Waiting on From 4, Dealer goes out of business [Archive] - Glock Talk

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wct097
03-10-2011, 20:09
I purchased a can in December. It took about a month to get my paperwork in order. In that time frame, the dealer had closed his shop, and moved into a new shop that he was opening under another name (partnership). Originally he had the FFL in his name. He assured me that the transfer could continue and the silencer would be kept at the new shop. In early January, I got all of my stuff together and brought it in. He checked it over and gave it to an employee to mail to the ATF.

I stopped by the shop last week only to be told that he was no longer affiliated with them, and that the silencers 'went with him' as they were not going to be a Class III dealer. The gave me his personal phone number. I've talked to him once. He told me to call back this week. I've not been able to get him or a returned call this week. The NFA branch of the ATF doesn't have my paperwork yet, though they say that's probably normal, and I haven't gotten info back from the USPS to see if the money order was cashed.

So all in all, I really don't know what the situation is. He apparently does not have a FFL or business anymore. Will the ATF still process the Form 4? Does he even have to have a FFL to finish the transfer? Anyone gone through something like this before?

UZIFORME
03-11-2011, 00:57
If the man was a sole proprietor and went out of business, all inventory becomes his personal property. If you are in the same state of residence of this man he can transfer direct on a form 4 to you as an individual, no dealers license is needed. A partnership is a totally different thing, if he transferred his inventory into a partnership and then quit the partnership, he can not just keep the items but would have to do a tax paid transfer to himself, I doubt he did that, most likely the items are his to do with as he wants. Hopefully he is honest enough he finishes up with you. BATFE will not care that he screwed you out of money, only that the paperwork is correct on transfers. Good Luck

wct097
03-11-2011, 14:58
If the man was a sole proprietor and went out of business, all inventory becomes his personal property. If you are in the same state of residence of this man he can transfer direct on a form 4 to you as an individual, no dealers license is needed. A partnership is a totally different thing, if he transferred his inventory into a partnership and then quit the partnership, he can not just keep the items but would have to do a tax paid transfer to himself, I doubt he did that, most likely the items are his to do with as he wants. Hopefully he is honest enough he finishes up with you. BATFE will not care that he screwed you out of money, only that the paperwork is correct on transfers. Good Luck

I believe his FFL was in his name and the original business was a sole proprietorship. I *think* we should be good still.

wct097
03-12-2011, 18:31
It would appear that I've been had. ATF hasn't cashed the money order. Dealer was supposed to put everything in the mail in the first week of January. USPS just refunded me the $200, as its been over 60 days. Still no contact with the dealer. Hoping Amex takes care of me with my dispute. Sucks more about the lost tune than the money...

UZIFORME
03-12-2011, 21:50
For future transfers forget the whole money order thing, just write a personal check, so you know when it clears your bank, BATFE does not care about secured funds received, because you are not going to write a bad check are you.

How I do transfers, a customer buys a product, I fill out the form 4s, I fill out fingerprint cards, and the citizenship form. I provide a stamped envelope to the proper address for the BATFE. I send this bundle to the customer so they can go get prints and CLEO signoff. With instructions to put in the transfer fee check and they drop it in the mail. Also make sure the seller marks the check box that allows the buyer to check with BATFE on the status of the transfer.

If the man is out of business I don't know how American Express is going to reverse charges against a company that no longer exists.

Good luck choosing a better dealer next time.

wct097
03-12-2011, 22:40
For future transfers forget the whole money order thing, just write a personal check, so you know when it clears your bank, BATFE does not care about secured funds received, because you are not going to write a bad check are you.

Actually, I went with the money order because I didn't have a checking account with a checkbook, at the time. Use ING for everything.


How I do transfers, a customer buys a product, I fill out the form 4s, I fill out fingerprint cards, and the citizenship form. I provide a stamped envelope to the proper address for the BATFE. I send this bundle to the customer so they can go get prints and CLEO signoff. With instructions to put in the transfer fee check and they drop it in the mail. Also make sure the seller marks the check box that allows the buyer to check with BATFE on the status of the transfer.

If the man is out of business I don't know how American Express is going to reverse charges against a company that no longer exists.

Good luck choosing a better dealer next time.

Having not done it before, and the dealer being 'new' to the NFA game, he gave me the stuff and had me bring it back to him to check over and mail off. He claimed that the tax stamp/f4 would come back to him (hence he would mail it) to complete the xfer.

Not sure what Amex will do. They're pretty good as far as looking out for the customer, but this may be a little too long gone to have them take care of it. Will know within 6-8 weeks. Will probably talk to the PD about pressing charges (assuming I can), and consider small claims court if I can't get anywhere with him.

I'm furious that I'm going to have to do the CLEO, fingerprints, and waiting game all over again on top of the time I've already invested.

UZIFORME
03-13-2011, 00:52
The forms always go back to the person who owned the gun as in the seller. Then they notify the new owner to come get the firearm.

Ownership does not change legally until the gun is in the hands of the new owner. Until it is handed over the seller can cancel the transfer and the $200 tax will be refunded.

UZIFORME
03-13-2011, 01:00
On Subguns.com there is a recommended dealer list by state, you might try one of those dealers if one is in your area. Until you find a reliable local dealer.