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PhotoFeller
02-12-2011, 18:16
I want a short barrel, pistol grip 12ga pump to carry concealed for hiking and jaunts in the Everglades and while driving long trips:

How short can the barrel be legally?

How much does the Federal stamp cost for this type of weapon with, say, a 12" barrel?

Does anyone make custom scabbards with a shoulder strap or over-the-back carry sling? The scabbard would have to conceal the gun completely.

Who builds a factory gun of this description, or would it be a custom build?

uzimon
02-12-2011, 18:32
chop it yourself and save $, after you get the $200 tax stamp back of course. on a form 1

vafish
02-12-2011, 18:47
18" is as short as the barrel can be without the $200 tax stamp.

If you want to go pistol grip only there is the option of an AOW for only a $5 tax stamp.

PhotoFeller
02-12-2011, 21:18
18" is as short as the barrel can be without the $200 tax stamp.

If you want to go pistol grip only there is the option of an AOW for only a $5 tax stamp.

Sorry, but AOW isn't an abbreviation I'm familiar with. I sure like the sound of a $5 stamp. I want pistol grip only. What is the process to get the $5 stamp?

Who builds the gun I've described with a15" barrel? I'd like something similar to my Rem 870 quality wise.

Any thoughts on the scabbard?

Sorry to have so many questions. This is an area that I know nothing about and you guys are experts. Thanks.

uzimon
02-12-2011, 21:34
Sorry, but AOW isn't an abbreviation I'm familiar with. I sure like the sound of a $5 stamp. I want pistol grip only. What is the process to get the $5 stamp?

Who builds the gun I've described with a15" barrel? I'd like something similar to my Rem 870 quality wise.

Any thoughts on the scabbard?

Sorry to have so many questions. This is an area that I know nothing about and you guys are experts. Thanks.

aow is "any other weapon". if you take a shotgun that was never designed to have a shoulder stock, and chop the bbl, it can be designated as an aow. if you "make" (chop) it yourself, you still have to pay a $200 tax stamp. you can buy an aow, but
an aow shotgun usually runs over $750, plus the $5 stamp. it cannot have a butttstock attached, otherwise it won't be an aow anymore, it'll be a short bbl shotgun.
you can get a $175 rem 870 from a pawn shop and chop it yourself and you will have everything an aow is and the ability to install a stock

Glockster17
02-13-2011, 12:23
Check this out: http://www.serbu.com/top/superShorty.php

MrMurphy
02-13-2011, 13:15
18" with a Butler Creek folding stock. Add a HSGI scabbard to the pack and camoflauge it up some so it doesn't scream gun.

Bring a pistol and four mags, you can't always have the long gun handy.

PhotoFeller
02-14-2011, 01:00
18" with a Butler Creek folding stock. Add a HSGI scabbard to the pack and camoflauge it up some so it doesn't scream gun.

Bring a pistol and four mags, you can't always have the long gun handy.

MrMurphy...

You seem familiar with the rig I seek. Tell me more.

I live in Florida, so I must carry my shotgun concealed. I visualize a short barrel shotgun in a quiver-type back pack with my ESSE Junglas knife attached. I want to be able to reach over my shoulder to draw the shotgun.

The HSGI scabbards I saw on their site were designed for guns with stocks; are you suggesting a short barrel might be concealed in one of these?

MrMurphy
02-14-2011, 01:08
Call HSGI.

Talk to Gene. He's the owner. Tell him what you're looking to do. Either they'll have something already like it, or they'll do a custom. A scabbard like they make for an M4 could easily be closed off with a flap and a fastex buckle without much work. It'd basically be a MOLLE-pack equivalent of the old M1A1 carbine paratrooper bag.

PhotoFeller
02-14-2011, 01:17
Call HSGI.

Talk to Gene. He's the owner. Tell him what you're looking to do. Either they'll have something already like it, or they'll do a custom. A scabbard like they make for an M4 could easily be closed off with a flap and a fastex buckle without much work. It'd basically be a MOLLE-pack equivalent of the old M1A1 carbine paratrooper bag.

My thanks. May I tell Gene you suggested I call?

Please explain the quote that accompanies your posts. Source? Significance to you...your philosophy?

MrMurphy
02-14-2011, 06:27
He does not know me under this name, though we once spent a few hours discussing a custom 40mm launcher rig being made for my unit at the time when I was stationed in Europe.


If you don't recognize a line from the Boondock Saints, you need to go watch it.

8th SPS USAF
02-14-2011, 08:00
SBS- short bbl shotgun- under 18" bbl with stock Tax $200
AOW- any othere weapon- under 18" bbl no stock Tax $5
If you cut your own BBL after you get the F1 back w/tax is $200
You can't cut a bbl and make it an AOW it has to come from factory this way

I have owned several Rem 870 AOW's very nice and fun guns to shoot

PhotoFeller
02-14-2011, 08:39
SBS- short bbl shotgun- under 18" bbl with stock Tax $200
AOW- any othere weapon- under 18" bbl no stock Tax $5
If you cut your own BBL after you get the F1 back w/tax is $200
You can't cut a bbl and make it an AOW it has to come from factory this way

I have owned several Rem 870 AOW's very nice and fun guns to shoot

Do I need a lawyer to initiate the stamp acquisition? I assume there is an application process involving ATF.

Can I purchase the AOW or SBS prior to getting the stamp? There is a gun show coming up in 2weeks and I probably can't get a stamp by then.

Thanks.

TxGun
02-14-2011, 12:26
18" barrel; 26" OAL is legal. Less than that, you need a stamp.

David Armstrong
02-14-2011, 13:12
Do I need a lawyer to initiate the stamp acquisition? I assume there is an application process involving ATF.

Can I purchase the AOW or SBS prior to getting the stamp? There is a gun show coming up in 2weeks and I probably can't get a stamp by then.

Thanks.
I'm going to throw a damper into the whole mess. Based on the posts you have little or know real knowledge about this isse. I'll also assume you have little or no experience with SBRs. The best thing you can do is go to a good Class 3 Dealer in your state, talk with him, and try to find a gun similar to what you think you want and try it out. The SBR (shotgun) is a very specialized firearm for actual use.

Boeydafunk
02-14-2011, 14:08
Good call Dave

PhotoFeller
02-14-2011, 16:57
I'm going to throw a damper into the whole mess. Based on the posts you have little or know real knowledge about this isse. I'll also assume you have little or no experience with SBRs. The best thing you can do is go to a good Class 3 Dealer in your state, talk with him, and try to find a gun similar to what you think you want and try it out. The SBR (shotgun) is a very specialized firearm for actual use.

What mess are you referring to? I admit to having little knowledge about the process of obtaining a stamp or, for that matter, the "specialized" nature of a short barrel shotgun. My query was not a fishing expedition nor was it insincere.

I was under the impression that this venue is provided for the free exchange of information from those who know to those who desire to know. Apparently you, Mr. Armstrong, because of your tenure, have decided my inquiry isn't based on sufficient knowledge of the subject. While I respect your vast knowledge and experience in these matters, I believe you have crossed the line here.

PhotoFeller
02-14-2011, 17:13
Good call Dave


Just so I'll know how and when it's ok to ask a question in the future, please critique my posts by pointing out which statements contributed to the "mess". Thanks for your help.

chemcmndr
02-14-2011, 21:33
Do I need a lawyer to initiate the stamp acquisition? I assume there is an application process involving ATF.

There is an application process that you must go through with the ATF that normally takes about 3 months. Whether or not you need a lawyer could depend on which route you take to acquiring your NFA firearms. Route 1 is called the "individual" route. This is where you fill out the paperwork in your name, submit your photograph and fingerprints for a background check and get the Chief LEO in your area to sign off on the forms saying that they have no reason to suspect you can't own NFA weapons. This option doesn't require a lawyer to be involved.

The second option is called the "trust" or "corporation" route. Here, a person will set up a living trust or a corporation that the weapons will be registered to. The advantage of this is so that multiple people (your family) can have access to or possess the weapons without having to file transfer paperwork, pay another tax, and wait another 3 months for ATF approval. The other reason people choose this route is if they have a Chief LEO that refuses to sign off on their paperwork. Since a trust or corporation is a business entity, the Chief LEO section on the form is left blank.


Can I purchase the AOW or SBS prior to getting the stamp? There is a gun show coming up in 2weeks and I probably can't get a stamp by then.
Thanks.

By "purchase" if you mean just paying for the weapon, then yes, you can, and most likely will have to pay for it before you get the stamp. However, you cannot physically take possession of the weapon from the dealer or individual (if you file a form 4) or assemble/cut the barrel off of your shotgun (if you file a form 1) until you physically have the tax stamp in hand. In order to file the paperwork with the ATF, you need the serial number of the shotgun/AOW that you will be building/transferring.

Hope this helps. If you have any other questions, feel free to send me a PM.

Boeydafunk
02-14-2011, 22:28
Dave stated that since you lack knowledge about how and where to get such a shotgun, and that they are "specialized firearms" you should go speak with someone locally who can help you in your quest for such knowledge. I agree whole heartedly.

Secondly, why do you want a 12" barrel? Did you pick the number out of the air? Is 26" overall to large for your purpose? PM me and ill answer what ever I can for you.

In my opinion the rig you invision is worthless for all but a very small section of people and can be very dangerous to get out and put back in. This is not a movie. Instead of going through all the hassle, I would just go get a .44 magnum revolver and save the money. If you think of replying "with the shotgun I wont have to aim at something if its right there" get to a good class and learn about the shotgun.
DaFUnk

ChuteTheMall
02-14-2011, 22:47
Get a folding stock and an 18" tube, and avoid the paperwork.

Give that a fair trial before deciding you really need to shorten that barrel by 4 or 6 inches.
Also give the folding stock a fair trial before you decide to limit yourself to a pistol grip only.
I'm betting if the stock is unfolded, you'll be much faster and much more accurate. And when the stock is folded, well, there's your pistol grip version.

If you decide to go the AOW route, you are well advised to visit a local Class 3 dealer who can make your path smooth. I finally agreed with Dave.:faint:

Check out the link earlier in this thread to Serbu; I believe he's in Tampa, just above the swamps from you.:cool:

WoodenPlank
02-14-2011, 22:55
MrMurphy...

You seem familiar with the rig I seek. Tell me more.

I live in Florida, so I must carry my shotgun concealed. I visualize a short barrel shotgun in a quiver-type back pack with my ESSE Junglas knife attached. I want to be able to reach over my shoulder to draw the shotgun.

The HSGI scabbards I saw on their site were designed for guns with stocks; are you suggesting a short barrel might be concealed in one of these?

I am pretty sure that a concealed, non-handgun firearm in Florida - even with CWL - is a no-no. Depending on where you are going to be (private property vs state park vs state game lands, etc), I would suggest some serious research into the legalities of doing such before you find yourself in a very deep hole.

ETA: That, combined with (as David pointed out) your obvious newness to SBR/SBS paperwork and legalities, seems to indicate to me you need to stay on the easy side of the legality fence, or perhaps avoid this shotgun route all-together. While getting an SBR/SBS/AOW/etc in FL is very doable (depending on county), the legalities of carrying and/or using one can get murky fast - especially anywhere other than private property, with landowner permission.

PhotoFeller
02-15-2011, 00:55
Thanks for your advice. It is very much appreciated.

After reflecting upon your comments, I am considering giving up this venture into a new area (for me) of firearm experience. Sounds like what I had in mind may be illegal in Florida, and I may not be well suited for a 'specialized' weapon anyway.

I regret my awkward effort to gather information about the stamp process, ATF regs, etc. My trip to the web site for ATF regs just wasn't fruitful. Sometimes it's more efficient to bite the bullet and schedule a bit of lawyer time.

Anyway, thanks for helping bring this thread to a quiet close.

David Armstrong
02-15-2011, 15:15
What mess are you referring to? I admit to having little knowledge about the process of obtaining a stamp or, for that matter, the "specialized" nature of a short barrel shotgun.
Thus the mess.
My query was not a fishing expedition nor was it insincere.
Don't think anybody suggested otherwise.
I was under the impression that this venue is provided for the free exchange of information from those who know to those who desire to know. Apparently you, Mr. Armstrong, because of your tenure, have decided my inquiry isn't based on sufficient knowledge of the subject.
No, it has nothing to do with my tenure, it has everything to do with what you are asking and how you are asking it, which seems to indicate someone who has seen something they think is really spiffy in a magazine or on a video or something, and has come to a questionable decision about incorporating that object in to their lifestyle without having any real understanding of the issue.
While I respect your vast knowledge and experience in these matters, I believe you have crossed the line here. Furthermore, based upon all I have observed in your many posts, your comments seem a bit out of character.
Let's see now. You admit you don't have much if any idea what you are talking about, and I suggest that rather than fish around on an internet forum you actually go talk to someone who can tell you what is needed to do what you want AND who may be able to assist you in deciding if what you think you want is really what you want. If that bothers you perhaps it is you who needs to check out the lines.
You want me to step across the line. I don't mind. Here:
Buying an SBR shotgun for woods carry is a stupid idea. Putting it into a concealed scabbard to carry around on your back is a stupid idea.

Hope that cleared up any confusion.:dunno:

PhotoFeller
02-15-2011, 16:27
Thus the mess.

Don't think anybody suggested otherwise.

No, it has nothing to do with my tenure, it has everything to do with what you are asking and how you are asking it, which seems to indicate someone who has seen something they think is really spiffy in a magazine or on a video or something, and has come to a questionable decision about incorporating that object in to their lifestyle without having any real understanding of the issue.

Let's see now. You admit you don't have much if any idea what you are talking about, and I suggest that rather than fish around on an internet forum you actually go talk to someone who can tell you what is needed to do what you want AND who may be able to assist you in deciding if what you think you want is really what you want. If that bothers you perhaps it is you who needs to check out the lines.
You want me to step across the line. I don't mind. Here:
Buying an SBR shotgun for woods carry is a stupid idea. Putting it into a concealed scabbard to carry around on your back is a stupid idea.

Hope that cleared up any confusion.:dunno:

Thanks for a candid response. Perhaps my ideas lack wisdom, I'll give you that. I'll also concede that the idea is a bit unconventional.

I am 70, a little bit disabled with bad knees, but determined to continue prowling around outdoors, usually alone, in southwest Florida. When I moved here I envisioned exploring the bush with my 870 slung over my back as I did in Indiana for years; I just feel more comfortable with a shotgun than a handgun. However, open carry of a shotgun outside of hunting season is a no no. So, I bought a Judge; unfortunately it just didn't provide what I was looking for.

It occurred to me recently that it would be possible to carry a short shotgun in a pack or scabbard to satisfy the CC requirement and have real shotgun firepower. I am very conservative about firearm carry, and would not consider attempting to draw quickly from my back. I would probably carry condition 3 as I do a handgun. The primary idea would be to provide insurance in the event I get down and have to wait for help. We do have critters here...snakes, rabid skunks and raccoons, feral dogs, wild hogs, etc. Would a handgun accomplish the same thing? Yes, but I have always been a shotgun guy.

The reference I made to a 12" barrel was made only to probe for the regulatory requirement for a very short barrel length.

My remark about crossing the line referred to your generalization that the thread was a "mess", followed by criticism that I didn't know much about the subject. In fact, I was trying to gather information so I would know more about the regs and the ATF procedures. The tenor of your remarks, as I interpreted them, struck me as unnecessarily abrasive.

I hope you have a better understanding of the basis for my questions. I don't
expect you to think the idea had any merit. In fact, the entire proposition may be unlawful in Florida according to someone who posted that opinion.

WoodenPlank
02-15-2011, 18:18
Photo, it isn't so much a lack of wisdom as it is just needing to know the ins and outs specific to things like SBRs and SBSs. There is a lot of paperwork, wrangling, and headache involved in going the NFA route, and additional restrictions on when and where they can be used. Even in a gun-friendly state like Florida, Title 2 firearms are best kept to home defense (and that can be questionable) and range use only.

Since you mentioned you already had a Judge, what issues did you run into with it for fulfilling your needs? Obviously a .410/.45 Colt handgun isn't the best choice for shotgun duties, but backing that up with quality .45 Colt ammo can really help (ie: first round being loaded with bird shot for snakes, etc, and the remaining 4 loaded with .45 Coly JHP for larger threats). Maybe you can look at the new Rossi Circuit Judge (http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=190&category=15&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=&CFID=5233806&CFTOKEN=10815772), as well. Smaller and lighter weight than most full size shotguns, but the same ammo capabilities of the Judge. The rifled version, I imagine, would be VERY effective with .45 Colt ammo, and still decently useful with shot for smaller problems like snakes, raccoons, etc.
I am not sure of the overall quality of the Rossi (and have only seen one in person), but it might bear some research for your needs. Carrying it concealed would still be a no-no, I believe, but would save you a lot of headache by skipping the NFA process.

PhotoFeller
02-15-2011, 19:07
Photo, it isn't so much a lack of wisdom as it is just needing to know the ins and outs specific to things like SBRs and SBSs. There is a lot of paperwork, wrangling, and headache involved in going the NFA route, and additional restrictions on when and where they can be used. Even in a gun-friendly state like Florida, Title 2 firearms are best kept to home defense (and that can be questionable) and range use only.

Since you mentioned you already had a Judge, what issues did you run into with it for fulfilling your needs? Obviously a .410/.45 Colt handgun isn't the best choice for shotgun duties, but backing that up with quality .45 Colt ammo can really help (ie: first round being loaded with bird shot for snakes, etc, and the remaining 4 loaded with .45 Coly JHP for larger threats). Maybe you can look at the new Rossi Circuit Judge (http://www.rossiusa.com/product-details.cfm?id=190&category=15&toggle=&breadcrumbseries=&CFID=5233806&CFTOKEN=10815772), as well. Smaller and lighter weight than most full size shotguns, but the same ammo capabilities of the Judge. The rifled version, I imagine, would be VERY effective with .45 Colt ammo, and still decently useful with shot for smaller problems like snakes, raccoons, etc.
I am not sure of the overall quality of the Rossi (and have only seen one in person), but it might bear some research for your needs. Carrying it concealed would still be a no-no, I believe, but would save you a lot of headache by skipping the NFA process.

The 2 1/2 inch .410 just doesn't contain enough shot to cover a target very effectively. My experience at the shooting range with Federal 7/16 oz #4 shot (personal defense) shells didn't produce a great pattern at close distance. I enjoy shooting the Judge, but it seems a bit under powered for a trail gun. My Judge shoots the .45 long Colt surprisingly well.

I understand someone is building a 28 ga handgun (Taurus?) and S&W may have a shot shell handgun in the works. I haven't seen the Rossi.

My best course of action may be to sign up for a couple of new knees or stay out of the woods.

Thanks WP.

Fanner50
02-15-2011, 20:45
I am pretty sure that a concealed, non-handgun firearm in Florida - even with CWL - is a no-no. Depending on where you are going to be (private property vs state park vs state game lands, etc), I would suggest some serious research into the legalities of doing such before you find yourself in a very deep hole.

ETA: That, combined with (as David pointed out) your obvious newness to SBR/SBS paperwork and legalities, seems to indicate to me you need to stay on the easy side of the legality fence, or perhaps avoid this shotgun route all-together. While getting an SBR/SBS/AOW/etc in FL is very doable (depending on county), the legalities of carrying and/or using one can get murky fast - especially anywhere other than private property, with landowner permission.

In Florida it's a "Concealed WEAPONS License, not a Concealed handgun License. It you can conceal it you can carry it.

MrMurphy
02-15-2011, 21:01
Me, i'd rather have a 9mm and a couple spare mags over a short barrel 12ga with 3 rounds in the mag.

Angry Fist
02-15-2011, 21:11
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz13/MO_FUGGAZ/SAIGASBS.jpg?t=1297825887

PhotoFeller
02-15-2011, 21:59
Me, i'd rather have a 9mm and a couple spare mags over a short barrel 12ga with 3 rounds in the mag.

I understand, and I've got the 9mm, .357, .40, .45. I've considered a handgun for the woods. I just think I'll be better served, especially if ill or injured, with a scatter gun. A gun in the outdoor environment, at my age, is for emergency, not for everyday CC circumstances. My chances for a serious threat in the woods or 'Glades are much greater than the average person carrying a handgun in the city where they live; that's my reality.

My security blanket is a 12 ga shotgun with a pocket full of extra shells. Just can't figure out a way to make it happen in Florida.

PhotoFeller
02-15-2011, 22:23
In Florida it's a "Concealed WEAPONS License, not a Concealed handgun License. It you can conceal it you can carry it.

Based on your understanding of Florida law, would it be legal to CC a short barrel shotgun?

WoodenPlank
02-16-2011, 16:06
In Florida it's a "Concealed WEAPONS License, not a Concealed handgun License. It you can conceal it you can carry it.

Florida statutes Chapter 790.06 would disagree with you....

The Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services is authorized to issue licenses to carry concealed weapons or concealed firearms to persons qualified as provided in this section. Each such license must bear a color photograph of the licensee. For the purposes of this section, concealed weapons or concealed firearms are defined as a handgun, electronic weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(9). Such licenses shall be valid throughout the state for a period of 7 years from the date of issuance. Any person in compliance with the terms of such license may carry a concealed weapon or concealed firearm notwithstanding the provisions of s. 790.01. The licensee must carry the license, together with valid identification, at all times in which the licensee is in actual possession of a concealed weapon or firearm and must display both the license and proper identification upon demand by a law enforcement officer. Violations of the provisions of this subsection shall constitute a noncriminal violation with a penalty of $25, payable to the clerk of the court.

Note it says HANDGUN. Not "any firearm", nor "if you can conceal it, you can carry it."
In FL, it is called a concealed weapons license because it covers more than just handguns. As per the bolded section, it also covers "electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(90)."

Photo: Since a SBS is not considered a handgun in any way, it is not legal to CC one.

Edit to add: Direct link to Florida GS 790.06 (http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html)
When I did my application for my CCW (Done in-person at an Ag. Department office) I was given a hard copy of Chapter 790, which covers most of Florida's firearms-related laws. For anyone with, or considering, a FL CWL, do yourself a favor and READ IT. It is surprisingly plain in language, so you wont need a lawyer to decipher it for you. I even try to keep a copy in my vehicle, just in case I run across an uninformed/misinformed LEO.

PhotoFeller
02-16-2011, 16:53
Florida statutes Chapter 790.06 would disagree with you....



Note it says HANDGUN. Not "any firearm", nor "if you can conceal it, you can carry it."
In FL, it is called a concealed weapons license because it covers more than just handguns. As per the bolded section, it also covers "electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(90)."

Photo: Since a SBS is not considered a handgun in any way, it is not legal to CC one.

Edit to add: Direct link to Florida GS 790.06 (http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html)
When I did my application for my CCW (Done in-person at an Ag. Department office) I was given a hard copy of Chapter 790, which covers most of Florida's firearms-related laws. For anyone with, or considering, a FL CWL, do yourself a favor and READ IT. It is surprisingly plain in language, so you wont need a lawyer to decipher it for you. I even try to keep a copy in my vehicle, just in case I run across an uninformed/misinformed LEO.

My reading of the statute this afternoon leads me to the same conclusion as yours. Thanks for your posts to help me figure this out. I didn't think it was an issue here if effectively concealed.

I'll probably stick with my Judge loaded with shot shells for outings, and maybe supplement it with a G26 tucked away somewhere. The Taurus 28 ga revolver is interesting; wonder how it passes as a pistol instead of a SBS.

WoodenPlank
02-16-2011, 17:19
My reading of the statute this afternoon leads me to the same conclusion as yours. Thanks for your posts to help me figure this out. I didn't think it was an issue here if effectively concealed.

I'll probably stick with my Judge loaded with shot shells for outings, and maybe supplement it with a G26 tucked away somewhere. The Taurus 28 ga revolver is interesting; wonder how it passes as a pistol instead of a SBS.

The original 28ga one they showed at SHOT was classified as either an AOW or a DD, I cannot remember which. Last I heard, Taurus was going to be restricting the bore down to .50, or slightly less, to get it back into the standard handgun classification.

To me, the Judge/G26 combo would be a good bet, especially if you had at least a couple chambers on the Judge loaded with .45 Colt. Maybe some form of hard-cast lead for better penetration against gators and such - I honestly do not know what is needed to be more effective against them. Plus, so long as you are packing handguns, there is no restriction on how MANY you can carry, so long as they are concealed. :whistling:

On a relevant note, there is a bill in the Florida legislature that will make open carry legal in FL again, so long as you have a CWL. I am not sure if this will include long guns (I doubt it), but it could make life a little easier on you.

05DodgeDakota
02-16-2011, 18:03
Read this section of FL law, it might help you.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec25.HTM

WoodenPlank
02-16-2011, 18:09
Read this section of FL law, it might help you.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec25.HTM

Link broken. I think THIS (http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?m&App_Mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec25.htm&StatuteYear=2005) is what you were going for. That's the 2005 version, but I don't think it has been changed or updated since then.

05DodgeDakota
02-16-2011, 18:31
Link broken. I think THIS (http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?m&App_Mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0790/Sec25.htm&StatuteYear=2005) is what you were going for. That's the 2005 version, but I don't think it has been changed or updated since then.

yes, thank you

Fanner50
02-17-2011, 08:20
Florida statutes Chapter 790.06 would disagree with you....



Note it says HANDGUN. Not "any firearm", nor "if you can conceal it, you can carry it."
In FL, it is called a concealed weapons license because it covers more than just handguns. As per the bolded section, it also covers "electric weapon or device, tear gas gun, knife, or billie, but the term does not include a machine gun as defined in s. 790.001(90)."

Photo: Since a SBS is not considered a handgun in any way, it is not legal to CC one.

Edit to add: Direct link to Florida GS 790.06 (http://archive.flsenate.gov/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0790/Sections/0790.06.html)
When I did my application for my CCW (Done in-person at an Ag. Department office) I was given a hard copy of Chapter 790, which covers most of Florida's firearms-related laws. For anyone with, or considering, a FL CWL, do yourself a favor and READ IT. It is surprisingly plain in language, so you wont need a lawyer to decipher it for you. I even try to keep a copy in my vehicle, just in case I run across an uninformed/misinformed LEO.

I stand corrected. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

PhotoFeller
02-17-2011, 10:16
I stand corrected. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

Thanks, Fanner-

I hope to follow your example in future posts. I most admire 'gentlemen' in all areas of public interaction.

jsdintexas
02-17-2011, 12:33
I would choose the Mossberg Cruiser in a quick pull scabbard - under $500, no cutting, no stamping, no problem.

WoodenPlank
02-17-2011, 14:01
I stand corrected. I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. Thanks for the clarification.

The humility is appreciated here, as well. :supergrin:

I would choose the Mossberg Cruiser in a quick pull scabbard - under $500, no cutting, no stamping, no problem.

As was discussed earlier in the thread, concealing a shotgun in such a way in Florida would run afoul of our concealed weapons laws.

That being said, if you are truly in the middle of NOWHERE, I doubt it would be much of an issue. However, if you did run across some form of LEO, and they either misunderstood your intentions, or just had a chip on their shoulder, problems could definitely ensue. The same goes for wandering into a residential area that you didn't realize was there.

PhotoFeller
02-17-2011, 14:08
I would choose the Mossberg Cruiser in a quick pull scabbard - under $500, no cutting, no stamping, no problem.

I like the looks of the Cruiser, and the price is great. The rub is, I can't carry a shotgun open in Florida except during hunting season, and I can't carry a Cruiser concealed because the only thing legal for CC is a "handgun" (no CC of AOW or SBS or shotgun). Guess I'm just skewered!

jsdintexas
02-17-2011, 14:10
As was discussed earlier in the thread, concealing a shotgun in such a way in Florida would run afoul of our concealed weapons laws.

Sorry, should have read more carefully - just thinking about OC in the woods and doing in that grizzly or whatever. With these considerations, maybe a 10mm would do. :supergrin:

PhotoFeller
02-17-2011, 14:34
The humility is appreciated here, as well. :supergrin:



As was discussed earlier in the thread, concealing a shotgun in such a way in Florida would run afoul of our concealed weapons laws.

That being said, if you are truly in the middle of NOWHERE, I doubt it would be much of an issue. However, if you did run across some form of LEO, and they either misunderstood your intentions, or just had a chip on their shoulder, problems could definitely ensue. The same goes for wandering into a residential area that you didn't realize was there.

You know, my old uncle Joe - the guy who introduced me to hunting with shotguns - used to drill into me that hunting and fishing seasons and all laws must be followed to the letter. That was a condition to borrowing his aged Volunteer 12ga single shot for hunting small game. Even though I might be ok carrying an AOW off the beaten path, I would be uncomfortable doing it.

Maybe the law will be changed some day to allow open carry of a shotgun any time outside of community boundaries. It doesn't seem any less reasonable than allowing unrestricted handgun open carry as is being considered in Florida. I don't think legislation under consideration at this time deals with use of a shotgun.

WoodenPlank
02-17-2011, 15:09
You know, my old uncle Joe - the guy who introduced me to hunting with shotguns - used to drill into me that hunting and fishing seasons and all laws must be followed to the letter. That was a condition to borrowing his aged Volunteer 12ga single shot for hunting small game. Even though I might be ok carrying an AOW off the beaten path, I would be uncomfortable doing it.

Maybe the law will be changed some day to allow open carry of a shotgun any time outside of community boundaries. It doesn't seem any less reasonable than allowing unrestricted handgun open carry as is being considered in Florida. I don't think legislation under consideration at this time deals with use of a shotgun.

Have you tried contacting the local Fish and Wildlife Commission office? There may be some exemptions that I am not aware of for game lands that could let you carry a shotgun openly. It won't hurt anything to give them a ring.

PhotoFeller
02-17-2011, 16:25
Have you tried contacting the local Fish and Wildlife Commission office? There may be some exemptions that I am not aware of for game lands that could let you carry a shotgun openly. It won't hurt anything to give them a ring.

Why didn't I think of that? Calling about an exemption is a good idea, and my squeeky clean record might help. I'll start with the local sheriff for guidance and go from there. Thanks.

WoodenPlank
02-17-2011, 17:19
Why didn't I think of that? Calling about an exemption is a good idea, and my squeeky clean record might help. I'll start with the local sheriff for guidance and go from there. Thanks.

I was thinking more along the lines of some statute I am not aware of that would let you legally carry out of hunting season for defensive/protection reasons, so long as you werent caught poaching/hunting out of season. It doesn't hurt to ask, either way.

If youre still SOL on the shotgun front, I would default to your earlier concept of carrying the Judge for small problems (ie: snakes, etc) and a good 9mm or larger handgun for bigger stuff. Is your Judge the newer 3" cylinder, or is it the older 2 3/4" one?

WhiteCoyote
02-19-2011, 05:42
If you want short....
....get a Serbu!
http://i53.tinypic.com/9geh6r.jpg

PhotoFeller
02-19-2011, 09:31
I was thinking more along the lines of some statute I am not aware of that would let you legally carry out of hunting season for defensive/protection reasons, so long as you werent caught poaching/hunting out of season. It doesn't hurt to ask, either way.

If youre still SOL on the shotgun front, I would default to your earlier concept of carrying the Judge for small problems (ie: snakes, etc) and a good 9mm or larger handgun for bigger stuff. Is your Judge the newer 3" cylinder, or is it the older 2 3/4" one?


My Judge is the original, short cylinder version. I don't know if moving up to the 3" would make much of a difference with shot count. I'll inquire at the gun show this weekend.

WoodenPlank
02-20-2011, 14:05
If you want short....
....get a Serbu!
http://i53.tinypic.com/9geh6r.jpg

Fun, and legal to own, but illegal to carry in Florida. Since photo was looking for something to carry... :whistling:

My Judge is the original, short cylinder version. I don't know if moving up to the 3" would make much of a difference with shot count. I'll inquire at the gun show this weekend.

Probably not a huge difference, but if youre stick with a .410 handgun, might as well take all the advantages you can get.

PhotoFeller
02-20-2011, 15:17
WP-

Thanks for hangin in there with me. This thread got off to a rocky start, but I
ended up learning a lot in the process. I'm going to inquire tomorrow about the possibility of an exemption for me to carry an 870.

If you're tuned in Dave, hope my remarks can be forgotten. Guys like you and WP are the glue that makes this forum a quality place.

David Armstrong
02-21-2011, 14:27
WP-

Thanks for hangin in there with me. This thread got off to a rocky start, but I
ended up learning a lot in the process. I'm going to inquire tomorrow about the possibility of an exemption for me to carry an 870.

If you're tuned in Dave, hope my remarks can be forgotten. Guys like you and WP are the glue that makes this forum a quality place.
No problem on my end. Heck, I've been griped at by experts. It's the internet, it can't matter too much!:wavey:

WoodenPlank
02-22-2011, 01:30
WP-

Thanks for hangin in there with me. This thread got off to a rocky start, but I
ended up learning a lot in the process. I'm going to inquire tomorrow about the possibility of an exemption for me to carry an 870.

If you're tuned in Dave, hope my remarks can be forgotten. Guys like you and WP are the glue that makes this forum a quality place.

Not a problem, sir.

No problem on my end. Heck, I've been griped at by experts. It's the internet, it can't matter too much!:wavey:

Take everything you see on the internet with a grain of salt, and a whole lot of thick skin. :whistling:

Nalapombu
02-22-2011, 22:19
photo,

As you no doubt know south Florida is Full of PRIVATE LAND. Make sure to stay off WMA lands and ask the owner and carry whatever you want.

nalajr

PhotoFeller
02-22-2011, 23:17
photo,

As you no doubt know south Florida is Full of PRIVATE LAND. Make sure to stay off WMA lands and ask the owner and carry whatever you want.

nalajr

For decades I hunted and trapped on private land in Indiana and carried a shotgun or rifle without a second thought. Some of the landowner relationships developed over years, and farmers were generally open to hunters who asked for permission, called in advance of showing up, parked thoughtfully without blocking gates and respected their property and livestock. I'm not sure folks in Florida are as receptive to strangers wanting to hunt or wander about their land. Maybe I should give it a shot. It doesn't cost anything to ask, and it would give me the freedom to shoulder my 870.

PhotoFeller
02-23-2011, 08:16
For decades I hunted and trapped on private land in Indiana and carried a shotgun or rifle without a second thought. Some of the landowner relationships developed over years, and farmers were generally open to hunters who asked for permission, called in advance of showing up, parked thoughtfully without blocking gates and respected their property and livestock. I'm not sure folks in Florida are as receptive to strangers wanting to hunt or wander about their land. Maybe I should give it a shot. It doesn't cost anything to ask, and it would give me the freedom to shoulder my 870.

I just learned from another forum that open carry on someone else's private property in Florida is restricted by statute to hunting, fishing and camping. I believe that applies to any firearm.

Nalapombu
02-23-2011, 22:39
you could always say you are camping or better, you're pig hunting. No restrictions at all on private land.

nalajr

WoodenPlank
02-25-2011, 15:07
you could always say you are camping or better, you're pig hunting. No restrictions at all on private land.

nalajr

He has a point. Hogs are considered pest animals in FL, and you can legally hunt them year round, with nearly any weapon, on private land (with landowner permission). When I get back to FL next week, I am going to start checking into the legality of hog hunting with an SBR on private land...

PhotoFeller
02-25-2011, 15:24
He has a point. Hogs are considered pest animals in FL, and you can legally hunt them year round, with nearly any weapon, on private land (with landowner permission). When I get back to FL next week, I am going to start checking into the legality of hog hunting with an SBR on private land...

As a matter of fact, hog hunting would be a legitimate activity for me if the landowner is comfortable with harvesting some of the pests. I think there is an open season on those critters year around.

Thanks Nalajr and WP. Let me know if you come across something that sheds some light on the idea, WP.

By the way, my 870 has an 18" barrel, so it would be legal for hunting without any special permit.

Nalapombu
02-25-2011, 22:56
Since I live around Cape Coral and have been looking for places to hog hunt, I am pretty familiar with the regs. As long as it is on PRIVATE LAND they can be hunted year around and taken with nearly any weapon that's legal. I say nearly because I can't quote it, but have read it many times. I don't think it would matter at all if you had a SBS hunting hogs on private land. Why would the cops be there in the first place?

Here are the regs....

http://myfwc.com/RECREATION/Wildhog_index.htm

As far as my reading you're good to go.

Nalajr

PhotoFeller
02-26-2011, 01:17
Since I live around Cape Coral and have been looking for places to hog hunt, I am pretty familiar with the regs. As long as it is on PRIVATE LAND they can be hunted year around and taken with nearly any weapon that's legal. I say nearly because I can't quote it, but have read it many times. I don't think it would matter at all if you had a SBS hunting hogs on private land. Why would the cops be there in the first place?

Here are the regs....

http://myfwc.com/RECREATION/Wildhog_index.htm

As far as my reading you're good to go.

Nalajr

Are you finding land owners open to strangers asking to hunt? Are you looking for places to pay to hunt?

Nalapombu
02-26-2011, 16:51
I am looking for places to hunt pigs in this area.

Nalajr

fireslayer23
03-07-2011, 21:48
He has a point. Hogs are considered pest animals in FL, and you can legally hunt them year round, with nearly any weapon, on private land (with landowner permission). When I get back to FL next week, I am going to start checking into the legality of hog hunting with an SBR on private land...

You're good to go with SBR's on private land in Florida. I took the one below with my 10.5" 6.8 and AAC M4-2000 suppressor. The scale "only" went to 300 pounds and the needle settled about a 1/8" below the 300 pound mark.

http://i51.tinypic.com/alhje0.jpg

Trying for one with my Serbu might be a little more excitement than I'd want though.

http://i53.tinypic.com/r932xd.jpg

Burns
03-20-2011, 09:12
http://i809.photobucket.com/albums/zz13/MO_FUGGAZ/SAIGASBS.jpg?t=1297825887

Winner: Ultimate bug-out, SHTF defensive weapon.

Does it come short barreled or is that a custom feature?