AR rifles ammo sensitive? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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zukyota
01-28-2011, 07:30
Tried to use search but for some reason it doesnt work on my droid phone. My question is this, is it hard/ expensive to find & shoot good reliable ammo in 1/7 twist barrels? Im looking at buying a good AR, probably BCM, but was reading cmmg website & they say certain ammo will void their warranty. Not looking to get flamed here, just trying to get the best most reliable way to plink & defend the home. Thanks.

fuzzy03cls
01-28-2011, 07:47
All brass ammo should run reliable.
The ammo you are hearing about is steel case ammo. Like Wolf/tula, Brown bear/silver bear
If your AR is decent it should run the bear ammo fine. Wolf ammo is very inconsistent. Some AR's eat it all day long, Some only sometimes & some choke on it.
Your going to have to try it & see with steel case.
My AR's run everything fine.
It's also recommended to shoot a few hundred rounds of brass ammo 1st before trying steel case.

uzimon
01-28-2011, 07:50
my colt 6920 worked even with the low powered zinc russian hollowpoint

NailShooter
01-28-2011, 08:09
All brass ammo should run reliable....

I have seen some AR's short stroke on 223 and run 100% on 556, both being brass cased. Just sayin'. Regards,

Nail

Hedo1
01-28-2011, 08:37
Most will run on anything but like any rifle will show a preference accuracy wise. A 1 in 7 shoots very well with a heavier bullet in general. 62 or 69 for most shooting. Heavier 75 or 77 gr for longer range.

zukyota
01-28-2011, 09:25
Any probs with pmc brass ammo ?

fuzzy03cls
01-28-2011, 10:34
Nope. Runs for pretty much everyone. Accuracy isn't great though.

zukyota
01-28-2011, 10:42
Nope. Runs for pretty much everyone. Accuracy isn't great though.
What have you found that is the best for both ?

XDMerciless
01-28-2011, 10:56
Tried to use search but for some reason it doesnt work on my droid phone. My question is this, is it hard/ expensive to find & shoot good reliable ammo in 1/7 twist barrels? Im looking at buying a good AR, probably BCM, but was reading cmmg website & they say certain ammo will void their warranty. Not looking to get flamed here, just trying to get the best most reliable way to plink & defend the home. Thanks.

Assuming everything on the gun is good to go, staked gas block, gas key, extractor, buffer spring, good magazines, etc, and you have problems with ammo - you can play with the buffer weights from an carbine to H3. For underpowered stuff steel stuff Wolf/Brown Bear I'll use a carbine weight, for 5.56 (XM193 or surplus), I'll swap to the H buffer. But I have yet to experience a problem when using a carbine buffer on 5.56 loads, though I am using a Young's NM BCG, that is somewhat heavier than the OEM BCGs so you may or may not have problem - go shoot and see. It is also documented that if you switch from steel to brass in your shooting session, you could experience a "sticky chamber", as there is a variance in steels expansion compared to brass against the chamber walls, and thus over time with shooting steel the carbon will build up, increasing the tolerance of the chamber walls and therefore can induce a possible malfunction when switching to brass casings.

Check it out here:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu18.htm

Gunnut 45/454
01-28-2011, 11:09
I have run only brass through mine- a carbine and a rifle. PMC, AE, Fed and alot of XM193 and of course reloads. Both guns have worked perfectly. I found the PMC to be weak and not accurate, great brass for reloads! The steel cased ammo might be cheap but they are dirty and cause the feed problems you see and hear about! Some AR's run fine with them others not so much!:whistling:

boomhower
01-28-2011, 12:34
Some rifles shoot steel fine and other have issues, really no way to know other than try it out. Even between the same model from the same manufacturer. One will run fine and the other will choke on it. My DD eats Tula fine.

ScrappyDoo
01-28-2011, 13:58
I have a brand new Bushmaster that I have began stocking the 3.59 Cheap Russian stuff. For every person claiming Bushmaster is so Terrible of a rifle you must feed it PDX-1 5.56 or it will self distruct and or self-immolate, ive read 5 owners refute that. Mine is pretty damn right on , do I sometimes wish I had bought a Colt and or BCM ? Yeah I guess so , for Bragging factor , BUSHMASTER is supposed to be extremely rifle ammo sensitive and I ain't seen it yet

mjkeat
01-28-2011, 15:50
I have a brand new Bushmaster that I have began stocking the 3.59 Cheap Russian stuff. For every person claiming Bushmaster is so Terrible of a rifle you must feed it PDX-1 5.56 or it will self distruct and or self-immolate, ive read 5 owners refute that. Mine is pretty damn right on , do I sometimes wish I had bought a Colt and or BCM ? Yeah I guess so , for Bragging factor , BUSHMASTER is supposed to be extremely rifle ammo sensitive and I ain't seen it yet

Buying a Colt or BCM has nothing to do w/ bragging factor. As far as BCM goes its about getting top of the line features as standard and for the price of many rifles that you can only get these features as options.

A lot of times changeing out buffers and/or springs will correct cycle issues w/ Russian ammo.

ScrappyDoo
01-28-2011, 16:13
Buying a Colt or BCM has nothing to do w/ bragging factor. As far as BCM goes its about getting top of the line features as standard and for the price of many rifles that you can only get these features as options.

A lot of times changeing out buffers and/or springs will correct cycle issues w/ Russian ammo.

Ok let me rephrase it, the only reason I would have rather have had a Colt or BCM over the Bushmaster I bought would be for bragging factor, better now that I semantically corrected that ? And the few hundred dollars I saved on my Bushmaster allowed me to purchase a absolute complete Magpul setup for it: MOE Hand-guard and MVG Vertical Grip, Rear MBUS Sight, MOE Pistol Grip, MOE Trigger Guard, CTR Stock, (Purchased separate PMAGS cause I need 15-rounders ) and even the MS2 Stock. So I am actually probably more happy with my now Magpul/Bushmaster in OD Green than I would have been with a basic Colt Match Target 6400C . Also I had a little bit of money saved after purchasing all my Magpul stuff because not only did I get the Bushmaster on deal I got all the Magpul on excellent sales, then I LUCKED Into that Aimpoint Micro R-1 $299 sale. So to be complete, I honestly am very happy with that setup. Now if I had a Colt or BCM, honestly, the only thing I'd like about it more is the name. I will never have a situation where I need the "betterness" in that. But hey, sometimes I wish it had that name on the receiver.

mjkeat
01-28-2011, 16:39
Ok let me rephrase it, the only reason I would have rather have had a Colt or BCM over the Bushmaster I bought would be for bragging factor, better now that I semantically corrected that ? And the few hundred dollars I saved on my Bushmaster allowed me to purchase a absolute complete Magpul setup for it: MOE Hand-guard and MVG Vertical Grip, Rear MBUS Sight, MOE Pistol Grip, MOE Trigger Guard, CTR Stock, (Purchased separate PMAGS cause I need 15-rounders ) and even the MS2 Stock. So I am actually probably more happy with my now Magpul/Bushmaster in OD Green than I would have been with a basic Colt Match Target 6400C . Also I had a little bit of money saved after purchasing all my Magpul stuff because not only did I get the Bushmaster on deal I got all the Magpul on excellent sales, then I LUCKED Into that Aimpoint Micro R-1 $299 sale. So to be complete, I honestly am very happy with that setup. Now if I had a Colt or BCM, honestly, the only thing I'd like about it more is the name. I will never have a situation where I need the "betterness" in that. But hey, sometimes I wish it had that name on the receiver.

Bushmaster seems to suit your type just fine.

ScrappyDoo
01-28-2011, 16:45
Hahaha ok man. Thanks. Stay safe.

mjkeat
01-28-2011, 17:20
Hahaha ok man. Thanks. Stay safe.

After reading my prior statement I appologize. I didnt mean it on a personal level. What I should have said was, Bushmaster seems to suit that way of thinking.

SGT HATRED
01-28-2011, 17:28
I always thought bushmaster was good quality... Am I wrong to think that?

mjkeat
01-28-2011, 19:07
I always thought bushmaster was good quality... Am I wrong to think that?

Well they are known for not producing the best quality. They are hit and miss with their specs (chambers and such) and have horrible customer service.

faawrenchbndr
01-28-2011, 19:17
I always thought bushmaster was good quality... Am I wrong to think that?

I believe they have went a bit down hill the last few years.

SGT HATRED
01-28-2011, 20:44
Hmm news to me... I have had mine for a couple years now with no problems what so ever. Though I have not delt with their customer service. I must have lucked out with a good 1.

ScrappyDoo
01-28-2011, 22:06
It seems like Bushmaster owners luck out with good ones but people who have other brands and also espeically more expensive/higher chart rated brands, their Bushmasters have problems. Or they Heard they had problems, something like that. People said so. Etc.

Alaskapopo
01-29-2011, 00:46
Tried to use search but for some reason it doesnt work on my droid phone. My question is this, is it hard/ expensive to find & shoot good reliable ammo in 1/7 twist barrels? Im looking at buying a good AR, probably BCM, but was reading cmmg website & they say certain ammo will void their warranty. Not looking to get flamed here, just trying to get the best most reliable way to plink & defend the home. Thanks.

For home defense I recommend 75 grain Hornady Tap. For plinking just about any american maker of 55 grain ball will do with a brass case.
Pat

Alaskapopo
01-29-2011, 00:47
I always thought bushmaster was good quality... Am I wrong to think that?

They are middle tier guns. Not the worst but certainly not high quality.
Pat

TheBelly
01-29-2011, 02:48
I bought my BM XM-15 in 2005. First 1,000 rounds were all brass cased, then started shooting steel cased due to budget issues (I was in college). After about 750-800 rounds of that I got a fail to extract. I thought, "Oh, that was weird." Next round was also a FTE. CRAP! I took it apart lubed it up a bit and then had no problems for the rest of that thousand.

Then I actually looked at the extractor. It was ummm well worn. It got replaced with a brownell's one that had one of those o-rings around the spring.

Now the only thing I shoot out of it is Hornady 55gr lacquer-covered steel case. After 500 rounds of that, no problems. I have a 1:9 twist barrel, so the heaviest grain bullet I shoot is 62 grains or so.

I haven't had any problems with the practical accuracy with either my BM or ammo. I've shot some Black Hills match ammo, the 62 gr. from above, to the cheapest stuff I can find.

Hopefully this helps the OP.

boomhower
01-29-2011, 07:25
Big issue with Bushmaster is staking. It's a small task and needed for a reliable rifle. Since that's to much trouble for them I don't trust them.

SGT HATRED
01-29-2011, 07:53
Staking?

TheBelly
01-29-2011, 08:40
Staking?

staking is the process used to keep things like the bolt carrier key screws from coming loose. The metal is literally pushed over on top of the screws so that they can't come loose.

There are other parts that should be staked, and more in depth research will help you under stand better.

Boomhower: I don't have a picture on hand, but the carrier keys on my bolt carrier group are staked. I remember very clearly that they are, but I don't actively remember how well. I bought my rifle when I didn't know too much about them. It looked cool and it was the right price. If I knew then what I know now, I woulda bought something that has all those little things already done, I wouldn't have bought a BM.

Novocaine
01-29-2011, 12:22
My BM is '93. Everything is staked. The thing is nearly indestructible.

AR is a gas-operated self-loader. Of course it's sensitive to ammo, namely to the pressure curves created by the different powders: US military found out the hard way back in 60-ies. These days unless you reload you don't need to be concerned. Exceptions do happen like Prvi Partizan pre-'06 ammo loaded with a flaky powder (reportedly single base).

As far as accuracy I have two 1/7 rifles (CMMG and Noveske), both are pathetic with budget 55 grain loads. Still more than enough at HD distances, though.

Steel cases are fine. I don't shoot many but my CMMG worked great with heavier grain Russian Wolf, both in accuracy and reliability departments.

Hedo1
01-29-2011, 12:46
Black Hills blue box is economical and accurate. It comes in a variety of loads. The Red Box is more expensive and not reloaded. Shoots the same as Blue Box imo.

fuzzy03cls
01-29-2011, 17:35
It seems like Bushmaster owners luck out with good ones but people who have other brands and also espeically more expensive/higher chart rated brands, their Bushmasters have problems. Or they Heard they had problems, something like that. People said so. Etc.
My bushmaster 20" has ran fine. On all ammo. I have BCM, Spikes, & LMT too.

SGT HATRED
01-29-2011, 18:00
So where should I look to know if my bushmaster is staked properly? And what should it look like?

mjkeat
01-29-2011, 18:38
So where should I look to know if my bushmaster is staked properly? And what should it look like?

theres a really nice thread on this. Let me find it and Ill post it here.

ScrappyDoo
01-29-2011, 18:43
Sarge check this link out:

http://www.ar15barrels.com/tech/gas-key-stake.jpg

Now my brand new Bushmaster , I specifically had the gunsmith take a look. It's on the bolt carrier I believe , I mean I am not sure the proper term of the part , but you remove your Bolt Carrier Group and look at the two screws. Now according to both my gunsmith (who is like a former Army Ranger and professional soldier i.e. mercenary i.e. Private Security Contractor, spent 3 times in Afghanistan and once in Iraq, and he's also a career LEO (now retired after 20 cop years) and been a gunsmith ( and an infantryman) his whole life) he says Bushmaster has the rep for "non properly staked gas key" ... it IS Acceptable. It's not the best. It's never been apparently still isn't, he says mine is 'barely combat acceptable BUT combat acceptable' ... and he actually took out his Colt M16A1 and showed me that one. That's why I used the picture I found of a Colt.

So I hear a lot of Bushmaster knocks that it's not "properly staked" and it makes me thing, maybe it should be "not as staked?" because "Properly" suggests not done right and my reading seems to suggest Bushmaster does it not as good but good enough i guess? Again never a problem on mine.

Now I see someone on here and many other forums selling chromed Rock River Arms BCGs. I am probably going to buy one of those, and will probably run that one. I will also probably pick up some Bravo Company (that extractor or ejector or spring something?) and swap them etc. Why not? I was going to buy some spares etc. It's clear those are better from everyone saying so, and then I'll have better parts running now (I.e. that chromed RRA BCG and BCM extractor spring) and I'll have Brand New factory Bushmaster backups. That is not a bad thing to have in event of a failure, right? To me it's good.

mjkeat
01-29-2011, 18:47
http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?81462-So-you-want-to-buy-an-AR-15-huh

TheBelly
01-29-2011, 21:41
Sarge check this link out:

http://www.ar15barrels.com/tech/gas-key-stake.jpg

Now my brand new Bushmaster , I specifically had the gunsmith take a look. It's on the bolt carrier I believe , I mean I am not sure the proper term of the part , but you remove your Bolt Carrier Group and look at the two screws. Now according to both my gunsmith (who is like a former Army Ranger and professional soldier i.e. mercenary i.e. Private Security Contractor, spent 3 times in Afghanistan and once in Iraq, and he's also a career LEO (now retired after 20 cop years) and been a gunsmith ( and an infantryman) his whole life) he says Bushmaster has the rep for "non properly staked gas key" ... it IS Acceptable. It's not the best. It's never been apparently still isn't, he says mine is 'barely combat acceptable BUT combat acceptable' ... and he actually took out his Colt M16A1 and showed me that one. That's why I used the picture I found of a Colt.

So I hear a lot of Bushmaster knocks that it's not "properly staked" and it makes me thing, maybe it should be "not as staked?" because "Properly" suggests not done right and my reading seems to suggest Bushmaster does it not as good but good enough i guess? Again never a problem on mine.

Now I see someone on here and many other forums selling chromed Rock River Arms BCGs. I am probably going to buy one of those, and will probably run that one. I will also probably pick up some Bravo Company (that extractor or ejector or spring something?) and swap them etc. Why not? I was going to buy some spares etc. It's clear those are better from everyone saying so, and then I'll have better parts running now (I.e. that chromed RRA BCG and BCM extractor spring) and I'll have Brand New factory Bushmaster backups. That is not a bad thing to have in event of a failure, right? To me it's good.

it's better to do the research and get the right part the first time, whatever the right part for your use will be.

Alaskapopo
01-29-2011, 22:17
Sarge check this link out:

http://www.ar15barrels.com/tech/gas-key-stake.jpg

Now my brand new Bushmaster , I specifically had the gunsmith take a look. It's on the bolt carrier I believe , I mean I am not sure the proper term of the part , but you remove your Bolt Carrier Group and look at the two screws. Now according to both my gunsmith (who is like a former Army Ranger and professional soldier i.e. mercenary i.e. Private Security Contractor, spent 3 times in Afghanistan and once in Iraq, and he's also a career LEO (now retired after 20 cop years) and been a gunsmith ( and an infantryman) his whole life) he says Bushmaster has the rep for "non properly staked gas key" ... it IS Acceptable. It's not the best. It's never been apparently still isn't, he says mine is 'barely combat acceptable BUT combat acceptable' ... and he actually took out his Colt M16A1 and showed me that one. That's why I used the picture I found of a Colt.

So I hear a lot of Bushmaster knocks that it's not "properly staked" and it makes me thing, maybe it should be "not as staked?" because "Properly" suggests not done right and my reading seems to suggest Bushmaster does it not as good but good enough i guess? Again never a problem on mine.

Now I see someone on here and many other forums selling chromed Rock River Arms BCGs. I am probably going to buy one of those, and will probably run that one. I will also probably pick up some Bravo Company (that extractor or ejector or spring something?) and swap them etc. Why not? I was going to buy some spares etc. It's clear those are better from everyone saying so, and then I'll have better parts running now (I.e. that chromed RRA BCG and BCM extractor spring) and I'll have Brand New factory Bushmaster backups. That is not a bad thing to have in event of a failure, right? To me it's good.
Bushmasters are not staked properly but most middle tier guns are not either and its easy to fix. I have a staking tool that I have used to stake many of a friends gun.
Frankly I prefer Stags for middle Tier guns as they are priced right and generally have equal or better quality compared to their piers. (RRA, Bushmaster)

1811guy
01-30-2011, 07:12
All of my AR's will feed anything I put through them; steel/brass cased, .223/5.56, heavy/light grain, underpowered ammo.

The only problem I ever had was with a 14.5" midlength from CCMG (perm FH). It would not feed some weak Centurion .223 I bought. The Centurion ammo chronographed at 2,600 fps. Pretty weak stuff, even for .223 (which should only be 100 - 150 fps slower than 5.56 anyway). I am certain that it was just undergassed. Not feeling like screwing with the gasport, I sold that barrel off and went with a 16". If I ever go shorter I will just do an SBR.

So to answer the OP, certain AR's may be sensitive to certain types of ammo, but in general, an AR should feed anything you run in it.

Captains1911
01-30-2011, 09:03
All 3 of my ARs with 1/7 barrels (2 BCMs and 1 Colt) run flawlessly with everything I have fed them from 55gr up to 77gr, .223 and 5.56, all brass cased.

However, the barrel twist rate should have no affect on the guns reliability, only on the ballistics.

Frog1
01-30-2011, 18:09
The best cheap ammo I have found that runs well in both 1/7 and 1/9 is Privi. The 62 grain is good. The 69 and 75 grain match is excellant for the money. The Black Hills runs the best, but it is expensive. The Hornady Tap is very good, but expensive. If you don't reload, try the Privi.

mstennes
02-01-2011, 15:28
They are middle tier guns. Not the worst but certainly not high quality.
Pat
On a good day:whistling:

toshbar
02-01-2011, 19:32
my Bushy 1:9 will do 1-1.5 MOA with Tula Steel cased 62gr HP, and cycle reliably.

SGT HATRED
02-02-2011, 22:04
That link has a lot of great info

Anonimo
02-02-2011, 22:12
I have a Daniel Defense DDM4. It seems to have a few double feeds w/ Tula, so I run PMC or BVAC though it. It loves both brass brands. The PMC chronos very consistent as well.(3000fps 16inch barrel)

Anonimo
02-02-2011, 22:12
Big issue with Bushmaster is staking. It's a small task and needed for a reliable rifle. Since that's to much trouble for them I don't trust them.


I've had 2 of them, both of them were staked fine. If you buy one, just check it first.