gross machining doesn't mean they're not quality parts.

PlasticGuy
01-04-2011, 17:12
gross machining doesn't mean they're not quality parts.
Using good steel is only important if it is machined and fitted properly.

woodrowNC
01-04-2011, 17:37
Using good steel is only important if it is machined and fitted properly.

using good steel is always important.

PlasticGuy
01-04-2011, 18:12
using good steel is always important.
A poorly fitted barrel made of excellent steel will still shoot like crap. Poorly fitted trigger components will make for a crappy trigger pull even if the steel is good. Good steel makes for good potential. The final result is up to the builder.

Cobra64
01-04-2011, 18:23
gross machining doesn't mean they're not quality parts.

Do you think that crap is quality? A nine year old girl with a hack saw could produce a better extractor than Colt did in a $1,000 pistol.

Fit and finish is an element of the definition of quality.

AZ Husker
01-04-2011, 18:23
For $2500 total, I'd go with an Ed Brown and let one man stand behind the product. I've got a stainless Kobra Carry that I love. That said, I've got a stainless Colt S70 repro that I've had quite a bit of work done to, and it's a wonderful shooter. I would not spend $500 on a Brazilian made gun then dump another $2K into it.

Cobra64
01-04-2011, 18:24
A poorly fitted barrel made of excellent steel will still shoot like crap. Poorly fitted trigger components will make for a crappy trigger pull even if the steel is good. Good steel makes for good potential. The final result is up to the builder.

Exactly. This concept ain't rocket science.

woodrowNC
01-04-2011, 18:46
A poorly fitted barrel made of excellent steel will still shoot like crap. Poorly fitted trigger components will make for a crappy trigger pull even if the steel is good. Good steel makes for good potential. The final result is up to the builder.

don't get me wrong. I'm agreeing with you. but you have to start somewhere. good material is it. from a manufacturing view, you can tell 50 machinists to hit the bricks if they're not worth a crap but once you've took delivery of 20 tons of steel, you're frigged.

but the two definately go hand in hand. imagine the enthusiasum in the kimber plant 10,12 yrs ago when they had high quality materials, low production rates, and something similar to a zero defect policy. they were making the best 600 1911 in the world, kicking everybodys axx, espescially colts, to my everlasting consternation.:embarassed: i certainly see your point. but it must be both ways.

bac1023
01-04-2011, 18:48
Taurus...

Although I dont see why you would need it customized because it already has $2k worth of custom features.

:rofl:

bac1023
01-04-2011, 18:49
I think Colt quality is highly overrated. HOWEVER, I always go with Colt for a full custom build. The things that Colt is slipping on would be corrected in a build of that level anyway.

I'd suggest either a Series 70 or one of the WWI re-issues, although I used a Series 80 for one of mine because I occasionally contract with companies that require a mechanical drop safe.

:goodpost:

I agree with everythin stated. :)

woodrowNC
01-04-2011, 18:58
Do you think that crap is quality? A nine year old girl with a hack saw could produce a better extractor than Colt did in a $1,000 pistol.

Fit and finish is an element of the definition of quality.

i was speaking in general. you see poorly machined parts in a firearm and you then say every part colt makes is crap. go pick any mass produced 1911, let me detail strip it and i'll show you the same. perhaps. you may pick up 100 more colts and not see that again.