Springfield Professional / just not diggin it [Archive]

R0CKETMAN

01-10-2011, 10:27

I got a new Pro and ran a few mags through it in order to see more how it felt rather than accuracy. I just can't get used to the lack of a relief cut in the front strap.

I communicated with the custom shop and all they could do was a "Colt" relief which was not to my liking. I have a Baer Custom Carry which fits my hand like a custom glove and would like the same feel from the Pro.

So,
1. Sell the pro and get either a SRP or perhaps a Wilson Ultralight Carry.
2. Send it off to a smith to have the relief cut and re black T.

I like the pistol, but I'm not in love with it due to the ergos.

Thoughts and ideas are welcome and appreciated. Thanks RM

asiparks

01-10-2011, 10:38

Do the undercut done the way you want , but I'd refinish in melonite/isonite/antrite, as a) it's cheaper than Black T, b) it wears much, much better. The only caveat being that if there's anything else you'd want to change, do it before the refinish as once it's done, you're pretty much stuck with it....

jedi573

01-10-2011, 10:40

I'm one of those guys who thinks how a gun feels in the hand is one of the most important things in a tool like that.

Professionals have a good resale value. That value would likely go down quite a bit if you had its front strap changed like that. The cost and wait time to have it cut and refinished would be considerable.

If you already have a gun that fits your hand well, I'd keep using that.

My two cents! :)

Andy

Rinspeed

01-10-2011, 10:46

Sell it and get something you want.

MD357

01-10-2011, 11:33

Sell it and get a Baer, Wilson or something from a SACS. Never understood why SA doesn't change this.

Hokie1911

01-10-2011, 12:00

With the addicts that frequent this place....your Pro won't last long if you sell it.

nolt

01-10-2011, 12:12

the baer cut has ruined me to my other guns. i really really prefer it.

okie

01-10-2011, 12:19

I just can't get used to the lack of a relief cut in the front strap.

I guess I didn't know there were different cuts, got pics to show the difference:headscratch::dunno::supergrin:

drc767

01-10-2011, 12:34

Sell it and get a Baer, Wilson or something from a SACS. Never understood why SA doesn't change this.

SA cannot change this if they wanted to on the Pro. It is an FBI spec/contract pistol. They only way it could be changed would be if the FBI changed the spec for their build. I, too, like the high grip cut, but don't find it to be a deal breaker for the Pro. If I am having a pistol built, I will have it done with the high grip cut. I say send the Pro off, have the cut done and have it refinished. They are a super pistol......

USAF 94535

01-10-2011, 12:43

i was never a fan of springfield except for the trp. the wilson is a great choice. les and ed are as well. and nothing compares to the extravagance and number 1 1911 of all time the one and only rock island.

juuuuuuuust kidding.

drc767

01-10-2011, 12:46

Hokie1911

01-10-2011, 12:49

If you like the TRP, you would LOVE the Professional.....:)

I don't like the TRP so I guess I won't like the Pro. :tongueout:

mes228

01-10-2011, 12:52

I've been carrying and shooting my Spring. Pro pretty much exclusively since November, trying to like it better than my Baer. I have the Monolith Heavy Hard Chrome and love the thing. The Mono has a better trigger and the Baer cut does change the ergos. I don't know how to verbalize why I like the Mono. The whole package just "feels different" and is "easier" to be really accurate with. However, in harsh conditions or combat the Pro may well be the better ticket. I absolutely love the trigger on the Mono. I've owned 1911's that cost MUCH MUCH more than the LB Mono Hvy and were full customs. Nothing has delivered more than the Mono though. It's thus far still my favorite 1911. I will be keep carrying the Pro. Don't get me wrong I really like the Pro - I just like the Mono better at the range.

glock2740

01-10-2011, 12:58

With the addicts that frequent this place....your Pro won't last long if you sell it.
I agree.

GJ1981

01-10-2011, 13:04

I communicated with the custom shop and all they could do was a "Colt" relief which was not to my liking.

I'm not sure why they'd tell you that since they have UC similar to a Baer. After my dealings with them though, I think they just prefer the "Colt" style for some reason.

That said, if you don't like it, sell it. That's what I'd do, or just deal with honestly, but that's me.

I will agree with an earlier post, I wouldn't waste the money on getting Black-T if you decide on have a smith do the work...there are much better choices, IMO.

MD357

01-10-2011, 13:17

SA cannot change this if they wanted to on the Pro. It is an FBI spec/contract pistol. They only way it could be changed would be if the FBI changed the spec for their build. I, too, like the high grip cut, but don't find it to be a deal breaker for the Pro. If I am having a pistol built, I will have it done with the high grip cut. I say send the Pro off, have the cut done and have it refinished. They are a super pistol......

They've made other changes over the years. Like the use of a MIM slidestop and now the use of their barrels. It's not like the FBI would complain, so I'd imagine the "approval" would come quite easily.

drc767

01-10-2011, 13:27

They've made other changes over the years. Like the use of a MIM slidestop and now the use of their barrels. It's not like the FBI would complain, so I'd imagine the "approval" would come quite easily.

Who knows with the FBI. Those other changes were parts that "met or exceeded" the original spec, and it is my understanding those specific changes do not need approval. The high grip cut would be a little more complicated. It does beg the question why the FBI did not go with the high grip cut on the Pro, though. Nothing in a gov't contract "anything" comes easy.....:)

MD357

01-10-2011, 13:43

Who knows with the FBI. Those other changes were parts that "met or exceeded" the original spec, and it is my understanding those specific changes do not need approval.

Don't really believe that MIM parts exceed forged but the govt never makes mistakes. :whistling:

The high grip cut would be a little more complicated.

Dunno about that. A SS spec change is much more vital than the ergos in terms of reliability.

Sorry but to me, these things are just getting WAY overhyped and overpriced for the features they have compared to even their own models. A Civilian is better off ordering something from the SACS in terms of value IMO. Just sayin when these things were sub $2000 they had less MIM and better barrels (IMO).

icedevil

01-10-2011, 13:47

The undercut and the way it mates with the checkering has always been a hang up for me on the Pro. I like everything else about that gun, but the aesthetic of the front strap just doesn't look right to me (yes, it's a tool, but anyone who is honest will admit that for that kind of money aesthetics come into play). This is the main reason I went with a Baer SRP. I really like the look of Baer's undercut and where the checkering starts. Never shot a Pro so I can't comment on feel. I'm sure if I had one, I would get used to the feel and there are a lot of happy owners of that gun.

If you have any thoughts of reselling the gun, I wouldn't change the front strap, unless you can have SA Custom Shop do it the way you want. Even then it would probably eliminate a bunch of potential buyers who would want the exact FBI spec.

I got a new Pro and ran a few mags through it in order to see more how it felt rather than accuracy. I just can't get used to the lack of a relief cut in the front strap.

I communicated with the custom shop and all they could do was a "Colt" relief which was not to my liking. I have a Baer Custom Carry which fits my hand like a custom glove and would like the same feel from the Pro.

So,
1. Sell the pro and get either a SRP or perhaps a Wilson Ultralight Carry.
2. Send it off to a smith to have the relief cut and re black T.

I like the pistol, but I'm not in love with it due to the ergos.

Thoughts and ideas are welcome and appreciated. Thanks RM

TSAX

01-10-2011, 13:48

If you like the TRP, you would LOVE the Professional.....:)

I don't like the TRP so I guess I won't like the Pro. :tongueout:

:rofl::rofl:

drc767

01-10-2011, 13:59

Don't really believe that MIM parts exceed forged but the govt never makes mistakes. :whistling:

Dunno about that. A SS spec change is much more vital than the ergos in terms of reliability.

Sorry but to me, these things are just getting WAY overhyped and overpriced for the features they have compared to even their own models. A Civilian is better off ordering something from the SACS in terms of value IMO. Just sayin when these things were sub $2000 they had less MIM and better barrels (IMO).

I believe that when they state "meets or exceeds", it has more to do with a minimum failure rate as opposed to whether the part is cast, forged, bar-stock, ect (unless spec'd as such). I personally do not have any issue with the barrel, but would like to see the Professional without MIM parts. If a civilian wants a similar build to the Professional, but does not want certain features that the Pro comes with, ie. single sided safety, no magwell, ect, they would have no other choice but to order something other than the Pro, but I can pretty much promise it is going to cost over $2k for the build, or pretty damn close. You are right, though.....the Pro's are very quietly becoming more and more expensive with each passing year....I still think they are still a pretty decent bargain for the money. If they are holding up for the FBI/HRT/CRG/DEA guys, then I would never throw anything at it that it could not handle. They are in the same price range as a Wilson CQB, and as much as I like Wilson, the CQB is not in the same league as the Springfield Pro.....not even close, IMHO.

Rinspeed

01-10-2011, 14:09

I guess I didn't know there were different cuts, got pics to show the difference:headscratch::dunno::supergrin:

Mark, here is a pic of a high cut front strap. Shouldn't be too tough to figure out who's work it is. :supergrin:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/11-10.jpg

MD357

01-10-2011, 14:10

They are in the same price range as a Wilson CQB, and as much as I like Wilson, the CQB is not in the same league as the Springfield Pro.....not even close, IMHO

Gonna have to disagree there. The CQB uses better small parts and just as good of a frame and slide with better CNC'ed ergos...like an undercut :supergrin:, in fact you can get an Elite with all billet parts for what a Professional costs. Wilson is putting out a better all around product for that kind of money.

Hokie1911

01-10-2011, 14:11

Mark, here is a pic of a high cut front strap. Shouldn't be too tough to figure out who's work it is. :supergrin:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/11-10.jpg

Titleist? :rofl:

MD357

01-10-2011, 14:11

Mark, here is a pic of a high cut front strap. Shouldn't be too tough to figure out who's work it is. :supergrin:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y29/Rinspeed/11-10.jpg

STI also cuts ( or has them cut )their frames REALLY high aswell.

drc767

01-10-2011, 14:13

Gonna have to disagree there. The CQB uses better small parts and just as good of a frame and slide with better CNC'ed ergos...like an undercut :supergrin:, in fact you can get an Elite with all billet parts for what a Professional costs. Wilson is putting out a better all around product for that kind of money.

With Wilson's price increase on the CQB Elite, they are retailing for over $3k now with an additional $250 upcharge for the BP Pkg...quite a bit higher than the Pro ($600+).

R0CKETMAN

01-10-2011, 14:15

I guess I didn't know there were different cuts, got pics to show the difference:headscratch::dunno::supergrin:

Ok Okie, here's the porn you wanted.......

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/005.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/002edit.jpg

Ruggles

01-10-2011, 14:15

Can't really tell much from the pictures, I will shoot you a PM and you can send it to me so I can feel it for myself. After I get it it should not take me more than 3-4 years to get a good handle on it's feel. :wavey:

okie

01-10-2011, 14:35

Ok Okie, here's the porn you wanted.......

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/005.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/002edit.jpg

Next time I go lookin at guns, I'll have to pay attention to that and see what kind of difference it makes for me:supergrin:

MD357

01-10-2011, 14:37

With Wilson's price increase on the CQB Elite, they are retailing for over $3k now with an additional $250 upcharge for the BP Pkg...quite a bit higher than the Pro ($600+).

Yep, I just don't buy from dealers that charge me full retail, so that comparison doesn't work with me. :supergrin: You also don't have to wait a year from Wilson.

Either way, a stock CQB measures up to a Pro quite nicely. We had one locally go 80K+ rounds over the last 3 years. Only thing switched out was the Barrel and springs.

BlayGlock

01-10-2011, 14:42

order something other than the Pro, but I can pretty much promise it is going to cost over $2k for the build, or pretty damn close. You are right, though.....

Yep My Custom Carry 9mm which is pretty basic was a tad over $2k.

drc767

01-10-2011, 14:45

Yep, I just don't buy from dealers that charge me full retail, so that comparison doesn't work with me. :supergrin: You also don't have to wait a year from Wilson.

Either way, a stock CQB measures up to a Pro quite nicely. We had one locally go 80K+ rounds over the last 3 years. Only thing switched out was the Barrel and springs.

It does not matter if you are paying full retail or not.... I could sell you both at my cost (ie. dealer cost) and you would still pay over $500 more the the CQB Elite with BP Pkg. It is just not an apples to apples comparison any way you look at it. Like I said before, I am a Wilson fan, but in my opinion, a box stock CQB is not in the same league as a Springfield Pro. The level of hand fitting is much higher on the Springer than the CQB. Just my opinion, though (owning a couple of each).....

Nickpisp

01-10-2011, 14:46

Maybe it's the angle of the pic but the Baer doesn't look to me like it's cut much higher than a Colt. :dunno:

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/Nickpisp/917971056_photobucket_38354_.jpg

okie

01-10-2011, 14:48

I learned something new to day:supergrin:

MD357

01-10-2011, 14:48

double post

MD357

01-10-2011, 14:53

It does not matter if you are paying full retail or not.... I could sell you both at my cost (ie. dealer cost) and you would still pay over $500 more the the CQB Elite with BP Pkg. It is just not an apples to apples comparison. Like I said before, I am a Wilson fan, but in my opinion, a box stock CQB is not in the same league as a Springfield Pro. The level of hand fitting is much higher on the Springer than the CQB. Just my opinion, though (owning a couple of each).....

What's dealer cost on both? I've lost track of SA's pricing. I can get a Elite for $2700ish, are you saying you can get a Pro for $2200 for cost? Not doubting you, just puts the hype into perspective.

You probably think it's higher because it's "tighter"? Regardless of superficial acknowledgments Wilson puts out better small parts and uses better small parts...... AND has better ergos for smilar money.

GJ1981

01-10-2011, 14:53

a stock CQB measures up to a Pro quite nicely.

Can't argue with that...

SA may have a nicer exterior fit but that doesn't mean much to me. For the fitting that does matter, it is a trivial difference between the two.

I'll leave my recent Pro out of this to be non-biased.

drc767

01-10-2011, 15:03

What's dealer cost on both? I've lost track of SA's pricing. I can get a Elite for $2700ish, are you saying you can get a Pro for $2200 for cost? Not doubting you, just puts the hype into perspective.

You probably think it's higher because it's "tighter"? Regardless of superficial acknowledgments Wilson puts out better small parts and uses better small parts...... AND has better ergos for smilar money.

I am not going to quote dealer cost.....but they are greater than $500 between the two (with the BP Pkg). And I "probably think it's higher" because in my opinion the Pro is a better build, more comfortable, smoother shooting and more accurate for me than the CQB...It is just personal preference...simple as that. You may want to recheck your pricing on the Elite.....they had a $100 price increase in November for the CQB Elite. My guess is your new quoted price with be right around $2,800 unless your dealer likes you a whole lot.....:)

Quack

01-10-2011, 15:06

:popcorn::beer:

glock2740

01-10-2011, 15:27

Nickpisp

01-10-2011, 15:44

That Colt is higher than the LB.

I thought that's what people meant when they said "Colt style" cut. That one came from the factory that way.

Shipwreck-The-Sequel

01-10-2011, 15:47

Ok Okie, here's the porn you wanted.......

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/005.jpg
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g219/rocketmanmtb/002edit.jpg

I have expensive guns I have carried in the past - but my 1st thought when I see this kind of pic - Good god man, go get that water off of there ASAP :wow::wow:

Hahahah :rofl:

Quack

01-10-2011, 15:54

yeah, that Baer is gonna rust... :tongueout:

R0CKETMAN

01-10-2011, 16:09

Maybe it's the angle of the pic but the Baer doesn't look to me like it's cut much higher than a Colt. :dunno:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/Nickpisp/917971056_photobucket_38354_.jpg
Nope it's the pic angle and my fault.

That Colt is higher than the LB.
Not exactly. The Colt trigger guard is slightly radiused, but look at the top of the front strap of each.

Can't argue with that...

SA may have a nicer exterior fit but that doesn't mean much to me. For the fitting that does matter, it is a trivial difference between the two.

I'll leave my recent Pro out of this to be non-biased.

This isn't a SA Pro vs Wilson CQB thread, but.....
I believe the workmanship which goes into a Pro exceeds that which is put into a CQB. I am basing this on two things.
1. Low production by smith that only builds Pro's
2. The designated end user.

I'm a Wilson fan. I don't own one as they screwed me over on a pistol. I will not air details publicly.

GJ1981

01-10-2011, 16:16

This isn't a SA Pro vs Wilson CQB thread, but.....
I believe the workmanship which goes into a Pro exceeds that which is put into a CQB. I am basing this on two things.
1. Low production by smith that only builds Pro's
2. The designated end user.

I used to think the same, but with my Pro looking at its 3rd trip back to SA, or maybe someone else this time :dunno: , the novelty of being the "FBI" pistol has worn off on me.

Not trying to hijack your thread so I'll leave it at that.

R0CKETMAN

01-10-2011, 16:19

:tongueout:I used to think the same, but with my Pro looking at its 3rd trip back to SA, or maybe someone else this time :dunno: , the novelty of being the "FBI" pistol has worn off on me.

Not trying to hijack your thread so I'll leave it at that.

No worries, I'd feel the same way if I were you.

gpo1956

01-10-2011, 16:44

You might as well sell the Pro and get what you want. I would jump all over it if I had the money! I've had three and personally, I have to agree with drc767
I really think the Pro is a step or two abovbe most of the other semi-customs. I've owned 7 or 8 Wilson's, 5 or 6 Baers and 3 or 4 Ed Browns. All were very good, but the next one I buy agin will be another Pro. Just my personal opinion.

MD357

01-10-2011, 23:10

It does not matter if you are paying full retail or not.....

I've routinely seen Pros go for like $2500+ new lately. Whether you like it or not I wouldn't be paying even close to $3000 for a Elite as quoted by a local dealer and PT Partners. What it matters is what people are paying and around here... there's not a $500 difference. YMMV.

And I "probably think it's higher" because in my opinion the Pro is a better build, more comfortable, smoother shooting and more accurate for me than the CQB...It is just personal preference...simple as that.

Gotcha. Funny thing is, Wilson uses better parts and several people including yourself admit they like the ergos of an undercut better. Not trying to change an opinion just relaying some facts.

drc767

01-11-2011, 07:18

I've routinely seen Pros go for like $2500+ new lately. Whether you like it or not I wouldn't be paying even close to $3000 for a Elite as quoted by a local dealer and PT Partners. What it matters is what people are paying and around here... there's not a $500 difference. YMMV.

Gotcha. Funny thing is, Wilson uses better parts and several people including yourself admit they like the ergos of an undercut better. Not trying to change an opinion just relaying some facts.

Ok.....here is the deal. I have realized I was somewhat confused yesterday during this exchange. The CQB Elite comes with Bulletproof parts, so there is no $250 ungrade for that option. I made an assumption based on the fact that the Elite Professional I currently have on order, and an Tactical Elite in 10mm that I bought a few years back did not come standard with the BP parts. To get the BP Pkg on those two "Elites", one must pay for the upgrade. So that being said, it brings the CQB Elite and SA Professional a little closer together in price. Yes, the Pro's can be had (if you can find a new one) for around $2.5k.....I would say you are getting a steal of a deal if you can find a CQB Elite for under $2,700, especially with the $100 increase in Nov. Both are fantastic pistols....

R0CKETMAN

01-11-2011, 07:26

Most Elites are 3k all day.

quantico

01-11-2011, 20:51

I would trust springfield to get me a working pistol a lot more than wilson based on my dealings with them. I have seen good wilsons but frankly don't trust them after having been treated poorly by them. I should chat with the rep for wilson off. The board about my experience.

glock2740

01-11-2011, 21:13

Not exactly. The Colt trigger guard is slightly radiused, but look at the top of the front strap of each.
I own both and can see them pretty close up. :cool: My Colt is cut higher, and my LB has more of a less rounded cut. The Colt has a "higher"cut, and the LB has less radius. Both feel great to me, but the Colt looks better IMO.

auto45

01-12-2011, 05:02

You could send a "picture" of an undercut/high-grip style you like to Springfield's custom shop...maybe they will duplicate it.

I believe the Colt pictured is from the custom shop. They don't look like that "out of the box".

GJ1981

01-12-2011, 06:29

You could send a "picture" of an undercut/high-grip style you like to Springfield's custom shop...maybe they will duplicate it.

I tried that with SA and got two answers, first was "we can do that," but the second response was we have X and Y styles.

I found a nice style, similar to the Colt posted earlier, and they told me their machine couldn't do it :dunno:

FWIW, SA's "Colt" UC

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/TonyG749/Colt_Style_001.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/TonyG749/Colt_Style_004.jpg

JBJ16

01-12-2011, 06:34

High-grip undercut with a DREMEL tool.:embarassed:

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x29/jbj16/AlumahydeII.jpg

bac1023

01-12-2011, 18:31

RetailNinja

01-12-2011, 19:40

That value would likely go down quite a bit if you had its front strap changed like that.

If it was professionally and cleanly done, I'd pay more than MSRP for one on the used market. Non-undercut trigger guards belong on Mil Specs only. :cool:

R0CKETMAN

01-14-2011, 19:01

I tried that with SA and got two answers, first was "we can do that," but the second response was we have X and Y styles.

I found a nice style, similar to the Colt posted earlier, and they told me their machine couldn't do it :dunno:

FWIW, SA's "Colt" UC

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/TonyG749/Colt_Style_001.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n106/TonyG749/Colt_Style_004.jpg

Same pics Deb in the custom shop sent me. Their "Colt" under cut which is not acceptable to me.

I've decided to keep the pistol and have John Harrison perform the modification when time permits.

GJ1981

01-15-2011, 15:45

Surprised they didn't mentioned their other style, which sounds like the best one if you like Baer's.

<a href="http://tinypic.com?ref=2n8t2yu" target="_blank"><img src="http://i51.tinypic.com/2n8t2yu.jpg" border="0" alt="Image and video hosting by TinyPic"></a>

But going with JH is probably the better choice.