build or buy? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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cmalone1
01-27-2011, 18:21
So I'm going to finally take the dive and get my first AR! I shot one tonight and that made me decide it HAVE to have one!! But i'm tighter than bark on a tree and wanna get the most for my money...now it's not that I don't want to spend it I know you get what you pay for...BUt with that being said...everyone has told me that if I buy and upper and a lower and piece then together I can save a good amount of dough!! So what I'm asking for is your guys opinions on whether I should do this or not? I have a buddy who's uncle has built many ARs that I'm going to talk to about helping me with it...SO if anybody has any good places to buy uppers and lowers I would appreciate it!!

NeverMore1701
01-27-2011, 18:35
Buy the upper, and if you have the mechanical ability of a retarded monkey, get a stripped lower, assemble it, and slap the two together. Can get exactly what you want, and probably save a bit over an identical rifle fully assembled. Plus, you get a much better idea how the rifle works, which is always a good thing.

kgain673
01-27-2011, 18:40
If it's your first build the lower, I've built three and now I just want to buy a complete lower and not bother with searching for the detents when the fall on the floor. I'm lazy.

NeverMore1701
01-27-2011, 18:42
If it's your first build the lower, I've built three and now I just want to buy a complete lower and not bother with searching for the detents when the fall on the floor. I'm lazy.

Get one of the big ziplock bags (1 or 2 gallon, I forget). Do all the work inside there, and you'll never have to worry about chasing springs or detents :supergrin:

cmalone1
01-27-2011, 19:11
Thanks for the input guys!! I'm definately thinking building is the way to go!!

Halojumper
01-27-2011, 19:55
Get one of the big ziplock bags (1 or 2 gallon, I forget). Do all the work inside there, and you'll never have to worry about chasing springs or detents :supergrin:

I tried that, but I tore it trying to get inside it! :)

cmalone1
01-27-2011, 20:34
Can I build a good gun for 650? ALso what are steel lined uppers going for? I wouldn't mind buying a used lower and putting more money in a new upper...

BBJones
01-27-2011, 20:52
Good gun for what? I don't think I could build a new gun for $650 that I would use as a duty gun. If just for blasting at the range, even $650 is a little low. My advice would be to a get a BCM or DD upper and whatever milspec lower. For about $850 you can get a pretty awesome rifle that will run like a top. Don't skimp on the parts that matter (barrel, bcg, etc.).

I would do some serious research before you run out and buy parts for your build. I also wouldn't rely on a friend or family member who has done it before because who knows how much time they put into research themselves. Assembling the parts is the easy part.

Bushflyr
01-27-2011, 21:06
Can I build a good gun for 650?

No.

ALso what are steel lined uppers going for?

There is no such animal. Go read some more.


I wouldn't mind buying a used lower and putting more money in a new upper...

First smart thing you've said.

cmalone1
01-28-2011, 11:43
I found a Rock RIver lower assembled for 250 and I am about to buy a daniel defense upper with the quad rail and just put them together....

BBJones
01-28-2011, 11:50
Why a huge rush? Relax, breath and go do a ton more research. Make sure you are getting something you really want configuration wise. While I like DD uppers (and almost all of their rails), you may end up finding they are not for you.

Just curious, which upper are you looking at?

jrs93accord
01-28-2011, 12:04
Can I build a good gun for 650? ALso what are steel lined uppers going for? I wouldn't mind buying a used lower and putting more money in a new upper...

It is possible if you shop wisely, you can build one between $650 - $700. I recently built this DS Arms ZM4 for about $700. The barrel is not chrome-lined. It is not a big issue with me since I clean my weapons promptly after use.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/006-2.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/005-4.jpg

You can get into a Del-Ton build for about the same money.

m2hmghb
01-28-2011, 12:48
It is possible if you shop wisely, you can build one between $650 - $700. I recently built this DS Arms ZM4 for about $700. The barrel is not chrome-lined. It is not a big issue with me since I clean my weapons promptly after use.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/006-2.jpg

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea_08/jamesrea09/jamesrea10/005-4.jpg

You can get into a Del-Ton build for about the same money.


You can get a del-ton kit with a chrome lined 1-7 for 530 and a lower for another 100 or less. Whatever you decide good luck with it.

brickboy240
01-28-2011, 13:21
Isn't this the "9mm vs 45" question of the AR world?

Here is what I have found.

For about 650 bucks, I can buy an already built rifle that is not a Colt or LMT, but far from crap.

The first is a CMMG Bargain Bin rifle. I saw one that came in to a local gun store for transfer and was shocked. The thing looked no different than most brand new ARs. A total steal. Slap a cheap red dot or Magpul rear on it and you're shooting.

The second is the wide array of nearly new Bushmasters I see, being sold on Gunbroker and other sites in the 650 dollar range. I have seen many lightly used Bushy Patrolman's Carbines with a "buy it now" price of 650 dollars lately. Most of these rifles were probably bought during the 08 Obama gun craze and the owners now need cash.

I also put pencil to paper and added up getting all the parts on my own and included shipping charges and tax, if I bought them locally. Most of my estimates came in at less than 100 bucks from the 650 dollars wanted for the CMMG or used Bushy ARs that were already put together.

So its your call, but with rifles like these two out there in the 650 range...its hard to put together a decent AR for less money.

This is what I found...YMMV.

- brickboy240

cmalone1
01-28-2011, 17:47
Why a huge rush? Relax, breath and go do a ton more research. Make sure you are getting something you really want configuration wise. While I like DD uppers (and almost all of their rails), you may end up finding they are not for you.

Just curious, which upper are you looking at?
It's the 16" m4 profile with the carbine gas system, flat top with 12" quad rails with low pro gas block(I don't want the front sight i wanna use magpul flip ups), 1 in 7" twist, it's an amazing upper for the price...I'm not in a huge rush just throwing around some ideas...and i've heard great reviews on them and love their rails as well...

BBJones
01-28-2011, 18:20
It's the 16" m4 profile with the carbine gas system, flat top with 12" quad rails with low pro gas block(I don't want the front sight i wanna use magpul flip ups), 1 in 7" twist, it's an amazing upper for the price...I'm not in a huge rush just throwing around some ideas...and i've heard great reviews on them and love their rails as well...


Nice thinking. I would suggest you look into a mid-length gas system. Offer plenty of advantages over a m4 gas system for a 16" (softer shooting, less wear on parts, not as much gas, etc.). As for barrel profile it is up to you. I like LW profiles for weight saving but gov't profile is good too. You can't go wrong with DD. It will be quality.

Since you mentioned it I like Magpul backup sights as backups not primary sights. They are not horrible and if you plan on adding a red dot or optics later you can start with them no problem. As stand alone sights there are better flip up options (Troy IMO) but typically cost more.

good luck

cmalone1
01-28-2011, 18:50
Nice thinking. I would suggest you look into a mid-length gas system. Offer plenty of advantages over a m4 gas system for a 16" (softer shooting, less wear on parts, not as much gas, etc.). As for barrel profile it is up to you. I like LW profiles for weight saving but gov't profile is good too. You can't go wrong with DD. It will be quality.

Since you mentioned it I like Magpul backup sights as backups not primary sights. They are not horrible and if you plan on adding a red dot or optics later you can start with them no problem. As stand alone sights there are better flip up options (Troy IMO) but typically cost more.

good luck
I'm gonna put the mid length gas system on it, I have heard great things about it...I'm thinking about keeping the m4 profile just for the bigger profile...the only onther profile I might like would be the gov't...

And on the magpuls they will be backups...I'm gonna run a red dot on as the primary...

Frog1
01-29-2011, 05:04
If want accuracy, build it right yourself. Del Ton non chromed lined barrels are Mossberg. They are tack driving barrels. Better than most of the match grade barrels I have seen. My $600 20 inch gun will shoot with all the high end guns. Better than most. The carbines are almost as accurate.

Tactical Solutions has the best deal on these wonderful barrels. Use a BCM upper with a DSA lower. Perfect match. Use a CMT bolt carrier and bolt. Put a BCM extractor kit in for reliability. Free float. Yankee Hill or even UTG works really well. Don't worry about the Mil Spec noise on the internet. This will serve you well.

Frog1
01-29-2011, 05:14
Tactical Innovations not Solution has these barrels on sale now. Read the review for the 20". I get the same results with cheap Privi ammo 62 grain off the shelf.

arclight610
01-29-2011, 07:22
Last night I just built a pretty cheap (and lightweight upper).

Carbon fiber upper receiver - $85
ER Shaw 16" lightweight w/ barrel nut- $145
MOE Carbine Handguards - $28
Delta ring assembly - $12
A2 FH and crush washer - $8
DPMS Gas tube - $14
DPMS charging handle - $14
Front sight, detent, spring - $2
Tube of moly grease - $2
Snap ring pliers - $10
Barrel nut wrench - $20

I plan on putting it on a Plum Crazy lower that should be coming in today or tomorrow

PC lower - $145
Colt BCG - $95


Total - whatever sights or optics you put on it = around $600

It should weigh around 4.8-5.0 lbs

boomhower
01-29-2011, 07:23
If you want cheap, take $810 and get a Spike midlength. If you want the most rifle for your money that's it, end of discussion. I don't own one and never will but your getting damn near Colt quality for DPMS money. For the price range it's a no brainer.

Another option is a BCM blem lower for $270, 16" midlength upper plus BCG/CH for $520, add in MOE rear site and handguards would put you in the same ballpark.

For barrel profiles, don't leave out lightweight. Unless you are going full auto runs or mag dumps your not going lose anything. I have one LW and standard, the LW goes with me and the standard stays at the house.

poodleshooter1
01-29-2011, 13:00
tagged..............

screaminbeagle
01-29-2011, 14:38
If it's your first build the lower, I've built three and now I just want to buy a complete lower and not bother with searching for the detents when the fall on the floor. I'm lazy.
a razor blade wit electrica tape on one side keeps detent in ..tape keeps razor from slipping....i never buy an ar....buiding is too easy.....no vise needed..

mvician
01-29-2011, 16:16
....i never buy an ar....buiding is too easy.....no vise needed..


How do you get the proper amount of torque on the barrel nut without a vise?
Or time the FH when using a crush washer?

screaminbeagle
01-29-2011, 18:34
How do you get the proper amount of torque on the barrel nut without a vise?
Or time the FH when using a crush washer?
topless box [2x}with no front,liquid nail & straps.......liquid nail inside of box bottom{2-3 inches} saran wrap over it...sit upper on saran wrap..depress gently.. let dry..do reverse on top.[fill box in wit liquid nail]put top on.let dry again..strap & screw to a log & tighten away......the idea is to encase the receiver in liquid nail & strap it to a log...cost is about $10.00
sorry my eyboard is broe...im sic of copy & paste...pita....

mvician
01-29-2011, 20:08
How do you get the proper amount of torque on the barrel nut without a vise?
Or time the FH when using a crush washer?

topless box [2x}with no front,liquid nail & straps.......liquid nail inside of box bottom{2-3 inches} saran wrap over it...sit upper on saran wrap..depress gently.. let dry..do reverse on top.[fill box in wit liquid nail]put top on.let dry again..strap & screw to a log & tighten away......the idea is to encase the receiver in liquid nail & strap it to a log...cost is about $10.00
sorry my eyboard is broe...im sic of copy & paste...pita....



priceless...........:faint:

screaminbeagle
01-29-2011, 20:14
priceless...........:faint:
yea,i know......a vise & block is way more preferable.....