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verdugo60
01-04-2011, 01:31
Appreciate all you cops for the tough jobs you do with honesty and self sacrifice. Thanks.

My question is if any of you are US Marshals on here. I am in school, finishing up my bachelors and might have a chance to intern for the marshals office in my town. Sounds like a fun internship, and possible career, just curious if there are any of you that hang out here. Would love to hear the different paths you can take in the usms, and what you like best about your particular job. Thanks guys.

**This thread has changed directions a bit, see my last post on page 3**!

ClydeG19
01-04-2011, 03:37
I know there are one or two around here. I've only ever met one marshal personally and he seemed quite happy with his career.

http://www.usmarshals.gov/careers/duties.html

TexasSchool Cop
01-04-2011, 07:31
I am assigned to a USMS task force and know just a little about their career paths. Most everyone I work with on the fugitive side is happy with their jobs. All however had to spend their time in the "Operations" side being what they call a "Court Monkey". Their words not mine. That consists on running the cell block, prisoner transport, sitting in court all day long etc.

There are other paths you can take once you are in a while and get your "Criminal Investigator" designation. I look at their home page outlines all the opportunities to work in areas like WitSec, SOG, TOG etc. Plenty of special assignments to work details on high threat trials and protective work. They are a very versatile group. Only downside is that their journey man level is GS-12 not GS-13 like most other Federal Agency 1811's. However even with that I don't see any of the guys going to transfer to other agencies. Most really like what they do.

verdugo60
01-04-2011, 10:48
I am assigned to a USMS task force and know just a little about their career paths. Most everyone I work with on the fugitive side is happy with their jobs. All however had to spend their time in the "Operations" side being what they call a "Court Monkey". Their words not mine. That consists on running the cell block, prisoner transport, sitting in court all day long etc.

There are other paths you can take once you are in a while and get your "Criminal Investigator" designation. I look at their home page outlines all the opportunities to work in areas like WitSec, SOG, TOG etc. Plenty of special assignments to work details on high threat trials and protective work. They are a very versatile group. Only downside is that their journey man level is GS-12 not GS-13 like most other Federal Agency 1811's. However even with that I don't see any of the guys going to transfer to other agencies. Most really like what they do.

Huh, that's good to know. So you probably end up being a "court monkey" when starting, then with more experience can transfer to something you like more. Sounds fair. Fugitive task force is what they are most famous for, thanks to Mr. Tommy Lee Jones, but what about witness protection, security, etc? I understand protecting witnesses to and from court, but do they also run the witness protection program? As in, new identity, different part of the country?

Also curious about duty weapon, probably a Glock .40? I know that's standard issue for FBI. GS12 would probably be ok, if they are paying for my ammo.

Esox357
01-04-2011, 11:31
Not sure but you may even be able to go in as a 1801 Detention Enforcement Officer and work your way up to a 1811? The job is very competitive and the Federal Govt, is on a hiring freeze/crunch? Good Luck. Esox357.

SuperSleuth
01-04-2011, 13:59
I hope I'm not going out of bounds by posting here. I'm not LE or USMS, but at one time I was very interested in a career with USMS and did a lot of research. This is based on online and offline research, as well as advice from DUSMs. My info is a few years old, so maybe someone more current can chime in.

The USMS website is a good starting place. There's a lot of information there.

Your first few years on the job will be spent handling/transporting prisoners and securing court rooms. Depending on the size of the district you're in, there may be opportunities to assist with other tasks, like fugitive investigations. From what I understand, the smaller the district the better opportunities there are for getting involved in other tasks.

Career-wise, after you obtain your 1811 status you can go into supervisory or specialist positions. The specialists are Inspectors and are usually in one of 3 areas: Investigations (i.e. fugitives), Witness Security, and Judicial Security. If I'm not mistaken, I believe Inspectors are non-supervisory GS-13, but I could be mistaken. They're definitely at least GS-12.

USMS does operate the witness protection program.

Be careful with assignments to DC. DC Superior Court deputies essentially function like county sheriff's in DC, and perform tasks such as evictions and process service that other districts don't do. DC District Court is more in-line with other USMS districts. If you're offered DC, make sure you know which one you're being offered. I've heard it can be difficult to transfer out of DC Superior Court.

I believe you have to have at least 3 years in your current district if you want to transfer to a different district, and the transfer request may not be approved depending on the needs of the district.

Be in excellent shape. Ideally you want to be able to score at least in the Excellent category for the run, push-ups, and sit-ups portion of the fitness guidelines listed on their website. One piece of advice I got was to be very good with distance running. By the time you start the academy you should be able to run 5 miles in 45 minutes. I don't know if they still do it, but there's the Marshal Mile, usually run a day or two before graduation, that involves a 10-mile run with calisthenics mixed in. Physical training at the USMS academy is on par with Border Patrol and ATF in terms of intensity.

The CO-OP program is the only way in, right now, at least that I'm aware of. There was also the FCIP program, but I think that's on hold for now. They just had a wave of hiring a couple of years ago, so it may be a while before they start that up again. If you can get accepted into the CO-OP program, I believe that you are essentially guaranteed a slot in the training academy to become a DUSM, presuming good performance and successful completion of the CO-OP. In addition to the usual background screening, you will also be tested according to the fitness guidelines previously mentioned. I believe they recommend applying during your junior year if you want to do the program during your senior year. Also, while you may be guaranteed an academy slot after the CO-OP, there's no guarantee about the timing; it may be a while before you're able to attend, so keep that in mind.

The Detention Enforcement Officer/Aviation Enforcement Officer are other possible routes into the USMS, but they generally require at least 1 year of experience working in jails/prisons. Some places I've heard it's easier to move from DEO to DUSM, other places it's harder, so it's kind of a gamble with that approach, imo.

FYI, each district usually has a recruiter. You should be able to find their contact infomation on the USMS website. The recruiter would be your best source of information.

I hope this at least gives you some good starting points for your own research. And please research this yourself; as I said, the info I provided may not be currently accurate.

Good luck!

TexasSchool Cop
01-04-2011, 14:03
Yes they do run the Witness Protection program, but it is highly competitive to get one of those slots It requires a TS clearance and you gotta remember, in most cases you are dealing with crooks that have cut a deal in court. Not your everyday citizen.

. All the DUSM's I work with carry the Glock 22.

Don't forget the age cutoff of 37. You have to be hires by that time. Good luck. I have a blast working with them and have been exposed to some stuff that I never would have been exposed to before.

verdugo60
01-04-2011, 14:43
Super Sleauth, thanks for that detailed post, that was great. I don't think you were out of line at all, as you obviously put alot of time into researching the job yourself. Can I ask why you didn't end up trying for the USMS?

Thanks for the other posts everyone else! FYI, I am actually transferring to a school that does the CO-OP program, (not cause of that but it's a bonus) and will be about halfway through my Junior year there this summer or Fall. I did speak with the USMS recruiter here in Boise, and he was the one that told me about CSEP. Now I have to work on my grades, getting back in better shape and talk with the proffessor at my school who runs the CSEP program.

verdugo60
01-04-2011, 14:46
Yes they do run the Witness Protection program, but it is highly competitive to get one of those slots It requires a TS clearance and you gotta remember, in most cases you are dealing with crooks that have cut a deal in court. Not your everyday citizen.

. All the DUSM's I work with carry the Glock 22.

Don't forget the age cutoff of 37. You have to be hires by that time. Good luck. I have a blast working with them and have been exposed to some stuff that I never would have been exposed to before.

Thanks man, appreciate the info and the good luck! I thought the age cutoff was 36, but it may have changed. I'm 26, so I have some time, but the sooner the better obviously. Just curious, are you State or Local LEO? Kinda wondered about the taskforce. The website says the USMS's fill more warrants than any other LEO branch combined! That's cool.

verdugo60
01-04-2011, 14:49
I guess being on Witness Protection wouldn't be as cool if you have protect slimeball's that were the first to turn on their slimeball buddies. Protecting good people in that program would be neat though.

SuperSleuth
01-04-2011, 15:00
Super Sleauth, thanks for that detailed post, that was great. I don't think you were out of line at all, as you obviously put alot of time into researching the job yourself. Can I ask why you didn't end up trying for the USMS?

You're welcome. As for me, at the time I was researching the USMS I was already out of college and it was before the FCIP hiring wave. My main interest was in the Judicial Security program. I ended up focusing on 1811 positions. Out of 40+ applications to different agencies, the only one I made any progress with was the Postal Inspection Service. I made it to the hiring pool just as they initiated their hiring freeze in 2008. I had just missed the last academy. They've done some sporadic hiring in the past year, but I've decided to focus my efforts towards the forensic side, specifically death investigations. Plus, I'll be 37 this year, which will eliminate me from every 1811 position I'm aware of.

Thanks for the other posts everyone else! FYI, I am actually transferring to a school that does the CO-OP program, (not cause of that but it's a bonus) and will be about halfway through my Junior year there this summer or Fall. I did speak with the USMS recruiter here in Boise, and he was the one that told me about CSEP. Now I have to work on my grades, getting back in better shape and talk with the proffessor at my school who runs the CSEP program.

Best of luck to you!

dlrow
01-04-2011, 20:09
You're welcome. As for me, at the time I was researching the USMS I was already out of college and it was before the FCIP hiring wave. My main interest was in the Judicial Security program. I ended up focusing on 1811 positions. Out of 40+ applications to different agencies, the only one I made any progress with was the Postal Inspection Service. I made it to the hiring pool just as they initiated their hiring freeze in 2008. I had just missed the last academy. They've done some sporadic hiring in the past year, but I've decided to focus my efforts towards the forensic side, specifically death investigations. Plus, I'll be 37 this year, which will eliminate me from every 1811 position I'm aware of.



Best of luck to you!

It might make a difference. The cut off is typically 37.5. Six months might make a difference for you.

FWIW I understand that the marshals took longer to reach the journeyman level. I was told that they spent two years as a 7, two at a 9, two at an 11. YMMV.

IMO the USMS are, by far, the best physically conditioned students at fletc. The USMS instructors were pretty rough on the USMS students when I was at fletc.

Hack
01-04-2011, 21:31
You're welcome. As for me, at the time I was researching the USMS I was already out of college and it was before the FCIP hiring wave. My main interest was in the Judicial Security program. I ended up focusing on 1811 positions. Out of 40+ applications to different agencies, the only one I made any progress with was the Postal Inspection Service. I made it to the hiring pool just as they initiated their hiring freeze in 2008. I had just missed the last academy. They've done some sporadic hiring in the past year, but I've decided to focus my efforts towards the forensic side, specifically death investigations. Plus, I'll be 37 this year, which will eliminate me from every 1811 position I'm aware of.



Best of luck to you!
If you got on with a BOP facility as a staff member of any type, including officer before your cut off you would have a chance. If interested check with the BOP in their web site. They have areas that are in sore need of personnel meaning that they might try to get you in before your 37th birthday. After you are officially in you can do your time for a year and then go to another fed LE agency.

SuperSleuth
01-04-2011, 22:01
dlrow and Hack, thanks for the advice regarding the age limit. It's actually a minor point as I've decided to go a different route, career-wise, for other reasons. I really appreciate the help, though.

scottydl
01-04-2011, 22:21
Protecting good people in that program would be neat though.

This would be rare.

protect slimeball's that were the first to turn on their slimeball buddies.

This would be the norm. ;) Just so you know.

If you are young enough and detached enough to be able to take a fed job and move all around the country... do it. I didn't have that mindset coming out of college (wish I had) and now 10 years later I'm in a different place with family and career that prevents me from really going anywhere. It's a little sad to think "what could have been", but not really as I'm happy with life. :cool:

Definitely go for the USMS internship if that's an open door. Regardless of whether or not you choose the agency for a career, I'm sure it will be an interesting experience and a nice line on the resume. A buddy of mine had that internship several years back and reflects positively on it. He is now working his LE career in a state agency, but has a long-term goal of someday being appointed as THE district U.S. Marshal here. It's a political appointment, like U.S. Attorneys, and is a gig that usually only lasts 4-8 years depending on how long your politician (that appointed you) stays in office.

lawman800
01-04-2011, 23:11
We were recruited hardcore by various alphabet agencies while we all were in law school and there were 8 of us that worked for the USAO so we had direct contact with them the whole time.

ATF, DEA, FBI, USSS, USMS, and even DSS talked to us and tried to get us interested.

However, out of everybody, the USMS guys came out and told us straight up, "I love my agency, but don't do it. With your education, you would be so bored and fed up that you would hate it."

The starting scale is GS-5 back then which was a whopping $26k a year while ATF can start at GS-7 or GS-9, DEA started at GS-9, and FBI started at GS-10. That's a big difference.

He also said while SOG, WitSec, and fugitives are fun, most people get stuck with custody and court duty. Some get dignitary protection for federal judges who get threatened. He said it's the worse gig... driving vans full of perps or standing in court in a suit. Didn't make it sound very appealing.

They do have the coolest badges though.

verdugo60
01-06-2011, 09:54
I thought USMS sounded pretty fun, but some hated that gig huh? It could be a good opportunity with the co-op program, as I could work during my senior year in the office, get GS4 and benefits during that time, and would have a job right out of college. I did hear that at fletc they make those guys go through a lot physically. Seems ironic they get in top shape to sit in court for three years.

To all you guys that have researched fed LE, what are some other good options? I could graduate with a BA in a year and a half in Sociology. I am considering spending an extra semester in school to retake a few classes to raise my gpa before applying for the co-op, so that would be four semesters.

I have looked at FBI, but I know its very competitive, and don't love the Hoover ideology of getting shipped across the country for ten years.

I'm fluent in Spanish, but the Border Patrol seems like its getting more and more dangerous, with higher-ups in admin backing up their agents less and less in cases of deadly force and other policies.

ATF? Don't love some of their missions on firearms, but could be a good alternative to usms if it doesn't work out.

I know there are other less obvious ones too like ICE, DEA, Postal inspectors. Not into CIA, or Secret Service.

Don't own a house, don't mind moving but would prefer to stay in the west for most of career. Wife is a dental hygenist, so she can work anywhere just has to get liscenced in each state.

If you were 26, no kids, in my position what advice would you give to yourself knowing what you know now?

Thanks for all the info and advice guys!

scottydl
01-06-2011, 10:34
Seems ironic they get in top shape to sit in court for three years.

That's how all the fed agencies are... heck, that's how most of law enforcement is, with little to no physical upkeep requirements once you're hired.

If you were 26, no kids, in my position what advice would you give to yourself knowing what you know now?

You may already realize this, but you are in a !GREAT! position, provided that your wife supports you moving wherever. Family support is key to emotional survival in LE. Nationwide mobility will also be key for advancement in the fed system, although USMS has been turning back toward keeping agents "local" to their home area. That could change again tho.

My advice is don't discriminate this early. If you want to go fed, then apply/test for everything. It's pretty easy these days with the online application process. Even the agencies that you say now "don't interest me" ... that may just be where you end up having a great career. Or it may just be good practice to go through a few interviews for practice. Almost all the fed interviews/scenarios are the same, or at least very similar. The more you go through the process, the better chance you'll have at making the cut when it matters.

These days, veterans returning from the Middle East are getting a LOT of fed jobs over college grads. A soldier may be trained as an intel analyst for instance, but once in the sandbox they end up doing a completely different job; however upon returning, they get credit from fed LEA's for doing the intel job for however long they were deployed. I support the military 110% but I do think that jobs anywhere should go to the person most qualified. Regardless, that's not always the case so you'll need to keep your options open to get the edge over others competing for the same jobs.

verdugo60
01-06-2011, 12:09
Thanks Scottydl. I know I am lucky, because originally the wife didn't want to be a LE or Army wife at all. She actually likes that I would hang out in boring court! My career is important, but the reason for it is to support my family. I like that I could likely stay in the region with USMS. Also, with my degree I think I would start at GS7 after graduating, and with the co-op I would be at GS4 while IN school, which is nice. Also wouldn't have to compete with MIL as much with co-op. Once in the program, I go to fletc for sure after graduating unless I screw up big.

So, USMS is ideal for now, but if it doesn't work or I hate it, what would be other good places to start after college? I guess once I am in the Fed system, its much easier to transfer.

Glock-em-all
01-06-2011, 18:23
I work frequently with DUSM's and the Fugitive Task Force where I live. In the District I'm in, there are 4 DUSM's in that office and I have become big buds with one of them. They do it all, but court takes priority. But this district tries to get them on the street and they have have set up Task Force's in different surrounding counties utilizing local LE's to have the necessary manpower when called upon. This District while working their Federal warrants are actively involved with the local agencies assisting on their warrants. I can tell you, their hours are often brutal. But I have found different districts have different priorites. This district is all about working with Locals and warrants. Other districts may not be, but Court and transporting prisoners is their main duty. I understand in larger districts, places like Super court in DC and NYC, your doing court unless your lucky enough to have seniorty or be on a Warrant Squad but again, court comes first.
Good luck in your ventures. Im fortunate that I love my job after 16 years. I was once in the final hiring phase with the USMS, but a hiring freeze hit and I got too old (only way to phrase it LOL). But, looking back, don't know if my marriage and child schedule due to the spouses employment could have withstood the USMS demanding work schedule. But I've had the pleasure of working with DUSM's in three different states on several occasions and always found them top notch, methotical planners and always welcomed me along.

AngryBassets
01-06-2011, 18:42
I've had some exposure to the USM task force out of Camden (one of my best friends was detailed there from our agency--he was on Manhunters--lol). They seem like a happy, squared away-- albeit crazy-- group.

Another friend of mine is a Postal Inspector. He seems to like his job, too. I was involved in a search warrant service with him a few weeks ago for kiddie pr0n.

SuperSleuth
01-06-2011, 19:51
To all you guys that have researched fed LE, what are some other good options? I could graduate with a BA in a year and a half in Sociology. I am considering spending an extra semester in school to retake a few classes to raise my gpa before applying for the co-op, so that would be four semesters.

If you were 26, no kids, in my position what advice would you give to yourself knowing what you know now?

If I were in your place, I would seriously consider looking for an OIG gig. A lot of federal departments/agencies have Offices of the Inspector General. They're tasked with investigating fraud, waste, and abuse within the agency. Most of them have 1811 criminal investigators. You could potentially get into some interesting areas of investigation, depending on the agency. For example, Agriculture OIG 1811s investigate food stamp fraud, and I believe some of them have been on USMS fugitive task forces. The Social Security Administration OIG gets involved in a lot identity theft cases; I think they may even have some 1811s on JTTFs, but I'm not sure.

I would look to see what OIG are in your area and see if you can talk to some of their investigators, or maybe a SAC/ASAC, and ask them about the job. Also look into doing an internship/co-op with them. The thing about most OIG agencies, from what I've heard, is that hiring is decentralized, with each SAC hiring for his/her offices. If you can get in with an internship/co-op, and show them how good a job you can do, it might help open the door to a full-time position. However, be aware that a lot of these agencies often prefer to hire someone who's already an 1811, though it's certainly not always the case. One more thing...OIG often have faster hiring tracks than the larger agencies. I've heard that 2-3 months from application to start date is not uncommon, where 1-2 years is fast for the larger agencies. I was in the process with USPIS for 3 years, and I knew of people that had been in the process for 5+ years.

I've also heard that most OIG generally work typical business hours (well, at least 50 hrs/wk for LEAP), with exceptions made for investigations, i.e., needing to execute a search warrant during early morning hours or needing to conduct surveillance operations. That might be important to you and your wife.

It's probably not the kind of work for someone who wants to kick down doors and arrest bad guys, and OIG tend to focus on more long-term investigations (think 1-2 years).

Here's a good resource: http://www.ignet.gov/

Again, this is just based on the litte bit of research I've done. You asked what I would do in your place, and this is what I would probably do as I prefer the more analytical, investigative aspects of the work. Whatever you choose to do, start with what interests you about working in LE, and try to find an agency that focuses on, or at least incorporates, those interests.

FYI, being fluent in Spanish will likely give you an edge, regardless of what agency you apply to.

Hack
01-06-2011, 22:00
Verdugo:

http://www.usa.gov/Agencies/Federal/All_Agencies/index.shtml

Look at those. There are plenty of agencies, some which are not LE but have LE positions, which may be suitable for employment for you. You are in a good position for getting yourself established now in FED LE.

My agency, with all of its warts and wrinkles is known as a good jumping off spot within FED LE. I'm with the BOP which you are aware of if you look at my information. I have known people who went to ICE, Air Marshals, Marshals, Border Patrol, U. S. Treasury, and of course FBI. Other people stay and move up within my agency, while others are satisfied to go up a few steps and stay put. There are all kinds of opportunities, but be aware that the most needed agencies are the ones who are least likely to give you a RIF letter when times get tough. Good hunting.

verdugo60
01-06-2011, 23:52
Wow Gents, thanks for all the great info. Supersleauth, OIG might be exactly the kind of thing that would work for me and my family. Thanks for that, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy being a door kicker, but my wife and future kids come before my delusions of bad@$$ grandeur. So, usms have a lot of crazy hours? Would that be just in certain offices or across the board? I kinda had the idea that they had a bit more normal hours, because of the court thing. That's something to think about. This internship could be a great way to learn how they operate.

SuperSleuth
01-07-2011, 00:52
Wow Gents, thanks for all the great info. Supersleauth, OIG might be exactly the kind of thing that would work for me and my family. Thanks for that, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Not that I wouldn't enjoy being a door kicker, but my wife and future kids come before my delusions of bad@$$ grandeur. So, usms have a lot of crazy hours? Would that be just in certain offices or across the board? I kinda had the idea that they had a bit more normal hours, because of the court thing. That's something to think about. This internship could be a great way to learn how they operate.

This is just my understanding of it, not to mention the differences among the districts, but when you start you're an 0082 DUSM. While you're an 0082 you pretty much work court hours because otherwise they'd have to pay OT. Of course, if something is going on and they require additional manpower, such as during one of their fugitive sweeps or a high-profile trial, that could change. Once you're an 1811 (which I think now happens when you reach GS-9) then it's pretty much anything goes, depending on the needs of the USMS. And, as I said before, this information may not be current.

FWIW, you could always be a DUSM for a few years, get some experience and your 1811 status, then apply to an OIG.

As Hack said, there are several lesser-known federal LE agencies. I think I read somewhere that there are around 200 of them. Some of them are small, like the Library of Congress OIG, which I think has 2 1811s. EPA-CID (which I applied to multiple times without success) has about 200.

I know you said you weren't interested in the US Secret Service, but I believe they have an internship program, as well as the Postal Inspectors. I had a classmate once who did the USPIS internship and she said she actually got to assist in their investigations. I mentioned USSS because I've heard that a number of OIG agencies like to hire USSS 1811s. I've heard of several OIG 1811s who spent a few years working for the USSS before making the change. Just something to think about.

Just make sure to do your research, particularly if you're planning on talking to anyone in the agencies you're considering. You want them to know you're taking this seriously and at least know the basics of their agency (agency mission, types of cases worked, key leadership, etc.).

ETA: I believe the USMS co-op program is competitive, i.e., you have to apply and be accepted. It might be prudent to check around for other opportunities in case it doesn't happen. However, if you do get the opportunity, I would definitely take it. If you do well it can only help you.

lawman800
01-07-2011, 02:18
Yeah, look around, you will be amazed how many federal LE agencies there are... I was amazed at the different uniformed and plainclothes LE they had. Library of Congress Police, Congress Police, Capitol Police, US Park Rangers, IG's for every department, Postal Police, Postal Inspectors, Veteran's Affairs Police, Department of Defense Police, Department of Energy Police, Department of Justice IG, Secret Service Uniformed Division, FPS Police, 1811 investigators everywhere (IRS, USCIS, ICE, ATF, DEA, USSS, FBI), Diplomatic Security, Air Marshals, Deportation Officers, Bureau of Prisons, CIA Police, Pentagon Police, and I haven't even scratched the surface....

You sure you want to go federal? What is the allure of going federal for you? There is this thing that a lot of outsiders think of when they see federal and think there is some magical jurisdictional power or prestige... but really... feds are just different, not better or worse.

There are things that the state or local LE have that are way better... such as starting pay or pensions depending on locale, stability of work location, different mission and promotion abilities if you work for a metro agency that has many divisions or bureaus instead of a federal agency that might be more limited in what they do, etc.

BTW, nothing beats street patrol. You can always go plainclothes or detectives later on, but a good police man starts in patrol. That is your foundation for everything. I have never met a good cop working in any capacity that didn't start out as a good patrolman.

TexasSchool Cop
01-07-2011, 09:33
Thanks man, appreciate the info and the good luck! I thought the age cutoff was 36, but it may have changed. I'm 26, so I have some time, but the sooner the better obviously. Just curious, are you State or Local LEO? Kinda wondered about the taskforce. The website says the USMS's fill more warrants than any other LEO branch combined! That's cool.

I am a local LEO with a Special Deputation as a "Special Deputy US Marshal. I serve on the Lone Star Fugitive Task Force in Texas.

verdugo60
01-07-2011, 12:33
All good reasoning Super. The co-op is pretty competitive, the recruiter told me his boss places more emphasis on the interview than on gpa. If I get it, great, if not I have more info about an agency I may work with. Plus I'll be in better shape, which will be important for any 1811. The post office does OIC internships huh? I should look into that too. An internship seems like a great way to get experience and maybe circumvent the long process of applying during a general hiring period.

verdugo60
01-08-2011, 08:40
Lawman, that's a good question. The reason for Fed is partly for the higher salary and benefits, and also I expected some better hours. The biggest thing is my wife though. She has a real fear of traffic cops, just because she gets so nervous about being pulled over. I know it seems silly, but she has a real issue with it. It kinda annoys me, but we are working on it. She is ok with the idea of non-cop LEO, ha, but not regular, local Leo. I know , I know, its crazy, but as newly wed I'm learning to pick my battles.


What other small agencies could I look at for doing an internship or getting hired as an 1811, after graduating?

B]Yeah, look around, you will be amazed how many federal LE agencies there are... I was amazed at the different uniformed and plainclothes LE they had. Library of Congress Police, Congress Police, Capitol Police, US Park Rangers, IG's for every department, Postal Police, Postal Inspectors, Veteran's Affairs Police, Department of Defense Police, Department of Energy Police, Department of Justice IG, Secret Service Uniformed Division, FPS Police, 1811 investigators everywhere (IRS, USCIS, ICE, ATF, DEA, USSS, FBI), Diplomatic Security, Air Marshals, Deportation Officers, Bureau of Prisons, CIA Police, Pentagon Police, and I haven't even scratched the surface....

You sure you want to go federal? What is the allure of going federal for you? There is this thing that a lot of outsiders think of when they see federal and think there is some magical jurisdictional power or prestige... but really... feds are just different, not better or worse.

There are things that the state or local LE have that are way better... such as starting pay or pensions depending on locale, stability of work location, different mission an


d promotion abilities if you work for a metro agency that has many divisions or bureaus instead of a federal agency that might be more limited in what they do, etc.

BTW, nothing beats street patrol. You can always go plainclothes or detectives later on, but a good police man starts in patrol. That is your foundation for everything. I have never met a good cop working in any capacity that didn't start out as a good patrolman.

AggiePhil
01-08-2011, 10:38
The biggest thing is my wife though. She has a real fear of traffic cops, just because she gets so nervous about being pulled over. I know it seems silly, but she has a real issue with it. It kinda annoys me, but we are working on it. She is ok with the idea of non-cop LEO, ha, but not regular, local Leo. I know , I know, its crazy, but as newly wed I'm learning to pick my battles.

I'm sorry but that's the dumbest thing I've heard all week. :faint:

verdugo60
01-08-2011, 13:29
Not really looking for opinions on that. It's the way it is, and I'm not going to defend it, but I don't need to hear how dumb it is either.

QUOTE=AggiePhil;16605348]I'm sorry but that's the dumbest thing I've heard all week. :

faint:[/QUOTE]

scottydl
01-08-2011, 15:15
Even in the fed system it's very likely that you will be working with state/county/local agencies, and still doing "regular cop" stuff. Just something for your wife to be aware of, so it doesn't come up as an issue later. Either way, getting to the bottom of her fear overall may be helpful for her (and your) long-term mental health. I'm guessing that getting to know some cops and realizing that they're regular folks just like the rest of us might help her. You think she'd be open to a ride-along or "citizen police academy" type of PR program with your local agency? Just an idea.

AngryBassets
01-08-2011, 15:29
BTW, nothing beats street patrol. You can always go plainclothes or detectives later on, but a good police man starts in patrol. That is your foundation for everything. I have never met a good cop working in any capacity that didn't start out as a good patrolman.

Quoted for religious reasons, as this is true gospel to me.

I am a local LEO with a Special Deputation as a "Special Deputy US Marshal. I serve on the Lone Star Fugitive Task Force in Texas.

I was a SDUSM for a week during Operation Falcon last year. For those 5 days, I was hung like a stallion in heat.

scottydl
01-08-2011, 15:39
The best federal/state agents I've ever worked with were former "real" cops, I agree with those statements above. But the OP has a "life stage" opportunity to be able to jump in with a fed agency and go anywhere nationwide for a few years (which is probably what would happen). That would become more difficult if he got hired by a local PD for 3-5 years, got settled, had a kid or two, etc.

verdugo60
01-08-2011, 16:59
Even in the fed system it's very likely that you will be working with state/county/local agencies, and still doing "regular cop" stuff. Just something for your wife to be aware of, so it doesn't come up as an issue later. Either way, getting to the bottom of her fear overall may be helpful for her (and your) long-term mental health. I'm guessing that getting to know some cops and realizing that they're regular folks just like the rest of us might help her. You think she'd be open to a ride-along or "citizen police academy" type of PR program with your local agency? Just an idea.

Yeah, even before we got married we had a few discussions about this. I have talked to her about her fears with local police, because her attitude bothered me. I have always had a natural friendship with cops, I loved my street law class in High School where we learned alot about LE and how normal and funny most cops can be.

It comes down to this: she has the personality where to her the worst thing is being late turning something in or "being in trouble." I am the opposite in many ways. To her, getting pulled over is a very scary, public "I'm in trouble." I'm helping her see that cops in general are just doing their jobs and even traffic guys handing out tickets are just trying to make the roads safer and DO detect and stop alot of more serious crime in the course of regular stops.

She is warming up to it, and is growing up alot. She has taken a CCW class, loves to shoot, likes my guy movies, watches 24 and The Unit with me, and is a really smart, cool person. In short, good for me. Has some issues from childhood with traffic cops that are compounded by her personality. She also worries about me being gone ALL the time for work and maybe of getting the news I won't be coming home.

So... our compromise is that I am finishing my education, and trying to start my career in a FED LEO job where I can advance in the ranks, and hopefully have decent hours and vacation time, and have (at least to her) a "safer" job.

I am not ruling the option of local LEO out entirely, and from what you guys say, it's a great way to start out and get experience, "street smarts", or whatever else you want to call it. I DO want to be good at whatever job I end up doing, and hope even if I went straight into a Fed 1811, with whatever agency that I would contibute and serve well and with honor. What I don't want is to not finsish school, get a local job, and then become tied to that with issues of pension, house, etc. Wanna take advantage of my situation now, so in 10 years if I wanted to go for a Fed job I wouldn't be thinking, man, what if...

Again, thanks for your insight and perspective guys, I appreciate it. :cool:

verdugo60
01-08-2011, 17:01
I was a SDUSM for a week during Operation Falcon last year. For those 5 days, I was hung like a stallion in heat.

Ha! It was that fun huh? Operation Falcon? Was that like, a Viagra taskforce?:supergrin:

lawman800
01-09-2011, 01:37
BTW, federal tactics... suck... for the average field agent. Of course, their SOGs and SWAT teams are good, but from what I have seen... they don't get enough street tactics in their 12 week academy and they sure as hell don't get it from their time on the job. Just my $0.02 as a local.:supergrin:

merlynusn
01-09-2011, 08:16
If you are looking for a "safe" fed LEO job, then the USMS is not the agency to go out for. They aren't serving warrants for petty crimes. They are going after felony warrants for all the federal agencies. Look at the ODMP website for the USMS.

Not saying they don't have good tactics and aren't as safe as possible, as is every LEO. But you need to sit down your wife and figure out what her real problems with the LE profession are and go from there. If she's sitting there all night worrying about you because you're on surveillance going after a murderer, then you guys will have a lot of stress related problems.

verdugo60
01-09-2011, 17:20
Hey Guys,

I just wanted to post on here about the talk I had with the wife today. I had been thinking about the advice you all had given me, and I figured it was time to really bring out the issue of her irrational fear of local LEO.

I told her she should not pass judgement on things that she was ignorant about, and that I would still be a "cop" even if I was a Fed and wore a suit or a field jacket with alphabet letters. I told her it could still be dangerous, and that it wasn't fair of her to try to limit me to only Federal LEO because of her misconseptions. She didn't take it well at first, but I was patient and firm and explained local LEO does a very important service, and it wasn't fair for her to disrespect them just because she has issues with it and a jaded perception.

She actually ended up showing how classy she really is, by drying her tears and admitting she probably wasn't being fair about local LEO. She won't be urging me to quit college to join the PD tomorrow, but she has shown real maturity and humility and opened her mind to it. At the worst, if I still do a FED job, she will give local guys more respect, and know more about what I will be doing.

So.... thanks guys, you gave me the little extra push to get that out in the open more. You guys do respectable work, no matter what agency you're in, and I appreciate that, and your advice you have given me.

verdugo60
01-09-2011, 17:25
Yeah, look around, you will be amazed how many federal LE agencies there are... I was amazed at the different uniformed and plainclothes LE they had. Library of Congress Police, Congress Police, Capitol Police, US Park Rangers, IG's for every department, Postal Police, Postal Inspectors, Veteran's Affairs Police, Department of Defense Police, Department of Energy Police, Department of Justice IG, Secret Service Uniformed Division, FPS Police, 1811 investigators everywhere (IRS, USCIS, ICE, ATF, DEA, USSS, FBI), Diplomatic Security, Air Marshals, Deportation Officers, Bureau of Prisons, CIA Police, Pentagon Police, and I haven't even scratched the surface....

You sure you want to go federal? What is the allure of going federal for you? There is this thing that a lot of outsiders think of when they see federal and think there is some magical jurisdictional power or prestige... but really... feds are just different, not better or worse.



There are things that the state or local LE have that are way better... such as starting pay or pensions depending on locale, stability of work location, different mission and promotion abilities if you work for a metro agency that has many divisions or bureaus instead of a federal agency that might be more limited in what they do, etc.

BTW, nothing beats street patrol. You can always go plainclothes or detectives later on, but a good police man starts in patrol. That is your foundation for everything. I have never met a good cop working in any capacity that didn't start out as a good patrolman.

Lawman, what about Fed tactics do you (and everyone else that have posted) think sucks? I'm honestly trying to learn, not distrusting you. Obviously the better trained you and your brothers are, the better chance you will come home, which is really the most important thing for your family at the end of the day.

From my understanding, DEA are pretty well trained on dynamic entry, because of the way crack houses and such have morphed. USMS, I don't know, but it sounds like physically they go through one of the toughest courses at FLETC. As for OIG guys, I have no idea.

SuperSleuth
01-09-2011, 18:11
Lawman, what about Fed tactics do you (and everyone else that have posted) think sucks? I'm honestly trying to learn, not distrusting you. Obviously the better trained you and your brothers are, the better chance you will come home, which is really the most important thing for your family at the end of the day.

From my understanding, DEA are pretty well trained on dynamic entry, because of the way crack houses and such have morphed. USMS, I don't know, but it sounds like physically they go through one of the toughest courses at FLETC. As for OIG guys, I have no idea.

If I may contribute, again, based on my research, I think lawman800 has a point regarding tactics. It seems to me that with local LE you learn the tactics and then pretty much apply them daily when working patrol. With federal LE, at least with criminal investigator training, the emphasis is on conducting investigations, not clearing rooms or making high-risk arrests.

One point I would like to make is that a lot federal LE agencies send their 1811s through the 12-week Criminal Investigator Training Program (CITP) and then another month or two of agency-specific training; this is what agencies like the Secret Service and ATF do.

FYI, for most OIG, the initial training is CITP, which I believe is 12 weeks, and OIG Academy, which I believe is 4 weeks. OIG Academy is just additional training on fraud, waste, and abuse investigations. This is usually followed by agency-specific training, which I believe is mostly OTJ.

CAcop
01-09-2011, 18:11
You seem pretty flexible, have you thought of any state agencies?

I know in CA besides the obvious like parole or CHP there are agencies like Alcohol Beverage Control, Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement, and various inspectors for state programs. Just about every academy class where I work has at least one state investigator going through. For example on of our guys was showing us his pepper spray day video from his class and one of the women he pointed out was going to work welfare fraud. Last I heard there were even a half a dozen investigators for the Lotto.

Also some of our state folks can have some pretty good benefits like our State Park Rangers. They don't work any later than 0100 and no earlier than 0500 unless they get called out at night and they only get called out at night if they live in state housing in the parks. They basically get to live in vacation spots for a couple hundred dollars a month.

Is there anything in your state or nearby states you might be interested in?

SuperSleuth
01-09-2011, 18:39
State agencies are another excellent choice, and a route I tried as well. Unfortunately, that was also unsuccessful. I didn't rank very high on the application for the one state investigative agency I qualified for and was hiring at the time. I think I ranked something like 435th on the list of applicants, but there are only about 250 sworn investigators in the whole agency. :brickwall:

verdugo60
01-09-2011, 19:05
You seem pretty flexible, have you thought of any state agencies?

I know in CA besides the obvious like parole or CHP there are agencies like Alcohol Beverage Control, Bureau of Narcotic Enforcement, and various inspectors for state programs. Just about every academy class where I work has at least one state investigator going through. For example on of our guys was showing us his pepper spray day video from his class and one of the women he pointed out was going to work welfare fraud. Last I heard there were even a half a dozen investigators for the Lotto.

Also some of our state folks can have some pretty good benefits like our State Park Rangers. They don't work any later than 0100 and no earlier than 0500 unless they get called out at night and they only get called out at night if they live in state housing in the parks. They basically get to live in vacation spots for a couple hundred dollars a month.

Is there anything in your state or nearby states you might be interested in?

That might be a good thing to look at, I live in Idaho, and have looked a little at the ISP. I lived in California several summers, and loved some parts of it, but don't know if I could put up with a place like LA for a whole career. What do State Park Rangers do? Are they similar to a Forest Service Ranger, or just enforce special laws and statutes in state parks?

verdugo60
01-09-2011, 19:09
State agencies are another excellent choice, and a route I tried as well. Unfortunately, that was also unsuccessful. I didn't rank very high on the application for the one state investigative agency I qualified for and was hiring at the time. I think I ranked something like 435th on the list of applicants, but there are only about 250 sworn investigators in the whole agency. :brickwall:

Super, again I appreciate you sharing your experiences in the whole process, even though it didn't work out for. Do you mind sharing what the biggest limiting factors were for you in the state agencies, or just the LEO jobs in general? I know you said earlier that with the Fed ones, your age and family situation were a factor.

scottydl
01-09-2011, 20:06
^^ Good talk with the wife above. Thumbs up. Let it her take it all in and keep the dialogue going with her as this process continues for you.

What do State Park Rangers do? Are they similar to a Forest Service Ranger, or just enforce special laws and statutes in state parks?

It's different but similar state to state. They often are state law enforcement officers, but enforce laws and regulations on state owned grounds (parks, hunting, etc.) that other cops never touch. Fish/game/wildlife stuff, as well as patrolling state parks and events. It can be dangerous since you are often dealing alone with hunters in remote areas that have deadly weapons (longbows, rifles, shotguns for hunting), but nationwide I think the incidents of violence against park officers is relatively low.

The #1 cause for on-duty LEO deaths are car crashes. Many of those are avoidable with use of seatbelts and/or more reasonable driving. That's a stat you might want to point out to the wife at some point if/when the "danger" conversation comes up again.

SuperSleuth
01-09-2011, 22:00
Super, again I appreciate you sharing your experiences in the whole process, even though it didn't work out for. Do you mind sharing what the biggest limiting factors were for you in the state agencies, or just the LEO jobs in general? I know you said earlier that with the Fed ones, your age and family situation were a factor.

With the state agency I applied to, I don't know specifically why I didn't rank higher. I applied and my application was assessed, given a point score based on that assessment, then I was put on a list with other applicants, ranked according to score. From my understanding only the top 30 or so applicants for each vacancy are given an initial interview. I also had an acquaintance who had worked with investigators from this agency, and he was told that unless an applicant had already completed an in-state basic police academy his chances of being hired were very slim. The other state agencies required degrees in specific subjects, such as criminal justice or accounting, I didn't have or experience, such as 1 year conducting criminal investigations, I didn't have.

With the feds I applied probably 40 different times to different vacancy announcements from several agencies, including some smaller ones, over a 4-year period. With the exception of the Postal Inspection Service, I never got past the initial application. The response I got every time was pretty much the same: "Thank you for applying with XYZ agency. While you were deemed qualified (or highly qualified), you were not among the best qualified."

It was during the Postal Inspection Service's hiring freeze that I basically re-assessed what it is I want to do, why I want to do it, and try and figure out what my options were. As I said before, my age was a limiting factor, but by far wasn't the primary factor in my decision to change paths. It was a self-assessment that led me to my current path.

Having said that, I do think you're at an age where you have more options. I didn't begin my LE job hunt until I was already in my 30s. I would say take advantage of whatever opportunity you can get, whether you decide to go local, state, or federal, or even all three (very possible over the course of a career).

Another thing I'd say is don't put all your eggs in one basket, but don't put so many in there that you can't manage it.

Let me see...be wary of seeking anything you'd consider a "stepping stone" position, i.e., a job you seek only because it'll help you later on. You never know if things will work out the way you want (believe me...I know!), so that "dream job" opportunity may never come up and you could end up stuck in your "stepping stone" job. Don't apply for anything unless you intend to make at least a long-term commitment (obviously, internships and co-ops are excluded). If opportunities come up along the way, you can re-evaluate things then.

Don't rely on meeting minimum qualifications. A lot of people meet minimum qualifications. Not a lot of people get LE jobs.

A good piece of advice I got was to learn how to word your resume/application so that it addresses the duties listed in the vacancy announcement. Try and think of experiences you had that would be consistent with the job duties. Make the list of duties and/or expected tasks into questions, then use your education/experience to answer them. I got about a 10-point boost in my federal application scores just from applying this tip, even though it wasn't enough, overall.

Before you have an interview with an agency, Google "behavioral interviews" and "STAR interview techniques." You should find some good tips that way.

Stay in drugs. Don't do school. Wait...nevermind. Disregard that one. :supergrin:

I think I'm tapped out on "sage" advice for now. :upeyes:

As always, good luck with whatever you pursue.

CAcop
01-09-2011, 22:29
That might be a good thing to look at, I live in Idaho, and have looked a little at the ISP. I lived in California several summers, and loved some parts of it, but don't know if I could put up with a place like LA for a whole career. What do State Park Rangers do? Are they similar to a Forest Service Ranger, or just enforce special laws and statutes in state parks?

CA State Park Rangers are fully sworn peace officers in CA. Their academy has the same curriculum that mine had except they have parks related scenarios in them. Once they get out on the street they get assigned to an area. They are usually posted in more rural areas however there are some near LA because there are some parks that got swallowed up by the greater LA sprawl. Those can be like working as a street cop with all the gang banger looking for places to target shoot or dump bodies. Their beats tend to be huge in that they can cover a couple of parks spread out across a signficant chunk of land. They mostly make sure everybody is obeying the rules of the park and protecting the land. Protecting the land can also be eradicating pot growns since it is very popular to grow on public lands. The guys in my local office will come into town and work dope since there are areas where dopers will go to buy and use drugs. They have the free time since they aren't taking cold calls.

There is also an "interpretive" part of their job where they have to talk about the plants and animal in the parks with visitors. People looking to be cops don't do well as park rangers because of this. It is mostly so when people ask you what kind of tree that is over there or what kind of bird that is you can answer without lying or going, "Uh, I dunno."

Two of our city's park rangers and one of our CSOs went to go work for them. They really like it and have been doing it for a decade. I know more about them from talking to them from actually watching them work since most of their beats are very far from mine. And of course CA is very big and has very varied environments so the work may vary a lot.

ray9898
01-09-2011, 23:46
Lawman, what about Fed tactics do you (and everyone else that have posted) think sucks?
.

Everything. Its not really a knock on them, it is just something they do not do enough to stay proficient. Most street cops deal with rapidly evolving situations daily, most investigative type positions do no. Most local detectives a few years off the streets are the same way.

lawman800
01-10-2011, 03:01
Officer safety and street survival tactics are perishable skills. You can learn them but if you don't do it all the time, you will be sloppy and rusty. Even street cops can get complacent and they do it everyday!

With Feds and even state investigative agencies, the emphasis is on making cases. We get training with an emphasis on surviving our shift. Officer safety, advanced suspect contacts, high risk stops, building searches, low light tactics, active shooters, crimes in progress, arrest and control, these are some of the regular trainings that we receive on a regular basis.

What is more dynamic and fluid than street contacts or rolling hot to a crime in progress? Feds don't get that on a regular basis. They get the luxury of planning most of their contacts when they wrap up the investigation and hey set up their team for the takedown.

Again, like I said, fed training is good, don't get me wrong, but the emphasis is not the same.

verdugo60
01-10-2011, 10:06
Well thanks guys, I have a ton of usefull info and advice as I start my career. I can see what you guys mean about working the street. When you do something enough it becomes second nature, and you probably never lose it completely, but doing it once in training isn't enouph to stay 100%.

scottydl
01-10-2011, 10:51
When you do something enough it becomes second nature, and you probably never lose it completely

Kinda, but ongoing training is what's needed in LE jobs. Arresting a combative person and serving high risk warrants aren't like riding a bike, or at least you don't want to treat them that way. In crisis situations a person will not rise to the occasion and act heroically (contrary to TV & movies), they will fall back on whatever training they've consistently had. Patrol work would give you a good foundation for dealing with people and understanding how the "police machine" works, but it won't be a substitute for effective, ongoing tactical training throughout your career.

lawman800
01-10-2011, 22:46
Kinda, but ongoing training is what's needed in LE jobs. Arresting a combative person and serving high risk warrants aren't like riding a bike, or at least you don't want to treat them that way. In crisis situations a person will not rise to the occasion and act heroically (contrary to TV & movies), they will fall back on whatever training they've consistently had. Patrol work would give you a good foundation for dealing with people and understanding how the "police machine" works, but it won't be a substitute for effective, ongoing tactical training throughout your career.

This.

Your body under stress (think combat, fight or flight) will automatically revert to what it knows. Muscle memory and trained responses are amazing to watch in people as they go through the motions without realizing what they are doing.

Due to a quirk in scheduling, my quarterly quals were scheduled at the end of this quarter while my last one was at the beginning of last quarter which made for a long lapse, instead of every 3 months, this time it went close to 5 months.

On the range, I was doing what I was trained to do. Recognize threat, react, shoot, assess, reholster. It was getting too automatic though... after one string of fire, I fired off my double taps, assessed, and reholstered... and I thought... what if this was in the field and I reholstered too soon? Just because I took out the threat in front of me doesn't mean I should reholster until I close and secured the threat (kick the gun away) and then I can reholster and cuff or whatever else.

It sorta bugged me a bit... that our reaction string might end up hurting us in the field.

We should be trained to shoot, assess, keep firearm at low ready... until it is all clear (or on the range, given the all clear by the range master), then reholster.

verdugo60
08-30-2011, 11:22
Hey Guys,

Quick update on my situation. Guess this old thread can give anyone interested some backstory on my goals, and advice already given. My wife and I recently relocated to the Denver area for her work and my school. I also have applied for a great student job with a Fed agency. Hint:They work counterfeiting, and some other financial investigations, but this is not what they are known for!

I'm still working towards some kind of Fed LE, but have not ruled out State and City positions, especially now that we are in a bigger metro area than before, with more diverse jobs.

I have a few semesters left for my BA and am finishing up my Spanish minor(I am fluent.) The Criminal Justice Internship coordinator at my school brought something up with me about Border Patrol that piqued my interest, so I figured I would bring it to the GT CT thinktank.

His claim was that the CBP was hiring college grads as supervisors, starting around $85,000(not sure if that's before or after LEAP), and that they were guaranteeing them a slot anywhere in DHS after two years service on the Border. With my spanish, this could be a great way to skip a long hiring process waiting on USMS, DEA or SS and go straight to work with the chance to switch to an ICE or Investigations(special agent I think) slot in DHS and closer to home maybe. Now I know it's not always good to take a stepping stone job, but it seems like it is a good way to fast track into LE sometimes.

Soooo, what do ya'll think? Anyone been a Customs or Border Patrol Agent? My impression is that it could be a worthwhile job, there can be significant danger working alone out in desolate areas and that it's kind of a losing battle with current politics and general lack of unity on the issue of our southern border.

Let me know guys! As always, thanks. Also, if any of you are from the Denver area, or know of some good opportunities for LE here, I am always open to new ideas.

merlynusn
08-30-2011, 13:26
His claim was that the CBP was hiring college grads as supervisors, starting around $85,000(not sure if that's before or after LEAP), and that they were guaranteeing them a slot anywhere in DHS after two years service on the Border. With my spanish, this could be a great way to skip a long hiring process waiting on USMS, DEA or SS and go straight to work with the chance to switch to an ICE or Investigations(special agent I think) slot in DHS and closer to home maybe. Now I know it's not always good to take a stepping stone job, but it seems like it is a good way to fast track into LE sometimes.


There are some CBP people here, but I'll let them chime in. I'm not one of them so take all this with a grain of salt.

I'm pretty sure he's full of crap. First off, most CBP don't get LEAP, they get AUO (or AOU, however the acronym is).

Secondly, why would they hire a recent college graduate to a supervisor spot when there are plenty of college graduates who go in as an entry level CBP agent?

verdugo60
08-30-2011, 13:35
There are some CBP people here, but I'll let them chime in. I'm not one of them so take all this with a grain of salt.

I'm pretty sure he's full of crap. First off, most CBP don't get LEAP, they get AUO (or AOU, however the acronym is).

Secondly, why would they hire a recent college graduate to a supervisor spot when there are plenty of college graduates who go in as an entry level CBP agent?

Yeah, that's kind of what I thought. What he said was that they were so desperate for educated people, that would come to the border, that's what they were doing.

If that was the case, it seems like it would be a bad idea to put brand new hires with minimal experience in charge just because they have more education. Not that it has stopped them in the past!

jwhite75
08-30-2011, 13:35
There are some CBP people here, but I'll let them chime in. I'm not one of them so take all this with a grain of salt.

I'm pretty sure he's full of crap. First off, most CBP don't get LEAP, they get AUO (or AOU, however the acronym is).

Secondly, why would they hire a recent college graduate to a supervisor spot when there are plenty of college graduates who go in as an entry level CBP agent?


What he said...you having a BA ina a Fed LE agency is like you having a zipper on your jeans. Some guys wear button flies, but the bulk have zippers....Get my drift?

:whistling:

I have worked with multiple Fed agencies over my 12 year career. The happiest agents I meet are USMS and BATFE. Period. Border Patrol actively recruits all over the country because they are not nearly as attractive as the other fed jobs and its hard to get good people to come to them instead. If you are attracted to it you would be a great candidate I am sure because of you fluency in Spanish and if you are smart and have a good head on your shoulders street wise you will move up quick anyways.

verdugo60
08-30-2011, 13:40
What he said...you having a BA ina a Fed LE agency is like you having a zipper on your jeans. Some guys wear button flies, but the bulk have zippers....Get my drift?

:whistling:

Ha. Yeah. Since it is required to have a BA in MOST Fed agencies, it seemed like BS. I by no means think that a BA automatically makes me more qualified than experienced LEO's already in an agency. Just one more hoop to jump through for me get hired and also so I don't look dumb with button-ups, ya know?

danielspdx
08-30-2011, 14:02
I don't have a lot of respect for the level of training or tactics of the US Marshals I've worked around. It's not personal, and they all seem like upstanding good people, but all the tactics I've witnessed firsthand were abysmal. I'm surprised a lot more US Marshals aren't KIA each year. Maybe it's different elsewhere, but around here, they do their own thing and don't use local assistance, to their own detriment. YMMV

scottydl
08-30-2011, 15:36
I also have applied for a great student job with a Fed agency. Hint:They work counterfeiting, and some other financial investigations, but this is not what they are known for!

i.e. the U.S. Secret Service, and they probably do more financial and child porn cases than all dignitary protection combined. See what you think of that student job (if you get it) and the insight into that agency... I've heard good things there too, although they mostly are looking for experienced Accountants to become agents, and not the opposite of experienced cops becoming financial investigators.

My advice is DON'T base your situation now on any promises you are given about what COULD happen later. The country's financial and security situation could change substantially by the time you are ready to work, so keep your options open until then.

verdugo60
08-31-2011, 11:08
I have worked with multiple Fed agencies over my 12 year career. The happiest agents I meet are USMS and BATFE. Period. .

Why do you think that is? Will that hold true with ATF guys after the bullcrap that has gone on in their agency with this administration i.e.:operation Gunwalker,etc?

I would love to hear from ATF guys too, if there are any on here. I have a chance to intern with them next year, but it's not paid. Obviously paid is better, but it could be very valuable experience.

TheGreatGonzo
08-31-2011, 11:23
His claim was that the CBP was hiring college grads as supervisors, starting around $85,000(not sure if that's before or after LEAP), and that they were guaranteeing them a slot anywhere in DHS after two years service on the Border. .

This would be the proverbial "load o' crap"...big time. CBP cannot promise any jobs anywhere outside of their own agency. Each DHS component agency has their own hiring process and there are no "internal transfers". If a Border Patrol Agent wants to be a HSI Special Agent, they have to wait for an announcement and apply. If a HSI Special Agent wants to be a Secret Service Special Agent, they have to wait for a vacancy announcement and apply. If a Secret Service Special Agent wants to be a Coast Guard Investigative Service Special Agent...well, you get the idea. Either your source is yanking your chain or he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Proceed with caution!


...although they mostly are looking for experienced Accountants to become agents, and not the opposite of experienced cops becoming financial investigators.

Actually, of all the USSS Agents I know and work with (which is quite a few :supergrin: ), none are former accountants, including the newest hires. The last four new hires, in fact, all came from other law enforcement agencies (two local PD officers, on state investigator, and one agent from another federal agency). The Service actually hires a large number of experienced law enforcement officers.


i.e. the U.S. Secret Service, and they probably do more financial and child porn cases than all dignitary protection combined.

Unless you are on a detail or in a couple of specific field offices, this is definitely true. However, one thing to keep in mind is that other investigations get put on hold for protection details. Just ask any Assistant US Attorney about that...you will probably get an earful. :whistling:


My advice is DON'T base your situation now on any promises you are given about what COULD happen later. The country's financial and security situation could change substantially by the time you are ready to work, so keep your options open until then.

I agree with you 100% and then some. The same applies for the FBI. Don't get a degree or take a "stepping stone" job based on what you think they might be looking for. Get a degree in something that interests you. Except for certain specific specialties, the grades you get are more important than what you get them in. As for the specialties...a little historical research will show you that what the FBI and USSS "look for" in a candidate changes dramatically every few years. I think Scottydl's advice is spot on.

Most Deputy Marshals I know are pretty happy, but the USMS is agency where what you do varies immensely based on where you are. It can be a completely different job from one District to the next.

Last time I checked, there were over 110 federal agencies with some number of law enforcement officers/agents. I highly recommend a book called "Guide to Careers in Federal Law Enforcement” by Thomas Ackerman, a Special Agent with the US Dept of Agriculture Office of Inspector General. He provides an amazing amount of information as well as insight into the hiring process for the various agencies.

Respectfully,
Gonzo

scottydl
08-31-2011, 11:30
Actually, of all the USSS Agents I know and work with (which is quite a few :supergrin: ), none are former accountants, including the newest hires. The last four new hires, in fact, all came from other law enforcement agencies (two local PD officers, on state investigator, and one agent from another federal agency). The Service actually hires a large number of experienced law enforcement officers.

Doh! You are completely correct. See my post above? Disregard everything I said about USSS hiring qualifications... I was thinking of IRS Criminal Investigators, which I looked into in some detail about a year ago. They work a lot of the same kinds of cases as USSS, minus the dignitary stuff.

TheGreatGonzo
08-31-2011, 11:36
Doh! You are completely correct. See my post above? Disregard everything I said about USSS hiring qualifications... I was thinking of IRS Criminal Investigators, which I looked into in some detail about a year ago.

Dude, you speweth forth the truth! IRS CID cases tend to be very long and very complex. You are required to have a certain amount of accounting background or education to get hired and with good reason. Without it, I suspect you would never pass their follow-on training at FLETC. Those poor suckers are stuck at FLETC for something like a year when it is all said and done. I can't even imagine. What a nightmare that would be! :brickwall:

dlrow
08-31-2011, 12:12
[QUOTE=TheGreatGonzo;17853130]Dude, you speweth forth the truth! IRS CID cases tend to be very long and very complex. You are required to have a certain amount of accounting background or education to get hired and with good reason. Without it, I suspect you would never pass their follow-on training at FLETC. Those poor suckers are stuck at FLETC for something like a year when it is all said and done. I can't even imagine. What a nightmare that would be! :brickwall:[/1701]

You speak the truth about the IRS CID follow on. Its brutal. It's three months. Total time at fletc is six Months. It just feels like a year :)

I can field questions if needed.

TheGreatGonzo
08-31-2011, 12:17
You speak the truth about the IRS CID follow on. Its brutal. It's three months. Total time at fletc is six Months. It just feels like a year :)

I can field questions if needed.

You are a better man than I if you survived that kind of "hard time" stretch in the Joint! LOL! Last I heard, IRS CID follow-on had the highest recycle rate (or flat "wash out" rate) of any agency follow-on, with Fish & Widlife a close second place. Brutal! But you do get to lay claim on that whole Al Capone bust. :supergrin:

C150J
08-31-2011, 15:53
I will further echo the fact that CBP's hiring process is just like any other Federal agency's. I have been in the pool for CBP A&M (Air Interdiction Agent) for 3.5 years: 2 drug screens and 2 polys to keep my BI current.

J.

verdugo60
08-31-2011, 17:28
i.e. the U.S. Secret Service, and they probably do more financial and child porn cases than all dignitary protection combined. See what you think of that student job (if you get it) and the insight into that agency... I've heard good things there too, although they mostly are looking for experienced Accountants to become agents, and not the opposite of experienced cops becoming financial investigators.

My advice is DON'T base your situation now on any promises you are given about what COULD happen later. The country's financial and security situation could change substantially by the time you are ready to work, so keep your options open until then.

Hey Scotty,

Thanks for your advice but I will not confirm or deny any agency. Not good form IMHO, at least for now.

I do know a couple guys in the USSS, and they have no accounting background. As for a job with the IRS, I have NO interest in that! Ha. Not an accountant personality, although I respect the guys who can stick it out. A year at FLETC would not be my idea of fun.

verdugo60
08-31-2011, 17:30
This would be the proverbial "load o' crap"...big time. CBP cannot promise any jobs anywhere outside of their own agency. Each DHS component agency has their own hiring process and there are no "internal transfers". If a Border Patrol Agent wants to be a HSI Special Agent, they have to wait for an announcement and apply. If a HSI Special Agent wants to be a Secret Service Special Agent, they have to wait for a vacancy announcement and apply. If a Secret Service Special Agent wants to be a Coast Guard Investigative Service Special Agent...well, you get the idea. Either your source is yanking your chain or he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Proceed with caution!




Actually, of all the USSS Agents I know and work with (which is quite a few :supergrin: ), none are former accountants, including the newest hires. The last four new hires, in fact, all came from other law enforcement agencies (two local PD officers, on state investigator, and one agent from another federal agency). The Service actually hires a large number of experienced law enforcement officers.




Unless you are on a detail or in a couple of specific field offices, this is definitely true. However, one thing to keep in mind is that other investigations get put on hold for protection details. Just ask any Assistant US Attorney about that...you will probably get an earful. :whistling:




I agree with you 100% and then some. The same applies for the FBI. Don't get a degree or take a "stepping stone" job based on what you think they might be looking for. Get a degree in something that interests you. Except for certain specific specialties, the grades you get are more important than what you get them in. As for the specialties...a little historical research will show you that what the FBI and USSS "look for" in a candidate changes dramatically every few years. I think Scottydl's advice is spot on.

Most Deputy Marshals I know are pretty happy, but the USMS is agency where what you do varies immensely based on where you are. It can be a completely different job from one District to the next.

Last time I checked, there were over 110 federal agencies with some number of law enforcement officers/agents. I highly recommend a book called "Guide to Careers in Federal Law Enforcement” by Thomas Ackerman, a Special Agent with the US Dept of Agriculture Office of Inspector General. He provides an amazing amount of information as well as insight into the hiring process for the various agencies.

Respectfully,
Gonzo

Thanks Gonzo, PM inbound!

verdugo60
08-31-2011, 17:37
[QUOTE=TheGreatGonzo;17853130]Dude, you speweth forth the truth! IRS CID cases tend to be very long and very complex. You are required to have a certain amount of accounting background or education to get hired and with good reason. Without it, I suspect you would never pass their follow-on training at FLETC. Those poor suckers are stuck at FLETC for something like a year when it is all said and done. I can't even imagine. What a nightmare that would be! :brickwall:[/1701]

You speak the truth about the IRS CID follow on. Its brutal. It's three months. Total time at fletc is six Months. It just feels like a year :)

I can field questions if needed.

Good on you bro for sticking that out. Can I assume you are with the IRS CID currently? How do you like it? Do you get any fun doorkicking or similar stuff, or mostly office stuff?

Hack
08-31-2011, 17:45
I have an idea where you are currently interning. Best of luck to you on that. I will say that any federal agency you get on with will at least get your feet in the door. I have known people who have gone to other agencies after working where I am at, if you get my meaning.

And, you have to apply for positions just like any other from off the streets, degrees are a dime a dozen, but the do help for management promotions, etcetera in my agency. I'm one of many who have gotten in by experience, and had plenty of it when I hired on, but there are some positions which I do not qualify for because of a lack of a degree. However, I am happy with what I have.

verdugo60
08-31-2011, 18:15
I have an idea where you are currently interning. Best of luck to you on that. I will say that any federal agency you get on with will at least get your feet in the door. I have known people who have gone to other agencies after working where I am at, if you get my meaning.

And, you have to apply for positions just like any other from off the streets, degrees are a dime a dozen, but the do help for management promotions, etcetera in my agency. I'm one of many who have gotten in by experience, and had plenty of it when I hired on, but there are some positions which I do not qualify for because of a lack of a degree. However, I am happy with what I have.

Thanks Hack! As always you are first class. I have not officially been hired, playing the waiting game:upeyes:, but I think I have a pretty good chance. Should hear for sure within a month. If I don't get the paid position I am going for, I will definately be doing some volunteer work with other agencies, and I might anyways just to get as much experience as possible with different groups. Why not if I'm getting college credit? It's gotta be better than sitting in a classroom listenting to some "brilliant" professor.:supergrin:

Take care man.

scottydl
08-31-2011, 18:21
Thanks for your advice but I will not confirm or deny any agency. Not good form IMHO, at least for now.

Not sure I came across clearly... I don't mean you should turn down any offers from an agency. (Is that what you meant? :dunno:) I just mean don't go a certain route in school for instance (which is on your own) based on some possibility or current recommendation that an agency may look upon that favorably in 3-4 years. The tide could have changed dramatically by then. Get a degree you really want in school, and let the rest fall in place when it comes time to get a job. ;)

verdugo60
08-31-2011, 18:56
Not sure I came across clearly... I don't mean you should turn down any offers from an agency. (Is that what you meant? :dunno:) I just mean don't go a certain route in school for instance (which is on your own) based on some possibility or current recommendation that an agency may look upon that favorably in 3-4 years. The tide could have changed dramatically by then. Get a degree you really want in school, and let the rest fall in place when it comes time to get a job. ;)

Sorry, I can see how that was confusing. I just meant before being hired especially, I'm not too keen on saying exactly what agency I'll be working for on a public site.

As for your degree advise, roger that. Went down that road, thinking accounting would be great for getting on with the FBI. One semester later I realized I hate accounting, and the FBI might not be the best fit either! :shocked:

Now I'm 2 semesters away, in a degree that interests me. I COULD work in the field I'm studying, but am really gonna make a go of LE, especially fed. I feel like with my family situation, and goals, it would be feasible if I can just stand a few more classes of liberal professors! I seriously think you are right on with the assesment of our governments needs changing, and who knows what will happen in the next few years....

It is 2012 next year, after all. :whistling:

scottydl
09-01-2011, 17:41
Ah! 10-4

It is 2012 next year, after all. :whistling:

Yeah good point. So none of this really matters anyway. :upeyes::cool: