Legal question about my LEO discount [Archive] - Glock Talk

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deerhuntr88
01-21-2011, 22:58
I don't know where to find the law on this, so I figured maybe someone on here could help me.

Is it legal to buy a weapon using my law enforcement discount and "sell" or "give" it to my dad.

I don't want to break any laws, but I want to help my dad save some money on some guns he wants to buy. If it's against the law, I'm not doing it, but I just don't know the rules.

Any help?

NC Bullseye
01-21-2011, 23:16
How about you get him a membership to the Glock Sport Shooting Foundation and then buy his gun for him from them? Their price is close to the Homeland Security discount that LE get and it would be totally above board and no gray areas.

Their site
http://www.gssfonline.com/

Their purchase program details.

http://www.gssfonline.com/GSSF_Pistol_Purchase_Program_Information.pdf

It'd be fun for him too!

Vigilant
01-21-2011, 23:59
Plus, I would think about the definition of a straw purchase.

MeefZah
01-22-2011, 00:54
Sure, it's legal. The discount is a corporate thing and has no legal / criminal merit.

No way is it a straw purchase if it is a gift to your dad, assuming he is legally able to own a gun.

actionshooter10
01-22-2011, 01:46
Sure, it's legal. The discount is a corporate thing and has no legal / criminal merit.

No way is it a straw purchase if it is a gift to your dad, assuming he is legally able to own a gun.

This is good legal advice.

The question you have to ask yourself is if you feel ok doing it.

OLY-M4gery
01-22-2011, 03:10
Plus, I would think about the definition of a straw purchase.

The definition of a straw purchase is a purcahse made on the behalf of someone that is disqualified from possesing a firearm.

It is not a straw purchase to buy a gun as a gift, and give it to a person that could legally purchase a gun themselves.

ETA----------------

If by LEO discount, you by a weapon that federal excise tax (FET) hasn't been applied to, then yes selling/giving that weapon bought as a duty to a non-leo would be a violation of tax laws.

dmacker
01-22-2011, 06:31
I don't know where to find the law on this, so I figured maybe someone on here could help me.

Is it legal to buy a weapon using my law enforcement discount and "sell" or "give" it to my dad.

I don't want to break any laws, but I want to help my dad save some money on some guns he wants to buy. If it's against the law, I'm not doing it, but I just don't know the rules.

Any help?

This is straight from the ATF questions and answers regarding the law on "straw purchases".

"Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. In the above exam- ple, if Mr. Jones had bought a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Smith as a birthday present, Mr. Jones could lawfully have completed Form 4473. The use of gift certificates would also not fall within the category of straw pur- chases. The person redeeming the gift certificate would be the actual purchaser of the firearm and would be properly reflected as such in the dealer's records".

Hack
01-22-2011, 06:57
Getting it as an officer purchase and directly thereafter gifting it to anyone, including relatives, near relatives, could look like a bad thing if someone was able to follow a trail so to speak. If not bought as an officer purchase, but say you found a good used gun on the market that was similar, (even though it was used by an officer before being sold on the used market), provided that it was not a gun that was bought new on officer purchase and immediately sold as used by the individual officer, would probably be OK. It would be best to check with state law concerning that, and with BATFE directly, and be sure to record any conversation with any of them for documentation.

Malstorme
01-22-2011, 07:14
in order to qualify for the discount, you have to provide a letter signed by your Chief that certifies the weapon is being purchased for on duty use and is not being purchased for sale or transfer. I'd think that lying on an official document would qualify as perjury, so my vote is for illegal.

Here's the relevant excerpt from my local cop sho as well as another random one I pulled off the web:

I hereby certify, under penalty of perjury, the above named law enforcement officer will use the requested firearm and/or large capacity ammunition feeding devices for use in performing official duties. In addition, the firearm and/or large capacity ammunition feeding devices are not being acquired for personal use or for purposes of resale.

SOURCE (http://opstulsa.com/download/iopurchopt.pdf)

, [Name of Officer purchasing weapon] hereby certify under the penalty of perjury that I am a [Rank of Officer purchasing weapon] employed by [Agency Employing Officer] And that the Glock firearm described below that I am purchasing from The Gun and Bow Rack, LLC is for on or off duty use and is not being purchased for resale.

Glock [Model Number] Caliber [Caliber] Sight [Sight If Purchased] Mag Capacity [Mag Capacity] Serial Number [Will Be Assigned By Seller Leave Blank] Date Sold [Will Be Assigned]

<PHOTOCOPY OF POLICE ID IN SPACE BELOW>


SOURCE (http://www.usglock.com/index_files/formsreq.htm)

I seem to remember reading about keeping the weapon for at least a year, but I'll have to look for a source on that later...

Hack
01-22-2011, 07:23
in order to qualify for the discount, you have to provide a letter signed by your Chief that certifies the weapon is being purchased for on duty use and is not being purchased for sale or transfer. I'd think that lying on an official document would qualify as perjury, so my vote is for illegal.

Here's the relevant excerpt from my local cop sho as well as another random one I pulled off the web:



SOURCE (http://opstulsa.com/download/iopurchopt.pdf)



SOURCE (http://www.usglock.com/index_files/formsreq.htm)

I seem to remember reading about keeping the weapon for at least a year, but I'll have to look for a source on that later...

I had heard something like this myself. Now, the shop that I go to allows us to come in and just show our credentials, and they then make a copy of said credentials and from there we purchase at the officer price.

Vigilant
01-22-2011, 08:54
I had heard something like this myself. Now, the shop that I go to allows us to come in and just show our credentials, and they then make a copy of said credentials and from there we purchase at the officer price.

That is how it has always worked for me.

And thanks to the others for the info on a straw purchase. I myself will probably still refrain.

deerhuntr88
01-22-2011, 10:35
The plan here is this:

My dad wants... let's say a .22 rifle. I can get it cheaper with my discount. He would pay me for it, and I would buy it with my discount then "give" or "sell" it to him. From what I gather there is no legal problem with this?

deerhuntr88
01-22-2011, 10:36
anyone have any links to the law on this?

MeefZah
01-22-2011, 10:45
in order to qualify for the discount, you have to provide a letter signed by your Chief that certifies the weapon is being purchased for on duty use and is not being purchased for sale or transfer. I'd think that lying on an official document would qualify as perjury, so my vote is for illegal.

I dispute this.

This used to be the case, but anymore, and especially with Glock's LE / EMS / military / anyone with a pulse discount; I have bought several Glocks and only had to show creds. The purpose of the letter is to avoid having to do the background check (hence the caveat about no domestic violence convictions being included in the new wording of the letter - not reflected in your post). The letter has nothing to do with the price of the gun. Now granted, this is in Ohio, so it may be different in various states.

Since Ohio has instant backgrounds, there is no reason to get the letter - which incidentally, can be signed by any supervisor, not just the chief.

MeefZah
01-22-2011, 10:50
The plan here is this:

My dad wants... let's say a .22 rifle. I can get it cheaper with my discount. He would pay me for it, and I would buy it with my discount then "give" or "sell" it to him. From what I gather there is no legal problem with this?

No. It's fine.

Look, it is not a straw purchase as long as Daddy-O can own the gun legally, we have established that.

So now the only issue is the "morality" of getting a discount and then passing that on to your old man. Substitute "gun" for "coffee", if you get a free cup and give it to your dad, is that unethical? How about if you know someone at the car dealership and they give you an extra $1000 trade in on a car that you are actually buying for your dad? Unethical? Some here think so, I personally don't think so.

NC Bullseye
01-22-2011, 11:33
Glock offers two different options, first if the gun is for duty there are no taxes collected and you can not resell it without some stipulations and you must have an authorization letter. If it's bought under the program as an individual officer then taxes are collected and resale is not an issue.

All of this is detailed on the second sheet of the Glock Individual Officer Price Sheet. If you call Glock they will send it to you via email or regular postal mail.

deerhuntr88
01-22-2011, 12:11
Thanks for the help fellas...

MarcDW
01-22-2011, 13:32
From the law you are OK as long your father is not prohibited form purchasing a firearm.
The only thing I can think of is, that some company ask you to take an oath in writing that the firearm is for duty use only and that you don't sell it under a year.
Now I don't know how enforceable this is and IMHO it has no legal meaning.

BamaTrooper
01-22-2011, 14:05
Plus, I would think about the definition of a straw purchase.

If he is buying it as a gift that is not a straw purchase (unless his dad is prohibited from possessing).

dvrdwn72
01-22-2011, 14:12
I dont know for sure if it is a law, but I believe a leo is a leo,, if you want to purchase a gun, for a family member, just the fact you are a leo, you should be entitled to, a benifit of you job. Now its one thing if your useing you status to buy for friend's and just anybody else, especially for profit, but buying for family members who can legally own a gun is another.

deerhuntr88
01-22-2011, 14:17
Cool, that's what I needed to know. Any for the record, my dad is ok to buy and own a gun, he just wants to save some money...

Patchman
01-22-2011, 15:12
Cool, that's what I needed to know. Any for the record, my dad is ok to buy and own a gun, he just wants to save some money...

Save some money...? How's the economy gonna get better by people not spending beyond their means, like we used to in the good old days?

In all the years since I've purchased blue label Glocks, no one (Feds, State, agency or Glock Inc.) has asked me to verify I still have those guns. If you feel more comfortable, establish a paper trail from dad (signed and notorized letter) stating he received a particular gun (serial number, etc...) from you as a gift.

deerhuntr88
01-22-2011, 15:21
Save some money...? How's the economy gonna get better by people not spending beyond their means, like we used to in the good old days?



Come on now, you know what I meant.

dvrdwn72
01-22-2011, 15:48
Come on now, you know what I meant.if you are a leo, which you must be, you have every right to use that discount to purchase a gun for your father. I call it a benifit to the job you do.

MooseJaw
01-22-2011, 16:00
The question you have to ask yourself is if you feel ok doing it.


I had a similar situation..

My Gun Club had a Members Only sale of Glocks (retired from a local PD)..

So I bought a G27 for my son, as an off-duty / backup for his Dept issued G22..


I felt great about doing that.. :wavey:

scottydl
01-23-2011, 12:12
This is probably less of a legal question, and more of an ethical question regarding the policy of the shop where you end up buying the rifle that offers the LEO discount. If you agree by signing some form that you the weapon is for personal use, and then you immediately sell or give it away... then I'd say you are violating that store's policy. Not that anyone will hunt you down for it, but it would be taking advantage of the shop in a possibly unfair way. Only you can decide that.

Glock422
01-23-2011, 12:29
When you go to a Glock stocking LE Blue Label Dealer, in order to get the "LE Discount", the dealer will have you sign a piece of paper that says you promise not to sell the weapon for ONE YEAR, or until you retire. That protects them from selling it at the tax out price to you and then you re-selling it. It clears them from liability.

It is a federal excise tax issue, and is unethical in many ways.

If you transfer the weapon to your father, wouldn't he have to pay the firearms transfer fees anyway? Maybe he is better off just buying a slightly used weapon, and everyone can sleep at night.

I don't know where to find the law on this, so I figured maybe someone on here could help me.

Is it legal to buy a weapon using my law enforcement discount and "sell" or "give" it to my dad.

I don't want to break any laws, but I want to help my dad save some money on some guns he wants to buy. If it's against the law, I'm not doing it, but I just don't know the rules.

Any help?

tudor128
01-24-2011, 01:23
When you go to a Glock stocking LE Blue Label Dealer, in order to get the "LE Discount", the dealer will have you sign a piece of paper that says you promise not to sell the weapon for ONE YEAR, or until you retire. That protects them from selling it at the tax out price to you and then you re-selling it. It clears them from liability.

It is a federal excise tax issue, and is unethical in many ways.

If you transfer the weapon to your father, wouldn't he have to pay the firearms transfer fees anyway? Maybe he is better off just buying a slightly used weapon, and everyone can sleep at night.

I've bought three blue label GLOCK's in the past few years and have never signed any such piece of paper. As for the federal excise tax, individual officers still pay that. It's just on agency purchases that the excise tax is waived and this does require submission of additional paperwork.

actionshooter10
01-24-2011, 04:33
When you go to a Glock stocking LE Blue Label Dealer, in order to get the "LE Discount", the dealer will have you sign a piece of paper that says you promise not to sell the weapon for ONE YEAR, or until you retire. That protects them from selling it at the tax out price to you and then you re-selling it. It clears them from liability.

It is a federal excise tax issue, and is unethical in many ways.

If you transfer the weapon to your father, wouldn't he have to pay the firearms transfer fees anyway? Maybe he is better off just buying a slightly used weapon, and everyone can sleep at night.

I agree that it's an ethical question.

The form you speak of must be a NY thing. I've purchased several glocks with the public safety discount and have never seen anything like it in TX.

Tudor128 has it right. Individual officers MUST pay the federal excise tax. The only way the excise tax is not paid is if the agency purchased the weapon.

MeefZah
01-24-2011, 06:41
I've purchased several glocks with the public safety discount and have never seen anything like it in TX.


Nor in Ohio.

MarcDW
01-24-2011, 07:02
Some LE distributor have it, some don't.
I quit buying form the one who do, since it's a PITA and they wanted a copy of the 4473.
So I send them a mostly blacked out copy CIA style! :tongueout:

lawman800
01-26-2011, 02:33
LE priced Glock guns are sold freely as are S&W LE guns at the local LE store as long as you have LE creds... or Fire/EMS or even private security creds... whatever. I don't see a legal problem with it. Now, letters bought on department letterhead have different stipulations and those are for officer's individual duty use only.

redneck1861
06-12-2011, 00:13
I know this is really old, but here in order to buy the blue label LE Glocks, all you have to do is show your creds, and they make a copy. I do believe that you can only buy 1 per year, or every 6 months. And you are supposed to keep it for a year. I have never heard of them coming to check to see if you still have it or not. I did want to buy my dad one, but the dealer said that I cant buy it to give away using the LE discount.

Is there a place that will give discounts on any gun to LEO's?

lawman800
06-12-2011, 01:05
There are no limits to how many you can buy per year or how many per transaction in CA for LE Glocks. I can go in and buy one of each if I wanted to... if I won the lottery and still worked as a cop, that is.

Some manufacturers have LE discounts, and some shops might give a LEO a bit of a break on their retail price but not all manufacturers have a LE price so you wouldn't get anything that is a blanket across the board discount. For example, Howa doesn't really make anything LE specific and neither does Bersa nor Rossi. Don't expect LE discounts on those guns.