Top of the line range pistol comparison - LONG READ [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bac1023
04-17-2010, 22:59
While a thread like this takes a great deal of time and energy, I thought I'd share my opinions on some higher end range/target pistols, in case somebody is in the market for one. The PMs I gotten over time suggest that there are quite a few people here who appreciate guns like the models in this thread.

Some of these are strictly target/competition pistols, but some others are/were not actually intended for that purpose. However, I feel their overall quality and capabilities make them superb range guns.

While most of these are no longer produced, most are also readily available on the used market. A few of these are still built today, in an age where heavy metal, high quality pistols are fewer and farther between.

I'll also state the obvious and say the following is merely one man's opinion, not fact. I'm going to state some useful facts, such as composition, weight, and action type, but this body of work is based solely on my experience and preferences. Its also limited to my collection, so if your favorite pistol isn't listed, I either don't own it or don't feel it performs in the same class as the others in my hands. Fair enough?

The last thing to mention before starting, is that there are absolutely no 1911s in this test. Many of you know I'm an avid 1911 collector and I've said many times that its my favorite pistol. However, I post plenty about them already. For the sake of this work, they are watching from the sidelines.

The players here are as follows, and I'm going to group them a couple different ways:

First by caliber.


9mm:

Sig X-Five L1
Sig P210-6
Pardini GT-9
S&W PC952
Sphinx Competitor
HK P7M8
Benelli B76
MAB PA-15
Walther P88
Browning HP Competition


40S&W:

HK P7M10
CZ 75 Champion
Beretta 96 Steel I


45ACP:

HK Mark 23
S&W PC945


38 Special:

S&W 52


38 Super:

Tanfoglio Limited



Now by intended purpose.


Race/Competition/Target:

Sig Sauer X-Five L1
Pardini GT-9
Sphinx Competitor
Browning HP Competition
Tanfoglio Limited
S&W 52
CZ 75 Champion


Military/Service:

HK P7M8
Benelli B76
MAB PA-15
Walther P88
HK P7M10
HK Mark 23


Somewhere between:

Sig P210-6
S&W PC952
Beretta 96 Steel I
S&W PC945


Since I'm rating these as range guns, obviously some have a distinct advantage, but I'll get started. All ratings use a 1 to 10 scale, with 10 being the best.

I'll start with 9mms, which is my favorite range caliber.

bac1023
04-17-2010, 22:59
Sig X-Five L1

Frame: Stainless steel
Slide: Stainless steel
Unloaded weight: 46.2oz
Price: $2000-$2500
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 10
Trigger: 10
Ergonomics: 9
Grips: 10
Sights: 9
Controls: 8
Finish: 10
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 9.5

What's not to like? Hand built in Germany, the X-Five Level 1 is a supremely capable pistol. The trigger is incredible and also fully adjustable, the Nill grips are second to none, and the gun can group at 100 yards. On top of all that, its fit and finish are truly a sight to behold. It may be the best pure shooter Sig ever built.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1968.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1969.jpg







Sig P210-6

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 34.6oz
Price: $2500-$4000
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 9
Trigger: 8
Ergonomics: 8
Grips: 9
Sights: 5
Controls: 4
Finish: 7
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 7.5

While its a legendary pistol, the P210 is showing its 60+ year age here. Regardless of the rating, it one of my favorite pistols. However, there are reasons it only rates a 7.5 on my scale. In all fairness, the P210 started life as a military gun, not a target pistol, so its ergonomics aren't as nice as some modern models. What really hurts the score is the rather thin bluing on the frame and terrible frame mounted safety. Its one of the most awkward in all of handgunning. Still, the P210 is a Swiss legend that will keep rising in value. I'm looking to add a heavy frame model one day.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2241-1.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1865.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:00
Pardini GT-9

Frame: Aluminum
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 38.0oz
Price: $2000
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 9
Trigger: 10
Ergonomics: 7
Grips: 8
Sights: 8
Controls: 9
Finish: 8
Build quality: 9

Overall rating: 8.5

Here we have a very specialized target pistol in the Italian Pardini GT-9. It rates a solid 8.5 on my scale and one of my favorites at the range. The trigger is its strongest point, as is the overall smoothness of the gun. Its just a very slick pistol. The aluminum frame keeps this large pistol under 40oz, but its still very solid all around. I believe they're imported only through Larry's Guns these days.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1766.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1767.jpg






Smith & Wesson PC952

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 40.4oz
Price: $1500-$2000
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 10
Trigger: 9
Ergonomics: 8
Grips: 8
Sights: 10
Controls: 6
Finish: 10
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 8.9

Only a very poor safety kept this stellar pistol from a rating over 9. Since the safety doesn't come into play at the range, its probably my favorite non-1911 target pistol. Build quality, finish, and attention to detail are impeccable. Along with the X-Five, I shoot this gun 100 yards on occasion with surprising results. Again, like the X-Five, it may be the best pistol S&W ever built, which says a great deal.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1935.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1936.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:00
Sphinx Competitor

Frame: Stainless steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 40.8oz
Price: $2000
Action: DA/SA

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 5
Ergonomics: 9
Grips: 8
Sights: 8
Controls: 8
Finish: 9
Build quality: 9

Overall rating: 8.0

Sphinx pistols are CZ clones built in Switzerland with EAA parts. They're very well done overall, but tend to cost a good deal more than their just as capable CZ counterparts. The Competitor was one of the top of the line Sphinx 2000 series pistols. The big difference here is the DA/SA action, which hurts its trigger rating since I much prefer SAO pistols for target use. Ergonomics are typical CZ, so I love them.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1914.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/000_1915.jpg






HK P7M8

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 30.2oz
Price: $1000-$1500
Action: Squeeze cocker

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 7
Ergonomics: 9
Grips: 8
Sights: 7
Controls: 8
Finish: 7
Build quality: 9

Overall rating: 7.9

The P7M8 gives up quite a bit to the competition as a range pistol. While its fixed barrel helps keep its accuracy with the others, its just not the same platform. Build quality is fantastic, though the P7 bluing has always been on the thin side. They do fit my hand very well, hence the high ergonomic rating. All told, these are very high quality, unique duty pistols that just happen to perform well at the range. As a target pistol, its overmatched by most of this company, but that's certainly nothing to be ashamed of.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1926.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1927.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:00
Benelli B76

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 34.6oz
Price: $600-$900
Action: DA/SA

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 5
Ergonomics: 6
Grips: 7
Sights: 7
Controls: 5
Finish: 7
Build quality: 7

Overall rating: 6.5

Why did I include this, you ask? Well, because its an accurate, fixed barrel steel pistol. While its clearly overmatched here, it is a nicely done pistol and certainly very rare. Once again, the DA/SA trigger didn't help its rating, nor did the horrendous safety and odd mag release. Ergonomics are average, but the pistol puts a smile on my face, simply because its so unique. It also has the accuracy to hold its own in this group of high performers.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/001-3.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/004s.jpg






MAB PA-15

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 40.8oz
Price: $600-$800
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 6
Trigger: 8
Ergonomics: 9
Grips: 8
Sights: 5
Controls: 9
Finish: 7
Build quality: 8

Overall rating: 7.5

Honestly, I love this French service pistol. It reminds me of a Browning HP, but with a much, much better stock trigger and a more solid feel. The ergonomics, grips, and controls are outstanding for my hands and I love the near 41oz of weight at the range. It features a rotating barrel, as a cool touch. Accuracy may not be quite as good as most the others, but there's no doubt the MAB belongs in this comparison. It actually rated as high as the Sig P210. While its not comparable on many levels, its makes up for quite a bit because it fits me well.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/010.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/013-1.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:01
Walther P88

Frame: Aluminum
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 31.6oz
Price: $800-$1300
Action: SA/DA

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 7
Ergonomics: 7
Grips: 6
Sights: 9
Controls: 9
Finish: 7
Build quality: 8

Overall rating: 7.6

The P88 is Walther's aluminum framed service pistol introduced in 1988, hence the name. The price was nearly $1000, which was unheard of in the late 80's, and ultimately doomed the pistol. Aside from all that, what we have here is an outstanding quality service pistol that performs very well at the range. It has one of the best DA/SA triggers I've ever used and some impressive accuracy as well. Controls are well-placed and completely ambidextrous. While I didn't rate these pistols on looks, the P88 may be the nicest looking of the bunch.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2509.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_2511.jpg






Browning Hi-Power Competition

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 36.4oz
Price: $800-$1200
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 7
Trigger: 7
Ergonomics: 9
Grips: 8
Sights: 6
Controls: 7
Finish: 6
Build quality: 8

Overall rating: 7.2

This was FN's attempt to make a competition ready Hi-Power out of the box. While they managed to ruin all the HP's great looks in the process, it does have some enhancements worth discussing. First would be the trigger, it feels about half the weight of standard HP and certainly helps improve its accuracy. The longer barrel also helps, as does the extra weight attached at the end of the slide. While I love the control placement, the small safety is so hard to manipulate, it managed only a "7" rating.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/008.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/009.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:01
OK, let's look at a few 40S&W pistols. Its not my favorite caliber, but I'm rating these guns on their attributes, not the caliber they fire.



HK P7M10

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 42.8oz
Price: $2000-$3000
Action: Squeeze cocker

Accuracy: 9
Trigger: 7
Ergonomics: 7
Grips: 7
Sights: 7
Controls: 8
Finish: 9
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 8.0

This pistol is a tank at 42.8oz. It shoots the 40S&W softer than the P7M8 shoots the 9mm. I gave it a slightly higher rating in build quality, only due to the sheer amount of steel used. It also bested the P7M8 in accuracy, because the extra weight enables me to shoot it with more consistency. The overall rating was also a notch better. However, if I were rating these as carry guns, the opposite would be true. The P7M10 is the rarest of the production P7 series and, likewise, the most expensive to buy.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_1960.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_1958.jpg






CZ 75 Champion

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 40.6oz
Price: $1500
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 9
Trigger: 10
Ergonomics: 10
Grips: 9
Sights: 10
Controls: 9
Finish: 6
Build quality: 9

Overall rating: 9.0

This is my latest addition and a fantastic pistol, as you can see by the rating. In fact, it was this pistol that gave me the idea for this thread. A ranking that high is even better than I expected. The trigger is no more than 2lbs, with no travel whatsoever. It may be the best trigger in this contest. I only shot 50 rounds through it, but accuracy seemed terrific. Ergonomically, its a CZ 75, so its fantastic. I'm not real big on the finish. It will pass, but its nothing great. Build quality is solid.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/001-2.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/005-2.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:02
Beretta 96 Steel I

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 42.8oz
Price: $1200-$1800
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 7
Ergonomics: 8
Grips: 7
Sights: 7
Controls: 9
Finish: 10
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 8.3

The Steel I was Beretta's high end SAO pistol based on the 92 and 96. Its another heavyweight, tipping the scales at 42.8oz. The strong point of this pistol is the incredibly solid build quality and outstanding nickel based finish. The vertec ergonomics and controls work well for me. The trigger is precise, but too heavy for what it is. Honestly, it feels like 5-6 lbs. The sights are smallish, but work well enough. This is an impressive gun just to look at.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2249.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_2254.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:02
We're now going to move on to a couple 45ACP pistols.



HK Mark23

Frame: Polymer
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 39.4oz
Price: $2000
Action: DA/SA

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 5
Ergonomics: 6
Grips: 7
Sights: 7
Controls: 8
Finish: 9
Build quality: 8

Overall rating: 7.3

Here we have the only polymer framed pistol in the test. I wasn't going to include polymers, but the Mark 23 is an exception. This pistol is large and cumbersome from an ergonomic standpoint, but does perform very well for what it is. The trigger isn't the best, but accuracy remains good. The Mark 23 was originally built for the Navy Seals, but is now more of a novelty item. It features separate controls for the safety and decocker.


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1961.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1963.jpg






Smith & Wesson PC945

Frame: Stainless steel
Slide: Stainless steel
Unloaded weight: 40.6oz
Price: $1500-$2000
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 9
Trigger: 9
Ergonomics: 8
Grips: 8
Sights: 10
Controls: 10
Finish: 9
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 9.1

The 945 is the most like my favorite handgun, the 1911. Likewise, it got the highest ranking on controls since they're the most familiar to me. Aside from that, the 945 is an outstanding pistol in its own right. The trigger is precise, the action is smooth, and the build quality is just what you'd expect from the Performance center. I actually like the PC945 more than the PC1911. The two tone stainless finish is also very nicely done. This is a terrific handgun.

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1937.jpg

http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/000_1938.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:02
My last two entries are chambered in 38 Special and 38 Super, respectively.



Smith & Wesson 52

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 40.4oz
Price: $800-$1200
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 10
Trigger: 10
Ergonomics: 8
Grips: 8
Sights: 10
Controls: 6
Finish: 8
Build quality: 9

Overall rating: 8.6

The S&W 52 is strictly a bullseye gun, shooting 38 Special wadcutters only. It holds only 5 rounds in its mag, so this is the most competition focused gun here. The 52 was built long before the Performance Center was around and is the gun the PC952 is based on. Like the 952, the safety is terrible. However, unlike the 952, this would never be used as a carry gun. The trigger and accuracy rank among the top of the heap. The sights are large and easy to see and the build quality is outstanding.

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_1902.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_1903.jpg






Tanfoglio Limited

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 45.0oz
Price: $1100
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 8
Trigger: 9
Ergonomics: 8
Grips: 9
Sights: 9
Controls: 9
Finish: 9
Build quality: 8

Overall rating: 8.6

This is another CZ clone, built in Italy. The Limited moniker designates a race ready frame and some tricked out features, such as a huge magwell for fast reloads. For the price, you can't beat it, and it actually rated very highly due to its trigger and ergonomics. Its got the ingredients of a great target pistol. The hard chrome finish is very decent and accuracy is on par with this group of elite handguns. 38 Super is a fun caliber to boot.


http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_1975.jpg

http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n5/bac1023/000_1972.jpg

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:03
Now that I'm done, I'm surprised with a few of the results. I did not expect the P210 to place as low as it did and I sure didn't expect the Witness to place as high as it did. Like I said, I'm ranking them strictly as range guns and how well they shoot, handle, and feel at the range. I'm not ranking them solely on quality. If I had, the outcome would have been much different.

Having said all that, even the lowest ranking gun here is still an awesome pistol and there are other great handguns of mine that I didn't include for one reason or another.

Here are a few pics of the players ranking them from highest to lowest in this study.


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/014.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/015-2.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/017.jpg


The Sig X-Five came out on top as the best overall non-1911 range gun from the models I own. It is an awesome pistol in every way. Despite its price, its still a value for what you get.

This was not a head to head comparison, as there is no way I'd bring all these pistols to the range at once. Rather its a comparison of my impressions of each and I was as honest as possible.

I hope whoever took the time to read it all found it informative and interesting. To keep this thread from being too lengthy, I was very brief in my descriptions. However, please feel free to ask for more info on any particular model.

Thanks for your interest in my thread. :wavey:

raven11
04-17-2010, 23:15
tagged for future reference, thanks for taking the time to write the review

ronin.45
04-17-2010, 23:32
Great comparison Bac. I do love that Pardini.

I've wanted an X-5 since they were introduced.

BOGE
04-17-2010, 23:35
Where do you live Bac and when do you go on vacation? :whistling:



:supergrin::rofl: Nice presentation. Very nicely & tastefully done. :wavey:

moeman
04-17-2010, 23:36
Very interesting! Thanks!!!

So when you came up w/ the numbers for the trigger how did you go about it... Feel plus trigger gauge??

e.g. for a gun w/ a trigger of "5" in this setting could it be a "8" in a home defense setting and vice versa?

I know I would not want a 2-3 lb trigger in my nightstand gun.

BTW: The biggest surprise to me is that the SIG 210 was rated so low. I trust your evaluation, not calling you out. I've only read about them.

Could you make a list form the above of the gens that can also fill the home defense role. eg I have a P7M8 and while ts not my go to gun I would have no problem trusting it for self defense. I also have a revolver that is great for the range but due to its light trigger I never would use it for self defense.

bac1023
04-17-2010, 23:45
Very interesting! Thanks!!!

So when you came up w/ the numbers for the trigger how did you go about it... Feel plus trigger gauge??

e.g. for a gun w/ a trigger of "5" in this setting could it be a "8" in a home defense setting and vice versa?

I know I would not want a 2-3 lb trigger in my nightstand gun.

BTW: The biggest surprise to me is that the SIG 210 was rated so low. I trust your evaluation, not calling you out. I've only read about them.

Could you make a list form the above of the gens that can also fill the home defense role. eg I have a P7M8 and while ts not my go to gun I would have no problem trusting it for self defense. I also have a revolver that is great for the range but due to its light trigger I never would use it for self defense.


Sure moeman.

The trigger rating was done only by my preference, weight, and feel. They all have good triggers, but for the range, I prefer SAO with a light, crisp break. The CZ Champion, X-Five, Pardini, and the PC Smiths have the best, in my opinion.

As for the P210, its an old military pistol desin being compared to a bunch of modern target/competition guns. The small sights also hurt its accuracy, so one rating can affect another. Now, there are P210s with larger target sights, mine isn't one of them.

Based strictly on quality, the P210 is second to none. Its a legend for good reason.

As for home defense, I wouldn't use the big, bulky pistols like the X-Five, Pardini, Mark 23, or Tanfoglio. I also wouldn't use compensated pistols, such as the Champion or Competitor. The S&W 52 is out because of the ammo it fires. All others would do fine as an HD weapon.

Hope this helps.






.

Jim B in CO
04-18-2010, 00:02
Great thread and a lot of really good info. Thanks for taking the time to post it. :thumbsup:

Chonny
04-18-2010, 00:49
Absolutely great thread. Sig X-Five. Mmm.

sk65
04-18-2010, 03:29
Excellent job! I'm not surprised you put my favorite (X-Five) on the top of the list.

Doc226
04-18-2010, 04:36
Great review

Golddog
04-18-2010, 06:44
An instant classic thread. Thanks a lot, Bac. This is as close as most of us will ever get to testing these magnificent specimens.

And great photography, as ever.

joecoastie
04-18-2010, 07:55
Great thread! Thanks for taking the time to post it. I really like the 952 and 945. Reading your various posts here on GT has definitely helped me develop a taste for fine firearms.

G33
04-18-2010, 07:57
So many words!
:wavey::wavey:

bac1023
04-18-2010, 08:07
So many words!
:wavey::wavey:

Believe me, I know. :faint:

I was determined to get it done and completed it all in one day. Threads like this are cool and I enjoy working on them to an extent, but it can get tiresome real quick. :sigh:

bluelineman
04-18-2010, 08:38
Based on reading this & knowing that you have every 1911 ever made, I'm guessing that you:

1. Have a good job
2. Are not married! (I don't know any married guys that have this many guns)
3. Have a good carpet cleaner ;)
4. Are the envy of many people on GT, myself included :supergrin:

El_Ron1
04-18-2010, 08:39
Who won?

longhair
04-18-2010, 08:41
Bac- thanks for the great reviews. I, too, thought the sig 210 would rank higher, but I understand your reasoning for its score. Overall, a great source for some fine firearms.

bac1023
04-18-2010, 08:51
Who won?

The X-Five ranked the highest. That said, I actually like the 952 more.

However, for the purpose of this test, I had to take everything into consideration. The controls on the Sig are better and the Nills make it better ergonomically for my hand.

It matches the 952 in every other catagory, including accuracy, so I couldn't see fit to rank it as high. I guess I like the 952's slim profile and elegant looks better.

Berto
04-18-2010, 08:57
Nice work, Bac!!

Now do your favorite target revolvers.:supergrin:

Did this last week, Target Masterpiece model 14 K frame, 25yrds offhand.

http://brenny.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Range&action=display&thread=5217&page=1

bac1023
04-18-2010, 09:04
Nice work, Bac!!

Now do your favorite target revolvers.:supergrin:



That's an idea, Berto.

I don't think I've ever posted a revolver test on this forum.

I have some nice wheelguns, but not nearly the variety like I have with autos.

bac1023
04-18-2010, 09:05
Did this last week, Target Masterpiece model 14 K frame, 25yrds offhand.

http://brenny.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Range&action=display&thread=5217&page=1

Berto, your link isn't working. :dunno:

RWBlue
04-18-2010, 09:52
You gave a detailed spec. You rated them on your subjective criteria, but you didn't hit on the one item I want to know. How do they shoot? Groups man, post your groups, or better yet hold a party and have 6-10 people shoot and post all the groups.

Berto
04-18-2010, 09:56
Berto, your link isn't working. :dunno:

Ah, private forum, that's why.

Just picture a target with 6 holes siamesed on the top left corner of the ten ring, about 1.25" C-C. :supergrin:

bac1023
04-18-2010, 10:09
Ah, private forum, that's why.

Just picture a target with 6 holes siamesed on the top left corner of the ten ring, about 1.25" C-C. :supergrin:

:thumbsup:

12131
04-18-2010, 10:16
What happened? Here I thought, all this time, you contribute nothing to the forum.
You know, I'm just substituting for the bac bashers, since they're not here, today. :supergrin::tongueout:







Thanks for the great thread.:wavey::cool:

Glockdude1
04-18-2010, 10:44
Excellent posts Bac!!

:thumbsup:

bac1023
04-18-2010, 11:04
What happened? Here I thought, all this time, you contribute nothing to the forum.
You know, I'm just substituting for the bac bashers, since they're not here, today. :supergrin::tongueout:



Thanks for the great thread.:wavey::cool:


:rofl:

Thanks!

happyguy
04-18-2010, 11:13
A worthy post!

Regards,
Happyguy :)

CharlestonG26
04-18-2010, 11:13
Well done. :wave::wave:

bac1023
04-18-2010, 11:22
A worthy post!

Regards,
Happyguy :)

Well done. :wave::wave:

Thanks guys.

I appreciate that. :cool:

bac1023
04-18-2010, 11:24
You gave a detailed spec. You rated them on your subjective criteria, but you didn't hit on the one item I want to know. How do they shoot? Groups man, post your groups, or better yet hold a party and have 6-10 people shoot and post all the groups.

Wow, that would be something to see. :supergrin:

Seriously, I hear you on the groups. I was just at the range, but only brought the CZ Champion out of this bunch, since I just got it.

Hines57
04-18-2010, 11:28
Now if you just had a 229 sport to throw in the mix....

bac1023
04-18-2010, 11:29
Now if you just had a 229 sport to throw in the mix....

...its on my list for later this year. ;)

I also want an HK P7M13 and a Walther P88 Compact for the collection.

bac1023
04-18-2010, 15:56
Based on reading this & knowing that you have every 1911 ever made, I'm guessing that you:

1. Have a good job
2. Are not married! (I don't know any married guys that have this many guns)
3. Have a good carpet cleaner ;)
4. Are the envy of many people on GT, myself included :supergrin:

:rofl:

1 and 2 for sure. :supergrin:


...not sure about 3 or 4. :wavey:

D3S3RT_P3NGU1N
04-18-2010, 16:07
Excellent post, a great read :thumbsup:

GlockPride
04-18-2010, 16:08
Thanks for that! It was a delight even though I doubt I'll ever be able to afford any of those.

checkyoursix
04-18-2010, 16:20
Thank you, very interesting review of some very interesting pistols. Concise, consistent and faithful to its premises, a rarity these days.

unit1069
04-18-2010, 16:32
Wow! Great job, bac! Well-written, concise, and informative. This is exactly the kind of information that is so fascinating to me.

I say make this thread a "stickie".

unit1069
04-18-2010, 16:38
Deleted; double post

bac1023
04-18-2010, 19:28
Thanks for that! It was a delight even though I doubt I'll ever be able to afford any of those.

No, thank you actually. :wavey:

You know, that's what gave me some pause before writting this thread.

I've been truly fortunate to own these fine pistols, but I certainly didn't want the thread to be taken the wrong way by anyone.

So far, so good, I think. :)

However, other than the simple fact that I'm a collector, there is no reason even an avid shooter would need more than one or two of these. I look at this thread as a way of helping somebody choose the best one for them. Like I said, if anyone would like more detail about a particular pistol, feel free to ask.

UniversalBrow06
04-18-2010, 20:24
Complete target pistol beauty. Very well done. I want your Pardini. Bad.

Honestly, I'm just a little... little... tad curious how some of your high end 1911's stack up, but I'll trust your judgment in excluding them from the rankings.

Ok, I'll take your Mark 23 as well... really any of your HK's.

bac1023
04-18-2010, 20:34
Complete target pistol beauty. Very well done. I want your Pardini. Bad.

Honestly, I'm just a little... little... tad curious how some of your high end 1911's stack up, but I'll trust your judgment in excluding them from the rankings.

Ok, I'll take your Mark 23 as well... really any of your HK's.

Thanks.

In my opinion, 1911s should be tested against each other, but I certainly understand your curiosity.

I'm going to put together some sort of 1911 buyers guide at some point, but the format will be a bit different than this thread.

UniversalBrow06
04-18-2010, 20:36
Thanks.

In my opinion, 1911s should be tested against each other, but I certainly understand your curiosity.

I'm going to put together some sort of 1911 buyers guide at some point, but the format will be a bit different than this thread.

shucks, I didn't trick you into it. :tongueout:

bac1023
04-18-2010, 20:52
shucks, I didn't trick you into it. :tongueout:

I'll tell you what, I'll try to add a few of my best 1911s into this thread over the next few days. :cool:

Being that the 1911 is my favorite platform and that I own some full custom models built to the most minute detail, they should mop up these target pistols. A few of best semi customs will score very well also.

As good as they are, these are all production pistols, so going up against some of my 1911s isn't really fair.

TexasVine
04-18-2010, 20:53
Great post. It was definately an education! Thanks.

Cole125
04-18-2010, 20:55
:yourock: Thanks for taking the time to post the comparison. Just finished reading it all. Very helpful as I am in the market for a high end target type pistol myself. :wavey:

You should start your own youtube channel, you would be a big hit! Think about it at least.

bac1023
04-18-2010, 20:59
:yourock: Thanks for taking the time to post the comparison. Just finished reading it all. Very helpful as I am in the market for a high end target type pistol myself. :wavey:



That's awesome Cole. :cool:

Feedback like this from you and many others makes writing threads like this worth the time.

Let me know when you're ready to make a purchase.

DEADLYACCURATE
04-18-2010, 20:59
tagged :wavey:

THEPOPE
04-18-2010, 21:18
Couldn't have gotten a better review in any magazine.........pics as well, and prices.....

I smell a sticky.....if not, then I simply smell..........

a.

sticky.


I am out.......:cool:

bac1023
04-19-2010, 04:30
Couldn't have gotten a better review in any magazine.........pics as well, and prices.....

I smell a sticky.....if not, then I simply smell..........

a.

sticky.


I am out.......:cool:

If not, a search will easily bring it up. :)

gnepig
04-19-2010, 10:13
Job well done= this thread rates a 9 for profesionalism..

nathanours
04-19-2010, 14:29
Thanks for the review, I really will not be able to afford any of these pistols any time soon, but I live looking at your pictures.

true believer
04-19-2010, 16:56
made the thread a sticky..if it gets out of hand we can close it..thanks for thr research..
:cool:

glock2740
04-19-2010, 17:30
Very cool. I bet that did take awhile.

GreyEclipse
04-19-2010, 17:36
Great read! I'm not really into the "target/bulls-eye" type handguns, I prefer "combat" handguns but it was still very interesting and I always enjoy hearing your input on a certain or guns. Thanks for taking the time to write it all out! :cool:

bac1023
04-19-2010, 17:41
made the thread a sticky..if it gets out of hand we can close it..thanks for thr research..
:cool:

No problem. :)

Thanks for the sticky. :wavey:

ranger88
04-19-2010, 19:51
Great job on the review, Brian. I always appreciate your perspective on these types of firearms (and 1911's of course).

So far I only have a few of the guns that you reviewed, but the collection keeps growing. After my upcoming wedding, I'll be back to collecting with a purpose instead of just being a victim of opportunity. Hahahaha..... :supergrin:

Rinspeed
04-20-2010, 18:57
Very cool Brian :thumbsup:, thanks for putting this together my friend. I'm going to buy you a ransom rest for Christmas.

bac1023
04-20-2010, 20:36
Very cool Brian :thumbsup:, thanks for putting this together my friend. I'm going to buy you a ransom rest for Christmas.

Yeah, I need one. ;)

bac1023
04-20-2010, 21:20
As promised, here are a couple of my best 1911s to add to the mix for comparison.





Infinity custom

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 39.0oz
Price: $3700
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 10
Trigger: 10
Ergonomics: 10
Grips: 9
Sights: 10
Controls: 10
Finish: 9
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 9.8

This comparison is almost unfair, as the Infinity is a one off custom build being compared to a bunch of production pistols. The Schumann AET barrel is about the best handgun barrel you can buy anywhere. Between this and the incredible tight bull barrel lockup, the Infinity just flat out shoots. The trigger is the patented Tri-glide system at about 1.5 lbs. Its the best trigger on any handgun I own. The Infinicoat finish is impressive and its extremely well built by some very skilled hands.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2429.jpg

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2411.jpg






RRA Limited Match

Frame: Steel
Slide: Steel
Unloaded weight: 41.4oz
Price: $2400
Action: SAO

Accuracy: 10
Trigger: 9
Ergonomics: 10
Grips: 9
Sights: 10
Controls: 10
Finish: 9
Build quality: 10

Overall rating: 9.6

I've given this 1911 many accolades throughout the years I've owned it. I love everything about the Limited Match and the price includes the Black T finish. Unfortunately, RRA has stopped building 1911s, but they can be found once in a while on the used market. This model comes standard with a 1.5" accuracy guarantee at 50 yards and every feature you could want in a 1911. The Kart barrel also performs very well.

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/011-3.jpg

http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu81/ollituc/014-3.jpg

G33
04-20-2010, 22:16
Something stickey around here.
:supergrin:

Palouse
04-20-2010, 22:24
Great write up...thank you for your time you put into this.

bob_fuller
04-22-2010, 20:34
wow! that's pretty cool stuff, sir.

GRD67
04-22-2010, 21:53
Great post Bac, just curious, where would you rate the Glock in there?

NOLA_glock
04-22-2010, 22:20
That comparative review was awesome! You're always so knowledgeable and helpful on the subject of 1911s, and it's great that you took the time to do such a concise write-up covering multiple platforms.

I'm a little disconcerted with the lack of carpeting variety, however.:tongueout:



http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2411.jpg


That gold barrel be gangsta, dawg!!:cool:

Thanks again! Keep up the good posting, BAC.

rfd339
04-23-2010, 00:13
Thank you for your time for doing this great review. Being a 40sw fan I really like the write up on the CZ75 Champion .

bac1023
04-24-2010, 19:00
Thank you for your time for doing this great review. Being a 40sw fan I really like the write up on the CZ75 Champion .

Glad to hear.

Thank you. :)

Quack
04-30-2010, 17:57
Nice!!!

so i was driving home today and i was listening to a podcast, and thought "hmmm...bac1023 should do a podcast about the different guns he owns"
with 1911's that's about 47 episodes in itself :supergrin:

jp3975
05-01-2010, 08:24
Great post.

bac1023
05-01-2010, 17:42
Nice!!!

so i was driving home today and i was listening to a podcast, and thought "hmmm...bac1023 should do a podcast about the different guns he owns"
with 1911's that's about 47 episodes in itself :supergrin:

:rofl:

gruntmedik
05-01-2010, 19:19
Very nice review, as usual. :thumbsup:


Next review should be along the lines of suitable carpet for handgun pics. :supergrin:

deadite
05-01-2010, 20:11
How did I miss this thread? I guess I sorta ignore the stickies.

Nice work BAC! I dig the 38 Special wadcutter calibered Smith!

deadite

bac1023
05-01-2010, 23:31
Very nice review, as usual. :thumbsup:


Next review should be along the lines of suitable carpet for handgun pics. :supergrin:

Thanks! :rofl:

bac1023
05-01-2010, 23:31
How did I miss this thread? I guess I sorta ignore the stickies.

Nice work BAC! I dig the 38 Special wadcutter calibered Smith!

deadite

Thanks deadite.

Yeah, the stickies are easy to pass by without even realizing it.

iconoclast
05-06-2010, 03:11
Hello bac,

I appreciate the time and effort you placed into your post, as I have considered purchasing a few of the models you have listed.

I would love to hear your opinions on several more models I am still considering, particularly with regard to (listed in general order of my priority)
1. trigger (weight, feel, action)
I consider the CZ Tactical sport the benchmark target pistol trigger and assume your CZ champion has a very similar if not identical trigger action.

2. ergonomics (grip size, angle, trigger distance, balance, weight)
I would likely place the CZ-SPO-1 or SIG 226 X5 Level 1 as the benchmarks in this category.

3. sights

4. recoil and weight


Models I am considering include:

1. Beretta 92 Steel
- now ruled out based upon your description of the trigger.

2. S&W PPC 9mm
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

3. Beretta 92 Combat
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

4. Beretta 92 Target
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

5. Tanfoglio Gold Team Elite 9mm
- in particular I would like to hear your comparisons between this model and the CZ Tactical Sport and Champion.
-I was seriously considering this gun for its factory compensator, ported barrel, and fitted magazine well but eventually passed due to numerous reports of difficult repair and parts availability and very poor customer service.

6. HK USP expert 9mm
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

7. HK USP Elite 9mm
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

8. Glock 17L with Vanek trigger kit
- I already own this, but would like your opinion for comparisons to other models (above).

9. CCF raceframe with g34 or g17L slide
- I already own this, but would like your opinion for comparisons to other models (above).

10. STI Targetmaster, 9mm
- I already essentially ruled this pistol out secondary to its ergonomics, and expensive, limited capacity, and questionably reliable magazines, though I would like to hear your experiences and comparisons


Many thanks for your insight.

SSR

1911ES
05-06-2010, 03:51
Excellent work, and super pictures in this very informative, and I'm sure, time consuming Post .... :wow:
How many years did it take to accumulate this fine arsenal of pistols ? Again, very cool thread ..... :bowdown:

bac1023
05-06-2010, 07:37
Excellent work, and super pictures in this very informative, and I'm sure, time consuming Post .... :wow:
How many years did it take to accumulate this fine arsenal of pistols ? Again, very cool thread ..... :bowdown:


Thanks for the compliments.

I've been collecting handguns for a long time, but all the pistols in this thread were purchased over the last four years or so.

bac1023
05-06-2010, 08:26
Hello bac,

I appreciate the time and effort you placed into your post, as I have considered purchasing a few of the models you have listed.

I would love to hear your opinions on several more models I am still considering, particularly with regard to (listed in general order of my priority)
1. trigger (weight, feel, action)
I consider the CZ Tactical sport the benchmark target pistol trigger and assume your CZ champion has a very similar if not identical trigger action.

2. ergonomics (grip size, angle, trigger distance, balance, weight)
I would likely place the CZ-SPO-1 or SIG 226 X5 Level 1 as the benchmarks in this category.

3. sights

4. recoil and weight


Models I am considering include:

1. Beretta 92 Steel
- now ruled out based upon your description of the trigger.

2. S&W PPC 9mm
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

3. Beretta 92 Combat
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

4. Beretta 92 Target
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

5. Tanfoglio Gold Team Elite 9mm
- in particular I would like to hear your comparisons between this model and the CZ Tactical Sport and Champion.
-I was seriously considering this gun for its factory compensator, ported barrel, and fitted magazine well but eventually passed due to numerous reports of difficult repair and parts availability and very poor customer service.

6. HK USP expert 9mm
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

7. HK USP Elite 9mm
- likely ruled out as it is no longer available from the factory.

8. Glock 17L with Vanek trigger kit
- I already own this, but would like your opinion for comparisons to other models (above).

9. CCF raceframe with g34 or g17L slide
- I already own this, but would like your opinion for comparisons to other models (above).

10. STI Targetmaster, 9mm
- I already essentially ruled this pistol out secondary to its ergonomics, and expensive, limited capacity, and questionably reliable magazines, though I would like to hear your experiences and comparisons


Many thanks for your insight.

SSR


Wow, let's see.

For starters, I do believe the CZ TS and Champion have identical triggers, though CZ claims the Champion has more hand fitting in the building process. Either way, they both have outstanding triggers. Since the Champion is gone now, the Tactical Sport is pretty much CZ's top pistol.

The Smith PPC-9 is for all intents and purposes, a double stack 952.

The Tanfoglio triggers are very nice. I have the Limited, which has the same trigger as the Gold series. That said, its not as light or crisp as the Champion's trigger.

I don't have any experience with the Vanek trigger kit, so I can't comment.

As far as the STI is concerned, I don't feel its quite up to the quality level as some of these target pistols. I do love the 1911 trigger, but for the price of some of these pistols, you can get a better 1911 then the Targetmaster.

Thge USP Expert and Elites are nice pistols, but I don't feel they have triggers on par with some of these SAO models.

The Berettas are also very nice, but I'd take the Steel model over the Target or Combat.

FWIW, I would not rule out a pistol just because its no longer in production.

Hope this helps somewhat. :)

iconoclast
05-06-2010, 21:56
Once again bac,

Thanks for your time and effort.

Your opinions on the Beretta Steel, SW PPC 9, Tanfoglio, and STI are particularly helpful - I suppose I can put those issues to rest and keep my eyes open for a nice PPC 9 and/or CZ champion (it seems someone recently purchased the last one on the continent :supergrin:).


Good luck and happy collecting.


SSR

bac1023
05-12-2010, 21:11
Once again bac,

Thanks for your time and effort.

Your opinions on the Beretta Steel, SW PPC 9, Tanfoglio, and STI are particularly helpful - I suppose I can put those issues to rest and keep my eyes open for a nice PPC 9 and/or CZ champion (it seems someone recently purchased the last one on the continent :supergrin:).


Good luck and happy collecting.


SSR

Thanks.

Glad you liked the report. :)

Tactical black
06-07-2010, 12:22
Great review Brian I can't believe I missed this thread so far I can't wait to see your 1911 buyers guide. :cool:

awtCZ
06-07-2010, 13:22
Great review Brian I can't believe I missed this thread so far I can't wait to see your 1911 buyers guide. :cool:

You're welcome for the heads up! :whistling:

Tactical black
06-07-2010, 18:15
You're welcome for the heads up! :whistling:

Thanks man :)

bac1023
06-07-2010, 21:01
Great review Brian I can't believe I missed this thread so far I can't wait to see your 1911 buyers guide. :cool:

Thanks. :)

Yeah, I need to get working on that at some point. :sigh:

Rinspeed
06-08-2010, 04:22
Thanks. :)

Yeah, I need to get working on that at some point. :sigh:




Let me know when you want to start. :whistling:

dne752
06-08-2010, 04:44
That's an idea, Berto.

I don't think I've ever posted a revolver test on this forum.

I have some nice wheelguns, but not nearly the variety like I have with autos.

A Colt, Ruger, S&W and anything else you've got tucked away "shootout" of the .357 caliber would be interesting. No raceguns or performance center gun, maybe replacement grips and small DIY tweeks.

bac1023
06-09-2010, 16:01
Let me know when you want to start. :whistling:



:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Chonny
06-13-2010, 17:32
This thread is an absolute sham. Not one damn 1911 in the entire review.

Just kidding.

I would really love to get a P226 X Five.

bac1023
06-13-2010, 19:47
This thread is an absolute sham. Not one damn 1911 in the entire review.





:rofl:

bac1023
06-13-2010, 19:48
I would really love to get a P226 X Five.

You wouldn't be disappointed. :)

ctfireman
07-14-2010, 14:16
Awesome write up! I can't believe i never saw this thread before.

LEAD
07-14-2010, 14:24
I thought there were a lot of feeding problems with the x five


how about who makes the best .22lr target pistol?

bac1023
07-14-2010, 15:21
I thought there were a lot of feeding problems with the x five


how about who makes the best .22lr target pistol?

I never had a single issue with my X-Five.

As far as a rinfire goes, the S&W 41 would be my nice. However, I don't spend much on rimfires.

bac1023
07-14-2010, 16:02
Awesome write up! I can't believe i never saw this thread before.

Thanks! :cool:

Sticky threads can get overlooked easily. I've done it many times. :embarassed:

tog
08-09-2010, 20:26
good job bac

that sig is delicious
and some of the others in there surely need to be looked at as well

ET.
08-10-2010, 08:26
Shoot, I can do that. Sorry I don't have the pictures though, but here goes...

My Hi-Point is a Jennings clone and a darn good one if you ask me. I like the way it doesn't fit in my hand. But when I compare it to my S&W Sigma I can tell that the Sigma is cheap and built to stay that way. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it because the 12 lbs. trigger pull requires me to squeeze so hard it ends up aimed at the sky or the guy next to me at the range.:wow: He rated it a 4, at least that is how many knuckles I saw coming at me right before I passed out.

So...do I get a sticky also?

bac1023
08-14-2010, 18:45
Shoot, I can do that. Sorry I don't have the pictures though, but here goes...

My Hi-Point is a Jennings clone and a darn good one if you ask me. I like the way it doesn't fit in my hand. But when I compare it to my S&W Sigma I can tell that the Sigma is cheap and built to stay that way. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it because the 12 lbs. trigger pull requires me to squeeze so hard it ends up aimed at the sky or the guy next to me at the range.:wow: He rated it a 4, at least that is how many knuckles I saw coming at me right before I passed out.

So...do I get a sticky also?

:rofl:

Tactical black
08-16-2010, 09:55
Shoot, I can do that. Sorry I don't have the pictures though, but here goes...

My Hi-Point is a Jennings clone and a darn good one if you ask me. I like the way it doesn't fit in my hand. But when I compare it to my S&W Sigma I can tell that the Sigma is cheap and built to stay that way. I can't hit the broad side of a barn with it because the 12 lbs. trigger pull requires me to squeeze so hard it ends up aimed at the sky or the guy next to me at the range.:wow: He rated it a 4, at least that is how many knuckles I saw coming at me right before I passed out.

So...do I get a sticky also?

I vote yes if you can come the stories coming :rofl::rofl::rofl:

iconoclast
08-19-2010, 01:57
So when do you plan on adding this to your collection?


http://www.czub.cz/en/catalog/240-subcompact-compact-standart-competition-adapters/PCOM/CZ_75_TS_CZECHMATE.aspx



http://czcustom.com/checkmatets.aspx



http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2010/08/03/cz-75-czechmate-pistol-coming-stateside/

http://stuartwong.wordpress.com/2010/07/30/165/

http://thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/08/robert-farago/czechmate-cz-75-land-stateside/

"Cold Dead Hands" !
08-24-2010, 23:32
G34 or G35 would rate #1, but you don't have one yet.
Good news is, the G34 is half the price & weight, with twice the capacity.

bac1023
08-25-2010, 04:11
G34 or G35 would rate #1, but you don't have one yet.
Good news is, the G34 is half the price & weight, with twice the capacity.

:rofl:

Really, the G34 holds more rounds than the Sig X-Five and Pardini GT-9? Now that's impressive!

This thread isn't about weight, cost, or capacity.





.

one eye joe
10-03-2010, 14:16
A VERY interesting thread, indeed. Thanks for your time and effort. As a shooter of handguns in combat, competition, hunting, self defense, and just plinking over the past 50+ years, I must say that the 9mm is my LEAST favorite caliber for any of the aforementioned purposes. Obviously you are knowledgeable, so I'm wondering what prompts you to make the statement that the 9mm is your favorite ''range caliber'' (whatever that implies). I'm a 45ACP lover, and have carried a Colt 1911 almost daily since 1968. I realize you collect 1911s and didn't test any, but that sheds no light on your statement, and just adds to my curiosity.......

bac1023
10-04-2010, 19:43
A VERY interesting thread, indeed. Thanks for your time and effort. As a shooter of handguns in combat, competition, hunting, self defense, and just plinking over the past 50+ years, I must say that the 9mm is my LEAST favorite caliber for any of the aforementioned purposes. Obviously you are knowledgeable, so I'm wondering what prompts you to make the statement that the 9mm is your favorite ''range caliber'' (whatever that implies). I'm a 45ACP lover, and have carried a Colt 1911 almost daily since 1968. I realize you collect 1911s and didn't test any, but that sheds no light on your statement, and just adds to my curiosity.......

Joe, I honestly just like the way the 9mm handles. I also love all the cool pistols chambered for it.

The thread wasn't about 1911s, but I did add a couple later on at some member's request.

They're in post #70.

one eye joe
10-04-2010, 20:14
BAC1023, You are certainly entitled to your preferences and opinions. I am just surprised that a person of your knowledge/experience would embrace the 9mm to such a degree. Thanks for responding to me, and best wishes. PS..I checked post#70. Those are some GORGEOUS 1911s ! !

bac1023
10-06-2010, 20:46
BAC1023, You are certainly entitled to your preferences and opinions. I am just surprised that a person of your knowledge/experience would embrace the 9mm to such a degree. Thanks for responding to me, and best wishes. PS..I checked post#70. Those are some GORGEOUS 1911s ! !

Thanks Joe.

Yeah, the 9mm may be my favorite round, with the 45ACP a close second. :)

Spdjunkie
10-07-2010, 12:39
Yeah, the 9mm may be my favorite round, with the 45ACP a close second. :)
:agree:, Same for me

bac1023
10-31-2010, 19:47
:agree:, Same for me

:cool:

Gallium
12-09-2010, 16:18
Late tag.



Excellent work sir!

'Drew

Roger G23
12-14-2010, 20:40
And I thought I was a pistol enthusiest...wow, I'm humbled.
Just one issue, I can't believe the CZ Shadow is not listed among the best 9mms in the world, as i truly believe, it must be.

bac1023
12-14-2010, 21:14
And I thought I was a pistol enthusiest...wow, I'm humbled.
Just one issue, I can't believe the CZ Shadow is not listed among the best 9mms in the world, as i truly believe, it must be.

Thanks.

As for the Shadow, I don't own one. However, I don't doubt its fantastic. CZ makes some incredible handguns. I love the Champion I have in 40S&W.

bac1023
12-14-2010, 21:14
Late tag.



Excellent work sir!

'Drew

Thanks Drew :cool:

Carrabelli
12-26-2010, 20:03
Fantastic review Thanks for your time and effort.

bac1023
01-02-2011, 08:15
Fantastic review Thanks for your time and effort.

Thanks!