Need some help here, guys. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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bac1023
01-23-2011, 07:09
No, this is not another Highroad thread. ;)

People are looking for the ultimate 9mm and I gave my opinion. In post #26, a member made a blanket statement that a Sig P210 will outshoot ANY 1911, which I know for a fact is nonsense and I promptly defended my favorite design.

The P210 is one of the most accurate factory 9mms ever built, but it will not outshoot a Les Baer 1.5" and many other semi customs. Its certainly isn't as accurate as my Infinity. I've had them at the range together.

I love when people read up all the hype and make ridiculous comments with no experience.

Anyway, your support is needed. The fun starts on page two.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437735

As I said there, I'm not knocking the P210. I love them. However, I don't even think its the most accurate factory pistol, let alone it besting the top 1911s.

Even if you have no P210 experience, trust me, its a factory pistol, not a laser gun.

I have no clout over there whatsoever and I'm fighting a losing battle. However, I know I'm correct on this. The P210 should outshoot just about any factory production 1911, which already makes it a force to be reckoned with. I gave it its props. However, these guys think its the be-all end-all of handgun accuracy.

I'm not looking to start a war, I would just like a little support from my 1911 buddies. Our gun of choice is taking a beating. ;)

fasteddie565
01-23-2011, 08:44
First, most folks (97% or more) that own either pistol cannot shoot to the capabilities of said pistol.

Second, there are so many factors like type of ammo, condition of the gun, etc that can come into play, how could you split the hairs to say its the gun or something else?

Lastly, I think you are embarking on an adventure to try and convert a Muslim to Christianity.... or vice versa, Online. Neither of you will convince the other as to their belief.

You have your beliefs and he has his. If you insist on debating this cat, state your points based on fact and disagree with what he says and not the person.

I know you sought guidance on the 1911, but what I care more about is productive and useful exchange in the forums I frequent.

My $.02, its worth what you paid for it.

bac1023
01-23-2011, 09:26
First, most folks (97% or more) that own either pistol cannot shoot to the capabilities of said pistol.

Second, there are so many factors like type of ammo, condition of the gun, etc that can come into play, how could you split the hairs to say its the gun or something else?

Lastly, I think you are embarking on an adventure to try and convert a Muslim to Christianity.... or vice versa, Online. Neither of you will convince the other as to their belief.

You have your beliefs and he has his. If you insist on debating this cat, state your points based on fact and disagree with what he says and not the person.

I know you sought guidance on the 1911, but what I care more about is productive and useful exchange in the forums I frequent.

My $.02, its worth what you paid for it.


OK. I didn't seek guidance.

My point is that the other "cat" has no experience with the said guns. He made a blanket statement that was erroneous and I called him out. The 1911 isn't a specific model like the P210 is.

You're right, neither of us will prove the other wrong, but forums are all about debate.

Quack
01-23-2011, 09:39
the P210 ships with a 50-meter (54.7 yd) test target typically showing a group of five to ten shots in a cluster under 5 cm (2 in) in diameter.

the Baer 1.5" @ 50yards

now if he's talking 9mm, then the SACS 9mm 1911 does 1.75"(standard Nowlin barrel) and 1.85" (bull barrel) 3group/10shot/50yard average over 8 different types of ammo, with the smallest group being 1.09" with the bull barrel.

so that should end the thread.

bac1023
01-23-2011, 09:49
the P210 ships with a 50-meter (54.7 yd) test target typically showing a group of five to ten shots in a cluster under 5 cm (2 in) in diameter.

the Baer 1.5" @ 50yards

now if he's talking 9mm, then the SACS 9mm 1911 does 1.75"(standard Nowlin barrel) and 1.85" (bull barrel) 3group/10shot/50yard average over 8 different types of ammo, with the smallest group being 1.09" with the bull barrel.

so that should end the thread.

Don, my P210's target is about 4" at 50 meters, but I never knew if that was a ransom shot or not. :dunno:

Quack
01-23-2011, 09:50
beats me, i've only handled one of them.
the above was all that i could find in reference to accuracy besides people saying that it'll out shoot a 1911. no factual data to back that claim.

bac1023
01-23-2011, 09:52
Here's my P210's target at 50 meters.

Like I said, I don't know if this is a ransom group or not. I'm thinking not, just a hand rest.

Other than the flyer, it looks like a good group.


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/001-10.jpg

Quack
01-23-2011, 09:53
dunno.

i lied...i just found another article.

We measured the groups with and without the flyers. Now this is cheating a bit, because you don't get to throw out the first shot in any real-world setting, so the average accuracy is 1.81 "

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_7_47/ai_75287331/pg_2/?tag=content;col1

bac1023
01-23-2011, 09:57
dunno.

i lied...i just found another article.



http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_7_47/ai_75287331/pg_2/?tag=content;col1

That's 25 yards, my friend. ;)

gconan
01-23-2011, 09:59
Bac, you have a typo on the thread. Your Baer shot a 5 round group, not 3.

Cerebrus
01-23-2011, 10:05
I dunno Bac.. ya seem to be holding yer own quite nicely over there.. :supergrin:

bac1023
01-23-2011, 10:05
Bac, you have a typo on the thread. Your Baer shot a 5 round group, not 3.

I was never sure how many rounds Baer fired, but I'll take your word for it. :)

Quack
01-23-2011, 10:11
That's 25 yards, my friend. ;)

yep, so 1.8" @ 25 would be 3.6"@50.

bac1023
01-23-2011, 10:29
I dunno Bac.. ya seem to be holding yer own quite nicely over there.. :supergrin:

Thanks.

I actually got my ass handed to me, but that's OK.

Like I said, I gave the P210 its props, but I'm also being realistic. It doesn't have to best a custom fitted 1911 to be the legendary pistol that it is.

bac1023
01-23-2011, 10:30
yep, so 1.8" @ 25 would be 3.6"@50.

Which is exactly what my group looks like. :)

38 Super Fan
01-23-2011, 10:58
I chimed in just for the fun of it. :wavey:

DAT85
01-23-2011, 11:18
No, this is not another Highroad thread. ;)

People are looking for the ultimate 9mm and I gave my opinion. In post #26, a member made a blanket statement that a Sig P210 will outshoot ANY 1911, which I know for a fact is nonsense and I promptly defended my favorite design.

The P210 is one of the most accurate factory 9mms ever built, but it will not outshoot a Les Baer 1.5" and many other semi customs. Its certainly isn't as accurate as my Infinity. I've had them at the range together.

I love when people read up all the hype and make ridiculous comments with no experience.

Anyway, your support is needed. The fun starts on page two.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=437735

As I said there, I'm not knocking the P210. I love them. However, I don't even think its the most accurate factory pistol, let alone it besting the top 1911s.

Even if you have no P210 experience, trust me, its a factory pistol, not a laser gun.

I have no clout over there whatsoever and I'm fighting a losing battle. However, I know I'm correct on this. The P210 should outshoot just about any factory production 1911, which already makes it a force to be reckoned with. I gave it its props. However, these guys think its the be-all end-all of handgun accuracy.

I'm not looking to start a war, I would just like a little support from my 1911 buddies. Our gun of choice is taking a beating. ;)

The "bubba factor" can be pretty high over at the THR
forum.

I learned that a Taurus PT1911 is just as good as any of my Baer 1911's over there.:whistling:

I stopped reading that forum a LONGGGGG time ago.

IMHO your trying to use logic on Cletus.:faint:
Your probably going to fail.

DAT85

Mr. Gekko
01-23-2011, 11:20
Can't help much, sorry. I got banned from there a while back after getting in a "few" arguments. :embarassed:

bac1023
01-23-2011, 11:23
Can't help much, sorry. I got banned from there a while back after getting in a "few" arguments. :embarassed:

That fine, my friend.

I may get banned myself. ;)

MD357
01-23-2011, 11:56
Yeah, when he says he can reproduce 1.25 groups @50yds off a rest then I KNOW he's FOS. Gonna second what DAT58 said, it's like craftsman had a sale on tools over there.

bac1023
01-23-2011, 12:07
Yeah, when he says he can reproduce 1.25 groups @50yds off a rest then I KNOW he's FOS. Gonna second what DAT58 said, it's like craftsman had a sale on tools over there.

Thanks MD.

I've been a member there for a while, but its the first time I remember running into this sort of thing.

That said, I don't do much posting, so that's probably why.

38 Super Fan
01-23-2011, 12:21
Wow, that guy is really a fool. DAT85 is on the money, it's just no use to talk to someone like that. :shakehead:

bac1023
01-23-2011, 12:27
Wow, that guy is really a fool. DAT85 is on the money, it's just no use to talk to someone like that. :shakehead:

Yeah, he's a character for sure.

He's got nothing and he's arguing like he does. He doesn't even know which guns I'm talking about.

Mr. Gekko
01-23-2011, 12:43
What a tool..... What the hell is up with that guy writing statements in the middle of his screen name at the end of his posts?

deadite
01-23-2011, 13:50
He's got nothing. Don't sell yourself short. You're beating him. Besides a million posts on that forum, he's not coming up with any proof besides, "Put it on a ransom rest." Where are his group pictures?

Guys like that are blowhards. Probably works in a gunshop.

deadite

glock2740
01-23-2011, 14:47
Well Brian, I would help you out over there, but I've been banned for life. :crying:Screw that "forum". They suck ass. :rofl:

Rinspeed
01-23-2011, 15:18
Here's my P210's target at 50 meters.

Like I said, I don't know if this is a ransom group or not. I'm thinking not, just a hand rest.

Other than the flyer, it looks like a good group.


http://i660.photobucket.com/albums/uu324/cutillo_2009/001-10.jpg





I posted a pic of the group shot by Short Cut's Baer in the thread at TFL. In defense of the 210 Brian that group is not typical of most of the others I have seen shot at 50m. :dunno:

bac1023
01-23-2011, 15:34
I posted a pic of the group shot by Short Cut's Baer in the thread at TFL. In defense of the 210 Brian that group is not typical of most of the others I have seen shot at 50m. :dunno:

Yeah, maybe so Jeff.

Other than the one flyer though, its under 2".