S&W M&P Tactical 5.56NATO thoughts? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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USMCSGT ARMYMP OHLEO
01-23-2011, 11:42
Well its been awhile since I have looked at AR's and ownd one (last I built was a colt lower/bm upper with a few toys) anyway I'm looking at the following
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765653_-1_757913_757798_757797_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y



S&W M&P Tactical 5.56NATO priced at $1180.00


1. does the price seem good/right?

2. I would assume the quality is "good" but anyone own one? Pos and Cons?

3. I've never bought from out of state ....how much should I expect the dealer here in Ohio to charge me for the transfer?

KalashniKEV
01-23-2011, 11:54
Well its been awhile since I have looked at AR's and ownd one (last I built was a colt lower/bm upper with a few toys) anyway I'm looking at the following
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765653_-1_757913_757798_757797_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y



S&W M&P Tactical 5.56NATO priced at $1180.00


1. does the price seem good/right?

2. I would assume the quality is "good" but anyone own one? Pos and Cons?

3. I've never bought from out of state ....how much should I expect the dealer here in Ohio to charge me for the transfer?

1) No. Even at a good discount off MSRP, that price range is above BCM/LMT/DD and in Noveske territory.

2) Quality is not good. And note the 1/9... which is perfectly fine if you're only going to shoot M193, but usually denotes a commercial grade product. Refer to the chart.

3) $35

ETA: Just noticed the price... that's a hell of a discount!

But why not buy this and have... for a tiny bit more... literally, more than 10x the rifle...

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1400

trlcavscout
01-23-2011, 12:12
For $1100 you could have an LMT, Colt, BCM. But I did have a guy tell me the Smiths ran good for the money and they do LE/MIL training. He said they run good compared to mid tiers stuff at least. But for that price their is better.

Turbodreams
01-23-2011, 12:12
1) No. Even at a good discount off MSRP, that price range is above BCM/LMT/DD and in Noveske territory.

2) Quality is not good. And note the 1/9... which is perfectly fine if you're only going to shoot M193, but usually denotes a commercial grade product. Refer to the chart.

3) $35

ETA: Just noticed the price... that's a hell of a discount!

But why not buy this and have... for a tiny bit more... literally, more than 10x the rifle...

http://www.rainierarms.com/?page=shop/detail&product_id=1400
$200 Troy rail, and a $200 set of troy flip up sights. Plus its all mil-spec made for 5.56. Its far from a commerical grade product.

The rifle is excellent. Shoots great and the quality is great. The rail and sights are very nice and def worth the cost.

And yes, I do own it.

trlcavscout
01-23-2011, 12:21
$200 Troy rail, and a $200 set of troy flip up sights. Plus its all mil-spec made for 5.56. Its far from a commerical grade product.

The rifle is excellent. Shoots great and the quality is great. The rail and sights are very nice and def worth the cost.

And yes, I do own it.

So you are putting the 20" DUBS on a Nissan instead of a Cadillac? So why not buy the S&W ORC for $750 then $400 for the rail and sights if you want Troy? I see them around $750 once a month here locally, normal retail price is like $850. But not all mil-spec is the same.

USMCSGT ARMYMP OHLEO
01-23-2011, 12:36
$200 Troy rail, and a $200 set of troy flip up sights. Plus its all mil-spec made for 5.56. Its far from a commerical grade product.

The rifle is excellent. Shoots great and the quality is great. The rail and sights are very nice and def worth the cost.

And yes, I do own it.


Any feed problems and how many rounds do you have down range on yours?

USMCSGT ARMYMP OHLEO
01-23-2011, 12:40
I really am looking at long range practice with the weapon and Iron no optics for now....Its been a year now without solid range time

Turbodreams
01-23-2011, 13:31
So you are putting the 20" DUBS on a Nissan instead of a Cadillac? So why not buy the S&W ORC for $750 then $400 for the rail and sights if you want Troy? I see them around $750 once a month here locally, normal retail price is like $850. But not all mil-spec is the same.
And yet, its still the same price after all is said and done. Do the math.
Any feed problems and how many rounds do you have down range on yours?

Not one problem, with 3 different type of brass case ammo. Id say around 12-1500 rounds down since I bought it in August.

USMCSGT ARMYMP OHLEO
01-23-2011, 13:46
And yet, its still the same price after all is said and done. Do the math.

Yeah I noticed that too.....the price seemed good to me ...

Not one problem, with 3 different type of brass case ammo. Id say around 12-1500 rounds down since I bought it in August.

Sounds good I've read good reviews of this weapon and its reliability..

Turbodreams
01-23-2011, 14:02
Sounds good I've read good reviews of this weapon and its reliability..

Its been great for me so far. Granted its not top of the line, but its way above and entry level AR15.

Serbonze
01-23-2011, 14:07
I chose that AR after quite a bit of searching. It had everything that I wanted and needed (even according to "the chart") and everything that I would have upgraded without the hassle. I'm a civilian and I'm not going to war, so I dont need everything to be mil-spec.

No issues at all so far.

I ordered mine from Buds, and it was a very easy process. I had never done that either. All I had to do was contact my local FFL and let them know that it was coming.

Good luck with your purchase!

williamN
01-23-2011, 15:15
A quality rifle with the bonus of a top of the line FF rail and sights.

Both my MP15s shoot 75gr as accurately as 55gr and they both eat brass and steel case ammo.

cowboy1964
01-23-2011, 15:56
M&P rifles are decent, especially compared to the likes of Rock River and the "cheaper" brands. It's all about the components.

Don't sweat 1:9 twist.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

GlockPride
01-23-2011, 16:24
I bought 15X for the wife about a year and half ago. Probably doesn't have 200 rounds down range, but it's a nice solid platform. Now that we are out in the country I expect her to shoot it alot more once it warms up.

I would definitely buy another Smith AR.

surf
01-23-2011, 18:16
Well its been awhile since I have looked at AR's and ownd one (last I built was a colt lower/bm upper with a few toys) anyway I'm looking at the following
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_765653_-1_757913_757798_757797_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y



S&W M&P Tactical 5.56NATO priced at $1180.00


1. does the price seem good/right?

2. I would assume the quality is "good" but anyone own one? Pos and Cons?

3. I've never bought from out of state ....how much should I expect the dealer here in Ohio to charge me for the transfer?1) $1180 Price is good. It would be hard to go wrong.

2) Quality is good, but there is better. It is a good mid level rifle and it will probably do all that you ask of it.

3) You will have to factor shipping and transfer fee, which is normal no matter what you purchase online or out of state. You may be able to avoid FFL fees if you qualify for LEO purchase and can have it shipped direct to a PD address with a dept letterhead.

If you are an LEO you could purchase these rifles with a discount. They are better quality base rifles, with better accessories.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-M4.aspx for $1325 LEO price
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-M4V2.aspx for $1315 LEO price
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-XV.aspx for $959 LEO price

There are many more deals to be found out there, these are only a few examples.

USMCSGT ARMYMP OHLEO
01-23-2011, 18:36
1) $1180 Price is good. It would be hard to go wrong.

2) Quality is good, but there is better. It is a good mid level rifle and it will probably do all that you ask of it.

3) You will have to factor shipping and transfer fee, which is normal no matter what you purchase online or out of state. You may be able to avoid FFL fees if you qualify for LEO purchase and can have it shipped direct to a PD address with a dept letterhead.

If you are an LEO you could purchase these rifles with a discount. They are better quality base rifles, with better accessories.
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-M4.aspx for $1325 LEO price
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-M4V2.aspx for $1315 LEO price
http://dsgarms.com/ProductInfo/DD-XV.aspx for $959 LEO price

There are many more deals to be found out there, these are only a few examples.

thanks for the info ....I keep finding more and more deals ouy there Im likeing the DD the more I read up on them...

and I also found a place up the street from my house that list $10 FFl fee so thats not bad at all and I'll ask if its free for LE

boomhower
01-23-2011, 19:17
For general use it will be fine. It's a pretty solid deal with nice accessories. If you may be shooting at something that will be shooting back I would go for something a little higher quality.

93GT
01-23-2011, 19:50
I have about 2000 rounds through mine since June 2008. No jams, groups well with 55 grain fmj, and the price was right. I am searching for a 1 in 7" 18 inch AR-15 next, but I am not getting rid of this one anytime soon. My only regret is not having the money to shoot it more often.

glock22357
01-24-2011, 14:33
I love my M&P15T (see avatar pic.)

Like others have said, it's a good deal for what you get with the Troy FF rails and sights. Really, the only issue is the steel that the barrel is made of, it's one small step down from Milspec, but for recreational shooting and HD/SD, that really doesn't matter, they aren't select fire and civilians aren't fighting hours long battles.

I have probably 2500 rds of M193 through mine, with no malfunctions of any kind. Accurate, reliable, and a sweet configuration with the rails, sights, and ready for an Eotech/Aimpoint optic, VFG and light.

2240
01-24-2011, 17:26
M&P rifles are decent, especially compared to the likes of Rock River and the "cheaper" brands. It's all about the components.

Don't sweat 1:9 twist.

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=pwswheghNQsEuEhjFwPrgTA&single=true&gid=5&output=html

+1. Unless you're planning to shoot military tracers and 77 gr+ bullets 1/9 is fine. As a matter of fact you'll get longer barrel life with a slower twist gun and better accuracy. Always crack me up when mall ninjas get worked up about a must have 1/7 because "their" army uses 1/7.
S&W are good to go.

boomhower
01-24-2011, 17:35
+1. Unless you're planning to shoot military tracers and 77 gr+ bullets 1/9 is fine. As a matter of fact you'll get longer barrel life with a slower twist gun and better accuracy. Always crack me up when mall ninjas get worked up about a must have 1/7 because "their" army uses 1/7.
S&W are good to go.

A 1/9 M&P barrel is not going to be more accurate than a quality 1/7 barrel. It uses a subpar metal to boot. It'll work well enough for most users but it's likely going to have a shorter life and will not be any more accurate. It will still outlast most plinkers that go through a few hundred rounds a year but it still is what it is.

glock22357
01-24-2011, 18:13
A 1/9 M&P barrel is not going to be more accurate than a quality 1/7 barrel. It uses a subpar metal to boot. It'll work well enough for most users but it's likely going to have a shorter life and will not be any more accurate. It will still outlast most plinkers that go through a few hundred rounds a year but it still is what it is.

Since the bore/chamber is chromed, the steel the barrel is made from (4140 instead of 4150, if I'm right) shouldn't make any difference in life span. Now, if we're talking select-fire/full-auto with very high temps, I'd agree with you. But since this is not select-fire, it shouldn't matter.

In the AR fanatics quest to have the latest and best, I'd suggest that sometimes "the chart" gets over-played. Forums like AR15.com, M4Carbine.net, and this forum are populated by the bleeding edge of firearms enthusiasts that shoot alot more often and alot more rounds than the average shooter, but I've yet to read here about anyone wearing out a barrel.

If I'm missing some piece of crucial info on barrel steel/life span, please share with all of us.

A suggestion to the OP, go to BCM's website and build a copy of the M&P15T (16" mid-length, Troy rails and sights) to see where you're at price point wise. I messed around for a few minutes checking, and you'd end up around $1500 for a comparable BCM set-up, with the only real difference being the barrel steel. And the money you would save could go towards ammo, mags, optics, etc.

Top tier per the chart? Nope.

Top tier for what anyone outside of the Military needs? Yup.

Do I still want a BCM just to be able to say I have a top tier M4gery? Yup:supergrin:

dale mcminnis
01-24-2011, 19:11
I have a M&P 15 shoots great the only problem is ammo.It does'nt like Silverbear,I've changed to Fedeal American Eagle.No problems.

surf
01-24-2011, 19:25
I've shot out my share of milspec steel barrels. Being a member of a couple of the sites mentioned has nothing to do with it either. :supergrin:

Having said that a 4140 steel barrel will be more than sufficient for your average shooter. An average 1:9 will do just fine with most ammo weights. One of my 1:9 HBAR's will shoot 75gr very very well, but while there may be many more, mine is only a single sampling.

XDMerciless
01-24-2011, 19:39
1. does the price seem good/right?

For ~$1200 that sounds about right for everything your getting. But for the price I would definitely look at some alternatives.


2. I would assume the quality is "good" but anyone own one? Pos and Cons?

I got my MP15T back when S&W started to roll them out and bring them in-house. Earlier models were essentially rebranded Stags, and mine were in that series. Unfortunately, during the assembly process, they placed a commercial stock on a mil-spec buffer tube which resulted in a rather noticeable amount of play in the stock, and more importantly failed to properly fasten the hex screws on the gas block, which eventually worked loose. I replaced mine and red Loctited them and haven't had a problem since. The earlier low-profile gas blocks were aluminum, but I believe they now use steel and pin them in. I've had roughly 4-5k rounds of .223 through it, and 10k of 22 LR or more through it. During the time, I had the hammer pins break on me, which given the high round count and the way the hammer rides a 22 kit wasn't too surprising, replaced with KNS anti-walk pins. Other than that, I can not think of any major malfunctions. On my particular model there weren't M4 feed ramps, which again even for the moderate round count of .223, it does show wear on the upper receiver - exactly where the M4 cuts would have been. It does eat anything I throw at it, no hiccups with Wolf, Silver Bear, or Brown Bear. The most accurate load I put through it was Hornardy Match 75 Grain BTHP, and could consistently deliver under 3/4 MOA, which is surprising for a 1/9 twist rate. (*Though I was only shooting at 100 yards, so I don't know if it would key hole past that.) If I were in the market again for an AR, and could do it again, for the money I think, you're better going with a mid-length cold hammer forged BCM or Daniel Defense gun, but at the time S&W looked really attractive for a complete monotholic-like AR.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd278/WTAForum/IMG_1668.jpg



3. I've never bought from out of state ....how much should I expect the dealer here in Ohio to charge me for the transfer?
Not sure in OH, but around here, anywhere from $25-$50 for FFL transfer, depends on whom - individuals and pawns tend to be the cheapest.