ATF Announcement, January 25th, 2011 [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Raleigh Glocker
01-20-2011, 13:08
Looks like the Saiga is next on the list to be banned from import. Let's hope they don't go all the way and declare them "destructive devices," or there will be a total ****storm. Either way, the conversion industry will be screwed.

http://blog.princelaw.com/2011/1/20/atf-to-issue-new-ruling-on-monday-regarding-new-restrictions-on-shotgun-importation

triggerjerk
01-20-2011, 13:36
Not good.

I'm sure the accessories biz will do fine as there are still alot in country.

Jon_R
01-20-2011, 13:53
That sucks. Should have bought one.....

IMO the shotgun has limited use other then sporting. :)

USPSA 3-Gun is a sport.

pal2511
01-20-2011, 15:34
Good thing I just bought one... Now I gotta pick up some magazines and maybe another before prices get crazy

1time
01-20-2011, 16:09
You can't import AK rifles either. I'm sure some company (CAI probably) will put the requisite us made parts in it and charge more $ for it. It is funny that it currently illegal to use a large capacity mag in them without changing out the right amount of parts.

Victoriagotagun
01-20-2011, 21:43
Looks like the Saiga is next on the list to be banned from import.

While ATF would not comment on which shotguns will be named in this ruling

:whistling:

-gunut-
01-21-2011, 01:59
:whistling:

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

WhiskeyUnicorn
01-21-2011, 05:37
Check that off as another infringement on my right to bear arms. Soon we'll only be able to buy and own single shot black powder muskets. ****ing bull****...

DaGroaner
01-21-2011, 08:37
That sucks. I was hoping to replace the ones I lost just yesterday in a boating accident.

Victoriagotagun
01-21-2011, 10:11
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out.

Instead of everyone panicing don't you think they should wait and see if this is actually true? Every gun forum is posting the same source for this info.

mdfd
01-21-2011, 17:55
wow....the price gouging has already begun....

Raleigh Glocker
01-21-2011, 18:39
wow....the price gouging has already begun....

Where? Looking at all of the usual suppliers, new Saigas are still $500-550.

rjrivero
01-21-2011, 21:19
That sucks. I was hoping to replace the ones I lost just yesterday in a boating accident.
Yeah. I took mine duck hunting. It's not a sporting gun, so when I couldn't hit ducks with it, I got frustrated and threw it out of the canoe......:wow:

jhooten
01-22-2011, 19:11
Local Pawn shop has one with 3 mags and a drum for $800. I would be willing to part with the drum IF I go buy it.

mac66
01-23-2011, 12:11
Local Pawn shop has one with 3 mags and a drum for $800. I would be willing to part with the drum IF I go buy it.

Well, new 5 round Saiga mags are about $15. 10 round mags are $33.95 ea and the MD20, 20 round mags, which are the good ones, are $80 ea. plus shipping. The Promag 10 & 12 round drums are also around $80 new.

The value of the mags vary depending on who makes them and when. Early drums and 10 round mags had function problems that the latter ones don't. The point being they are not worth the same as new mags.

IMO, $800 for a Saiga and mags is too much unless it has already been converted to a pistol grip type. Otherwise, I would offer half that to start.

Draven21
01-23-2011, 12:48
The good news is if the worst case scenario happens and the become destructive devices, we can chop the barrels to whatever length we want.:supergrin:

DaGroaner
01-23-2011, 13:13
The good news is if the worst case scenario happens and the become destructive devices, we can chop the barrels to whatever length we want.:supergrin:

I would have to move to a different state and/or sue the Obama Admin or sell mine to a dealer who would undoubtedly only be offering pennies on the dollar for the glut of S-12s that would be on the market, assuming they even gave us time to sell them off.

tx787
01-23-2011, 13:25
My guess would be they ban import, if you look at other long arms which aren't allowed to be imported a lot are less "scary looking" than the Saiga 12.

Kalmah
01-23-2011, 16:42
I've been wanting a Saiga for a while, but I just never got around to buying one. I just heard this news yesterday, and it certainly motivated me. I ordered one last night.

Hopefully the vendor hasn't been overrun with orders this weekend, and my order actually goes through and is processed.

MacG22
01-23-2011, 17:18
"No sporting purpose."....

The second amendment never mentions a **** thing about "sporting purpose".

ennis
01-24-2011, 11:22
Owning a Destructive Device, puts you in a whole different level of scrutiny and paperwork jungle. Even if you are willing to go through it, transferring it becomes another LARGE hassle. Ask someone who owned a USAS 12.

method
01-24-2011, 12:30
Like said above, the 2nd has nothing to say about or do with sporting purposes.

Either way, I take off the light, and this is a perfectly good 100 yard deer/hog/black bear gun. Which is something that won't ever be said about a Street Sweeper or USAS.

http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/7004/php4d3m9epmjn9.jpg

Raleigh Glocker
01-24-2011, 17:29
Well, it turns out that this guy is a known *********. Even the ATF knows he's a rumor monger:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=62179&view=findpost&p=595657

Another forum member contacted the ATF directly, and this is what he got:
http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=62179&view=findpost&p=595797

So, a "study" might eventually be posted by the ATF, but no import ban for the Saiga seems to be planned. I was particularly sensitive to this guy's rumor because I have my first ever Saiga 12 at E-TAC nearly ready to be shipped out. I felt like it would be just my luck to finally buy the coolest gun ever and never get to shoot it.

PlasticGuy
01-24-2011, 19:33
Whether this rumor has any substance (and it appears it may not), I think now would be a good time to buy a Saiga if you want one. Between rumors like this and financial problems for the manufacturer, there are a lot of things that could happen that would slow or stop the flow of these shotguns.

Kalmah
01-24-2011, 19:40
I just ordered one from K-Var over the weekend.

It's interesting to note K-Var raised their Saiga prices today by $30.

1time
01-24-2011, 22:58
You mean the sky didn't fall. The single source seemed so credible.:upeyes:

glockenturm
01-26-2011, 04:35
The Taurus Raging Judge 28 gauge revolver got nixed by the ATF. It has no ability to shoot a handgun cartridge. The S12 is safe. As I understand the 12g AR shotgun from Turkey got approved for importation. One dealer in the Austin area jacked up his price that I know of.

I think it was a test to monitor internet chatter.

poodleshooter1
01-26-2011, 20:50
So they did not get banned then?

raven11
01-26-2011, 20:57
So they did not get banned then?

No, you can still buy Saiga

8th SPS USAF
01-26-2011, 20:58
Ennis,

I had a FA USAS 12 . Just regular Title II paperwork back then.

ennis
01-26-2011, 21:19
I had one too. Even that amount of paperwork was enough for me to sell mine. Too bad, It was an interesting gun.

Raleigh Glocker
01-27-2011, 06:56
No, you can still buy Saiga

The problem now is finding one. I've read posts from people buying up to 7 Saigas at a time over the weekend. Every major Saiga retailer is out, and from what distributors are saying, it will be at least a month before any more are imported.

You probably can still find them here or there at gun shops or pawn shops, but you will have to look. It seems that the going price is now $600, when it was $500 just last week.

This Joshua Prince jackhole might have been a single source, but he seemed credible enough to fool almost everyone in the industry, not just the average Joe Saiga owner.

mac66
01-27-2011, 09:27
If you didn't have reason to buy a Saiga before, why do you need one now? Makes no sense to knee jerk react to the sudden demand.

PlasticGuy
01-27-2011, 13:34
I think the true value of this whole thing is as a wake up call for many of us. It would be just that easy for them to be banned from import, or even classified as destructive devices. Sure it didn't happen this week, but what about next week, next month, or next year?

Raleigh Glocker
01-27-2011, 14:54
Well, the guy wasn't completely full of crap, afterall:
http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearms/012611-study-on-importality-of-certain-shotguns.pdf

Does not look like Saigas as imported will have a problem, but there are some vagaries regarding the ability to accept a large capacity magazine produced for military purposes.

ETA: So far, the Saiga importer will be continuing to import them, and various aftermarket conversion companies see this as "business as usual."

Scattergun1187
01-27-2011, 16:48
I heard today that the new Kel-Tec KSG shotgun is under review by the ATF.
Go figure.

DaGroaner
01-27-2011, 17:04
I wonder how much we paid for that ridiculous "study"?

Scattergun1187
01-27-2011, 17:48
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay To Much!!!!!!!!

glockenturm
01-28-2011, 00:53
Seems like the Benelli tactical and the Arsenal S12s with the picattiny rails may have to be changed out according to the "study".
The RAAC S12 seems to be one of the few imported shotguns not thumbing their noises at the ATF.
Has the ATF ever pre-announced a ban our do they just do it with no warning?

nastytrigger
01-30-2011, 14:35
And I had put money down on a Taurus 28ga revolver... NOT! :whistling: