1911 trigger pull weight for a carry gun? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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allen.m
01-26-2011, 14:55
I am in process of getting a special order ed brown 1911. I was talking to some friends, telling them i was going to get the trigger around 3 1/2 to 4 pound trigger. One friend thinks this is unsafe for a carry gun. What are yall's opinions on this? what weight do y'all think is safe? and why would 3 1/2 to 4 be unsafe?

Ascout
01-26-2011, 15:02
I am in process of getting a special order ed brown 1911. I was talking to some friends, telling them i was going to get the trigger around 3 1/2 to 4 pound trigger. One friend thinks this is unsafe for a carry gun. What are yall's opinions on this? what weight do y'all think is safe? and why would 3 1/2 to 4 be unsafe?

I can think of two possible reasons:

1. Low trigger weight when cocked and locked in a high stress situation where you might fire when you didn't intend once safety is released.

2. How this setting might be used against you in court if you ever have to use it in anger.

Quack
01-26-2011, 15:07
Whatever the factory sets or specs the trigger at.
my KC is ~3.5# and my Guardian is 3.75#'s
my EMP is 4#

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
01-26-2011, 15:08
I have two 1911s - my Brown's trigger has an average pull of 3lb 12.6oz, and my custom shop Springfield has an average pull of 4lb 5.6oz.

To me, the Brown feels too light for a carry gun. I'm not comfortable with the trigger. It is awesome for range use, but too light for a carry gun FOR ME (others may disagree).

My Springer feels just right. If I ever order another Brown for carry, I'd try to get it around the weight of the Springfield.

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
01-26-2011, 15:09
I didn't have a Gauge until recently, but my Brown's trigger was actually a little heavier. But I sent the gun in to be re-beadblasted. When I got it back, I noticed that the trigger was a tiny bit lighter than what it was originally.

deputy tom
01-26-2011, 15:17
Most people that I know (me too) have the trigger set to 4-4.5 lbs for a carry gun.YMMV.tom.

Nickpisp
01-26-2011, 15:20
Most people that I know (me too) have the trigger set to 4-4.5 lbs for a carry gun.YMMV.tom.

That's what I prefer also.

allen.m
01-26-2011, 15:35
Ok those are 2 possible reasons. But in a high stress situation i don't think the difference between 3 1/2 and 7 pound trigger is going to make a difference with all the adrenalin pumping one would just have to rely on what training one might have. But i don't know for sure as I have never been in one of those "real life" situations and hope never to be.

As for using a gun in anger, that would never happen with me. I would hope that anyone that has that kind of anger issues would not be carrying a gun although i am sure they're out there.


I can think of two possible reasons:

1. Low trigger weight when cocked and locked in a high stress situation where you might fire when you didn't intend once safety is released.

2. How this setting might be used against you in court if you ever have to use it in anger.

GJ1981
01-26-2011, 15:37
what weight do y'all think is safe?

The firearm is only as safe as the person handling it. There is no magic number, IMO.

For me, my CCW 1911's are around 4-4.5lbs.

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 15:37
Most people that I know (me too) have the trigger set to 4-4.5 lbs for a carry gun.YMMV.tom.

That's what I prefer also.

What they said. :thumbsup:

allen.m
01-26-2011, 15:46
I totally agree just curious as to what others thoughts were.

The firearm is only as safe as the person handling it. There is no magic number, IMO.

For me, my CCW 1911's are around 4-4.5lbs.

nastytrigger
01-26-2011, 16:10
I do like a light trigger, but my carry trigger pulls are no lighter than 4#. I still remember shooting my friends Ruger MkIII pistol. His trigger was a little over two pounds. Just barely put your finger on it and BOOM. The joke was that a breeze would set it off :wow:.

Quack
01-26-2011, 16:13
I do like a light trigger, but my carry trigger pulls are no lighter than 4#. I still remember shooting my friends Ruger MkIII pistol. His trigger was a little over two pounds. Just barely put your finger on it and BOOM. The joke was that a breeze would set it off :wow:.

ask hokie and knedrgr about shooting 2 of my gun's. one with a 2# trigger and the other with a 2.5# trigger. :whistling:

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 16:18
ask hokie and knedrgr about shooting 2 of my gun's. one with a 2# trigger and the other with a 2.5# trigger. :whistling:

Quack's Trophy Match was like BANG BANG when I meant for it to go BANG. :wow:

Quack
01-26-2011, 16:23
and yes, when i sold it, i brought the trigger back up to 4#

nastytrigger
01-26-2011, 16:24
Quack's Trophy Match was like BANG BANG when I meant for it to go BANG. :wow:

Yup. My friend challenged me to a 50yd plate contest with his hair trigger. Ten shots. He was 10 for 10. I think I was 6 for 10. I tried to coach myself: okay, sight alignment, press, BANG. Wait! I wasn't ready to shoot! :steamed:

Ascout
01-26-2011, 16:30
As for using a gun in anger, that would never happen with me. I would hope that anyone that has that kind of anger issues would not be carrying a gun although i am sure they're out there.

"In anger" is an expression for one of serious intent, not an anger management course. It means a situation where you are using a "weapon" for it's intended purpose in a life threatening situation, such as war or self-defense, as opposed to paper-punching bullseyes.

bac1023
01-26-2011, 16:38
About 4lbs or so.

allen.m
01-26-2011, 16:50
I am sorry i thought you meant "anger" an emotion related to one's perception of having been offended or wronged and a tendency to undo that wrong doing by retaliation. I didn't mean to misinterpret you. thanks for clearing that up.


"In anger" is an expression for one of serious intent, not an anger management course. It means a situation where you are using a "weapon" for it's intended purpose in a life threatening situation, such as war or self-defense, as opposed to paper-punching bullseyes.

Ruggles
01-26-2011, 17:06
3.5lbs - 4.5lbs depending on the gun I am carrying. I can not imagine in a court where 1/2 to 1/3 lb difference in trigger pull would matter to a juror. Most people (including me) can not pick up a 1911 and really feel the difference in a 1/2 llb of trigger pull. Certainly not enough to testify in a court of law where that would make a difference in a shooting.

Now going down to some crazy 1.5lb competition trigger pull might not be the best ideal. :tongueout:

Ascout
01-26-2011, 17:15
I am sorry i thought you meant "anger" an emotion related to one's perception of having been offended or wronged and a tendency to undo that wrong doing by retaliation. I didn't mean to misinterpret you. thanks for clearing that up.

I gathered the phrase was one unfamiliar to you. No problem.

CAcop
01-26-2011, 17:19
Quack's Trophy Match was like BANG BANG when I meant for it to go BANG. :wow:

I hav one that is customized and it does that when I am not used to it. The smith who did the work set it at 3.5#.

Colt in the armorer's class I went to set a floor of 4.5#. They taught us how to go lower and someone managed to make one of the class guns down to 1.5# without hammer follow for fun.

Quack
01-26-2011, 17:25
I hav one that is customized and it does that when I am not used to it. The smith who did the work set it at 3.5#.

Colt in the armorer's class I went to set a floor of 4.5#. They taught us how to go lower and someone managed to make one of the class guns down to 1.5# without hammer follow for fun.

it wasn't hammer follow he was getting, it was his trigger control.
If i had to guess Hokie was shooting from reset, and wasn't used to the trigger, so while he was getting ready for his next shot, he'd trip the sear.

Wolfgang
01-26-2011, 17:26
I have a bang bang kimber that was worked on by a well known shop. It's a bit light for me to carry, but ok to target shoot. It's a Kimber SLE so not exactly a target gun, but it's ok for that. It's less than 4 lbs.

I like 4-4.5 better.

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 17:27
it wasn't hammer follow he was getting, it was his trigger control.
If i had to guess Hokie was shooting from reset, and wasn't used to the trigger, so while he was getting ready for his next shot, he'd trip the sear.

I ran what....2 mags through it and double tapped 3 or 4 times? :whistling:

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 17:29
I like Wolfgang's style. :thumbsup:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/image.php?u=2931&dateline=1177091670

Quack
01-26-2011, 17:31
you had more mags (maybe 4) through it, but it was about 3-4 times that it happened.

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 17:32
Since the following must occur, why the issue or concern?

1) The cocked-and-locked 1911 is in a holster until a threat is imminent and the trigger is not available for use.

2) The weapon must be held in a master grip to deactivate the grip safety.

3) The manual safety must be flipped off.

4) The special Glock "Safety is between your ears" must be dis-engaged.

5) The other Glock "Keep your bugger picker off the bang switch" must be dis-engaged.

So it should not matter what the trigger pull weight is.

:couch:



My preference, not that it matters, is to carry only DA/SA pistols with an initial 10# DA pull. :)

Wolfgang
01-26-2011, 17:32
:wow:

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 18:01
I ran what....2 mags through it and double tapped 3 or 4 times? :whistling:

Paul, that's excellent trigger prep! I say that because a similar experience happened to me in one of the first classes that I took years ago with my box-stock 226. It surprised me and I looked at the instructor as if I'd done something wrong. Quite the opposite, he said I was "on it" in terms of prepping the trigger for the next shot. So... I can see how you were easily doubling with Quack's 2# trigger. :)

When I became a 1911 addict a few years ago, I had to learn an entirely new trigger platform with its short reset; and that eventually led me to that same old 226 being morphed into a tricked-out SL equivalent.

What I like about this forum is hearing others' experiences, and seeing how I can relate to their tales, and sometimes offer similar ones. :wavey:

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 18:03
Mrs Hokie was 2K Finance and is head of the NE Ohio Alumni Assoc. We have season tix and drive down from Ohio to the 'Burg every home game.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs268.snc1/9525_1245160091289_1298006842_702986_8132440_n.jpg

Jim S.
01-26-2011, 18:09
I think that a trigger that is crisp and very clean with no noticable overtravel can be heavier than a lighter trigger that is not as crisp and clean and the heavier will feel better.
If it is crisp and clean a 5 lb trigger is not a bad trigger.
Especially on a 1911 since there is such a short amount of movement needed to trip it.
I've had 3 to 3 1/2 pound triggers on 1911's and they were my carry guns.
I now have 1911's with 4 1/2 to 5 pound triggers and they feel good to me too.
I don't think it is necessary to have a trigger under 4 pounds on a carry gun but as long as you keep your finger off of the trigger it should be perfectly safe.
Put your finger on it when you want to shoot and it should be perfectly safe then too.

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 18:13
Since the following must occur, why the issue or concern?

1) The cocked-and-locked 1911 is in a holster until a threat is imminent and the trigger is not available for use.

2) The weapon must be held in a master grip to deactivate the grip safety.

3) The manual safety must be flipped off.

4) The special Glock "Safety is between your ears" must be dis-engaged.

5) The other Glock "Keep your bugger picker off the bang switch" must be dis-engaged.

So it should not matter what the trigger pull weight is.

:couch:



My preference, not that it matters, is to carry only DA/SA pistols with an initial 10# DA pull. :)

I dig my HK for that reason. No external safety and a chambered round, I prefer a heavy (11.5lb) DA pull and then it drops to a smooth (4.5lb) SA for follow-up shots. I personally would not want to carry a Glock with a 5lb pull. I have no problem with the Kobra Carry at 4.5 since I will carry C&L.

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 18:27
I dig my HK for that reason. No external safety and a chambered round, I prefer a heavy (11.5lb) DA pull and then it drops to a smooth (4.5lb) SA for follow-up shots. I personally would not want to carry a Glock with a 5lb pull. I have no problem with the Kobra Carry at 4.5 since I will carry C&L.

:agree: And yeah, my previous five point post was more of a spoof, than a challenge; but I think you knew that. :)

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 18:29
:agree: And yeah, my previous five point post was more of a spoof, than a challenge; but I think you knew that. :)

What Mark, you weren't serious?













:tongueout:

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 18:58
What Mark, you weren't serious?


:tongueout:

I'm always serious when it comes to firearms.
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/AssaultWeapon-1.jpg

Ruggles
01-26-2011, 19:02
Mrs Hokie was 2K Finance and is head of the NE Ohio Alumni Assoc. We have season tix and drive down from Ohio to the 'Burg every home game.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs268.snc1/9525_1245160091289_1298006842_702986_8132440_n.jpg

Mrs Hokie is cute! You guys make a nice looking couple :wavey:

So who is the other cutie in the dress next to Mrs Hokie? :supergrin:

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 19:04
That gun is for pansies. Real men carry this...

http://www.eprodig.com/ventadearmas/images/novedades/50BMG.jpg

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 19:06
Mrs Hokie is cute! You guys make a nice looking couple :wavey:

So who is the other cutie in the dress next to Mrs Hokie? :supergrin:

I actually ran into the pic when some chic was getting her photo taken with Hokiebird. :whistling:

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 19:14
Mrs Hokie is cute! You guys make a nice looking couple :wavey:

So who is the other cutie in the dress next to Mrs Hokie? :supergrin:

She is attractive. I didn't know the Hokies were that close with Quack. :rofl:

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 19:16
She is attractive. I didn't know the Hokies were that close with Quack. :rofl:

That, my friend, would be a turkey.......not a feathered lover of the flat trigger.

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 19:18
That gun is for pansies. Real men carry this...

http://www.eprodig.com/ventadearmas/images/novedades/50BMG.jpg

Ha! That's nuthin'. This is Monkey Boy's prime HD weapon:


http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Happy%20Faces/MonkeyBoy.gif
http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/M4.jpg

Ruggles
01-26-2011, 19:24
That gun is for pansies. Real men carry this...

http://www.eprodig.com/ventadearmas/images/novedades/50BMG.jpg

Maybe in OK that would be manly but in Tejas that would be a nice pocket gun, a derringer of sorts.....for the ladies anyways

This a a typical Tejas carry gun

http://i53.tinypic.com/2412urd.jpg

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 19:29
This is what I keep on the floor of the closet for HD.

http://allpics4u.com/www/slike/bizarre-oddities/weapons/minigun2.jpg

G36_Me
01-26-2011, 19:41
I am in process of getting a special order ed brown 1911. I was talking to some friends, telling them i was going to get the trigger around 3 1/2 to 4 pound trigger. One friend thinks this is unsafe for a carry gun. What are yall's opinions on this? what weight do y'all think is safe? and why would 3 1/2 to 4 be unsafe?

since you don't have a professional opinion or practical opinion or the experience to formulate your own answer (none of this is intended to insult you but something you really need to hear) but you have the money, good taste and brains to buy one of the finest guns made (sorry, I do like your choice) I would ask ed brown for their advice and go with it. On second thought, you really don't even need to ask. the gun will come with an excellent trigger and you will be happy. you can worry about changing the trigger after you have enough experience to value the input you are receiving here. again, you very well may think I'm insulting, but i'm not. print this and read it in a few years and you will find I speak the truth.

Ruggles
01-26-2011, 19:42
This is what I keep on the floor of the closet for HD.

http://allpics4u.com/www/slike/bizarre-oddities/weapons/minigun2.jpg

Nice.

Just like you and the gun you have for home defense in the closet I picked a few of these up last week as HD weapons, for my daughter of course.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2h4gr60.jpg

I prefer these

http://i54.tinypic.com/xgae0i.jpg

Fangface baby!

See this is why we dominate you in football! We have bigger guns :tongueout:

I even wear one of these when I shoot them, except mine says "Dude" instead of "Agent"

http://i53.tinypic.com/2iqlbmr.jpg

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 19:46
This is what I keep on the floor of the closet for HD.

http://allpics4u.com/www/slike/bizarre-oddities/weapons/minigun2.jpg

Now that's some serious hardware.


This was very effective up until having to use government mandated ethanol gasoline.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/FlameThrower.jpg

Ruggles
01-26-2011, 19:50
Now that's some serious hardware.


This was very effective up until having to use government mandated ethanol gasoline.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/FlameThrower.jpg

Yeah we use to use those at Willie Nelson concerts, well some folks use Bic lighters but native Texans used these to light the audience during the slow songs. :supergrin:

PhoneCop
01-26-2011, 19:58
I carry my Kimber Supermatch II with it's 2.5# trigger. Then again I have some 30,000 live fire and maybe three to five times that in dry fire on it.

I carry it because it is what I am most familiar with. I want familiar if things go south.

I'm with this:

The firearm is only as safe as the person handling it. There is no magic number, IMO.

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 20:06
Nice.

Just like you and the gun you have for home defense in the closet I picked a few of these up last week as HD weapons, for my daughter of course.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2h4gr60.jpg






Wow, you guys are tough!

On the 4th of July a few years ago, my proctologist, lit off one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/NUKEFINGER.jpg

Ruggles
01-26-2011, 20:09
Wow, you guys are tough!

On the 4th of July a few years ago, my proctologist, lit off one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/NUKEFINGER.jpg



:rofl:

As long as he is not using that "finger" to do the exam....that might be too tough even for a Texan ! :faint:

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 20:09
Wow, you guys are tough!

On the 4th of July a few years ago, my proctologist, lit off one of these:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/NUKEFINGER.jpg



Wow, that's a b1tch to bend over and *cough*. BOOM.

Cobra64
01-26-2011, 20:13
Yeah we use to use those at Willie Nelson concerts, well some folks use Bic lighters but native Texans used these to light the audience during the slow songs. :supergrin:

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Happy%20Faces/ROTFL110x85.gif



A Bic can't hold a candle to a flame thrower.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/CANDLE.jpg . http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3193/2573152408_454e45a115.jpg

Hokie1911
01-26-2011, 20:22
That's not a flamethrower....
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_oH00ITpsFik/TFwyLz9C8WI/AAAAAAAAAB8/FAIrm0IfGPM/s1600/im_crocodile_dundee_07.jpg

Now THAT is a flamethrower. :supergrin:
http://www.strangemilitary.com/images/content/129041.jpg

txleapd
01-26-2011, 20:32
Something you should consider is that the trigger on a 1911 (or any single action) isn't like other guns. There is no take up or slack. My 1911's are at right around 5 pounds, and they break like glass. IMHO they don't need to be anything less than 4 pounds. YMMV.

knedrgr
01-26-2011, 21:06
For me, a minimum of 4.5lbs to 5lbs on a carry gun. Anything within the factory or greater is good to go.

allen.m
01-26-2011, 23:38
First, i would like to say you have not insulted me in any way. I have talked to the people at ed brown and they said that a 3 1/2 to 4 1/2 pound trigger is good. I have a kobra carry at around 4 1/2 right now. I have shot a couple of Wilson combats (and the like) that have a really crisp 3 1/2 pound trigger and I really like it. I am going with a 3 1/2 pound trigger and was just curious as to what others opinions were. Thanks for your advise. I appreciate your thoughts as i do all others here on this great forum. again just seeing what others thoughts were.

since you don't have a professional opinion or practical opinion or the experience to formulate your own answer (none of this is intended to insult you but something you really need to hear) but you have the money, good taste and brains to buy one of the finest guns made (sorry, I do like your choice) I would ask ed brown for their advice and go with it. On second thought, you really don't even need to ask. the gun will come with an excellent trigger and you will be happy. you can worry about changing the trigger after you have enough experience to value the input you are receiving here. again, you very well may think I'm insulting, but i'm not. print this and read it in a few years and you will find I speak the truth.

tango44
01-27-2011, 08:38
4.5 pounds for me!

wmspdi
01-27-2011, 10:11
In a high stress situation fine muscle control is the first thing to go out the window. Because everything's pumping, an eight pound trigger will feel like nothing. That is why my department mandates 8lb triggers in our duty issued Glock 23s. I did recently receive special permission to carry my SIG 229R with DA pull of 8lbs and SA pull of 5.5 lbs factory (no mods permitted). We are not permitted to carry single action semiautos due the risk of a ND, and liability issues, due to the SA trigger design.

If the concern is civil court liability then the gun's trigger should never be modified from the factory settings. In court an attorney could call a representative from the manufacture to the witness stand and make an issue of a trigger pull that was modified to be lighter after leaving the factory (also known as the "hair trigger" defense. If the manufacter builds that model with a 5 lb trigger pull then leave it alone. If you want a lighter pull for carry (which I don't suggest) buy one that is built that way from the factory.

I know all of the arguments for "the most important safety device is your brain" but attorneys and jurys don't always see it that way. Even if cleared of criminal charges you still have to deal with the civil case. Jurys in civil trials can find for the deceased's family with far less evidence than is required for criminal cases (as in OJ Simpson's murder case).

Do you want to be portrayed to the jury as someone who was so hell bent on taking a life that you had a hair trigger installed on your "killing" gun? Unless you can afford a multi-million dollar wrongfull death settlement for the grieving window/parents of the now deceased scumbag leave the light triggers for the range and shooting match guns.
Leave your carry gun stock and pray you never have to use it. My $.02 worth.

Quack
01-27-2011, 10:18
+1 ^^^

my carry guns have trigger pull weights as they came from the factory. only changes i do are the rear sight and trigger to a flat trigger.

knedrgr
01-27-2011, 10:52
In a high stress situation fine muscle control is the first thing to go out the window. Because everything's pumping, an eight pound trigger will feel like nothing. That is why my department mandates 8lb triggers in our duty issued Glock 23s. I did recently receive special permission to carry my SIG 229R with DA pull of 8lbs and SA pull of 5.5 lbs factory (no mods permitted). We are not permitted to carry single action semiautos due the risk of a ND, and liability issues, due to the SA trigger design.

If the concern is civil court liability then the gun's trigger should never be modified from the factory settings. In court an attorney could call a representative from the manufacture to the witness stand and make an issue of a trigger pull that was modified to be lighter after leaving the factory (also known as the "hair trigger" defense. If the manufacter builds that model with a 5 lb trigger pull then leave it alone. If you want a lighter pull for carry (which I don't suggest) buy one that is built that way from the factory.

I know all of the arguments for "the most important safety device is your brain" but attorneys and jurys don't always see it that way. Even if cleared of criminal charges you still have to deal with the civil case. Jurys in civil trials can find for the deceased's family with far less evidence than is required for criminal cases (as in OJ Simpson's murder case).

Do you want to be portrayed to the jury as someone who was so hell bent on taking a life that you had a hair trigger installed on your "killing" gun? Unless you can afford a multi-million dollar wrongfull death settlement for the grieving window/parents of the now deceased scumbag leave the light triggers for the range and shooting match guns.
Leave your carry gun stock and pray you never have to use it. My $.02 worth.

nicely put!