Commander size under 2k [Archive] - Glock Talk

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DeepBlue
01-10-2011, 13:07
I want one to carry occasionally and enjoy at the range.
Which would you get if you could spend up to $2,000.00?

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 13:47
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/HokiePS7/55e32bec.jpg

DeepBlue
01-10-2011, 13:51
I'm looking at the Les Baer Monolith Commanche.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_765/products_id/411539236

What do you think? Other contenders?

DeepBlue
01-10-2011, 13:53
http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/HokiePS7/55e32bec.jpg

Looks great... can one be had for under 2k?

polizei1
01-10-2011, 13:55
Now I could be wrong, but I THINK brand new ones from George (www.migunslingers.com) can be had for ~$2,300 or so. If it were me, I would get an Ed Brown. Well worth it IMO, especially if you're going to spend that much anyway, what's another $2-300? I'm sure others will chime in here.

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 13:56
More like $2,100ish without any options.

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 14:00
Looks great... can one be had for under 2k?

Close to $2k. I had a few extras on my build. If you're going to spend $2k, get EXACTLY what you want.

thecableguy
01-10-2011, 14:00
Paul all thing needs is some black grips to complete to package. I second the Brown.

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 14:03
Paul all thing needs is some black grips to complete to package. I second the Brown.

Still trying to figure out what grips I want for it, but they will be black for sure.

airflyer
01-10-2011, 14:04
Ed Brown good choice 2100.00
Guncrafter no name comander 2495.00
These are a little more but I would check prices might be able to get for less

thecableguy
01-10-2011, 14:09
Still trying to figure out what grips I want for it, bit they will be black for sure.

http://vzgrips.com/img/category/1911_Pistol_Grip_4c1ba5cf58396.jpg

beemerphile
01-10-2011, 14:41
Looks great... can one be had for under 2k?

I got my Kobra Carry like new for just under $2K. I also got a Nighthawk Talon II in the same condition for about the same price. For surprising quality, look up a used Rock River (not Rock Island) 1911. They aren't in production any more, but mine shoots as good as any 1911 I have.

youngAR
01-10-2011, 14:44
VBOB. DW is really making some nice 1911's and the Valor is their flagship gun.

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 15:13
VBOB. DW is really making some nice 1911's and the Valor is their flagship gun.

The VBOB is a hell of a nice gun for $1,400. Was playing with one yesterday.

asiparks
01-10-2011, 15:34
The VBOB is a hell of a nice gun for $1,400. Was playing with one yesterday.

^This ^

I was toying with one at a funshow this weekend and it was smooth and silky and crisp in all the appropriate places....I like the feel of the checkering, which I only bring up as I was also looking at a gently used Kobra carry that was $1800, which I was sure I wanted, but, once in my hand, the scales weren't doing anything for me...

Aesthetics aside, I wonder how much extra fitting goes into an off the shelf Brown over an off the shelf VBOB as they're both relatively low volume pieces....

Quack
01-10-2011, 15:54
for $1400 it's a SS Vbob, if he want's a Duty Treatment (black) Vbob, it'll be $1800-$1900.
for that price, i'd bring ramen noodles for lunch for 2 weeks to make up the difference and buy a Kobra Carry.

http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/1004742889_CeZRP-M-1.jpg

knedrgr
01-10-2011, 16:42
...which I only bring up as I was also looking at a gently used Kobra carry that was $1800, which I was sure I wanted, but, once in my hand, the scales weren't doing anything for me....

Enters the Executive Carry. This would be the 1911, if I were to get an Ed Brown. I actually like the scales on the FS and MSH, just not a fan of it on the slide. Maybe it's because they're done vertically.

Aesthetics aside, I wonder how much extra fitting goes into an off the shelf Brown over an off the shelf VBOB as they're both relatively low volume pieces....

Me too...

Quack
01-10-2011, 16:49
you also have to realize, not only on how it's fit, but the parts.
Brown makes most of their parts, while a majority of the DW parts are sourced.

http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/1026324255_D2JjM-X2.jpg

just one example. look at the magwell and how the MSH is fit.
http://photosbydon.smugmug.com/photos/1026324018_zDDK9-XL.jpg

IANative
01-10-2011, 17:37
I like Baers. Concept VII, Concept VIII, Custom Carry Comanche would all fit your requirements.

asiparks
01-10-2011, 18:01
you also have to realize, not only on how it's fit, but the parts.
Brown makes most of their parts, while a majority of the DW parts are sourced.


sourced from Brown, Greider, EGW, Wolff etc....basically all top shelf parts, so that's no bad thing. I believe that the fire control group is all tool steel, the frame and slide are likely forged Remsport, which is fine....
Yours looks like an 09 model Quack, with champion sights and without the higher undercut trigger guard, and higher checkered frontstrap...

Certainly not knocking Brown quality, just curious from a purely objective POV. I expected to feel tingly magic when i handled the Kobra... but didn't:crying:

If I could find an Exec carry for $1800 i would pounce on it no questions asked....

I would get the stainless VBOB over the black VBOB and have it Atranided (melonited)for $150...

Quack
01-10-2011, 18:04
2010 Guardian.

Quack
01-10-2011, 18:07
I would get the stainless VBOB over the black VBOB and have it Atranided (melonited)for $150...

add ~$60 each way for shipping, unless you're local.

R0CKETMAN
01-10-2011, 18:08
Custom Carry Commanche or Ed Brown Exec....., but why not just do a 5"...bob if you must...

Jason D
01-10-2011, 18:14
Why not just buy a real Commander, and save the rest.

Jason D
01-10-2011, 18:22
Why not just buy a real Commander, and save the rest.

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
01-10-2011, 19:32
Why not just buy a real Commander, and save the rest.

Sorry, but the Ed Brown is much nicer than a Colt Commander, IMHO.

asiparks
01-10-2011, 21:10
Why not just buy a real Commander, and save the rest.

got one. it's kinda "meh" though......:whistling:

http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100355/_MG_5442/web.jpg

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 21:34
got one. it's kinda "meh" though......:whistling:

http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100355/_MG_5442/web.jpg

www.harrisoncustom.com

He will fix your "meh" problem. :supergrin:

thecableguy
01-10-2011, 21:41
Sorry, but the Ed Brown is much nicer than a Colt Commander, IMHO.
And this trumps all.
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRLoBj1ZNsn1j_yXGweUioNlVSQhT1LT6kcKd7p_pnm8Xp73ei5

Nuff Said.





:rofl::rofl::rofl:

rsxr22
01-10-2011, 21:58
Honestly, for 2k I would probably go with the STI Ranger II, Vbob, Cbob, or Guardian. 2k doesnt get me into the Wilson's, NH's, or EB's.

Hokie1911
01-10-2011, 22:03
Honestly, for 2k I would probably go with the STI Ranger II, Vbob, Cbob, or Guardian. 2k doesnt get me into the Wilson's, NH's, or EB's.

WTF dude, you can spend $2k but not throw down another one or two of these to get a Brown? :rofl:

http://www.futilitycloset.com/wp-content/uploads/2005/11/2005-11-30-bill-durability.jpg

Timbonez
01-10-2011, 22:04
I'm looking at the Les Baer Monolith Commanche.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_765/products_id/411539236

What do you think? Other contenders?

Les Baer is an excellent choice, and new ones fall under the max price you listed.

Quack
01-10-2011, 22:05
Les Baer "Commander" sized guns has a little issued called "not designed to slingshot"

asiparks
01-10-2011, 23:58
www.harrisoncustom.com

He will fix your "meh" problem. :supergrin:

"meh" is where it stands today.
Prior to some considerable fiddling it was "yeeesh"...

If you don't mind used, and you want a Brown, there are a fair few for $1800ish. I've seen NH GRP II's go for around $2k too.
My barely used Wilson LWT Bobtail came in at just over $2k with a brand new shark trimmed VMII and a slew of mags and grips thrown in....though it's not a true Commander, it's in the ballpark...
http://gallery.me.com/asiparks/100347/DSCN0189/web.jpg

Depends if you are in a hurry to buy or don't mind waiting until a deal comes along...

polizei1
01-11-2011, 09:40
Les Baer "Commander" sized guns has a little issued called "not designed to slingshot"

Yea...huge reason why I would never own one. That is a horrible design flaw IMO. They seriously need to look at that.

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
01-11-2011, 10:01
Honestly, for 2k I would probably go with the STI Ranger II, Vbob, Cbob, or Guardian. 2k doesnt get me into the Wilson's, NH's, or EB's.

You can get a 5" Brown for $2k.

IANative
01-11-2011, 10:25
Les Baer "Commander" sized guns has a little issued called "not designed to slingshot"

A little issue that is easily rectified. A gentle polish of the end and top of the slide stop by a qualified smith is all it takes. My C VII slingshots 100%.

BuckyP
01-11-2011, 10:35
I'm looking at the Les Baer Monolith Commanche.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/21_765/products_id/411539236

What do you think? Other contenders?

Just keep in mind that the full length dust cover will not likely fit most "standard" Commander holsters. It also adds weight to the front, which can be useful for shooting (very popular in competition), but not for carry. Also, a steel full length dust cover isn't allowed for IDPA should you decide to want to try that as well.

I would vote for a lightly used Kobra Carry as many others here have suggested.

fredj338
01-11-2011, 13:45
S&W 1911PD w/ a bobtail, right around $1000. Mine is 100% reliable w/ all ammo & carries like it's not there. Probably the only other thing to add to it would be a front night site.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v703/fredj338/DSC_0003_051.jpg

Quack
01-11-2011, 15:33
A little issue that is easily rectified. A gentle polish of the end and top of the slide stop by a qualified smith is all it takes. My C VII slingshots 100%.

the fact is that Baer's slide rails are too long for the the "Commander" length.
there have been well know gunsmiths that have shown the area that Baer cut corners by not milling the rails correctly.
http://forum.m1911.org/showthread.php?t=76359

Originally Posted by John Harrison
I am not assuming to speak for Baer, but would offer this guess. They are not taking the extra steps needed to give their shorter guns full Commander spec rearward travel because it would require several additional steps in machining and manufacture. It might require stocking extra Commander spec components. I am guessing that they choose to leave these steps off because they think their shorter guns run okay without the full rearward travel that Commanders have. Some of them do and clearly, some don't. As far as I know, they are the only manufacturer that takes this short cut. Why they do it is none of my business.

The Commander (even when built to Colt specs) has a little over .100" less rearward travel than a Government Model. When you start taking away rearward travel, you change the point where the empty case is brought into contact with the ejector as well as how much more travel beyond that point is available. When you change the Commander system by leaving the recoil spring seat at the Gov't Model location, you take away another .100" of rearward travel. I'm not an engineer, but I know that if you don't let the case meet the ejector about .450" or more before the slide stops, then the energy that is smacking the case rim and launching the empty out of the pistol is reduced and ejection consistency and reliability will suffer.

I have reached the conclusion that in most Commanders and Officers pistols, the ejector nose should be approx. .280" forward of the front mounting leg. That's what I've measured from a number of Colt Commanders. Not all aftermarket ejectors have a nose that long. When you use an ejector with this nose length, you may have difficulty ejecting live rounds and need extra clearance at the front wall of the ejection port.

To make a non-spec gun to Commander spec takes a boring bar operation to face back the seat for the recoil spring guide by .100" to make it Commander spec. The lower barrel feet also have to be reshaped to Commander spec by removing a bit of steel from the front face, so it doesn't bump into the back side of the spring guide. The "button" in the center rear of the spring guide must be shortened to Commander spec for the same reason. Finally, the ejector should be set up as mentioned earlier.

you also have to remember that the FBI cancelled their orders for the SRP after 75 guns because Baer again cut corners.

The Les Baer SRP was designed for the FBI's Hostage Rescue Team (HRT) to replace their Wayne Novak-customized Browning Hi-Powers. Les and his team of pistolsmiths started with a Para-Ordnance P14-45 frame (.45 ACP/14rds) and added a variety of custom parts and touches, including Wayne Novak's LoMount sights and Walter Birdsong's Black-T finish. Unfortunately, Matt Gish, the pistolsmith who did most of the work on the trial SRP pistols left Baer to start his own shop, Gunsmithing Inc.. Baer tried to cut some corners on the delivered contract pistols, including the use of a different finish than the Birdsong Black-T. Once delivery began, there were lots of problems, mostly magazine related. In the end, pistolsmith Steve Nastoff was called in to correct the delivered pistols' deficiencies. Only 75 SRP pistols were delivered out of the 250 ordered before the contract was canceled.

thecableguy
01-11-2011, 16:08
WOW thanks for that Quack. I still want a Baer but is good to know this sort of thing for future reference.

DeepBlue
01-11-2011, 17:38
Likewise, thanks for the info...
I'm surprised the company doesn't correct the problem/process and then make a big deal about the fix.
It would be good pr.

IANative
01-11-2011, 18:00
With all due respect, Quack- please believe I'm not trying to be argumentative- the thing about the SRP raises my eyebrow a bit.

I fully understand Harrison's explanation for the Comanche slingshot issue- have read it before, in fact. I was only illustrating how easily the slingshot issue is overcome for someone for whom it is a concern. My C-VII runs 100%, slingshot included. Of course, YMMV.

The quote about the SRP, however, I haven't seen before. Which, of course, may only highlight my ignorance. To whom can we attribute that piece? I find it odd that the author blatantly accuses LB of cutting corners, but only specifically mentions the use of a different finish. Then he mentions magazine-related issues, but could that not be the fault of the magazines themselves, or the Para frames with which LB started? (I don't know if LB supplied the mags or not. I would think they'd come from Para, but I could be wrong.)

Finally, the SRP that LB currently offers is a huge success, with many Baer aficianados claiming it to be the best pistol in the LB stable. Of course, it's a single-stack, all-Baer design, which causes me again to consider the "Para factor" in your second quote above.

thecableguy
01-11-2011, 18:35
With all due respect, Quack- please believe I'm not trying to be argumentative- the thing about the SRP raises my eyebrow a bit.

I fully understand Harrison's explanation for the Comanche slingshot issue- have read it before, in fact. I was only illustrating how easily the slingshot issue is overcome for someone for whom it is a concern. My C-VII runs 100%, slingshot included. Of course, YMMV.

The quote about the SRP, however, I haven't seen before. Which, of course, may only highlight my ignorance. To whom can we attribute that piece? I find it odd that the author blatantly accuses LB of cutting corners, but only specifically mentions the use of a different finish. Then he mentions magazine-related issues, but could that not be the fault of the magazines themselves, or the Para frames with which LB started? (I don't know if LB supplied the mags or not. I would think they'd come from Para, but I could be wrong.)

Finally, the SRP that LB currently offers is a huge success, with many Baer aficianados claiming it to be the best pistol in the LB stable. Of course, it's a single-stack, all-Baer design, which causes me again to consider the "Para factor" in your second quote above.

Things that make you go HMMM. :supergrin:
So is this something that could be easily fixed or would you have to send out to a gunsmith to fix? Like I posted earlier I am going to purchase a Baer in the future I just like having all the info I can about the slingshot thing.

IANative
01-11-2011, 18:57
cableguy, hey, I used to live down that way. Have they found Rodman's boat yet? Ha!

I'm not a gunsmith, nor do I play one on TV. I only know what was done to my gun (by a smith) to eliminate the slingshot issue. I can perhaps give you his contact info via PM.

Quack
01-11-2011, 19:02
http://www.louderthanwords.us/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7769

the frame on teh right is a LB Stinger that Jason had modified.

It was asked elsewhere and it's worth showing here...

http://www.louderthanwords.us/mediumfoto/picts/ulfls/01092009/12286314571.jpg (http://www.hp1911.com)

This picture illustrates the difference relative to the slide stop pin hole between Government length rails/recoil seat position and Commander length rails/recoil seat position. The gun on the left is an un-modified Colt Government Model and the gun on the right is the pistol pictured above post cutting back the rails/recoil seat.

DeepBlue
01-12-2011, 07:41
Thanks for all the information and thoughts from all who posted...
http://i319.photobucket.com/albums/mm459/kclick_2008/DSC02051.jpg

dosei
01-12-2011, 09:10
VBOB. DW is really making some nice 1911's and the Valor is their flagship gun.

:thumbsup:

Or, if you are wanting something a little lighter, the Kimber Super Carry Pro.
http://www.kimberamerica.com/products/pistols/supercarry/supercarry_pro/
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i170/dosei/large_supercarry_pro.jpg