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NHmike
01-27-2011, 19:21
So I have a Reddot on my AR-15 which I like. But it limits me to more close range shooting. I was looking into their magnifiers but boy are they expensive.
I see much cheaper models out there but am afraid that they are just that, cheap.

So I am looking for a magnifier that is high in quality but will not bust my bank account. (if one exists) Or should I just suck it up and buy the magnifier from Aimpoint? Does anyone have a side by side comparison of the cheapo's vs. the Aimpoint?

Any feedback would be great! Thanks!

BBJones
01-27-2011, 21:03
A 2MOA or 4MOA dot should be good to 300 yards. How far do you plan to shoot?

NHmike
01-27-2011, 21:10
Honestly, I am all over paper at close ranges but dead on nuts with it scoped. I tend to shoot rifles well normally.

I just want to be consistant with kill shots on Coyotes and such.

Bushflyr
01-27-2011, 21:13
Learn to shoot. You're focusing on the target. Focus on the front sight. And don't blink. Really.

MrMurphy
01-28-2011, 00:31
In the case of the Aimpoint, DON'T focus on the front sight, focus on the dot. :)

NHmike
01-28-2011, 00:32
Learn to shoot. You're focusing on the target. Focus on the front sight. And don't blink. Really.

I usually shoot very well as i said. Rifles either scoped or not I shoot well.

I will keep practicing with it, maybe I am missing something, I just thought maybe a magnifier would help me out some.

Alaskapopo
01-28-2011, 01:13
A 2MOA or 4MOA dot should be good to 300 yards. How far do you plan to shoot?

Yes and no. A full sized (man size target or 10 inch steel )sure. But if you need to make shots an smaller targets like head shots or mini poppers then 300 yards is not going to happen with a RDS sight at least not with regularity. A friend of mine learned this the hard way at a three gun match last summer with his Aimpoint going against mini poppers at 180 yards.
Pat

ScrappyDoo
01-28-2011, 14:05
I am very interested in the deal with Aimpoint magnifier vs the , say Primary Arms, magnifiers , like premium 3x and also 5x ... I have read the PA flip to side mount is not that good bit no info on the magnifiers. I just got my Micro R1 on my Daniel Defense Tall lower 1/3 mount and a magnifier of similar quality and value is now needez

mjkeat
01-28-2011, 15:56
In the case of the Aimpoint, DON'T focus on the front sight, focus on the dot. :)

Do you focus on the dot or the target? Usually when shooting both eyes open I focus on the target.

Bushflyr
01-28-2011, 16:24
An Aimpoint allows you to get away with looking at the target at closer ranges and still make hits. For longer range or for maximum precision the proper technique is to focus on the dot.

NHmike
01-28-2011, 20:00
ok guys thanks. I will do what is advised and see if that helps. When I get better with it then I will re-examine my needs from the RDS. I have taken a couple of seasons off to let the Coyotes forget about me and I wanna go back at em and do some Coyote gettin!

ScrappyDoo
01-29-2011, 10:10
So to go back to the original question, can anyone chime in with info and experience on the use of magnifiers with the Aimpoints? As I said, I was readin that the less priced Primary Arms flip-to-side mount wasn't very good but the Magnifiers were okay.. I am wondering how the Deluxe 3x is and also the 5x (It seems like the 5x is not "deluxe?" anyone get that opinion from it?) and also how the real deal Aimpoint Magnifier is for a whopping 500 more like $600 bucks, plus at least what like $125-$150 maybe more for a LaRue tactical magnifier.. seems like a lot but if it was really that awesome, maybe.... but I don't know much at all about them.


Now if it was $500 for an actual Aimpoint magnifier, and it included a LaRue (or even a good but not the best brand, say Daniel Defense? ) mount, and it was 5x (but would consider 3x of course) all deal together for $500, i might think about it. but right now I'm thinking Primary Arms, and Possibly a more expensive flip mount.

MrMurphy
01-29-2011, 10:20
Magnifiers are a half-assed scope. They do allow rapid engagement out to 300-400 yards but they won't make you a sniper, they just make it a little easier to see. If you're a crappy shot without it, adding 3X won't help much.

In the optics world, again, you get what you pay for. The Aimpoint 3X has excellent glass. The no-longer-available LaRue Po'Boy which cost about half as much also had excellent glass, since it was a surplus Hensoldt antitank sight with the reticle removed. Anything less, well, you'll get exactly what you paid for. I've never used the PA model, but the Aimpoints have allowed rapid target hits out to about 350 for me day and night (using a PVS-27/Aimpoint/Magnifier lineup).

If you really know what you're doing, engaging a man size target at 300 with irons is easy enough. An Aimpoint isn't particularly any harder, though dot size at 300 makes it a little tricker. A magnifier will help a little, but not drastically. Don't look for a hardware solution to a software problem.

MARSH1
01-29-2011, 19:57
I am very interested in the deal with Aimpoint magnifier vs the , say Primary Arms, magnifiers , like premium 3x and also 5x ... I have read the PA flip to side mount is not that good bit no info on the magnifiers. I just got my Micro R1 on my Daniel Defense Tall lower 1/3 mount and a magnifier of similar quality and value is now needez

Our latest generation FTS is rock solid. We also have the American Defense mounts. The Aimpoint 3X gives a little more eye relief and will handle more shock. Our Deluxe 3X has the internal adjustmenst to perfectly center the dot like the Aimpoint. Light transmission is better with the Aimpoint, that will only show up in very low light situations. The internal adjustment is what makes the Deluxe Deluxe. With the standard magnifiers proper alignment between the optic and magnifier is more critical.

As MrMurphy says magnifiers make lousy scopes so even the Aimpoint is not going to give you scope clarity. We sell plenty of high end glass but you won't see a big difference like you would from a $199 scope to a $2,000 scope. We sell plenty or ours with Aimpoints and EOTechs. We have the Aimpoint 3X, EOTech 3X and Vortex 3X as well. Ours is a good inexpensive way to test the platform.

The Aimpoint is way more rugged and I aways recommend a Aimpoint or EOTech optic for home defense but when it comes to a magnifier not to many 250+ yard home defense shots.

Marshall

ScrappyDoo
01-29-2011, 21:03
MrMurphy thank you for responding. just a notice: it seems like maybe you let us know that you were an (elite if not the most elite, at least you've hinted to that before) operator but then kind of get offended for some n00b like me for not being one. [and maybe slightly having desire to be equipped like one if nothing else. But i mean, it is a gun website with the #1 thing this is about is purchasing guns [and therefore gun gear]) I know I'm not a green beret etc. but I don't see what the problem with trying to have some nice equipment is. Am I doing tactical training and IA Drills and constant practice no, of course not, but I don't see the problem of having some good to nice to good/nice-Plus gear... and yeah I understand buying my AR rifle, my new Aimpoint, and adding an Aimpoint magnifier will not make me an operator, make me skilled, or make me a good shot. I get that. I will never think that. But if I don't have the equipment to do it, I'll *never* make the shots, and the subject and practical application interests me, so I need the equipment to do it (or at the very least I want it and that's good enough for me).

I will say this. I'm a pretty damn good fisher. In Jersey we're lucky because we get raised on little streams and creeks and ponds and lakes, which used to be plentiful, and progress to the good and hard stuff, and we have beaches for surf fishing, and inlets etc. and the ocean for fishing off friends boats and taking party boats/Head boats and then when you're good enough or man enough, you go from simple Fluke trips in warm weather and hot sun to night 12 hour bluefish trips and cold weather/winter deep sea bottom fishing 16 hour trips 80 miles out after work and having to work the day after, etc. :) Here's my point: some of my buddies that I became friends with after I got back to Jersey from college, are excellent fisherman. I mean real good, like some of the best I've seen. My one best friend is outstanding and his brother, basically could be a "professional" fisherman if it was the type of thing to make a great steady living, it's just hard to be a professional fisherman here and pull 75k and benefits for the wife and daughter ,etc. They schooled me rough and it wasn't fun at first, but I got better a few years worth and then I got pretty good. They would always win the pool on fluke trips, bluefish trips, fill their bags on trout opening day before anyone, catch the biggest, but I started catching up. Then they handed down some gear to me, and I started improving , catching the biggest out of the group of us, catciing the most, etc. So I burned a tax return in like Feb 08 on new gear, and I outfitted myself with a bunch of St Croix rods and reels, and got one say $600 St Croix deep-sea boat rod, and a 400 reel. (expensive expensive stuff here, i mean if it's a $1000 setup this has gotta be like having THE BEST AR-15 rifle and an ACOG on top, etc.). I had some awesome stuff, a nice nice little freshwater setup, a nice nice versatile ocean setup, something else that escapes me, and my $1,000 boat rod. The first trip out I won the pool , and not only did I catch the Biggggest bluefish that niht, I caught the most, and the most biggest, etc. I dominated. And I started killing the fluke trips with my spinning saltwater combo. And then even killing bass days on lakes and the such. Even started Volunterring for the extremely cold bottom fishing trips in the winter instead of getting bamboozled into going. -- here's my point: Changing to better gear really made a difference. Now of course I'm not saying, give someone the good stuff and they get good, nor give em the great they become great, and honest sometimes there's no correlation between that stuff cause fishing really is a lot of luck.

But for me, for example, I'm not making certain shots without a magnifier. And 300yd iron sight shots are not at all that easy for me. for you, probably can snap-shoot them from muscle memory. And sure, adding the best magnifier in the best flip-to-side-mount is not going to have me running through a house clearing bad guys rat-tat-tat then flipping the magnifier on and picking off marauders in the neighborhood at 3x while the insolently do their marauding at the neighbors down the street/across the hood/etc. of course not. But without my Aimpoint, I'm probably not going to even attempt any CQB. Without the Magnifier, I'm not going to even try to take a precise shot at any distance. Again, I'm no operator and I'll probably never need to do any of that stuff, less SHTF / Zombies, Etc.


Mr Marshall cool you can help me. I have the Aimpoint Micro and it's in a Daniel Defense "tall" mount offering the lower 1/3 cowit. So whats the best PA Magnifier and mount? I guess the 3x Deluxe, and what mount do I want? When I click the 3x deluxe it allows me to choose a discounted PA Mount but I'm not sure about the two choices.

Bushflyr
01-29-2011, 22:37
Woah, bro. Ease off the purple juice before you post. Attempting to make sense of that rant made my head hurt. If you're going to post something like that at least try to be somewhat coherent. :D

MrMurphy
01-30-2011, 00:13
I wasn't anything particularly special. But post-doing-it-for-a-living I sold optics and hardware, and a lot of people try to substitute technology for skill. Nothing wrong with the best toys (i spend a lot of cash on my gear, even though in the last couple years due to finances I have very little range time), just remember that practice more than hardware is what will end up getting it done.

Some of the most lethal people in the world i know could wipe the floor with most other people using a stock M16A2. With a fully tricked out M4, they're just "more" lethal.

I continually emphasize good equipment and spending what you have to because too many fall into the "my frankengun and Maglite ziptied to the handguard is just as good" thing.

Use the best you can get. Having had to use a stock M16 and an angle-head flashlight for room clearing, as well as a fully tricked out, white light and NVG and IR laser equipped M4 with an M203 attached, I know which I choose. :) But the point is, run what you brung, and train hard. You can do very good work indoors with irons and a white light. Won't be quite as quick as a dot scope, but it's doable. Dots and distant targets generally don't agree, a magnifier will help some, but as I've said, don't expect it to magic wand an instant hit.

The old saying about beware the guy with one gun, because he knows how to use it, falls under many categories and things. My grandfather-in-law is tactical nothing, but probably one of the more dangerous men with a rifle and a single round that I know, because he hunted growing up in the Depression and one round was all he had per animal. I hold no one accountable for service or lack of it, it's an individual choice, but just try not to be an Arfcommer and try to convince yourself a cheapo Chinese knockoff will survive hard use vs any serious equipment from a name brand manufacturer.

If you buy good gear and practice, you can do as well as anyone and nobody can say otherwise. If you're new to this i would recommend MagPul's art of the rifle videos, Kyle Lamb's Green Eyes Black Rifles book and Mike Pannone's M4/M16 Handbook. You'll learn more from them than anyone here.

As to being special......i was USAF Security Forces, doing force protection on high value targets. Between grenadier, machine gunner and patrol/fireteam leader at times I controlled anywhere from 1 to 40 other guys (in the really deep, deep Oh &#&(! situations during exercises where the sadistic exercise-throwers decided to kill off my entire chain of command above me......). Generally no more than four other guys. As far as military pedigree goes, nothing particularly special, but in the back of my mind, EVERY choice on parts and equipment is made with the thought "would i carry this on duty and trust my life to it?". I may only shoot at the range or in the hunting field these days but my equipment is still selected as if I was up for another deployment and I advise people accordingly unless they're purely talking about game/competition guns.

wellcraft
01-30-2011, 07:36
i was considering buying a magnifyer to go along with my eotech until i saw the 500 dollar price tag. forget that....i just can't see paying as much for a magnifyer as you pay for the site itself. i don't need anything that's rugged enough for combat operations in afghanistan just something that will hold up at the range and only costs around a 150 bucks.