Opinions on the Dan Wesson Valor... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Nakanokalronin
02-09-2011, 14:07
I have a brand new current production 5" SS Valor coming to my local FFL after reading reviews on it.

Forged frame and slide, match barrel and bushing, tool steel sear, hammer and disconnector, Heinie tritium sights, Ed Brown thumb safety,slide stop and beavertail and slim-line grips. I'll probably change the slim-lines and bushings for a regular set of grips. Everything else is surely staying put.

So who owns or has owned a DW Valor? Accuracy,reliability, part wear and anything else you can think of would be appreciated. http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif

Not my pistol but its exactly what I'm getting
http://cheaperthandirt.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/DanWessonValor.jpg


I went with this over a TRP since it has 25lpi on the front strap instead of 20lpi and a normal 70 series setup instead of a 9mm/38super firing pin. There is also the fact that it has zero MIM and a clean slide. I don't mind FCS but I have enough models with them already. Never had an MIM part break but if its the same price without it then why not?

The Valor and TRP are the max I will spend on a 1911 and with the amount of care given to the Valor I really question why companies charge more except in the case or bevel/melt treatments and finishes but even then its not worth twice the price.

According to CZ themselves, there are zero MIM parts: http://cz-usa.com/press-releases/34/

Quack
02-09-2011, 14:13
Good gun, but if you want it in black, buy a different gun for the price they are going for.

BTW, the only Ed Brown part is the grip safety.

bac1023
02-09-2011, 14:21
They were good deals when I got mine in 2008. I got it for $1200 or so.


http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr97/briancut1023/000_2214.jpg



Nowadays, I feel the stainless models are priced about right for what they are, but certainly not values. The black finished models are ridiculously overpriced, in my opinion. I'm not real fond of Dan Wesson's attempt to move upmarket by mostly just jacking their prices through the roof.

I won't be buying another.

tx787
02-09-2011, 14:25
Big mistake opening this thread, now I want one! In all seriousness the next 1911 I get will be at that price range and I'm 99% sure it'll be a DW Valor. It's unfortunate their prices have gone up but unless there was something equal or better for less that's the free market economy for ya.

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 14:30
I would also choose the Valor over the TRP if I was buying a production 1911 in that pricerange. Clean slide, no FCS, and the FS checkering feels much better than the 20LPI SA uses on the TRP IMHO. Good choice, you won't be disappointed. :thumbsup:

The only downside is that it doesn't say TACTICAL on it. :supergrin:

tx787
02-09-2011, 14:37
The only downside is that it doesn't say TACTICAL on it. :supergrin:

But if it doesn't say TACTICAL or OPERATOR how will I be able to able use it for defense of my local mall?

bac1023
02-09-2011, 14:39
Big mistake opening this thread, now I want one! In all seriousness the next 1911 I get will be at that price range and I'm 99% sure it'll be a DW Valor. It's unfortunate their prices have gone up but unless there was something equal or better for less that's the free market economy for ya.

The black Valor is right in the entry level Les Baer price range. There lies the problem.

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 14:42
But if it doesn't say TACTICAL or OPERATOR how will I be able to able use it for defense of my local mall?

Here is a good starting point...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bvlin/MallNinja.jpg

Quack
02-09-2011, 14:43
The black Valor is right in the entry level Les Baer price range. There lies the problem.

no, the problem is if you buy a Baer, you won't get a COTEP membership :animlol:

Quack
02-09-2011, 14:44
Here is a good starting point...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bvlin/MallNinja.jpg

Hey, that's lawdog....

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 14:46
no, the problem is if you buy a Baer, you won't get a COTEP membership :animlol:

It's actually the COTEP Kool-Aid that makes $1,900 for a Duty Coat Valor seem reasonable...

http://www.x-entertainment.com/pics/kool1.jpg

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 14:48
Hey, that's lawdog....

I think you're right...

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/35953_1541306648592_1112704157_31644870_5006668_n.jpg

Nakanokalronin
02-09-2011, 14:50
The black Valor is right in the entry level Les Baer price range. There lies the problem.

That is why I went with the stainless model. I like it better actually and already have a set of grips in mind from Cylinder & Slide to be put on when it arrives.

Whatcha think about these?

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/269/269332.jpg

I don't care for smooth or rubber grips. Wood with checkering is my choice but this gives it a little different character than the standard double diamond yet still provides traction.

Ruggles
02-09-2011, 14:57
Here is a good starting point...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bvlin/MallNinja.jpg

When my rapping career takes off this bad mofo is gonna be my bodyguard. Not sure when 40 year old white guy rap is gonna hit with the masses but I think soon. :supergrin:

Dude seems to be packin some extra body armor around the mid section.

Sarge43
02-09-2011, 14:58
I own five different DW's including a 2009 Valor. It is a wonderful weapon and the 2010 model has the improvements of tool steel inner workings which you mentioned. I can find nothing bad to say about the Valor at all. It is a strong contender and deserves consideration in with other bigger names, in my opinion. I will tell you that a few have cited displeasure with the level of finish on the stainless version - they say it scratches easily and shows wear. I cannot comment on that either way as I don't own the new stainless. I own a 2010 VBOB with the new Duty Treat (black) and can tell you that it is very tough and despite being used in the shop, shot and carried regularly, it shows NO signs of wear or use at all. It is a very tough treatment.
Check around on prices for yourself as many like to throw around the MSRP which is totally out of line with what you can find one for with a little searching.
Whatever your choice, good luck!
Sarge

tx787
02-09-2011, 15:09
The black Valor is right in the entry level Les Baer price range. There lies the problem.

Yeah I see the problem there. Looking at the glass half full, the usual conundrum of black or ss is an easy choice with this gun.

Wade-19
02-09-2011, 15:21
no, the problem is if you buy a Baer, you won't get a COTEP membership :animlol:

But, you will get a sweet cardboard box to store it in !!!! :tongueout:

bac1023
02-09-2011, 16:06
no, the problem is if you buy a Baer, you won't get a COTEP membership :animlol:

:animlol:

bac1023
02-09-2011, 16:07
That is why I went with the stainless model. I like it better actually and already have a set of grips in mind from Cylinder & Slide to be put on when it arrives.

Whatcha think about these?

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/269/269332.jpg

I don't care for smooth or rubber grips. Wood with checkering is my choice but this gives it a little different character than the standard double diamond yet still provides traction.

They would look great on it. :)

glock2740
02-09-2011, 17:00
That is why I went with the stainless model. I like it better actually and already have a set of grips in mind from Cylinder & Slide to be put on when it arrives.

Whatcha think about these?

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/269/269332.jpg

I don't care for smooth or rubber grips. Wood with checkering is my choice but this gives it a little different character than the standard double diamond yet still provides traction.
Those will look great on a SS Valor. I like the Valor's plain clean look. Black or stainless.

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 17:01
Those are pretty cool looking. Definitely different and something you don't see everyday.

Mayhem like Me
02-09-2011, 17:09
Here is a good starting point...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v72/bvlin/MallNinja.jpg

Somewhere a Mall is missing it's Ninja

Rinspeed
02-09-2011, 17:14
They were good deals when I got mine in 2008. I got it for $1200 or so.

Nowadays, I feel the stainless models are priced about right for what they are, but certainly not values. The black finished models are ridiculously overpriced, in my opinion. I'm not real fond of Dan Wesson's attempt to move upmarket by mostly just jacking their prices through the roof.

I won't be buying another.





This, at $1500-1600 the Valor is way out of it's league.

Nubbins
02-09-2011, 17:32
Sarge43
Check around on prices for yourself as many like to throw around the MSRP which is totally out of line with what you can find one for with a little searching.
Whatever your choice, good luck!
Sarge

There are deals out there, the cheapest I have seen listed when I was looking for the DT was $1735 I payed less than that but I lucked into a deal.
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz145/kirk22-250/Guns/DSC_0846-1.jpg?t=1297294164
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz145/kirk22-250/Guns/DSC_0826.jpg?t=1297294240

Nakanokalronin
02-09-2011, 17:40
This, at $1500-1600 the Valor is way out of it's league.


I got mine for under $1400 shipped. Even at $1500 its in the ball park with other guns that still use MIM parts so I feel it is still a good deal. Weather MIM parts are made well or not, hardened tool steel always costs more.

ETA: Ordered those grips, regular SS bushings and some SS screws. Bushings will defiantly need changing but I'm not sure if I want to keep the screws black or change to stainless. The grips are made from Dymondwood and seems to be some good stuff: http://www.rutply.com/products/dymondwood.html

glock2740
02-09-2011, 17:42
There are deals out there, the cheapest I have seen listed when I was looking for the DT was $1735 I payed less than that but I lucked into a deal.
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz145/kirk22-250/Guns/DSC_0846-1.jpg?t=1297294164
http://i822.photobucket.com/albums/zz145/kirk22-250/Guns/DSC_0826.jpg?t=1297294240
Good looking gun. :thumbsup:

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 17:46
As an actual owner of a 2010 Valor, 2010 VBOB, and an actual owner of several of the other "semi customs" (no such thing, just a made up term), and have actually worked on them and others....

The Valor line is not what the DW line used to be. The new guns are MUCH better. The parts are better with all tool steel FCG and no MIM. The fitment and blending is much better.

Each of the Valor line I have personally seen showed correct fitment of the barrel, and actual fitment of the sear, hammer, and disco. Even the sear spring was prep'ed.

At the risk of being called a idiot, koolaid drinker, or other terms. I will say that several gunsmiths (plural) have said the same thing. And a finisher recently posted that of all the guns he sees daily, including "semi customs" that the DW Valors is the most constantly well fitted guns.


Either of the SS Valor or SS VBOB will sell for 1,400 and $1,500 respectively. I can think of no gun that can compare to the SS VBOB anywhere near it's 15 bill price.

I would suggest you look at the gun yourself and see if you like it, and then ask people you trust and that KNOW what to look for in a 1911. Preferably one that is a smith and has actually seen a 2010 Valor.

Alan

Nubbins
02-09-2011, 17:52
I guess I should add that I love this pistol. With 1200+ rounds I had only one hiccup my slide failed to lock back on my second mag but it never happened again.
My only complaint would be I dont care for the new TS I prefer the feel of the Ed Brown tactical

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 17:54
Actually I can think of zero guns in any of the Valor price range that have the same (or near) spec's.

Any one know who sells a BOB'ed Commander with all tool steel FCG, no mim, night sights for 1,500? Or one with a Melonite type finish for $1,800?? I can't.


And I have 5k or so rounds through each of the guns. (I'd have to check the log to be exact.)
Zero malfunctions with either guns, other than when I ran the VBOB over 1k of lead reloads with out cleaning and it started to FTRB. But man, was it filthy!

Zero parts breakage. Zero issues.

asiparks
02-09-2011, 18:03
As an actual owner of a 2010 Valor, 2010 VBOB, and an actual owner of several of the other "semi customs" (no such thing, just a made up term), and have actually worked on them and others....

The Valor line is not what the DW line used to be. The new guns are MUCH better. The parts are better with all tool steel FCG and no MIM. The fitment and blending is much better.

Each of the Valor line I have personally seen showed correct fitment of the barrel, and actual fitment of the sear, hammer, and disco. Even the sear spring was prep'ed.

At the risk of being called a idiot, koolaid drinker, or other terms. I will say that several gunsmiths (plural) have said the same thing. And a finisher recently posted that of all the guns he sees daily, including "semi customs" that the DW Valors is the most constantly well fitted guns.


Either of the SS Valor or SS VBOB will sell for 1,400 and $1,500 respectively. I can think of no gun that can compare to the SS VBOB anywhere near it's 15 bill price.

I would suggest you look at the gun yourself and see if you like it, and then ask people you trust and that KNOW what to look for in a 1911. Preferably one that is a smith and has actually seen a 2010 Valor.

Alan

^ this ^

I think the price increase on the DW's is commensurate with improvements made to the pistol over the past years. My 06 CBOB was $839 and, given the quality of assembly, it was ridiculously underpriced relative to similarly specc'ed Kimbers and Springfields.

I haven't seen anybody objectively illustrate how a Valor or VBOB is any way, component wise, or assembly wise, a lesser gun than an off the shelf Baer or Brown.
And DW does have a custom shop where they offer slightly more options than Baer...

The black finish is a costly upcharge, but sending a pistol to Coal Creek for the equivalent Melonite/Isonite treatment will cost you $200 + what, $100 shipping there and back?

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 18:10
Actually I can think of zero guns in any of the Valor price range that have the same (or near) spec's.

Any one know who sells a BOB'ed Commander with all tool steel FCG, no mim, night sights for 1,500? Or one with a Melonite type finish for $1,800?? I can't.


www.fusionfirearms.com













Sorry Al. Couldn't resist. :tongueout:

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 18:13
www.fusionfirearms.com













Sorry Al. Couldn't resist. :tongueout:

I KNEW....that was coming!!!:rofl:

:wavey:

Nakanokalronin
02-09-2011, 18:21
Found out the hammer AND the thumb safety is made from bar stock. If true then that's pretty damn impressive for its price when added with everything else. I'm getting pretty giddy waiting for it's arrival.

http://serve.mysmiley.net/jumping/jumping0045.gif

knedrgr
02-09-2011, 18:24
I think it's a great choice. Having seen a couple of older DW's and owning a 2010 DW CCO, I can say it's an improvement.

Sure the TRP is a nice option. But the Valor has tool steel FCG. Try to upgrade those in the TRP, and that's going to bring that up another 150-200.

bac1023
02-09-2011, 19:28
Either of the SS Valor or SS VBOB will sell for 1,400 and $1,500 respectively. I can think of no gun that can compare to the SS VBOB anywhere near it's 15 bill price.



I agree that the stainless model is priced right, but the black model is too high.

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 19:33
I agree that the stainless model is priced right, but the black model is too high.

I have thoughts on that both ways.... So I can't argue that point in good conscious. :wavey:

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 19:56
I have thoughts on that both ways.... So I can't argue that point in good conscious. :wavey:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrzuoDIOBrAvi6mCOsO5qGhaXx4RMDOr3rez8NB1tvQw2-C9jl

thecableguy
02-09-2011, 20:31
Hail Caesar I would love to read what you have to say. I am interested in a DW but I have to admit that I was a little put off by the price increase. I am not really a SS kind of guy. How would you or any one here compare then to let's say a LB in about the same price range? I want one of these bad.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1346/5115834288_37d81d9257_z.jpg
What would a fair price be for a vbob like that?

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 20:31
:rofl::rofl::rofl:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQrzuoDIOBrAvi6mCOsO5qGhaXx4RMDOr3rez8NB1tvQw2-C9jl

Come on partner, you know I ain't a single minded Luddite.

I meant;

12:00 noon. Good AL. " What are you going to do buy a SS model and send it off to be refinished? What is that going to cost ya? At least 200 at CC and at least a 100 bill in shipping ( the cheapest way I know of). And CC has had some negative press about quality. Plus it would likely void your warranty. Why not just get it from the factory finished, done right, and save yourself some headaches and keep the warranty for the same money."

1:00 PM. Bad AL. " You know from the factory the finish should cost less than it does. They are having them finished in mass, so the cost should be less. Buy the SS then have the finish you want applied after you change it up the gun the way you want it."

I can argue both ways and have changed my mind about it several times......sometimes hourly.:rofl:

Alan

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 20:53
Hail Caesar I would love to read what you have to say. I am interested in a DW but I have to admit that I was a little put off by the price increase. I am not really a SS kind of guy. How would you or any one here compare then to let's say a LB in about the same price range? I want one of these bad.
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1346/5115834288_37d81d9257_z.jpg
What would a fair price be for a vbob like that?

The DW have better internal parts. (Hiding in basement, for the bombs going to be lobed.) But how much better is not a big deal. Both are good. It's a toss up to which guns guts are better fitted. I have seen examples of either being better depending on a one gun basis.

The Baer has a better barrel, and is very hard fitted. How much more accurate is the Baer going to be........very slightly. More like .25 of a inch at 25 yards to be realistic ( yes I have Ransom Rested them). Unless you are on the Olympic shooting Team.....don't worry about it.

The Baer has a bushing that is stupid tight. You will need a wrench to remove it. The Valor line is removable by hand if you are a strong guy. Both are too tight for me in a gun. I never understood the need to have a bushing so tight you need to have a wrench and take the gun out of battery.:upeyes:
But if you like that you can have a bushing fit like a Baer on a Valor for under $50.

Both slide to frame fitment is very,very tight.....not that that really means much.

Both guns show good amounts of hand fitting. Showing people with some skill put it together.

Baer does not make a Bobtail. So you are going to have to buy the Baer and then pay someone to BOB it for you at additional cost. Then you will have voided your Baer warranty.


Plus the Baer Coat is a spray on finish that will rub off with little use. The Duty Treatment is likely a Tennifer type and is bomb proof..almost. Think Glock.

So IMO the guns are very similar in quality, but built different...

Either is a great gun. But to build a Baer Commanche to the Spec's of a VBOB is going to cost you $2,300 at least, and then Les would hang up on you if you ever have an issue.

And then there is the issue of the Commander length slide guns having the slide travel of a Officer sized gun and you will have to spend another 100 dollars to get that fixed. I love 5 inch Baer's, but the smaller guns IMO have a extremely negative issue with this.


If Baer had a gun that SPec'ed exactly like a VBOB ( at a similar price) then it would be an interesting question. But as you would have to spend 500 to 600 more to build a Baer, I think the VBOB is a better value.

Again, all is my opinion.

Alan.

Rinspeed
02-09-2011, 21:04
The DW have better internal parts.




:rofl: :rofl:

bac1023
02-09-2011, 21:04
I have thoughts on that both ways.... So I can't argue that point in good conscious. :wavey:

Fair enough, my friend.

Of course, who I'm I to talk? I paid $1800 for a Kimber! ;)

bac1023
02-09-2011, 21:06
I am not really a SS kind of guy.

All Valors are stainless steel.

thecableguy
02-09-2011, 21:12
All Valors are stainless steel.

Yeah I know Brian I am more interested in a vbob

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 21:13
Fair enough, my friend.


Yeah, that is a hard argument to make. Each way there is good points to be made.

All Valors are stainless steel.

Yes, both the slide and frame are SS on all the DW line. With the exception of the CCO and Guardian models which have a alloy frame and SS slide.

:rofl: :rofl:

Of all I wrote that is the only thing you dispute? I guess that is really not too bad.:rofl:

HAIL CAESAR
02-09-2011, 21:25
:rofl: :rofl:

And...

But it is still my opinion after working on 1911's for years. Actually seeing both Baer's and 2010 Valor's, working on them, and owning them. Plus I have heard the same from (real:rofl:) gunsmiths.

Some other parts are better to on a DW as bar stock is almost always better than cast. But it is really a mute point as both are very good.

And the DW Commanders are made to correct specs and does not suffer from short slide travel as do the non Government Baer's.

Baer's do get brownie points for pic posting on the internet and bragging rights to the "brand name counts for showing off" groups. Which is valid to some folks, as I know it is to my wife and her $800 Coach purses.

Hokie1911
02-09-2011, 22:50
Come on partner, you know I ain't a single minded Luddite.

I can argue both ways and have changed my mind about it several times......sometimes hourly.:rofl:

Alan

You know I love your VBOB. Just giving you a hard time, my friend. :supergrin:

Sarge43
02-09-2011, 23:15
We went from Valors to VBOB's? NOW we're talkin'! I love my VBOB - I can't imagine finding a pistol that is much better than this thing is. Say what you want, call in the Kookaid man if you will, but THIS thing is utterly reliable, more accurate than I am capable of taking advantage of, AND is beautiful. What more can you want?
Sarge
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4557.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4558.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4566.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4568.jpg

thecableguy
02-09-2011, 23:37
We went from Valors to VBOB's? NOW we're talkin'! I love my VBOB - I can't imagine finding a pistol that is much better than this thing is. Say what you want, call in the Kookaid man if you will, but THIS thing is utterly reliable, more accurate than I am capable of taking advantage of, AND is beautiful. What more can you want?
Sarge
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4557.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4558.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4566.jpg
http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh281/sarge43_pics/grips%202/IMG_4568.jpg

Sarge that thing is swwwwweeeet!! I might get a Vbobm in the future.
Sorry op didn't mean to highjack the thread. I was just curious about the Vbob.

Wade-19
02-09-2011, 23:41
Yep, pass me the KoolAid !! In 2009 , I shot a CBOB and a KC side by side. I had the money to buy the one I wanted . I did not see a $1500 difference in the way "I" shot the guns , so I bought the CBOB. When the 2010 VBOBs came out , I picked one up in stainless , then sent it to Severns custom for HH, EGW Monogram bushing , flush cut and crown the barrel, and flush cut the slide stop. With all this I still have $600 less invested in it than a comparable EB
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/045d4f0d.jpg
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/597bfc92.jpg

I liked the VBOB so much , I talked DW into building me one in 9mm.
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/93d863f8.jpg

Next, I heard Chuck Rogers was going to do a run of golf ball, so I needed a gun with a smooth front strap. Enter the Heritage !
http://i823.photobucket.com/albums/zz153/Wade-19/99bafce5.jpg

Chuck said he was impressed with the quality and fit of the DWs he has seen lately . If it's good enough for Chuck, it's good enough for me !

youngAR
02-10-2011, 00:17
thecableguy, you're more than welcome to shoot my Valor to feel the GREAT quality of DW. I'm right down the road from you ;)

venenoindy
02-10-2011, 01:26
I recently got some help from a member of one of the 1911 forums to get my Valor, I consider to be very lucky since I got my SS for $1250.00 deliver. I had a few 1911's and the Valor is by far the best I ever had.

knedrgr
02-10-2011, 07:01
^^ Great find on that SS Valor!

thecableguy
02-10-2011, 07:52
thecableguy, you're more than welcome to shoot my Valor to feel the GREAT quality of DW. I'm right down the road from you ;)

Thanks YoungAr I might just take you up on that offer one of these days.

Rinspeed
02-10-2011, 08:55
Of all I wrote that is the only thing you dispute? I guess that is really not too bad.:rofl:




I agree. :wavey:

lawdog734
02-10-2011, 09:25
After handling knedrgr's cco I would love to pick one up If i found a decent price

Quack
02-10-2011, 09:28
After handling knedrgr's cco I would love to pick one up UFO found a decent price

UFO? Must be on an iPhone...

Hokie1911
02-10-2011, 09:30
UFO? Must be on an iPhone...

Nah, probably just the latest name for most recent Android platform as they have probably used up all the bakery terms.

lawdog734
02-10-2011, 09:38
UFO? Must be on an iPhone...

You're right, fixed

Quack
02-10-2011, 09:41
you're right, fixed

verified

Hokie1911
02-10-2011, 09:57
verified

:rofl:

knedrgr
02-10-2011, 10:22
After handling knedrgr's cco I would love to pick one up If i found a decent price

I'll trade ya for the No Name Guncrafter

Quack
02-10-2011, 10:26
I'll trade ya for the No Name Guncrafter

for the Sig RCS

knedrgr
02-10-2011, 10:27
for the Sig RCS

negative ghost rider... :rofl:

Nakanokalronin
02-10-2011, 12:03
I recently got some help from a member of one of the 1911 forums to get my Valor, I consider to be very lucky since I got my SS for $1250.00 deliver. I had a few 1911's and the Valor is by far the best I ever had.

Thats a pretty good deal. What year was it manufactured?

venenoindy
02-10-2011, 12:32
2010 as I was told by the GS were a got it from they acquired the inventory from an other dealer as they not ever carry DW, that is why the price was set so low and also I don't think they did their home work about current market price.

Nakanokalronin
02-10-2011, 12:48
2010 as I was told by the GS were a got it from they acquired the inventory from an other dealer as they not ever carry DW, that is why the price was set so low and also I don't think they did their home work about current market price.

Hey its win-win for you. I wish my local shop would not know the value of certain pistols but most of the time they keep up with current production models and prices on a regular basis. This has forced me to shop at Bud's or GB quite regularly.

youngAR
02-10-2011, 21:42
For those that care, DW and CZ-USA offers a LE/MIL discount.

tyler2you
02-10-2011, 22:22
Personally, I think the Heritage is the better deal over the Valor. I've got both, and don't think the Valor warrants the almost $400 price premium (stainless gun). The Valor has checkering on the front strap whereas the Heritage doesn't. But, the Heritage has serrations on the top of the slide and the Valor doesn't.

TrueGunNut
02-10-2011, 23:48
It has been about one year since I got my black DW valor for ~$1250. I love it! My favorite pistol by far! I run wilson combat 47d and never had any issues. I thought the factory mags it came with sucked (range mags only). If you can buy one for $12-1400 I would say it is the best 1911 in that range with no MIM parts.

Here she is wearing ed brown rosewoods!!! :

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5852/photo2vb.jpg

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 06:37
Personally, I think the Heritage is the better deal over the Valor. I've got both, and don't think the Valor warrants the almost $400 price premium (stainless gun). The Valor has checkering on the front strap whereas the Heritage doesn't. But, the Heritage has serrations on the top of the slide and the Valor doesn't.

Valor = forged frame.
Heritage = casted frame.

Wade-19
02-11-2011, 06:43
Valor = forged frame.
Heritage = casted frame.

2010 and up Heritage is also forged .

tyler2you
02-11-2011, 13:26
2010 and up Heritage is also forged .

What he said.:agree:

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 13:34
I guess it comes down to a matter of personal preference. Something unique vs value. I like the Heritage a lot and like Al and Wade said, it makes a great base to improve on, however, you are "prettying up" a production gun with cosmetic changes and that puts you into Baer/Brown/SACS price, which is going to be a much better gun for the same money, albeit....not as unique as say a custom Heritage. To each his own, that's what makes the 1911 platform so great.

Rinspeed
02-11-2011, 13:50
2010 and up Heritage is also forged .




Unverified.

Wade-19
02-11-2011, 15:43
Unverified.

Re-submit

tyler2you
02-11-2011, 18:33
Unverified.

Are you saying that you doubt the accuracy of the company's information:

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-45-heritage/

Frame: Forged Stainless Steel

If that's the case, there's lots of unverified info out there . . .

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 18:48
I guess it comes down to a matter of personal preference. Something unique vs value. I like the Heritage a lot and like Al and Wade said, it makes a great base to improve on, however, you are "prettying up" a production gun with cosmetic changes and that puts you into Baer/Brown/SACS price, which is going to be a much better gun for the same money, albeit....not as unique as say a custom Heritage. To each his own, that's what makes the 1911 platform so great.

So how would you classify the TRS, KC, and Pro, just to name a few, are non-production guns? All of those are production guns with specs. So you call them up to change a few specs and that makes it a "semi-custom." wow. It's still a production gun "prettied up" to your liking. You can also call up DW and ask for similar changes to their guns. :dunno: hummm i don't see the differences.

Sure SACS will build you a SA 1911 using other parts, so that puts them in another league. Try to get Bear to do that and see what happens :whistling:

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 18:58
Are you saying that you doubt the accuracy of the company's information:

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-45-heritage/

Frame: Forged Stainless Steel

If that's the case, there's lots of unverified info out there . . .

CZ doesn't have the best track record of posting correct info.

HAIL CAESAR
02-11-2011, 19:16
CZ doesn't have the best track record of posting correct info.

Ain't that the truth. The site is a mess.

But Keith said they were forged.

tyler2you
02-11-2011, 19:17
CZ doesn't have the best track record of posting correct info.

If that were the case in this instance, I'd say it would be a pretty serious and purposeful misrepresentation.

Wade-19
02-11-2011, 19:19
Ain't that the truth. The site is a mess.

But Keith said they were forged.

Told me the same thing when I was talking to him about building my 9mm VBOB.

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 19:28
So how would you classify the TRS, KC, and Pro, just to name a few, are non-production guns? All of those are production guns with specs. So you call them up to change a few specs and that makes it a "semi-custom." wow. It's still a production gun "prettied up" to your liking. You can also call up DW and ask for similar changes to their guns. :dunno: hummm i don't see the differences.

Sure SACS will build you a SA 1911 using other parts, so that puts them in another league. Try to get Bear to do that and see what happens :whistling:

You're joking right? :whistling:

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 20:10
If that were the case in this instance, I'd say it would be a pretty serious and purposeful misrepresentation.

Ain't that the truth. The site is a mess.

But Keith said they were forged.

Yup. Not saying the 2010 aren't forged, just the older Heritage.

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 20:54
You're joking right? :whistling:

Nope. Unless I'm missing something.

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 20:57
I didn't make up the terminology. Call Les and tell him that his guns are "production" with a few options and let me know his response if he doesn't hang up on you first. :thumbsup:

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 21:40
Yeah, that's not going to happen cause I don't care for his 1911s. Personally, I think they're FUGLY. I'm sure they're great shooters, just don't care for the looks.

And I'm sure he's more than accommodating to ANY request on that "semi-custom" build.

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 21:50
Yeah, that's not going to happen cause I don't care for his 1911s. Personally, I think they're FUGLY. I'm sure they're great shooters, just don't care for the looks.

And I'm sure he's more than accommodating to ANY request on that "semi-custom" build.

Call SACS and ask them for a naked slide and let me know what that say. :rofl:

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 21:57
Touché.

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 22:07
Touché.

It's just splitting hairs really. Every shop has things they do and don't do. :supergrin:

Wade-19
02-11-2011, 22:09
Yup. Not saying the 2010 aren't forged, just the older Heritage.

My post said 2010 and up .

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 22:15
My post said 2010 and up .

VERIFIED :rofl:

http://glocktalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=16855987&postcount=77

knedrgr
02-11-2011, 22:17
My post said 2010 and up .

Verified

Rinspeed
02-11-2011, 22:40
Are you saying that you doubt the accuracy of the company's information:

http://cz-usa.com/products/view/dan-wesson-rz-45-heritage/

Frame: Forged Stainless Steel

If that's the case, there's lots of unverified info out there . . .




I heard it right from a well known smiths mouth that the Heritage uses a MIM slide and frame. :dunno:

Hokie1911
02-11-2011, 22:54
I heard it right from a well known smiths mouth that the Heritage uses a MIM slide and frame. :dunno:

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Cobra64
02-13-2011, 17:10
I heard it right from a well known smiths mouth that the Heritage uses a MIM slide and frame. :dunno:

... and an aluminum alloy MIM barrel.

tyler2you
02-13-2011, 20:25
... and an aluminum alloy MIM barrel.

And the fire control parts are made out of lemonade and gumdrops :upeyes:

HAIL CAESAR
02-13-2011, 20:53
And the fire control parts are made out of lemonade and gumdrops :upeyes:

Tyler, just so you know what is going on........

A year or so ago a so called" master Gunsmith" said he knew, and was backed up by a industry expert, that Kimber slides, frames, and barrels were MIM.

Needless to say it's been an ongoing joke since then.

Hokie1911
02-13-2011, 20:58
Tyler, just so you know what is going on........

A year or so ago a so called" master Gunsmith" said he knew, and was backed up by a industry expert, that Kimber slides, frames, and barrels were MIM.

Needless to say it's been an ongoing joke since then.

So it doesn't involve gnomes, fairies, and pixiedust? Damn.

Haven't heard much from JC lately btw. :whistling:

Cobra64
02-13-2011, 21:54
And the fire control parts are made out of lemonade and gumdrops :upeyes:



Yer right! Probably better than all this funky steel stuff in my stainless steel Sigs.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P1000554-PICASSA.jpg





Should have gone with aluminum MIM barrel instead of a Bar-Sto stainless competition in this 229ST.

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P229/P1000610.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c2/Davis1950/Weapons/Sig%20Sauer%20Guns/Marks%20Sigs/P229/P1000608.jpg

Cobra64
02-13-2011, 21:57
Tyler, just so you know what is going on........

A year or so ago a so called" master Gunsmith" said he knew, and was backed up by a industry expert, that Kimber slides, frames, and barrels were MIM.

Needless to say it's been an ongoing joke since then.

:rofl:

Yeah, ole tyler, with 82 posts, hasn't been too engaged around here in the last 7 years or so. :dunno:

Cobra64
02-13-2011, 21:59
So it doesn't involve gnomes, fairies, and pixiedust? Damn.

Haven't heard much from JC lately btw. :whistling:

Who's "JC?"

Is he a former Mimber employee now working in Exeter? :rofl:

Hokie1911
02-13-2011, 22:00
Who's "JC?"

Is he a former Mimber employee now working in Exeter? :rofl:

Joe Chambers. Master pistolsmith. :supergrin:

tyler2you
02-13-2011, 22:04
Tyler, just so you know what is going on........

A year or so ago a so called" master Gunsmith" said he knew, and was backed up by a industry expert, that Kimber slides, frames, and barrels were MIM.

Needless to say it's been an ongoing joke since then.

Yep, I got the feeling that the sarcasm was rather thick . . .

tyler2you
02-13-2011, 22:09
:rofl:

Yeah, ole tyler, with 82 posts, hasn't been too engaged around here in the last 7 years or so. :dunno:

Hey, I resemble that remark.

I joined up way back when because this seemed to be the place to talk about Kahrs which was what I was down with in 2004.

Spent the interim on Arfcom and Falfiles and now that I've refound my respect for the 1911, I'm back. :tongueout:

And I'm sure with over 15K posts since 2007, every one of those has been profound.

Hokie1911
02-13-2011, 22:15
"Just when I thought I was out....they pulled me back in..."

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/13/13951013_37c5cfc7b8.jpg

asiparks
02-13-2011, 22:33
Joe Chambers. Master pistolsmith. :supergrin:

Alive and well on, ironically, the Louder than words (www.louderthanwords.us) forum

Hokie1911
02-13-2011, 22:37
Alive and well on, ironically, the Louder than words (www.louderthanwords.us) forum

:faint:

Nickpisp
02-13-2011, 22:39
Alive and well on, ironically, the Louder than words (www.louderthanwords.us) forum

Still on 1911forum quite a bit too...

Quack
02-13-2011, 23:01
Tyler, are you stalking me? :animlol:

Rinspeed
02-14-2011, 08:40
Alive and well on, ironically, the Louder than words (www.louderthanwords.us) forum




He's stuck his foot in his mouth there a couple times. :rofl:

HAIL CAESAR
02-14-2011, 10:16
Still on 1911forum quite a bit too...

In all fairness to Joe, he does answer all questions he can and helps folks out.
some just use these forums as a free advertisement platform to hawk wares and drum up business, tell people how stupid they are, accuse everyone of plagiarism, and cut other smiths work.

Atleast Joe tries to be helpful.

HAIL CAESAR
02-14-2011, 10:30
Sorry, dupe post.

asiparks
02-14-2011, 11:41
In all fairness to Joe, he does answer all questions he can and helps folks out.
some just use these forums as a free advertisement platform to hawk wares and drum up business, tell people how stupid they are, accuse everyone of plagiarism, and cut other smiths work.

Atleast Joe tries to be helpful.

anyone particular in mind there....:whistling:

While Joe tries to be helpful, his information is sometimes misleading and it somewhat undermines his efforts to establish himself as a credible gunsmith.

Rinspeed
02-14-2011, 11:53
anyone particular in mind there....:whistling:






:dunno: :whistling:

HAIL CAESAR
02-14-2011, 12:07
While Joe tries to be helpful, his information is sometimes misleading and it somewhat undermines his efforts to establish himself as a credible gunsmith.

I see that could be very true.......but you have to give him an A for effort.

tyler2you
02-14-2011, 17:28
Tyler, are you stalking me? :animlol:

Not knowingly, but does appear we have some similar interests and predelections :cool:

You're not from Missouri are you?

Quack
02-14-2011, 18:18
Not knowingly, but does appear we have some similar interests and predelections :cool:

You're not from Missouri are you?

Yes, that's my hometown. Grew up in Chesterfield.

tyler2you
02-14-2011, 18:46
Yes, that's my hometown. Grew up in Chesterfield.

Other side of the state for me. Neosho (Joplin/Springfield area). College in Columbia, but no desire to go back. I've got a brother that lives in St. Charles as well.

Must be a "show-me" thing:cool:

Hokie1911
02-14-2011, 18:47
Must be a "show-me" thing:cool:

Dude, be careful what you ask for. Quack will "show you" and you will never be the same again. :crying:

tyler2you
02-14-2011, 18:49
Dude, be careful what you ask for. Quack will "show you" and you will never be the same again. :crying:

Hopefully nothing that will involve gouging out of the eyeballs from the horror . . :shocked:

Quack
02-14-2011, 18:50
ah, cool. I'll be teaching classes out there (office in O' Fallon) once my lab is up and running.

:animlol: @ Hokie

Quack
02-14-2011, 19:21
Hopefully nothing that will involve gouging out of the eyeballs from the horror . . :shocked:

just say the word, and i'll send it for Verification :rofl:

GVFlyer
02-14-2011, 19:50
I thought the Valor was a good buy at the <$1300 that I paid for mine, but I don't think I'd buy one at the present price point.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/Valor-3.jpg?t=1297734478

Hokie1911
02-14-2011, 19:53
just say the word, and i'll send it for Verification :rofl:

(don't do it, bro)

Hokie1911
02-14-2011, 19:53
I thought the Valor was a good buy at the <$1300 that I paid for mine, but I don't think I'd buy one at the present price point.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq166/GVFlyer/xm813/Valor-3.jpg?t=1297734478

That looks great GV. :thumbsup:

GVFlyer
02-15-2011, 06:05
Thanks, Hokie!

sbmohr75
02-24-2011, 09:31
I want to get a Valor and like them the looks of both, with the slight edge to the black. However, I got no problems with the looks of the SS and saving $300. But these reports of the SS finish being weak and shoddy worry me. Is the SS Valor finish really that bad?

knedrgr
02-24-2011, 09:47
the finish is not bad on the SS Valor. Carbon Steel known to hold up better than SS.

Agent6-3/8
02-24-2011, 10:17
I want to get a Valor and like them the looks of both, with the slight edge to the black. However, I got no problems with the looks of the SS and saving $300. But these reports of the SS finish being weak and shoddy worry me. Is the SS Valor finish really that bad?

Stainless steel with show scratches easier than most finishes on carbon steel. Its jsut the nature of the beast since stainless really doesn't have an applied finish like carbon steel. Stainless is left natural then bead blasted, sand blasted or polished. The advantage is that it is generally very easy to return to a like new condition. The toughest stainless "finish" I've seen is the pasification process S&W used on their 3rd generation autos.

cole
02-24-2011, 11:35
They were good deals when I got mine in 2008. I got it for $1200 or so.

Nowadays, I feel the stainless models are priced about right for what they are, but certainly not values. The black finished models are ridiculously overpriced, in my opinion. I'm not real fond of Dan Wesson's attempt to move upmarket by mostly just jacking their prices through the roof.

I won't be buying another.

This. Increased price, decreased value. God bless America.

sbmohr75
02-24-2011, 11:41
This. Increased price, decreased value. God bless America.

Weren't the price increases a result of an increase in quality by using better parts and fitting?

HAIL CAESAR
02-24-2011, 12:16
Weren't the price increases a result of an increase in quality by using better parts and fitting?

Yes, but it is easier to complain "their sticking it to us". Also from what I have seen told, that when they were selling CBOB's to dealers for 800'ish the profit were very, very small.
They decided to make a higher quality gun (which cost more) and actually try and make a profit. Wow, what a novel business strategy.

Hokie1911
02-24-2011, 12:30
Yes, but it is easier to complain "their sticking it to us". Also from what I have seen told, that when they were selling CBOB's to dealers for 800'ish the profit were very, very small.
They decided to make a higher quality gun (which cost more) and actually try and make a profit. Wow, what a novel business strategy.

What the hell were they thinking? Jeez. :whistling:

HAIL CAESAR
02-24-2011, 12:38
What the hell were they thinking? Jeez. :whistling:

I know, it's craziness!!

People have funny thoughts when it comes to business decisions. I am taking to a zippy on another forum that insist I have some financial gain in selling firearms to LEO for the actual cost to me. He thinks I have some devious master plan and am making Swiss bank deposits on selling gear at my actual cost.:rofl:

sbmohr75
02-24-2011, 13:08
Would you be at ease buying a SS Valor (as far as the finish is concerned)?

Nubbins
02-24-2011, 16:29
sbmohr75
Until HC reply's, here is a review of a Vbob by HC if you haven't read it yet http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=270748

HAIL CAESAR
02-24-2011, 18:30
sbmohr75
Until HC reply's, here is a review of a Vbob by HC if you haven't read it yet http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=270748

Howdy Nubbins!:wavey:

Actually I need to go back and update that tread with more/better/detailed pictures and measurements. Especially of the FCG and the hand fitting that is obvious on the gun. Plus I was still on the pain pills when I wrote that.:rofl:

Alan

bac1023
02-25-2011, 01:18
I certainly understand marketing. However, it all depends on what their image is to the consumer. Dan Wessons are not $1700-$1800 1911 to most people.

Quality has certainly gone up, but I'm not sure their marketing has gotten that message clearly to the people buying the guns. The Valor, for instance, has used a forged frame since its introduction.

HAIL CAESAR
02-25-2011, 01:33
I certainly understand marketing. However, it all depends on what their image is to the consumer. Dan Wessons are not $1700-$1800 1911 to most people.

Quality has certainly gone up, but I'm not sure their marketing has gotten that message clearly to the people buying the guns.

That I can definitely agree with. Poor advertising and an atrocious website makes things much worse on DW.

GVFlyer
02-25-2011, 01:55
I have no way of knowing, but I'm betting that their sales are flat since their outrageous price increases.

holesinpaper
02-25-2011, 02:30
I have no way of knowing, but I'm betting that their sales are flat since their outrageous price increases.

But with an increased price, they can sell fewer units and make the same revenue.

Then they can grow sales via.... marketing, and adding to their reputation for higher quality work.

And I wouldn't be surprised if they had a spike in sales prior to the price increase (if it was pre-announced), and that ate into future sales. So sales will be flat now, since demand is lower due to a sales rush in 09. Over time, sales will naturally pick up, as new customers enter the queue.

It's not too much different than the effect of the RE tax credit, or cash for clunkers. Those programs generated increased sales, while they ran, but drastically decreased sales afterwords.

Hokie1911
02-25-2011, 07:50
The COTEP boys won't care about higher prices. They will keep on buying because that's the ONLY pistol worth buying.











I kid, I kid. :tongueout:

Rinspeed
02-25-2011, 08:35
But with an increased price, they can sell fewer units and make the same revenue.



Not if you've raised the price because you're paying more for higher quality parts.

Nakanokalronin
02-25-2011, 16:08
Not if you've raised the price because you're paying more for higher quality parts.


I find that they upgraded their pistols and priced accordingly. Its their lack of advertising thats the problem. Kimber, SA, Ed Brown, Nighthawk, Wilson, etc all have ads in most gun rags and are shown all over the place. If DW where to increase their advertisements that mentioned all forged,tool steel and barstock with no MIM or cast then they would get more recognition.

When I decided to buy mine I just happened to click on the Dan Wesson section on one of the 1911 forums just to see what they offered and then only after research did I find out about their quality.

HAIL CAESAR
02-25-2011, 16:50
If DW had 2 full page color adds in EVERY gun rag, aka WC, LB, EB, Mimber, then they would have to add that to the price of the guns too. It's a catch 22._

Nakanokalronin
02-25-2011, 17:39
If DW had 2 full page color adds in EVERY gun rag, aka WC, LB, EB, Mimber, then they would have to add that to the price of the guns too. It's a catch 22._

Well they only need 1 page and they don't need to be in every gun magazine out there. Just a couple and people would take notice. Companies like Kimber and SA have taken over the ad scene with WC and the occasional NHC coming up second and third. Para and even Taurus can come up with ads so why not at least a magazine or two a month for DW? They don't have to advertise as much, just once in awhile which would not increase prices.

Nubbins
02-25-2011, 18:08
Howdy Nubbins!:wavey:

Actually I need to go back and update that tread with more/better/detailed pictures and measurements. Especially of the FCG and the hand fitting that is obvious on the gun. Plus I was still on the pain pills when I wrote that.:rofl:

Alan

Alan

I look forward to your update. I always appreciate when you and others write reviews.

Kirk

GunBugBit
04-11-2011, 13:54
They were good deals when I got mine in 2008. I got it for $1200 or so.

...

Nowadays, I feel the stainless models are priced about right for what they are, but certainly not values. The black finished models are ridiculously overpriced, in my opinion. I'm not real fond of Dan Wesson's attempt to move upmarket by mostly just jacking their prices through the roof.

I won't be buying another.
Both the black and the stainless Valors are as good as the Baers and Browns and Wilsons that are priced above $2,000.

Dave Severns, a highly respected pistolsmith, has done side-by-side testing of some of the premium 1911s, and the Valor not only held its own, it showed itself as superior in some areas.

If you can find a better 1911 at $1,900 than the new black Valor, and can show range reports and analysis of the innards, etc. to convince us you've found that better pistol at that price point, you will have my undivided attention.