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Panzergrenadier1979
01-30-2011, 05:08
***** I believe that this is more of an LE question then a Navy questions which is why I'm posting on Cop Talk *****

My PD is conducting an investigation of an individual regarding financial fraud. He also claims to have served in the early 90s as a US Navy SEAL team member. I believe he is lying. (gasp!)

As part of the investigation we'd like to check this out to make sure that he's not profited from this in any way.

I've heard that there is a group of former SEALs that will verify a person's past membership. I've found several on-line but I'm wondering if anyone on CT has ever used such a group before?

Thanks.

Patchman
01-30-2011, 05:57
You have a delicious and challenging inquiry ahead of you. In getting to your answer, you'll probably end up with a couple of nice contacts.

Good luck.

mpow66m
01-30-2011, 06:06
go to special ops.com theyll do it.:steamed:

Bill Lumberg
01-30-2011, 07:14
Does the Navy call a DD214 long a DD214 long?

***** I believe that this is more of an LE question then a Navy questions which is why I'm posting on Cop Talk *****

My PD is conducting an investigation of an individual regarding financial fraud. He also claims to have served in the early 90s as a US Navy SEAL team member. I believe he is lying. (gasp!)

As part of the investigation we'd like to check this out to make sure that he's not profited from this in any way.

I've heard that there is a group of former SEALs that will verify a person's past membership. I've found several on-line but I'm wondering if anyone on CT has ever used such a group before?

Thanks.

isp2605
01-30-2011, 08:55
Here you go...
http://www.socnet.com/
About 1/3 way down the page.
These guys have the list. If he was a SEAL he'll be on their list.
Make sure you read their sticky first before posting. If you don't follow their rules you won't get an answer.

A6Gator
01-30-2011, 08:57
***** I believe that this is more of an LE question then a Navy questions which is why I'm posting on Cop Talk *****

My PD is conducting an investigation of an individual regarding financial fraud. He also claims to have served in the early 90s as a US Navy SEAL team member. I believe he is lying. (gasp!)

As part of the investigation we'd like to check this out to make sure that he's not profited from this in any way.

I've heard that there is a group of former SEALs that will verify a person's past membership. I've found several on-line but I'm wondering if anyone on CT has ever used such a group before?

Thanks.

Ask him what class he was in.

Dukeboy01
01-30-2011, 09:32
If he claims to be a SEAL and brings it up multiple times, even when you aren't asking about it, then there is a 90%+ chance that he is not. Real special ops folks don't have to brag about it, in my experience. Mopes being brought in for questioning, especially on fraud, always claim to have been something special hoping to get a pass.

It's funny how every dirtbag I interview who claims that he was in the military did something reallly cool like be a SEAL or fly fighter planes. Nobody ever tells me that he fixed Humvees, dug latrines, or worked in the mess hall. Weird how "an army marches on it's stomach," yet everybody I meet who claims to have been in the military was Rambo. Who's peeling the potatos?

AngryBassets
01-30-2011, 09:58
Legitimate SpecOps guys really enjoy being made aware of people like this guy.

CAcop
01-30-2011, 10:54
If the above doesn't work about 10 years ago there were a couple of places on the net that did this. IIRC they were authetiSEAL and veriSEAL

Peace Frog
01-30-2011, 11:02
Or FOIA request his DD214 ...

Wil Ufgood
01-30-2011, 11:05
If you're conducting a criminal investigation I would contact NCIS, they are quite helpful:wavey:

Cav
01-30-2011, 11:31
DD214. Granted they might be missing things, but overall tell a good story.

Bill Lumberg
01-30-2011, 11:58
They may have some things redacted, but nothing important in a situation like this. An MOS is an MOS. Seen a busload of folks like about what they did, what schools they'd been to , where they'd served, and said, oh- they must have left that off my DD214. It doesn't work like that. If you're lying, even about smaller stuff, it's obvious.

DD214. Granted they might be missing things, but overall tell a good story.

Kahr_Glockman
01-30-2011, 12:22
professionalsoldier.com was just recently featured here blasting that piece of crap that claimed the movie Taken was about him.

That maybe one of the most epic threads ever.

SAR
01-30-2011, 13:09
If you exhaust your options and you have a *serious* need to know, PM me. Asking a suspect his BUD/S Class, swim buddy, Phase, "sugar cookie," and "grinder" questions serve well to out a SEAL in a bar, but it won't hold up in court, and you don't want to put in your police report that you asked him what a "sugar cookie" was and he didn't know. There is a database that lists students who have graduated BUD/S and their class numbers.

AngryBassets
01-30-2011, 13:40
professionalsoldier.com was just recently featured here blasting that piece of crap that claimed the movie Taken was about him.

That maybe one of the most epic threads ever.

Link?

EOD3
01-30-2011, 14:06
DD214. Granted they might be missing things, but overall tell a good story.

Yeah but everybody knows they don't put the "uber-secret", behind enemy lines, black on black, super-SEAL qualifications and assignments on the DD214...

Ask him where the USS Neversail is docked and what the name of the "SEAL hangout is". OPSEC prevents unencrypted transmission... :rofl: :dunno:

EOD3
01-30-2011, 14:08
Link?

You're a Detective, right? :whistling:

Just asking...

Kahr_Glockman
01-30-2011, 14:09
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1282860

This is the thread that linked to PS.com thread.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30904

This is the actual thread.

EOD3
01-30-2011, 14:48
http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1282860

This is the thread that linked to PS.com thread.

http://www.professionalsoldiers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=30904

This is the actual thread.

Unless you're a registered "SF" member, you will not be able to post in that thread. Go down to the General forum to post. Read the "rules", they can get a little pissy sometimes.

SAR
01-30-2011, 14:52
Yeah but everybody knows they don't put the "uber-secret", behind enemy lines, black on black, super-SEAL qualifications and assignments on the DD214...

Ask him where the USS Neversail is docked and what the name of the "SEAL hangout is". OPSEC prevents unencrypted transmission... :rofl: :dunno:

Some SWOs go straight from Great Lakes to INDOC these days and may never have been on "Neversail." But don't mess with Danny's or McP's...:whistling:

Kahr_Glockman
01-30-2011, 14:55
Dude, I dont post there or desire to post there. I just read. I am reposting the links from a thread from several months ago to show the complete ownage of a *********.

Rohniss
01-30-2011, 16:00
That was pretty freaking epic.

jokon
01-30-2011, 20:08
If he claims to be a SEAL and brings it up multiple times, even when you aren't asking about it, then there is a 90%+ chance that he is not. Real special ops folks don't have to brag about it, in my experience. Mopes being brought in for questioning, especially on fraud, always claim to have been something special hoping to get a pass.

It's funny how every dirtbag I interview who claims that he was in the military did something reallly cool like be a SEAL or fly fighter planes. Nobody ever tells me that he fixed Humvees, dug latrines, or worked in the mess hall. Weird how "an army marches on it's stomach," yet everybody I meet who claims to have been in the military was Rambo. Who's peeling the potatos?
I was an artist with neverdull and a foxtail.

Cav
01-30-2011, 20:20
They may have some things redacted, but nothing important in a situation like this. An MOS is an MOS. Seen a busload of folks like about what they did, what schools they'd been to , where they'd served, and said, oh- they must have left that off my DD214. It doesn't work like that. If you're lying, even about smaller stuff, it's obvious.

Only reason I bring that up is I got out in 2001. I was set to get out in 1999 and at the 30 day window did 2 more years. My files were sent away (to St Louis IIRC). In 2001 my DD214 had only what I brought and listed as I got out, and only one of my MOS's was listed. Then with the Guard I did more time and got a few more DD214's.

Now some stuff is on one but not the other's. Also circa 2005 they stopped putting old schools on the DD214 and only do new schools since the last DD214. The design changed as did what was reported for schools.

I aslo do not have listed some things like the Korean Defense medal, Presidential citations, and other things that were awarded but I never got a true award for it (One of my Bronze Stars was an award cert with no award paperwork, but it is in my states file and even without paperwork was put on my DD214 based on computer files.

Medical and award stuff is better today than it was 20 years ago. Things like BUD/SEAL training and school should be documented on a DD214 if they passed. I have one paper from when I tried out for Delt, making the course and getting selected are very different. Also a SFAS cert is not saying youre Special Forces, just that you passed the course. Just things to keep in mind.

merlynusn
01-31-2011, 06:46
I'd second just calling NCIS. Especially if you're near a Navy base. But they'll be able to find out pretty quickly.

Panzergrenadier1979
01-31-2011, 08:49
Here you go...
http://www.socnet.com/
About 1/3 way down the page.
These guys have the list. If he was a SEAL he'll be on their list.
Make sure you read their sticky first before posting. If you don't follow their rules you won't get an answer.
I might do this route just to get a quick answer Ė someplace to start. I donít know if I want to post his name and DOB on an on-line forum though.
I'd second just calling NCIS. Especially if you're near a Navy base. But they'll be able to find out pretty quickly.
My municipality is near two naval installations, as a matter of fact. I will make some inquiries starting there. Obviously I would prefer an official US government document or statement to put in my report.

Will a DD214 list a SEAL qualification specifically or would it just address a sailorís primary MOS? Would it also reflect if a sailor did in fact attend BUD/S but did not complete the program?

My guy claims to have attended his A-school for heavy equipment operator and from there he attended BUD/S.

CGMK
01-31-2011, 10:18
Will a DD214 list a SEAL qualification specifically or would it just address a sailorís primary MOS? Would it also reflect if a sailor did in fact attend BUD/S but did not complete the program?

My guy claims to have attended his A-school for heavy equipment operator and from there he attended BUD/S.

My DD214 listed all vocational schools [including duration in weeks/days], awards, and rating [MOS] information.

The claim of attending an A-school prior to BUD/S is very believable. Non-Rates [E2/3], Petty Officers [E4/5/6], Chiefs[E6/7/8], Commissioned Officers, and even Coast Guard members can attend BUD/S.

txinvestigator
01-31-2011, 11:54
Ask him what class he was in.

He answers "237". Whaddya do then? Some of these questions might be good for a REAL SEAL to ask a potential poser, but how does that help Joe Citizen?

Delon
01-31-2011, 12:33
I thought discovery made a video of class 237 as they went through BUD/s, after some research is was class 234.

My bad

merlynusn
02-01-2011, 07:40
My municipality is near two naval installations, as a matter of fact. I will make some inquiries starting there. Obviously I would prefer an official US government document or statement to put in my report.

Will a DD214 list a SEAL qualification specifically or would it just address a sailorís primary MOS? Would it also reflect if a sailor did in fact attend BUD/S but did not complete the program?

My guy claims to have attended his A-school for heavy equipment operator and from there he attended BUD/S.

Yes, NCIS could put something official if you wanted it. A DD214 will list all MOSes obtained. It should list schools, though it might not if you didn't complete it. Again, NCIS will give you the best information, make it official, and you'll get a great contact for future cases.

A6Gator
02-02-2011, 07:23
He answers "237". Whaddya do then? Some of these questions might be good for a REAL SEAL to ask a potential poser, but how does that help Joe Citizen?

If he tells you 237, but he was in the Teams in the early 90's he's yankin' ya.

The easiest way is probably: http://www.veriseal.org/

NCIS could do it with a phone call to Coronado.

steveksux
02-02-2011, 08:14
If he turns out to be lying.....

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0a3b3PGbzCw/TIT4nCE-xTI/AAAAAAAAADg/y11f54RM1Hk/s1600/Baby%2Bseal.jpg

Randy

txinvestigator
02-02-2011, 10:06
If he tells you 237, but he was in the Teams in the early 90's he's yankin' ya. My point; how would I know?

I always see suggestions to ask questions like the class he was in, instructor's name, color of the boathouse, etc., but unless I know the answer to those questions, asking the poser is not very useful to me. ;)

Gos
02-02-2011, 10:28
My point; how would I know?

I always see suggestions to ask questions like the class he was in, instructor's name, color of the boathouse, etc., but unless I know the answer to those questions, asking the poser is not very useful to me. ;)

Ask for a copy of his discharge papers then work your way backwards.

We had a former SEAL in our department. Very unpretentious and articulate gentleman, never got rattled in a fight and was fun to watch. He just made CT look sooooo easy....

txinvestigator
02-02-2011, 14:08
Ask for a copy of his discharge papers then work your way backwards. If I was an employer (especially LEO) verfying would be easy. I was just curious from a civilian POV. ;)

EOD3
02-04-2011, 19:02
I guess you could always call him a lying SOB! If he slinks away, you were right. But, if he stomps a mud-hole in your *****, you'll know you were wrong. :rofl:

PBR Sailor
05-06-2011, 06:21
My point; how would I know?

I always see suggestions to ask questions like the class he was in, instructor's name, color of the boathouse, etc., but unless I know the answer to those questions, asking the poser is not very useful to me. ;)

I'll bet this clown doesn't have any scars, doesn't limp and can stand upright.

Ask him where he went to Boot Camp.
Ask him his primary US Navy NEC (Naval Enlisted Code).
Ask where he attended BUD/S.
Ask him to see his Budweiser (S.E.A.L. insignia).
Ask him which Team he was assigned to and his primary and secondary jobs.
Ask him where he was stationed and the name of the bar the S.E.A.L.s drank in.

You have to have prior service US Navy personnel in your agency or an agency nearby who can guide you to someone who knows the answers to these questions. I would interview other people who know the guy, because he sounds like a braggard and would have told alot of people alot of wild stories.


A records search through St. Louis can sometimes be fruitless. I contacted them when I separated in 1985 to get a copy of my military records to start the ball rolling with the Veteran's Administration and they told me my records were burned up in "the fire." They had a fire a few years before I even went to Boot Camp and they like to use that excuse when the bureaucrats are busy sitting on their fat duffs drinking coffee and don't want to exert any effort.

This is typical of alot of people who want to pretend to be something or someone they were not. I use to run into this type at bars, which is why I stopped going out "Steaming" with my buddies. If half of the phonies did half of what they told us they did, they would have been KIA two or three times.

EOD3 has it right. If the guy was a frog, he would be more than a little hostile if you challenged him.


Good luck with this.

Mark 1 Mod 0 Sailor.

ancient_serpent
05-06-2011, 06:55
If he claims to be a SEAL and brings it up multiple times, even when you aren't asking about it, then there is a 90%+ chance that he is not. Real special ops folks don't have to brag about it, in my experience.


As fond as folks are of saying this, it's not always so.

Running joke round these parts: "How do you know if there is a SEAL in the room? Give 'em five minutes, they'll tell you."

All in good humor of course, nothing but love for all of our military.

tpr7304
05-08-2011, 11:07
I have used www.veriseal.org in the past with good results.

Chuck54
05-08-2011, 18:59
ancient-serpent



I have found this to be not true...........I have friends that are SF and SEAL.




Your good humor is not funny

txleapd
05-08-2011, 19:26
My DD214 listed all vocational schools [including duration in weeks/days], awards, and rating [MOS] information.

In theory, but not always in practice. There were a couple of schools that were missed on my DD214. I have certificates, and even pictures taken during one, but never got documented on my DD214.

CU4X4N
05-08-2011, 23:55
But don't mess with Danny's or McP's...:whistling:

/threadjack on


Not a LEO and definitely not a SEAL, but I loved me some Irish Dip and a Harp from McP's when visiting my cousin, who was stationed on Coronado.


/threadjack off

MadMonkey
05-09-2011, 00:20
Nobody ever tells me that he fixed Humvees, dug latrines, or worked in the mess hall.

My dad was in Vietnam as an MP. He told me the worst he was ever injured was falling into a maintenance pit while he was running across the motor pool in the dark :rofl:

blueiron
05-09-2011, 02:31
For workups, contact the Naval Criminal Investigative Service. You may need a formal request letter and state that it is for investigative purposes.

If you need it quickly [a pending search warrant or the like], contact the local FBI Field Division. An intelligence analyst can access it pretty quickly.

An NLETS message to either making the request can sometimes obviate the inertia.

RedTape
05-09-2011, 03:29
+1 blueiron

Just send a teletype.

FiremanMike
05-09-2011, 07:07
Original post was several months ago.. Can we get an update on this case?

ancient_serpent
05-09-2011, 10:38
deleted

EOD3
05-09-2011, 10:43
In theory, but not always in practice. There were a couple of schools that were missed on my DD214. I have certificates, and even pictures taken during one, but never got documented on my DD214.

Sometimes the only difference between a "school" listed on your DD214 and a "learning environment" is a three letter acronym "TDY". :cool:

RussP
05-09-2011, 11:20
Sometimes the only difference between a "school" listed on your DD214 and a "learning environment" is a three letter acronym "TDY". :cool:Now that's the truth!!

use2b6L32
05-10-2011, 23:09
Ask the guy what he did. If he tells you he was a SEAL, he probably wasn't. If he tells you he was a rodeo clown (or something similar) he probably was.

MarcDW
05-11-2011, 03:58
People like this make you mad.
However, I am not sure if you can do legally a lot about it.
As long he does not wear a uniform with his claim, it is not criminal.