The Anti-Cop trend that isn't [Archive] - Glock Talk

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JSandi
01-31-2011, 12:24
Between January 20 and January 25, 13 police officers were shot in the U.S., five of them fatally. Two officers in St. Petersburg, Florida, were killed*while trying to arrest a suspect accused of aggravated battery. Two more were killed*in Miami while trying to arrest a suspected murderer. An*officer in Oregon was seriously wounded*and another in Indiana was killed after they were shot*during routine traffic stops. The Indiana assailant had a long and violent criminal record. The suspect in Oregon is still at large. In another incident, four officers were injured in Detroit when a man about to be charged in a murder investigation walked into a police station and opened fire.

Some police advocates have drawn unsupported conclusions from this rash of attacks, claiming*that they are tied to rising anti-police sentiment, anti-government protest, or a lack of adequate gun control laws. Media outlets also have been quick to draw connections between these unrelated shootings. While these incidents are tragic, the ensuing alarmism threatens to stifle much-needed debate about police tactics, police misconduct, and police accountability.

Jon Shane, a professor*at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, told NPR the January shootings "follow some bit of a larger trend in the United States," which he described as an "overriding sense of entitlement and 'don't tread on me.'" Craig W. Floyd, chairman of the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, told UPI, "It's a very troubling trend where officers are being put at greater risk than ever before." The same article summarized the opinions of other police leaders who think the shootings "reflected a broader lack of respect for authority."

Richard Roberts, spokesman for the International Union of Police Associations, told MSNBC, "It's not a fluke….There's a perception among officers in the field that there's a war on cops going on." Police critic William Grigg notes that Smith County, Texas, Sheriff J.B. Smith told the NBC station in Tyler, "I think it's a hundred times more likely today that an officer will be assaulted compared to twenty, thirty years ago. It has become one of the most hazardous jobs in the United States, undoubtedly—in the top five."

During his interview with Shane, NPR host Michael Martin linked*the shootings to the availability of guns. Salon's Amy Steinberg concluded "there is a disturbing trend and an increasingly pressing need to revisit the conversation on gun control."

Dig into most of these articles, however, and you will find there is no real evidence of an increase in anti-police violence, let alone one that can be traced to anti-police rhetoric, gun sales, disrespect for authority, or "don't tread on me" sentiment. (CNN is one of the few media outlets that have covered the purported anti-police trend with appropriate skepticism.) Amid all the quotes from concerned law enforcement officials in MSNBC's "War on Cops"*article, for example, is a casual mention that police fatality statistics for this month are about the same as they were in January 2010. Right after suggesting to NPR that the recent attacks were related to anti-government rhetoric, Shane acknowledged there has been little research into the underlying causes of police shootings.

In truth, on-the-job police fatalities have dropped nearly 50 percent during the last 20 years, even as the total number of cops has doubled. According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 279 cops were killed on the job in 1974, the worst year on record. That number steadily decreased to just 116 in 2009. The leading cause of death for cops on duty is*car accidents, not violence. For the last several years, the number of officers intentionally killed on the job each year has ranged from 45 to 60, out of about 850,000 cops on the beat. That makes police officers about 50 percent more likely to be intentionally killed than the average American. But contrary to Sheriff Smith's claim, the job isn't among the 10 most dangerous*in the country, let alone the "the top five," even if you include officers unintentionally killed in traffic accidents.

As for guns, Salon's Steinberg strangely came to her conclusion about "the pressing need to revisit the conversation on gun control" just a few paragraphs after she noted that gun sales have risen dramatically during the same 20-year period when police officer fatalities have plummeted. Last year there was an increase in officers intentionally killed on the job, from 41 to 58, which Steinberg characterizes this way: "In 2010 policemen killed on the job rose by nearly 40 percent, the greatest increase since 1974." That's true. But isn't it more significant that these numbers have dropped to the point where 17 additional deaths now represents an increase of 40 percent? In any event, 2010 also saw the smallest increase in gun sales in six years.

None of this is meant to denigrate the heroism of police officers who confront and apprehend dangerous people, and we certainly should honor and remember those who are injured or killed while doing so. But seizing on an anomalous series of terrible shootings as evidence of a nonexistent anti-police trend skews the debate on issues such as aggressive police tactics, police militarization, the use of Tasers, searches and pat-downs, and police transparency and accountability. Officer safety is important, but it should not come at the expense of the safety and civil liberties of the people they are sworn to protect.


http://reason.com/archives/2011/01/31/the-anti-cop-trend-that-isnt

Patchman
01-31-2011, 13:49
None of this is meant to denigrate the heroism of police officers who confront and apprehend dangerous people, and we certainly should honor and remember those who are injured or killed while doing so. But seizing on an anomalous series of terrible shootings as evidence of a nonexistent anti-police trend skews the debate on issues such as aggressive police tactics, police militarization, the use of Tasers, searches and pat-downs, and police transparency and accountability. Officer safety is important, but it should not come at the expense of the safety and civil liberties of the people they are sworn to protect.

I this this paragraph (the last paragraph of the essay) pretty much reveals the writer's anti-LE slant.

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 13:53
What absolute crap.

ETA:

As for the commentary, I think I know where a lot of GnGers get their talking points from now.

SKSman57
01-31-2011, 14:25
This pathetic humanist libertine piece of filth has openly cheered for cop-killers in the past. His opinions are less than worthless.

BTW: Overriding sense of entitlement and disrespect of authority are absolutely involved in this increasing problem.

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 14:53
This pathetic humanist libertine piece of filth has openly cheered for cop-killers in the past. His opinions are less than worthless.

BTW: Overriding sense of entitlement and disrespect of authority are absolutely involved in this increasing problem.

Who the OP, or the Author?

Kadetklapp
01-31-2011, 15:10
Garbage.

JSandi
01-31-2011, 15:10
This pathetic humanist libertine piece of filth has openly cheered for cop-killers in the past. His opinions are less than worthless.

BTW: Overriding sense of entitlement and disrespect of authority are absolutely involved in this increasing problem.

What about a public perception that there is an overriding sense of entitlement among cops and a demand for citizen respect and unquestionable submission to authority?

:whistling:

JSandi
01-31-2011, 15:11
Who the OP, or the Author?

Radley Balko of Reason Magazine.

JSandi
01-31-2011, 15:15
This pathetic humanist libertine piece of filth has openly cheered for cop-killers in the past. His opinions are less than worthless.

Well I didn't expect him to be on anyones Christmas Card list here, considered that most of y'all are slightly right of the Kaiser when it come to law and order issues...

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 15:16
What about a public perception that there is an overriding sense of entitlement among cops and a demand for citizen respect and unquestionable submission to authority?

:whistling:

That's not a public perception, that's the perception of a bunch of Anarchist-lites, calling themselves Libertarians, who think they are somehow smarter than everyone else and have an grossly overinflated sense of self-worth.

In short, &*$% 'em.

mrsurfboard
01-31-2011, 15:19
There is definitely anti cop sediment out there. The #1 source, our politicians. We are portrayed as pigs feeding at the trough of tax dollars. We are vilified for having the audacity of wanting to collect a pension they we have paid into without fail, while here in NJ, the politicians have skipped years of their contribution to balance their budgets and buy votes. How can you expect the public to respect us, when our leaders are bashing us on a daily basis.

tortoise
01-31-2011, 15:23
12345

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 15:29
Still need to ask? :rofl:

And the Ignore list grows by one. :wavey:

No I'm good, I'm one of those twisted **** that likes to argue with people on the internet.

:rofl:

Didn't this forum use to have a "Troll Patrol"? I seem to remember one when I was lurking without a handle.

PinkoCommie
01-31-2011, 15:43
...most of y'all are slightly right of the Kaiser when it come to law and order issues...

You'd be surprised. I grew up behind the Iron Curtain. That experience instilled in me a healthy defiant streak. I fully understand the irony behind someone with my world view becoming a cop. I avoid political debates on CT and in other cop forums (internet or meat-space) because my political views are quite different from the majority of cops I know. I am very skeptical when it comes to government use of power. Because I am a cop, it means that I am very judicial in when I decide to press an issue, simply because I think that the government sticks its ugly nose in too many areas where it doesn't belong.

HOWEVER, I am a cop. I am paid to enforce the law. That sometimes puts me in risky situations that arise out of concepts I may or may not wholly agree with. I do it because law makers (whom I may also agree or disagree with) enacted laws, and the people have entrusted me with making sure that if someone breaks one of those, that person will get an appointment with a judge, who will examine the incident in some detail. I am not an ordinance whore, and I do not write every equipment violation I see or stop. I try not to lose sight of the fact that I am a citizen as well as a cop, and I try to treat people as I would like to be treated (as a citizen, not a cop).

The other side of the coin is that, like any other citizen, I expect to go home at the end of my shift and spend quality time with my wife and kids. Because the citizens have put me in a role where, on their behalf, I take certain kinds of risks, I expect that they will allow me to take certain actions to minimize those risks. No, I DEMAND that they allow me to do that. I think I am reasonable in what I ask. Just because I am a cop does not mean I want to live in a police state. Been there, done that. It sucked. I do what I do with great respect for the law and people's rights. I will also do what I need to do to ensure that others respect my rights, including the right to go home in one piece.

SKSman57
01-31-2011, 16:00
Who the OP, or the Author?The Author, with his veneration of cop-killer Ryan Frederick. He's in the same mold as Vin Suprynowicz who wrote "The Ballad of Carl Drega".

I don't know what it is about these libertines and their craziness, but as a poster here pointed out, an over-inflated sense of self-worth is definitely among the possibilities.

SKSman57
01-31-2011, 16:01
What about a public perception that there is an overriding sense of entitlement among cops and a demand for citizen respect and unquestionable submission to authority?

Holy Strawman Batman!

CAcop
01-31-2011, 16:20
Well I didn't expect him to be on anyones Christmas Card list here, considered that most of y'all are slightly right of the Kaiser when it come to law and order issues...

Nice broad brush. I'm actually more of a libertarian. Respect the rights of others and you won't have a problem with me.

JSandi
01-31-2011, 16:26
Holy Strawman Batman!

Damn!

There is intelligent life in here! :faint:

tortoise
01-31-2011, 16:30
12345

TBO
01-31-2011, 16:36
Why don't you research the assault rate. :cool:

4949shooter
01-31-2011, 16:58
The only reason less police officers are killed today rather than 30 plus years ago is due to improved training, tactics, and equipment. If you ask me to cite my source I will tell you same is derived from 22 years of personal experience and research.

What is your beef JSandi? Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 17:03
The only reason less police officers are killed today rather than 30 plus years ago is due to improved training, tactics, and equipment. If you ask me to cite my source I will tell you same is derived from 22 years of personal experience and research.

What is your beef JSandi? Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

Well all that combined with improved and quicker emergency medical assistance...

Like TBO said, add murder and assault rates together, then compare. Because in the past a lot of today's assaults would become murders in the past.

RussP
01-31-2011, 17:03
Well I didn't expect him to be on anyones Christmas Card list here, considered that most of y'all are slightly right of the Kaiser when it come to law and order issues...Are you a sworn LEO?

JSandi
01-31-2011, 17:08
Are you a sworn LEO?

Si...

Patchman
01-31-2011, 17:10
I was wondering how long before the jsandi worm turned. It turned sooner than I thought.

JSandi
01-31-2011, 17:10
What is your beef JSandi? Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

Patchman
01-31-2011, 17:11
Si...

Bs...

JSandi
01-31-2011, 17:14
Bs...

Right!

Cuz no cop would ever disagree with or question a fellow cop or cops opinion...

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 17:15
Is this the part where people start asking for everyone's ORI?

ETA:

Or scans...

JSandi
01-31-2011, 17:16
You know... I think the owners here have the name of this particular form all wrong.

It should be changed to "Cop Worship" instead of "Cop Talk"...

Cuz its clear that all any of you guys want to hear is praise, worship and positive reinforcement from your peers. And when someone, anyone comes here and does not tow the party lien they are immediately case aside as a heretic or troll.

GackMan
01-31-2011, 17:18
To the OP - That's an interesting article and could be worth discussion...

How about you post the article as quoted text and put the link at the top so we know that you're not the author and maybe include some of your own thoughts / comment so you're not just spamming cop-talk with whatever article you stumle across?

Unless you're just a troll looking to stir the pot.

4949shooter
01-31-2011, 17:21
Well all that combined with improved and quicker emergency medical assistance...

Like TBO said, add murder and assault rates together, then compare. Because in the past a lot of today's assaults would become murders in the past.

Agreed...

4949shooter
01-31-2011, 17:22
I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

JSandi, you didn't answer my question.

JSandi
01-31-2011, 17:25
JSandi, you didn't answer my question.

Yes I did, "I have no beef"... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

Patchman
01-31-2011, 17:39
Earlier this afternoon I checked the FBI's 2000 thru 2009 LEOKA stats. Except for 2009, the trend since 2000 is that the number of assaults on LEOs have increased. They were pretty much in the 57,000 - 61,000 assaults/year range. Given the LEO population was about 500,000 LEOS, that's slightly over 10-percent of all LEOS are assaulted each year.

See here for stats: http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2009/data/table_70.html

jsandi, have you ever discusses this with anyone?

TBO
01-31-2011, 18:05
OP likes :poke:

RussP
01-31-2011, 18:13
You know... I think the owners here have the name of this particular form all wrong.

It should be changed to "Cop Worship" instead of "Cop Talk"...

Cuz its clear that all any of you guys want to hear is praise, worship and positive reinforcement from your peers. And when someone, anyone comes here and does not tow the party lien they are immediately case aside as a heretic or troll.Have you read this?...Once again and for the record, I and my site are big fans of LEO's and we support them. You do not have to like them yourself, but you do have to treat them respectfully if you want to post on my site...Eric

wprebeck
01-31-2011, 18:36
Have you read this?

Russ,

He might also read the guidelines on how Eric wants articles posted, so as to avoid copyright issues. This is at least the second time he hadn't bothered to follow Eric's rules.

As far as being a cop goes - he is one, IIRC. But, I think he's small town somewhere in Ohio. Small town work is a lot different than big city work, as we all know. I also seem to recollect he's on at least his 2nd agency, and that he's caused trolling problems in this forum before.

Dr Rockso
01-31-2011, 18:51
Hi everybody. I've not posted on GT in quite a long time, but I've spent the last couple days looking through a lot of the FBI's LEOKA data (for an unrelated matter, trying to dig up some data to combat some "cop-killer bullet" silliness going on in California right now).

I have to say that having looked at the data, I'm increasingly of the opinion that the "war on cops" articles I've been reading recently are yet another example of media sensationalism run amok. Looking at several LEOKA documents (including the one linked above by Patchman), you can see that once you control for the total number of officers the proportional number of assaults have decreased steadily and substantially since the '90s. The LEOKA reports these numbers are from are 2009, 2000, and 1996 (important because there are some year-to-year adjustments, but that variability isn't enough to skew the results significantly).

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7586/officersassaultedbyyear.png

Is there something that I'm missing here?

txleapd
01-31-2011, 18:52
Right!

Cuz no cop would ever disagree with or question a fellow cop or cops opinion...

I don't know of any cops would refer to all other cops as being "slightly right of the Kaiser", or basically call cops oppressors....

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 18:52
Russ,

He might also read the guidelines on how Eric wants articles posted, so as to avoid copyright issues. This is at least the second time he hadn't bothered to follow Eric's rules.

As far as being a cop goes - he is one, IIRC. But, I think he's small town somewhere in Ohio. Small town work is a lot different than big city work, as we all know. I also seem to recollect he's on at least his 2nd agency, and that he's caused trolling problems in this forum before.

So what your saying, to butcher the late, great Mel Brooks "what we got here is one of them self hating Cops".

CW Mock
01-31-2011, 18:56
I don't regularly comment in these types of threads, but the discussion here caught my attention, mainly this line here:

"Cuz its clear that all any of you guys want to hear is praise, worship and positive reinforcement from your peers. And when someone, anyone comes here and does not tow the party lien they are immediately case aside as a heretic or troll."

Its not about a party line, or anything like it. Cops are cut from all sorts of cloth, and have about every differing opinion under the sun. Myself, I probably am pretty far right on a lot of things, but that is irrelevant. The impression that I get is that you have missed something important - that we are all "cops," and realistically, often times the ONLY person we can count on to have our best interests in mind is another blue uniform at o-dark-thirty in an alley, or the side of a lonely highway. Not supervisors, admin, the public - but other cops. You leave the distinct impression from about all your posts in all your threads you could give a damn about your brothers and sisters in uniform, and have some sort of axe to grind. I don't know what it is, or why - but it taints everything you put up here, and makes it hard to look at without rolling one's eyes. That impression is what makes people think you are a heretic or troll, not the material you post. I guarantee you that 95% of it is in the delivery, not the actual package.

To address the article. It's a mediocre piece that obviously skirts around the totality of the circumstances to push an angle. I don't know the author or his/her work, but if this piece is indicative of the quality of material he/she produces on a regular basis, clearly they have not graduated to the "big leagues." Even a relative newcomer would have the common sense to look at the totality of circumstances, which the others have touched on here. I think media sensationalism is part of the perception.

Whether or not this is an "anti-cop trend" I can only tell you that from personal experience, and five years on the job there is something seriously wrong with people now, and it sure as heck seems like we are hated more than ever, or perhaps criminals are just emboldened by an apathetic judiciary. What makes it worse are the guys we have "working for a paycheck" who look out for themselves first, and everyone else including their squadmates second.

It's a dangerous job, and its getting more dangerous. Experience and numbers support that. The sociologist in me tells me its a million different things contributing to it. Calling it an anti-cop trend seems to make sense.

txleapd
01-31-2011, 18:59
There's definitely an anti-cop trend... Granted not all of the cop haters are trying to kill us. Some of them are writing news articles or posting on Internet messageboards.

JBaird22
01-31-2011, 19:01
Its not about being worshiped or even patted on the back, but the last thing we want when we log onto a web site, we exchange ideas, we tell each other its okay and in general support each other because no one else will. Its articles, and people like the OP, who I would bet if he is in fact a cop, is a real joy to work with, that make us pigeon hole ourselves and avoid contact with the general public, admin and pretty much anyone else that questions our right and legally justified actions.

If I'm super conservative, so be it. I'm also a proud member of the thin blue line.

Rohniss
01-31-2011, 19:03
There's definitely an anti-cop trend... Granted not all of the cop haters are trying to kill us. Some of them are writing news articles or posting on Internet messageboards.

And for that we should be thankful. However you never know how much it will take to move from just words to actions. It's my opinion that very few people wake up one day and say, I wanna shoot at the police. If I made a guess is that you would find a pattern of talking themselves up to it, or watching/reading stuff to edge them up to that level.

TBO
01-31-2011, 19:29
JSandi's spelling, grammar, and sentence structure are not up to the standards of the ancient knuckle dragger LEO's still around.

If he's going to pose, at least get a program to check to spelling/grammar... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v90/TheeBadOne/TBO/doh.gif

S.O.Interceptor
01-31-2011, 19:52
Damn!

There is intelligent life in here! :faint:

Yes there is. Always has been. And the average IQ of this forum will increase dramatically when you log off.

Are you a sworn LEO?

You haven't read his previous post, have you?

RussP
01-31-2011, 19:59
...You haven't read his previous post, have you?I read a few, but, damn, I must have missed the good one. Got a link?

Patchman
01-31-2011, 19:59
Hi everybody. I've not posted on GT in quite a long time, but I've spent the last couple days looking through a lot of the FBI's LEOKA data (for an unrelated matter, trying to dig up some data to combat some "cop-killer bullet" silliness going on in California right now).

I have to say that having looked at the data, I'm increasingly of the opinion that the "war on cops" articles I've been reading recently are yet another example of media sensationalism run amok. Looking at several LEOKA documents (including the one linked above by Patchman), you can see that once you control for the total number of officers the proportional number of assaults have decreased steadily and substantially since the '90s. The LEOKA reports these numbers are from are 2009, 2000, and 1996 (important because there are some year-to-year adjustments, but that variability isn't enough to skew the results significantly).

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/7586/officersassaultedbyyear.png

Is there something that I'm missing here?

I'm just curious, Dr Rockso, about the interpretations of the percentages. As per your post, in 1987, 16.85 % of LEOs were assaulted. In 2009, 10.30 % were assaulted. So in academia, what percentage of a population being assaulted is considered "reasonable?"

I mean, for example, if in 1987, 16.85 % of the Asian population in the U.S. were assaulted, and by 2009, only 10.30 % of Asian were assaulted, would that be considered OK? A great improvement? Why are they even complaining?

In the same time frame, 1987 to 2009, what percentage of America were victims of assaults?

And of course, how does LE's self-initiated Officer Survival movement that started in the early 1970s come into play? To imply that LE, statistically, is only getting safer because society is far less violent, is false.

Dr Rockso
01-31-2011, 20:14
I'm just curious, Dr Rockso, about the interpretations of the percentages. As per your post, in 1987, 16.85 % of LEOs were assaulted. In 2009, 10.30 % were assaulted. So in academia, what percentage of a population being assaulted is considered "reasonable?"

I mean, for example, if in 1987, 16.85 % of the Asian population in the U.S. were assaulted, and by 2009, only 10.30 % of Asians were assaulted, would that be considered OK? A great improvement? Why are they even complaining?

In the same time frame, 1987 to 2009, what percentage of America were victims of assaults?

Of course I'd like the number of assaults to be zero, and I'm in no way suggesting that LEOs don't get assaulted at much higher rates than the general population. What I am saying, though, is that the perception given by media articles is that the problem has escalated to an all-time high, which, as far as I can tell, just isn't supported by reality.

If you ask an average person what the current crime rate is relative to what it was 10 years ago, they'll almost invariably tell you that it's higher despite the fact that just isn't true. There's a strong bias toward sensationalism in the media that just causes people to constantly think that things are awful, and rarely are these sorts of things actually put into context.

An unfortunate side effect of media sensationalism (despite the fact that it makes people believe things that aren't so) is that, especially in regards to perceptions surrounding crime and law enforcement, it tends to give politicians a big incentive to look like they're "doing something". As gun owners, that doesn't typically end well for us.

Patchman
01-31-2011, 20:21
Yes. Media lives and dies by sensationalism. :supergrin:

tortoise
01-31-2011, 20:22
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TBO
01-31-2011, 20:22
I read a few, but, damn, I must have missed the good one. Got a link?

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863

CAcop
01-31-2011, 20:38
Jsandi reminds me of a guy at work. The only difference is that he throws out liberal stuff to be the contrarian. If you argue with him he gets all jazzed and happy. If you ignore him and go about his business.

I guess Jsandi is "that guy."

4949shooter
01-31-2011, 21:38
Jsandi reminds me of a guy at work. The only difference is that he throws out liberal stuff to be the contrarian. If you argue with him he gets all jazzed and happy. If you ignore him and go about his business.

I guess Jsandi is "that guy."

Yep brother.

And every department has "that guy."

4949shooter
01-31-2011, 21:39
Yes I did, "I have no beef"... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

Answer the question JSandi.

What's your beef? What are you trying to prove here?

Answer the question.

4949shooter
01-31-2011, 21:43
Is there something that I'm missing here?

Nope. Like was said before, fewer police officers die today because of improved training, tactics, and equipment.

Oh yeah, trauma centers have improved also.

RussP
01-31-2011, 21:46
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863Oh my...

tortoise
01-31-2011, 23:17
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BlackPaladin
01-31-2011, 23:17
OP, NO friggin way are you in LE. If you spewed this crap to ANY agency YOU would be crucified by your own guys. Not to mention you are a **ssy, with too much time to research your agenda. What the heck, get a ticket once and feel you were screwed over?

As for the link to the post regarding the 84yr old guy that got into the scuffle, see above comment, second sentance.

OP, you are a TROLL, get out.

Dragoon44
01-31-2011, 23:37
Radly Balko is a died in the wool POS cop hater.

And NOTHING that jerkoff has to say is worth discussing.

actionshooter10
02-01-2011, 02:13
You know... I think the owners here have the name of this particular form all wrong.

It should be changed to "Cop Worship" instead of "Cop Talk"...

Cuz its clear that all any of you guys want to hear is praise, worship and positive reinforcement from your peers. And when someone, anyone comes here and does not tow the party lien they are immediately case aside as a heretic or troll.

At least you're entertaining.

I've yet to see a post from you that's pro-LE.

You constantly post articles or links that are critical (at the least) of LE.

The only reason I have trouble thinking of you as LEO is that you rush to judgement too quickly. I can cite examples of you reading an article and taking a stance without having all the facts.

If you've been in LE for ANY amount of time, you know how often the press gets it right.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 04:45
Answer the question JSandi.

What's your beef? What are you trying to prove here?

Answer the question.

For the 3rd time, "I have no beef"... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

What part of this passes your understand? :dunno:

4949shooter
02-01-2011, 04:46
Because your actions prove otherwise.

Now answer the question please.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 04:49
The only reason I have trouble thinking of you as LEO is that you rush to judgement too quickly.

Well, I can understand that looking upon my posting history, but I assure you my "rush to judgement" a you call it, is based upon my experience.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 04:53
Because your actions prove otherwise.

Now answer the question please.

Sorry there is no reaching, nor helping you.

You've made up your mind, which is fine... and nothing I could say or do will change that.

Just like a good number of the officers I work with. Once they have it set in their mind that Joe Average is in the wrong nothing will change their minds.

Then they get all pissed once the shift sergeant or watch commander starts questioning their PC and report or the solicitor tosses the case.

4949shooter
02-01-2011, 04:59
I might be a little more open minded than you think. Why do you think I am asking, rather than trashing you outright?

What is your motivation for posting this kind of propaganda, and yes, your posting history in general?

Patchman
02-01-2011, 05:40
At this point in time jsandi can only continue to (1) insist he's LE, and (2) claim that "I have no beef... I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out..."

He's lying of course, but has to maintain this lie or else be publicly outed.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 06:04
I might be a little more open minded than you think. Why do you think I am asking, rather than trashing you outright?

What is your motivation for posting this kind of propaganda, and yes, your posting history in general?

I've just become more critical of the profession over the years. We claim to hold ourselves to a higher standard. But what I've seen personally is the exact opposite.

More and more we are promoting the incompetent and incapable. The quality of new-hires has hit rock bottom and started to dig. We allow the bad officers to somehow skate while we punish the good ones who just make an honest mistake. We act in a manor that's sometimes, many times appalling.

Then we react surprised when the public lashes out at us, a public poll finds that 47% of the people polled no longer trust us. Or someone with a large megaphone writes articles such as this one.

Ignoring this will not make it go away. Facts do not cease to exist because we simply chose to ignore them.

More and more we are seeing criminals acts by ourselves being blasted all over youtube, et al... which does nothing but hurt the honest cops trying to do the right thing. And the whole idea of the one bad apple theory no longer passes the smell test.

We've been blaming the "one bad apple" for decades now and the official bad apple count has far exceeded the acceptable bad apple to bushel basket ratio. The argument no longer holds water when you begin to look at the sheer number and the magnitude of news stories in print and TV media today of misconduct and crimes committed by officers on a daily basis. And these are just the incidents that are reported in the media. Incidents from departments that are large enough to warrant media scrutiny.

Now this could be two fold.

First, its that incidents like this have been going on all these years, in the same numbers and rates. It took the internet to shine light upon the issue.

Or we are really are seeing a rise in cases of misconduct.

Which is it, I don't know.

But it is my experience that people rarely change regardless of occupation. There has to be consequences for bad behavior and those consequences have to be firm and permanent in order for them to make an impact.

The public hates us because of us... they didn't wake up one morning and just chose to start hating us. This is been growing for years and its getting worse.

We can't turn into Mr. Rogers and still do our job, that I completely understand. But if we don't find a middle ground to walk there will be a real War on Cops and all of us will be taking fire daily. The public is upset over the economy, over heavy handed government laws and regulations, traffic cameras, code enforcement, aggressive traffic enforcement and a rise in traffic related fines. And regardless of what the case may be, they are upset at us for enforcing such laws and regs. And see us as the oppressors.

When Rome fell it was the soldiers/law enforcers who bore the brunt of the publics rage. Those the public saw most and those who's face the public associated most with an out of control government.

I see the same problems as all the other guys do. The public no longer respects us and therefore tend to be more dynamic when dealing with us.

Here we once saw a car chase a month more or less. Now its two or three a week. Foot chases, resistances with force. We have seen 2 patrol cars vandalized recently.

You get to a call and no one wants to even acknowledge your presence muchless answer any questions you ask. Or take part in anything close to an on-scene investigation. Despite the fact that they called us.

Its a true problem, but I contend that the catalyst wasn't too much fluoride in the drinking water. It was us, they way we have conducted ourselves in recent history and how the public has perceived our actions recently.

TBO
02-01-2011, 06:19
Another pizza delivery guy?

Hack
02-01-2011, 08:19
Another pizza delivery guy?

Or, perhaps he is simply, "That guy". Maybe if he would verify his department employment or something.:dunno:

wprebeck
02-01-2011, 08:40
Another pizza delivery guy?

Wasn't that VPA or something like that?

And, if he IS a cop, he really hates his job and his coworkers.

Mayhem like Me
02-01-2011, 08:45
I have a different take I think he is really a cop, I have felt some of his sentiments I have seen and supervised a few bad cops that could not handle themselves and resorted to spray and stick before I ever would, but then I realized it was not their fault.

They have been allowed to thrive in our profession because of lax physical standards and poor training.

I started this job in 1983 with Guys that I would put up against anyone physically as far as holding their own when the chips were down.

I can look at our present state across the country today and say "not so much".

I am sure many/all of you here are in the "able to go " category and work at your craft to be effective at your job.

Problem is we do have "that guy and girl " working with us that got in this profession because they needed a job, not because they believed in what they were doing and that is very problematic, and why we see ourselves in the news painted in a bad light.

Do some stats say we are less likly to be attacked? maybe, but with the amount of training we have, the almost universal issue of protective vests, radio tracking ,GPS monitoring and advanced life support it does not surprise me we have less deaths, look at the number of soldiers that have been badly wonded making in back alive. We have become very adept at saving the heart lungs and brain...


I still see a local officer that made it out of a situation alive, but will never work again due to a brain injury after a shooting she made it out, but at what cost..

Cochese
02-01-2011, 09:50
I've just become more critical of the profession over the years. We claim to hold ourselves to a higher standard. But what I've seen personally is the exact opposite.

More and more we are promoting the incompetent and incapable. The quality of new-hires has hit rock bottom and started to dig. We allow the bad officers to somehow skate while we punish the good ones who just make an honest mistake. We act in a manor that's sometimes, many times appalling.

Then we react surprised when the public lashes out at us, a public poll finds that 47% of the people polled no longer trust us. Or someone with a large megaphone writes articles such as this one.

Ignoring this will not make it go away. Facts do not cease to exist because we simply chose to ignore them.

More and more we are seeing criminals acts by ourselves being blasted all over youtube, et al... which does nothing but hurt the honest cops trying to do the right thing. And the whole idea of the one bad apple theory no longer passes the smell test.

We've been blaming the "one bad apple" for decades now and the official bad apple count has far exceeded the acceptable bad apple to bushel basket ratio. The argument no longer holds water when you begin to look at the sheer number and the magnitude of news stories in print and TV media today of misconduct and crimes committed by officers on a daily basis. And these are just the incidents that are reported in the media. Incidents from departments that are large enough to warrant media scrutiny.

Now this could be two fold.

First, its that incidents like this have been going on all these years, in the same numbers and rates. It took the internet to shine light upon the issue.

Or we are really are seeing a rise in cases of misconduct.

Which is it, I don't know.

But it is my experience that people rarely change regardless of occupation. There has to be consequences for bad behavior and those consequences have to be firm and permanent in order for them to make an impact.

The public hates us because of us... they didn't wake up one morning and just chose to start hating us. This is been growing for years and its getting worse.

We can't turn into Mr. Rogers and still do our job, that I completely understand. But if we don't find a middle ground to walk there will be a real War on Cops and all of us will be taking fire daily. The public is upset over the economy, over heavy handed government laws and regulations, traffic cameras, code enforcement, aggressive traffic enforcement and a rise in traffic related fines. And regardless of what the case may be, they are upset at us for enforcing such laws and regs. And see us as the oppressors.

When Rome fell it was the soldiers/law enforcers who bore the brunt of the publics rage. Those the public saw most and those who's face the public associated most with an out of control government.

I see the same problems as all the other guys do. The public no longer respects us and therefore tend to be more dynamic when dealing with us.

Here we once saw a car chase a month more or less. Now its two or three a week. Foot chases, resistances with force. We have seen 2 patrol cars vandalized recently.

You get to a call and no one wants to even acknowledge your presence muchless answer any questions you ask. Or take part in anything close to an on-scene investigation. Despite the fact that they called us.

Its a true problem, but I contend that the catalyst wasn't too much fluoride in the drinking water. It was us, they way we have conducted ourselves in recent history and how the public has perceived our actions recently.

It is a shame it took you three pages here and umpteen threads to articulate your opinion, but I'm glad you figured out how to communicate.

See, what you have in this little enclave of Glock Talk is a bunch of like minded cops who all represent the good in our profession. We are all gun friendly and respectful of the Constitution. I have personally met and maintain friendships with a number of folks here and I can tell you.... target somewhere else.

We all understand fundamentally what you are trying to say. We recognize we are our own worst enemy, wit regard to public perception and reaction.

Difference here between US and YOU is that we are experienced enough to know we cannot change other people by posting inflammatory articles on a cop forum. We are also professional enough to know that our own personal actions and levels of professionalism work in our favor and benefit in our own personal AORs.

Your soapbox grandstanding is little more than a self depreciating introspective into what's probably more wrong with you and less wrong with the rest of us.

I think I speak for everyone here (with over 10,000 posts in Cop Talk, I'd like to think so) when I ask that you take all of these anti-LE threads and cram them up your ass.

We come here to relax and shoot the **** and trade information and ideas, not to whip ourselves like Arthur Dimmsdale in the closet with a bloody scourge, because of some percieved NEW public opinion about why cops suck.

Newsflash, there have always been anti-cop anti-establishment types out there. They just didn't have an internet powered soapbox to spread their stupidity.

Seriously, take this place for what it is and act like the cop you claim to be, or GTFO.

wprebeck
02-01-2011, 10:07
Cochese,

If I've never said it before - I love you....in a purely hetero way, mind you.:supergrin:

Cochese
02-01-2011, 10:10
:pjmn:

:supergrin:

nikerret
02-01-2011, 10:15
...i have seen and supervised a few bad cops that could not handle themselves and resorted to spray and stick before i ever would, but then i realized it was not their fault.

They have been allowed to thrive in our profession because of lax physical standards and poor training.

I started this job in 1983 with guys that i would put up against anyone physically as far as holding their own when the chips were down.

I can look at our present state across the country today and say "not so much".


more and more we are promoting the incompetent and incapable. The quality of new-hires has hit rock bottom and started to dig. We allow the bad officers to somehow skate while we punish the good ones who just make an honest mistake.

These two quoted parts make sense to me when I look back on how I was taught. In the academy, the emphasis was on theories, not application. They taught more about the theory of when to use what level of force for what situation than the actual ability to be effective in applying force.

Instead of giving ANY physical tests, the few things that were documented were done so just to measure progress. Progress was not graded, only recommended. However, PT and DT time was continually deducted from the curriculum to fit in more report writing (basic grammar and punctuation), ethics, and racial profiling training. With a GED or high school diploma, we should all be able to write a basic report. Any problems with a person in regard to ethics and being actively racist can not be taught or corrected in a few months at an academy. You are either racially motivated, or you're not. You either practice things ethically, or you don't. These things need to be checked by the hiring agency.

Throughout the beginning of grade school to the end of high school and what college I attended, it was drilled into my head that the only thing that mattered was learning enough to get a high paying job that commanded reverence. To aim for nothing short of upper management.

At the academy, I saw this mentality in full. Most of the people didn't care about knowing the knowledge on a subject. They just wanted to know the answers on the test. Most people only wanted the instructors to go over what would specifically be on the test.

At one time, tests may have been a measure of understanding on a subject. I have never seen it from a learning institution. Everything is about the written grade. Just having an "A" in something, sans understanding, is better than actually knowing the subject matter and receiving a "B".

LE, like most official measures in life, reward the book smart exclusively. However, in LE, the book smart don't fare as well as the street smart. Thus, they are promoted to management (ie. higher paid positions). This completes our circle of what should be sought after in life (per the teachings received by my generation).


we've been blaming the "one bad apple" for decades now and the official bad apple count has far exceeded the acceptable bad apple to bushel basket ratio. The argument no longer holds water when you begin to look at the sheer number and the magnitude of news stories in print and tv media today of misconduct and crimes committed by officers on a daily basis. And these are just the incidents that are reported in the media. Incidents from departments that are large enough to warrant media scrutiny.

Now this could be two fold.

First, its that incidents like this have been going on all these years, in the same numbers and rates. It took the internet to shine light upon the issue.

Or we are really are seeing a rise in cases of misconduct.

Which is it, i don't know.

But it is my experience that people rarely change regardless of occupation. There has to be consequences for bad behavior and those consequences have to be firm and permanent in order for them to make an impact.


I don't think people are any more good or bad today than they have ever been. There is no profession that hasn't been grossly soiled by reports of those "bad apples".

Combine the facts that the most sensational stories (as mentioned in a previous post) make the most profitable news and the great loss in privacy of individuals' activities (due to technology); and you end up with a lot of skeletons being exposed that 30 years ago would have stayed buried do to a lack of shovels and a willingness to let the dead lie.

The trend today is to play a dirtier political game than in recent history, but the pendulum will always swing. This was not allowed decades ago. We can find accounts of such behavior in older documented history.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 10:26
It is a shame it took you three pages here and umpteen threads to articulate your opinion, but I'm glad you figured out how to communicate.

See, what you have in this little enclave of Glock Talk is a bunch of like minded cops who all represent the good in our profession. We are all gun friendly and respectful of the Constitution. I have personally met and maintain friendships with a number of folks here and I can tell you.... target somewhere else.

We all understand fundamentally what you are trying to say. We recognize we are our own worst enemy, wit regard to public perception and reaction.

Difference here between US and YOU is that we are experienced enough to know we cannot change other people by posting inflammatory articles on a cop forum. We are also professional enough to know that our own personal actions and levels of professionalism work in our favor and benefit in our own personal AORs.

Your soapbox grandstanding is little more than a self depreciating introspective into what's probably more wrong with you and less wrong with the rest of us.

I think I speak for everyone here (with over 10,000 posts in Cop Talk, I'd like to think so) when I ask that you take all of these anti-LE threads and cram them up your ass.

We come here to relax and shoot the **** and trade information and ideas, not to whip ourselves like Arthur Dimmsdale in the closet with a bloody scourge, because of some percieved NEW public opinion about why cops suck.

Newsflash, there have always been anti-cop anti-establishment types out there. They just didn't have an internet powered soapbox to spread their stupidity.

Seriously, take this place for what it is and act like the cop you claim to be, or GTFO.



Roger that, I'll stand down then.

Sorry for the ruffled feathers.

Cochese
02-01-2011, 10:32
These two quoted parts make sense to me when I look back on how I was taught. In the academy, the emphasis was on theories, not application. They taught more about the theory of when to use what level of force for what situation than the actual ability to be effective in applying force.

Instead of giving ANY physical tests, the few things that were documented were done so just to measure progress. Progress was not graded, only recommended. However, PT and DT time was continually deducted from the curriculum to fit in more report writing (basic grammar and punctuation), ethics, and racial profiling training. With a GED or high school diploma, we should all be able to write a basic report. Any problems with a person in regard to ethics and being actively racist can not be taught or corrected in a few months at an academy. You are either racially motivated, or you're not. You either practice things ethically, or you don't. These things need to be checked by the hiring agency.

Throughout the beginning of grade school to the end of high school and what college I attended, it was drilled into my head that the only thing that mattered was learning enough to get a high paying job that commanded reverence. To aim for nothing short of upper management.

At the academy, I saw this mentality in full. Most of the people didn't care about knowing the knowledge on a subject. They just wanted to know the answers on the test. Most people only wanted the instructors to go over what would specifically be on the test.

At one time, tests may have been a measure of understanding on a subject. I have never seen it from a learning institution. Everything is about the written grade. Just having an "A" in something, sans understanding, is better than actually knowing the subject matter and receiving a "B".

LE, like most official measures in life, reward the book smart exclusively. However, in LE, the book smart don't fare as well as the street smart. Thus, they are promoted to management (ie. higher paid positions). This completes our circle of what should be sought after in life (per the teachings received by my generation).



I don't think people are any more good or bad today than they have ever been. There is no profession that hasn't been grossly soiled by reports of those "bad apples".

Combine the facts that the most sensational stories (as mentioned in a previous post) make the most profitable news and the great loss in privacy of individuals' activities (due to technology); and you end up with a lot of skeletons being exposed that 30 years ago would have stayed buried do to a lack of shovels and a willingness to let the dead lie.

The trend today is to play a dirtier political game than in recent history, but the pendulum will always swing. This was not allowed decades ago. We can find accounts of such behavior in older documented history.

This is an excellent post.

Roger that, I'll stand down then.

Sorry for the ruffled feathers.

No apology necessary.

Feel free to remain and participate, by all means.

Just remember who your target audience is here and why we spend our off time in this strange corner of GT. :wavey:

Kadetklapp
02-01-2011, 10:58
I have a different take I think he is really a cop, I have felt some of his sentiments I have seen and supervised a few bad cops that could not handle themselves and resorted to spray and stick before I ever would, but then I realized it was not their fault.

They have been allowed to thrive in our profession because of lax physical standards and poor training.

I started this job in 1983 with Guys that I would put up against anyone physically as far as holding their own when the chips were down.

I can look at our present state across the country today and say "not so much".

I am sure many/all of you here are in the "able to go " category and work at your craft to be effective at your job.

Problem is we do have "that guy and girl " working with us that got in this profession because they needed a job, not because they believed in what they were doing and that is very problematic, and why we see ourselves in the news painted in a bad light.

Do some stats say we are less likly to be attacked? maybe, but with the amount of training we have, the almost universal issue of protective vests, radio tracking ,GPS monitoring and advanced life support it does not surprise me we have less deaths, look at the number of soldiers that have been badly wonded making in back alive. We have become very adept at saving the heart lungs and brain...


I still see a local officer that made it out of a situation alive, but will never work again due to a brain injury after a shooting she made it out, but at what cost..

I agree that he may be a cop, but completely disagree with what you are saying about physical conditioning having anything to do with bad cops.

Right now we have a "cop" sitting in our jail on a million dollar bond for beating the ever-loving piss out of his girlfriend, yanking the phone out of the wall while she was on 911, and holding her hostage for three hours. He's extremely fit and at one time was a street-smart cop. He's an absolute piece of garbage and an embarrassment to our profession. This is his third arrest in as many years.

Then there are the various other media-sensationalized "bad cops" out there. Not a single one that I've seen has been some pretzel-dust covered fatass.

To the contrary, instead of hyper-analyzing the caloric intake of recruits, worrying over getting that mile and a half run in EXACTLY 16 minutes and 48 seconds, we worry more about the moral character of the person we are hiring, the ability of their comprehension of what their duties will be, and whether or not they possess a spine. Then we will worry about if they can scale a fence and run a mile and a half.

CAcop
02-01-2011, 11:02
Jsandi in order to not be that guy you can't drop a turd in the punchbowl without letting people know why.

To just drop that article without comment makes it look like you are trolling. Then when you finally did explain yourself it made a little more sense.

It's just like "that guy" we have at work. It's all fun and games jacking someone up until he realizes he really pissed someone off by crossing a line he should have not crossed. Then he has to backpedal.

oldgraywolf
02-01-2011, 11:03
I continue to be impressed by the quality of cops on this forum.

<----NAC

Mayhem like Me
02-01-2011, 11:05
I agree that he may be a cop, but completely disagree with what you are saying about physical conditioning having anything to do with bad cops.

Right now we have a "cop" sitting in our jail on a million dollar bond for beating the ever-loving piss out of his girlfriend, yanking the phone out of the wall while she was on 911, and holding her hostage for three hours. He's extremely fit and at one time was a street-smart cop. He's an absolute piece of garbage and an embarrassment to our profession. This is his third arrest in as many years.

Then there are the various other media-sensationalized "bad cops" out there. Not a single one that I've seen has been some pretzel-dust covered fatass.

To the contrary, instead of hyper-analyzing the caloric intake of recruits, worrying over getting that mile and a half run in EXACTLY 16 minutes and 48 seconds, we worry more about the moral character of the person we are hiring, the ability of their comprehension of what their duties will be, and whether or not they possess a spine. Then we will worry about if they can scale a fence and run a mile and a half.
Dude READ my post and the point I made, It is also the people that got in this line of work because they needed a job, not because they believe in what we do..(the guy you described)
'
Problem is we do have "that guy and girl " working with us that got in this profession because they needed a job, not because they believed in what they were doing and that is very problematic, and why we see ourselves in the news painted in a bad light.'




I made no big deal of fitness I said they could physically handle themselves that means mindset and willingness to act.(correctly) not gym rats that beat on people cause they can.

Kadetklapp
02-01-2011, 11:09
Dude READ my post and the point I made, It is also the people that got in this line of work because they needed a job, not because they believe in what we do..(the guy you described)
'
Problem is we do have "that guy and girl " working with us that got in this profession because they needed a job, not because they believed in what they were doing and that is very problematic, and why we see ourselves in the news painted in a bad light.'




I made no big deal of fitness I said they could physically handle themselves that means mindset and willingness to act.(correctly) not gym rats that beat on people cause they can.

Easy Rod....

Mayhem like Me
02-01-2011, 11:10
Easy Rod....

um,, Ok whats your point?

Kadetklapp
02-01-2011, 11:12
um,, Ok whats your point?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRd7hk2c0IVK5JmOLe1oXVBwp8Qitb81eVCu2wN712agdPZnc8vLw

**IM NOT IMPLYING THAT YOU LOOK ANYTHING LIKE ROD FARVA**

I agree whole-heartedly with your point, that's my point.

Mayhem like Me
02-01-2011, 11:13
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRd7hk2c0IVK5JmOLe1oXVBwp8Qitb81eVCu2wN712agdPZnc8vLw

**IM NOT IMPLYING THAT YOU LOOK ANYTHING LIKE ROD FARVA**

Still not seeing why you missing the entire point of my post was somehow Farve like??


Maybe we need a liter cola.

AngryBassets
02-01-2011, 11:24
Well I didn't expect him to be on anyones Christmas Card list here, considered that most of y'all are slightly right of the Kaiser when it come to law and order issues...

Holy clueless about the regulars in CT, Batman! :upeyes:

I simply posted an article for discussion and the peanut gallery freaked out...

No, the "peanut gallery" (the members who have hundreds, if not thousands of posts in this particular forum) discussed and disagreed with the article. Go post an article discussing what's a warmer coat: Mink or Rabbit, on a PETA forum.

You know... I think the owners here have the name of this particular form all wrong.

It should be changed to "Cop Worship" instead of "Cop Talk"...

Cuz its clear that all any of you guys want to hear is praise, worship and positive reinforcement from your peers. And when someone, anyone comes here and does not tow the party lien they are immediately case aside as a heretic or troll.

Uh, posting an article like that where many of the regular posters here have recently attended cop funerals can easily earn yourself one of those titles, duh.

Thanks for (improperly) posting that compelling article. I'll respon in an appropriate manner. (http://glocktalk.com/forums/profile.php?do=ignorelist)

RussP
02-01-2011, 11:51
I continue to be impressed by the quality of cops on this forum.

<----NACAmen...

4949shooter
02-01-2011, 13:32
Well JSandi I am glad you finally fessed up. It wasn't so bad, was it? Now people can understand you, and see you in a different light.

I echo what was said above, in that you are targeting the wrong audience. The cops on this forum post here because they care. These guys are the creme of the crop, in my humble opinion.

Maybe I am not one to give advice, but try not to let what you see at work get you down. The best thing you can do is set the right example for others to follow. Sometimes it hurts, but in the end people will see the righteousness of your efforts.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 13:35
Criticism received and accepted.

Taking my public flogging like I should.

Sorry guys and gals. From here on out I will do my best to qualify any post I make. And if I should fail again. Ya'll can use tasers next time.

JSandi
02-01-2011, 13:36
Well JSandi I am glad you finally fessed up. It wasn't so bad, was it? Now people can understand you, and see you in a different light.

I echo what was said above, in that you are targeting the wrong audience. The cops on this forum post here because they care. These guys are the creme of the crop, in my humble opinion.

Maybe I am not one to give advice, but try not to let what you see at work get you down. The best thing you can do is set the right example for others to follow. Sometimes it hurts, but in the end people will see the righteousness of your efforts.

Sage advice.

4949shooter
02-01-2011, 14:09
Criticism received and accepted.

Taking my public flogging like I should.

Sorry guys and gals. From here on out I will do my best to qualify any post I make. And if I should fail again. Ya'll can use tasers next time.



It's all good Brother.

AngryBassets
02-01-2011, 16:01
I must have skipped a page when I replied.

I understand/agree to an extent where he's coming from, but I'm set in believing that the 'bad cops' truly are a minority. The 84 year old neck-broken-thing is a good example. Was I there? No. Have I had to use force on elderly people? Yes. Do I go about it like it's a 20 year old Camden corner boy who is high on wet at 1:30am prowling around some hell hole apartment complex? Of course not.

Perhaps his rhetoric would be best served by trying to be an example/mentor to the young cops out there, get promoted, and make a difference. You know; a "think globally/act locally" kinda thing.

Trolling this group of guys isn't going to accomplish anything than generate homoerotic posts from Cochese and TBO data-mining every post you've ever made.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn192/TacticalFats/Forum/jump.gif

Cochese
02-01-2011, 19:14
:couch:


I'm in da shadows, mining yo posts.

txleapd
02-01-2011, 20:10
http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863

Anyone that puts their hands on me, get my hands put on them right back... And it rarely ends well for the other party. Anyone who doesn't agree, or understand why, isn't a cop. Even if they might wear a uniform.

The OP is obviously a troll. I don't care what he claims, or if he does happen to have a job in LE. Based on the amount of his board violations already pointed out, I'm just counting the time he's still allowed to post here. At the least, I've added another to my ignore list.

Hack
02-01-2011, 20:30
I must have skipped a page when I replied.

I understand/agree to an extent where he's coming from, but I'm set in believing that the 'bad cops' truly are a minority. The 84 year old neck-broken-thing is a good example. Was I there? No. Have I had to use force on elderly people? Yes. Do I go about it like it's a 20 year old Camden corner boy who is high on wet at 1:30am prowling around some hell hole apartment complex? Of course not.

Perhaps his rhetoric would be best served by trying to be an example/mentor to the young cops out there, get promoted, and make a difference. You know; a "think globally/act locally" kinda thing.

Trolling this group of guys isn't going to accomplish anything than generate homoerotic posts from Cochese and TBO data-mining every post you've ever made.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn192/TacticalFats/Forum/jump.gif

Totally off topic.

I need those smilies as a target at a small arms range. That would be a fun challenge.

Back on topic. He accepted a public word flogging. Hmm...

txleapd
02-01-2011, 20:30
I replied before I finished reading the entire thread... But I still stand by my last post.

Dukeboy01
02-01-2011, 20:45
:puking:

Man, this thread has turned so sweet I think it's giving me diabetes...

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp326/Dukeboy34855/huggingkittens.jpg

Get a room. j/k

AngryBassets
02-01-2011, 21:13
Totally off topic.

I need those smilies as a target at a small arms range. That would be a fun challenge.


I made a request for them to be added but no love, I guess.

Hack
02-01-2011, 21:19
I made a request for them to be added but no love, I guess.

They would not allow us to where I work, but an arcade that was a laser firing range would be sweet. I need to win the lottery or something so I can put that idea to work here.

AngryBassets
02-01-2011, 21:24
No, I mean that I requested them to be added here as a smilie lol.

Jumping idiotic happy faces would be a neat target, you are correct.

Hack
02-01-2011, 21:35
No, I mean that I requested them to be added here as a smilie lol.

Jumping idiotic happy faces would be a neat target, you are correct.

Oh, lol. I have target practice on the brain.:rofl:

txleapd
02-02-2011, 05:42
Am I the only person here who thinks this thread has taken an incredibly creepy turn?

A6Gator
02-02-2011, 08:16
I this this paragraph (the last paragraph of the essay) pretty much reveals the writer's anti-LE slant.

I googled Balko's work on behalf of Mumia. I've read enough to see he's an anti-cop ******.

Just one: http://elsewhere.radgeek.com/tag/mumia_abu_jamal/

RussP
02-02-2011, 14:29
Am I the only person here who thinks this thread has taken an incredibly creepy turn?It's just civility at its finest!!!!!
:cool:

Kadetklapp
02-02-2011, 16:59
:puking:

Man, this thread has turned so sweet I think it's giving me diabetes...

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp326/Dukeboy34855/huggingkittens.jpg

Get a room. j/k

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTON49QwgA_04W_4GzudUXzHWdaNC71iL4g8susq0PrTXIRnqXt&t=1

TBO
02-02-2011, 18:41
:noevil:

Con43
02-02-2011, 18:55
This is his third arrest in as many years.




Why then is he still employed as a police officer. Is this maybe why the public has the preception that you protect your own.

We had an incident where an off duty police officer was found drunk passed out behind the wheel of his car in a public garage,engine running. Police were called they passed it to the sheriff's dept.as is normal practice in these cases for conflict of intrest reasons. But even this wasn't done for over two hours. The sheriff arrived an hour after that and by the time they all screwed around and took him for a alcohol test something like 6 hours had passed and he passed the test and was not charged with DWI and is still working today. What would of happened to a civilian in the same situation. If your honest you would have to say he would of been in jail for at least 3 hours at the six hour mark charged with DWI. I say this because it has happened under the exact same circumstances in years past. Those are the type of things people such as myself who have never had any run in's with law enforcemnt and really have no ax to grind wonder about. Now you can flame me as anti LEO really I am quite the opposite, I would just like to know how you justify that type of incident and do you feel those type of actions hurt the image of LEO's in the publics eye.

4949shooter
02-02-2011, 18:57
You will have to ask that question to the people directly involved in the incident you speak of.

We cannot answer for them.

txleapd
02-02-2011, 19:06
California

Court: No warrant needed to search cell phone

The California Supreme Court ruled Monday that police can search the cell phone of a person who's been arrested -- including text messages -- without obtaining a warrant, and use that data as evidence.

http://redtape.msnbc.com/2011/01/court-cops-can-search-cell-phone-without-warrant.html

Wrong thread, TBO?

There's a senility joke around here somewhere... :whistling:

dgg9
02-03-2011, 15:01
I googled Balko's work on behalf of Mumia. I've read enough to see he's an anti-cop ******.

Just one: http://elsewhere.radgeek.com/tag/mumia_abu_jamal/

Um, I don't think "radgeek" is Radley Balko.

Mayhem like Me
02-03-2011, 16:22
Um, I don't think "radgeek" is Radley Balko.

Read the blog!
RadGeek talks of balko being the only supporter besides the family...

dgg9
02-03-2011, 16:41
Read the blog!
RadGeek talks of balko being the only supporter besides the family...

I read the blog page. It doesn't say that at all. It talks of Balko supporting Cory Maye, NOT Mumia.

Here's the paragraph mentioning Balko:

As far as I know, Cory Maye had no real pre-existing support network other than his family, until Balko started writing about the case. Given the situation, frankly, the amount that Radley Balko has been able to accomplish single-handedly on this case, without any significant pre-existing network behind Cory Maye, is inspiring and nothing short of heroic.

Claiming that someone is a Mumia supporter is a damning charge, and frankly libelous if untrue. If there's some other cite which proves this, let's hear it.

TBO
02-12-2011, 12:54
#1 Claim:

http://i54.tinypic.com/10gky0h.jpg

#2 Exposed by own words (post #13 in the below thread):

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863

http://i56.tinypic.com/wvogp3.jpg
Brothers and Sisters, need I/we say more (no real Cop needs explanation of what this post shows, from one claiming to be a real world Cop)?


#3 When called on his behavior, this:

http://i54.tinypic.com/20p4q4z.jpg
...and
http://i53.tinypic.com/168tlzr.jpg
Since then he's put up how many "bad cop" threads with no reference...?

Now, for the coup de grâce...

Not a single post in an Officer down thread. For someone who claims:


I'm a Cop
I support Cops

I find it more than a bit revealing.

jmho

TBO

Morris
02-12-2011, 13:35
Oh, SNAP! (fumbling for the popcorn maker . . . )

AZLawDawg
02-12-2011, 14:02
#1 Claim:

http://i54.tinypic.com/10gky0h.jpg

#2 Exposed by own words (post #13 in the below thread):

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1266863

http://i56.tinypic.com/wvogp3.jpg
Brothers and Sisters, need I/we say more (no real Cop needs explanation of what this post shows, from one claiming to be a real world Cop)?


#3 When called on his behavior, this:

http://i54.tinypic.com/20p4q4z.jpg
...and
http://i53.tinypic.com/168tlzr.jpg
Since then he's put up how many "bad cop" threads with no reference...?

Now, for the coup de grâce...

Not a single post in an Officer down thread. For someone who claims:


I'm a Cop
I support Cops

I find it more than a bit revealing.

jmho

TBO

He should let a respected member verify him, I don't think he is LE. Anyone who thinks we can't do it here, need look no further than the emptyPD/MTPD incident. People here can do it, he should prove it. That's just my opinion.

and for the record, you can find me under AZInterceptor ( verified LEO ) at Officer resource . com. Somebody else had AZLawDawg over there. that bastard!!!

Dragoon44
02-12-2011, 14:45
The only thing that verification would prove is that at various times ( according to his own posts on various forums he has been in and out of LE quite a bit with various depts starting with being a Deputy jailer in GA.) he has been employed by an LE agency.

on one site he claims to be a SWAT team member and police sniper.

He has conclusively established in his own words that he has never been a cop.

AZLawDawg
02-12-2011, 14:57
The only thing that verification would prove is that at various times ( according to his own posts on various forums he has been in and out of LE quite a bit with various depts starting with being a Deputy jailer in GA.) he has been employed by an LE agency.

on one site he claims to be a SWAT team member and police sniper.

He has conclusively established in his own words that he has never been a cop.

Case closed.

Patchman
02-12-2011, 15:14
Criticism received and accepted.

Taking my public flogging like I should.

Sorry guys and gals. From here on out I will do my best to qualify any post I make. And if I should fail again. Ya'll can use tasers next time.

This is what we refer to as "playing possum."

Not for one minute did I or do I believe he's sworn LE. Maybe a failed Police Cadet or a failed LE wannabe who ended up working in some kind of ancillary LE position. On the fringes of LE looking in and seething with anger, resentment and jealousy.

I'm also guessing he's 28-35 y.o. and lives with mom in mom's basement. But for the record, that's speculation.

Morris
02-12-2011, 17:13
I'm also guessing he's 28-35 y.o. and lives with mom in mom's basement. But for the record, that's speculation.

Stop profiling! :supergrin:

LittleLebowski
05-16-2011, 08:37
I googled Balko's work on behalf of Mumia. I've read enough to see he's an anti-cop ******.

Just one: http://elsewhere.radgeek.com/tag/mumia_abu_jamal/

That's not Radley Balko's work. I'd enjoy seeing a factual refutation by you, of Balko's work.

razdog76
05-16-2011, 08:56
...on one site he claims to be a SWAT team member and police sniper.

:rofl:

DaBigBR
05-16-2011, 09:28
http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l99/DaBigBR/Forums/old.jpg

txleapd
05-16-2011, 10:41
Somebody bust out the platform shoes and butterfly collars. It appears what was old is new again.

Morris
05-16-2011, 10:52
Holy thread resurrection Batman!

Dukeboy01
05-16-2011, 11:20
http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp326/Dukeboy34855/Thread_Necromancy.jpg

Sorry. Just piling on.

bccop
05-16-2011, 11:37
Holy thread resurrection Batman!

No kidding!!! For a moment I thought JSandi was back and was wondering who said his name 3 times!?!?!?!

Morris
05-16-2011, 11:38
No kidding!!! For a moment I thought JSandi was back and was wondering who said his name 3 times!?!?!?!

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

OldCurlyWolf
05-16-2011, 11:59
The only reason less police officers are killed today rather than 30 plus years ago is due to improved training, tactics, and equipment. If you ask me to cite my source I will tell you same is derived from 22 years of personal experience and research.

What is your beef JSandi? Seriously, what are you trying to prove?

Then answer this.
Why do I see so many LEO's that are too damn lazy or undertrained on making a correct approach while making a traffic stop? Statistically that is one of the most dangerous things a uniformed officer does.

Makes me want to stop Yell at them "DumbA@@, Do it right!!!!!".

EOD3
05-16-2011, 12:21
IMO: More attacks on officers can be attributed to 1. More dirtbags on the street. 2. Lace panties judges. 3. Revolving door policy. 4. "Cut a deal" DA's. 5. Glorifying "cop killer" dirtbags.

I'd like to see the statistics on how many incidents involve repeat offenders and/or multiple offenders. (assuming all gang-bangers are automatically repeat offenders) :dunno:

4949shooter
05-16-2011, 18:27
Then answer this.
Why do I see so many LEO's that are too damn lazy or undertrained on making a correct approach while making a traffic stop? Statistically that is one of the most dangerous things a uniformed officer does.

Makes me want to stop Yell at them "DumbA@@, Do it right!!!!!".

Part of the answer is in EOD's post.

You are correct, some officers are too lazy and have become too complacent and forget or disregard skills they have learned. However, generally speaking our training, tactics, and equipment have come a long ways in the past 30 years.

In response to one of our people being killed on a traffic stop back in the early eighties, we changed our procedures to calling in ALL motor vehicle stops on the radio instead of only night stops, riding dual patrols on the midnight shift, adapted the H&K P7M8 service weapon in place of the revolvers we carried, put shotguns in the cars, made kevlar vests standard issue, and even went so far as to not make our "trooper of the year" award public. We in law enforcement have been improving and evolving over the decades.

Did you ever wonder why, when you walk into a station house and look at the pictures of the deceased officers on the wall, there are more black and white pictures than there are colored pics? It's because of improved training, tactics and equipment...

Dragoon44
05-16-2011, 18:37
if you want a real hoot google JSandi and read the first search result.

Panzergrenadier1979
05-16-2011, 18:41
if you want a real hoot google JSandi and read the first search result.

:rofl:

razdog76
05-16-2011, 18:49
:laughabove:

4949shooter
05-16-2011, 19:03
if you want a real hoot google JSandi and read the first search result.

:rofl: :rofl:

Sam Spade
05-16-2011, 19:57
He's kinda hot. Now, if we only had a member if FL that could investigate and report...

:whistling:

Dragoon44
05-16-2011, 20:07
He's kinda hot. Now, if we only had a member if FL that could investigate and report...

:whistling:

Dang Sam, I just said read the first search result not click on the link!

:rofl::rofl:

blueiron
05-16-2011, 20:16
Cartman - "I've been licking this carpet for 3 hours and I still don't feel like a l______."

bccop
05-16-2011, 20:19
Part of the answer is in EOD's post.

You are correct, some officers are too lazy and have become too complacent and forget or disregard skills they have learned. However, generally speaking our training, tactics, and equipment have come a long ways in the past 30 years.

In response to one of our people being killed on a traffic stop back in the early eighties, we changed our procedures to calling in ALL motor vehicle stops on the radio instead of only night stops, riding dual patrols on the midnight shift, adapted the H&K P7M8 service weapon in place of the revolvers we carried, put shotguns in the cars, made kevlar vests standard issue, and even went so far as to not make our "trooper of the year" award public. We in law enforcement have been improving and evolving over the decades.



I worked with one partner for about a year. He was a better driver and I was better using the MDT and digging up information. He would roll his eyes whenever I put us out over the radio for traffic stops (all the time).

One week I was away on annual leave and he stopped a suspicious car with out of province plates (from Washington state) on a quiet residential street. He had not put himself out on a traffic stop. When he approached the car he recognized the driver as one of our local mutants and opened the driver door. The driver put the car in reverse and the constable found himself sharing the front seat with the driver in a fist fight as the car careened across an intersection and hit a stop sign coming to a stop. During this my partner tried to broadcast on his radio which somehow ended up on another patrol district channel. They both spilled out of the car and the suspect managed to get both snaps undone on the holster during the fight (Safariland 070) with only the internal retention left. Fearing a gun grab he drew his pistol and continued to fight until cover arrived. It was a fresh stolen that had not been reported yet.

My partner never rolled his eyes at me again when I always put us out on traffic stops. He's lucky that he didn't end up on our memorial wall.

OldCurlyWolf
05-16-2011, 22:16
if you want a real hoot google JSandi and read the first search result.
:rofl::rofl:

That is hilarious.

Mayhem like Me
05-17-2011, 07:24
I always suspected he had a case of .............Sandi... mangina...

doneroman
05-17-2011, 08:11
"...unsupported conclusions..." Yeah, a LEO that has been shot at while on duty, injured with combatant gunfire, or killed in the line of duty are scenarios with unsupported conclusions. WTF are you smoking and why are you posting this troll crap here?


In truth, fatalities are down across the board for LEOs and non-LEOs: medical technology and med. education has jumped light years from your 1974 example of just fatalities. The stats to look at are attempted homicides and deadly assault , which have quadrupled since 1954, across the board of LEOs and non-LEOs alike.

"Media hype" that supports the LE community gets your dander up, eh? Career bad guys are on duty 24 hrs a day, LEOs are on duty 8-12 hrs a day keeping them in check. If YOU want to be on duty 24 hrs a day protecting your family because you don't like cops, go to it. Good luck.

Coating your anti-LEO sentiment with a lightly veiled comment about LE heroism is cowardly.








Some police advocates have drawn unsupported conclusions from this rash of attacks, claiming*that they are tied to rising anti-police sentiment, anti-government protest, or a lack of adequate gun control laws.



In truth, on-the-job police fatalities have dropped nearly 50 percent during the last 20 years, even as the total number of cops has doubled. According to the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorial Fund, 279 cops were killed on the job in 1974, the worst year on record.

Mayhem like Me
05-17-2011, 08:39
he also says he's a cop!

doneroman
05-17-2011, 08:49
Jsandi claims to be a cop?!



he also says he's a cop!

Dragoon44
05-17-2011, 08:57
NOt just a cop, a SWAT team member and police sniper!

doneroman
05-17-2011, 09:19
Karate, voo-doo, and mall ninja too?




NOt just a cop, a SWAT team member and police sniper!

4949shooter
05-17-2011, 14:13
I worked with one partner for about a year. He was a better driver and I was better using the MDT and digging up information. He would roll his eyes whenever I put us out over the radio for traffic stops (all the time).

One week I was away on annual leave and he stopped a suspicious car with out of province plates (from Washington state) on a quiet residential street. He had not put himself out on a traffic stop. When he approached the car he recognized the driver as one of our local mutants and opened the driver door. The driver put the car in reverse and the constable found himself sharing the front seat with the driver in a fist fight as the car careened across an intersection and hit a stop sign coming to a stop. During this my partner tried to broadcast on his radio which somehow ended up on another patrol district channel. They both spilled out of the car and the suspect managed to get both snaps undone on the holster during the fight (Safariland 070) with only the internal retention left. Fearing a gun grab he drew his pistol and continued to fight until cover arrived. It was a fresh stolen that had not been reported yet.

My partner never rolled his eyes at me again when I always put us out on traffic stops. He's lucky that he didn't end up on our memorial wall.

Wow that was a close one for your partner.

Panzergrenadier1979
05-17-2011, 14:25
.........they both spilled out of the car and the suspect managed to get both snaps undone on the holster during the fight (Safariland 070) with only the internal retention left. Fearing a gun grab he drew his pistol and continued to fight until cover arrived. It was a fresh stolen that had not been reported yet.


Yikes! That's my duty holster. :shocked: