Night sights - what practical application? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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barefoot
03-27-2011, 17:17
I can't help but wonder - under what circumstance would I need glowing sights? Here's my reasoning: If it's so dark that the white-on-black sights don't provide adequate contrast & visibility, then I probably can't see my target well enough for a positive ID - unless I'm shooting from the dark and the target is lit, in which case, I'd be able to use the black outline of the sights to aim. Am I overlooking anything? Please school me ...

down town
03-27-2011, 18:43
I hate to say it but I agree.

Midwest9mm
03-27-2011, 18:44
you need to mount a light on your glock then you will know ;).

That "outline" is not as fast to acquire as dots. Look at a gun with night sights in a dark but urban environment (with street lights etc.) and the benefits are hard to ignore.

When you hold a flashlight while acquiring your target in a dark room, you see the target AND sights. Not just the target and silhouette of your sights metal (or plastic) frame. All the cops around here have them. I have owned several pistols without night sights and after having them I would never NOT have them.

Plus I like being able to see my gun on the night stand in the middle of the night. :picard:

NMGlocker
03-27-2011, 18:49
Here's a novel idea.
Go to the range and actually try some low light shooting both with and without night sight equipped pistols.
School yourself instead of relying on a bunch of people of unknown experience.

mdehoogh
03-27-2011, 19:07
I'm sitting here in a darkened room with one small lamp in the corner. Comparing my XD with standard white on black sights and my Glock with factory night sights, I can pick up the Glock MUCH faster. The lamp provides plenty of light to identify a potential threat but the illuminated sights still help with sight acquisition.

It doesn't need to be PITCH BLACK in order for night sights to work.

GRT45
03-27-2011, 19:50
It doesn't need to be PITCH BLACK in order for night sights to work.

What you wrote is very true. In fact, in total darkness faced by an attacker, when our adrenaline is flowing and tunnel vision is closing in, it's not unheard of to mistake the wrong dot of a three-dot night sight for the one on the front sight if all three dots are the same color. For that reason alone, I much prefer a two-dot system with green on the front sight and a contrasting, dimmer color (yellow or orange) at the rear sight.

NMGlocker
03-27-2011, 21:20
it's not unheard of to mistake the wrong dot of a three-dot night sight for the one on the front sight if all three dots are the same color
Urban myth.
Pick up your pistol and deliberately mis-align the front sight to the point where it is outside the rear dots.
You have to tweak your wrist to the point that's it's obvious something isn't right.
If it doesn't feel totally foreign to you when you mis-align the sights to that extent, you need more trigger time not different colored lamps.

GRT45
03-27-2011, 22:50
Urban myth.

I read Mas Ayoob's comments on the subject and his assertion that police departments take it seriously.

Night Sight front only? (http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1219743)

Since I can't realistically simulate the gut wrenching, heart-pounding anxiety part of the equation to prove or disprove the theory, I choose to play it safe with my choice of night sights (two dots of contrasting colors), train with them and hope for the best.

Midwest9mm
03-28-2011, 08:15
I draw in low light conditions regularly... not ONCE have I misaligned the sights. There is a lot to be said for muscle memory. :upeyes:

barefoot
03-28-2011, 09:25
Here's a novel idea.
Go to the range and actually try some low light shooting both with and without night sight equipped pistols.
School yourself instead of relying on a bunch of people of unknown experience.

Well sure, if I could, but I'm not tight enough with any range owners to say "hey, can we flip the lights off for a half-hour?"

Thanks for the discussion, everyone - perhaps I'm being won over, if there's a low-light encounter, the night sights could be the edge that that makes the difference. If I'm going to replace my Glock rear sights with 3-dot's (since I'm not crazy about the dot-in-cup sights), perhaps they might as well be night sights.

NMGlocker
03-28-2011, 17:09
Well sure, if I could, but I'm not tight enough with any range owners to say "hey, can we flip the lights off for a half-hour?"
You have a light switch on your wall at home don't you?
You can easily see the difference between having night sights and not having them by experimenting at your own house "dry fire".

RayB
04-03-2011, 18:21
Almost nobody knows exactly how they'll respond in an honest-to-God panic situation. Even a stone-cold warrior can be caught off guard, or when he's not at his best.

I don't think anyone here can predict how well they'd perform with a bullet or two pumped into them... I suspect that if they were still alive and at all functioning, they'd want to return fire, and they'd take any help they could get with that!

It should be obvious that in pitch blackness you wouldn't even be able to target a threat. No passive sights—except a night vision scope--are going to help you there.

As was mentioned, tritium night sights would allow you to target a silhouetted threat in very low light conditions; they may even allow you to do this without giving away your position.

While there's no substitute for first-hand experience for anything, there is a body of knowledge from which we can draw, academic though it may be to us...

To my knowledge, the Israelis helped pioneer the use of tritium night sights in real-world applications of the worst order. They were also the first to make tritium-charged night sights readily available with their Meprolight brand. Maybe they know a thing or two about all this? :dunno:

Just saying... :whistling:

--Ray

jtull7
04-03-2011, 18:28
If there is someone in my house at night in the dark, and my wife is in bed beside me, the person, whoever they may be, is going to be shot, with my night sights, in the best general direction of the noise being made. Period. I don't need to ID the person. They have invaded my home. They will be shot.

RayB
04-03-2011, 21:23
If there is someone in my house at night in the dark, and my wife is in bed beside me, the person, whoever they may be, is going to be shot, with my night sights, in the best general direction of the noise being made. Period. I don't need to ID the person. They have invaded my home. They will be shot.


Can't say I disagree! :thumbsup:

In another home, with family members coming and going at various hours, a different strategy must be applied... :eyebrow:

Right now, in Wiskonsin, with Scott Walker (C-R) as governor, we actually have a real shot at a CCW provision and Castle and Stand-Your-Ground Doctrines! :woohoo:

Of course, for the above-mentioned to become laws, we need to get David Prosser elected to the Wisconsin Supreme Court, this Tuesday! :shocked:

We've been under Libtard rule for too long here! :steamed:

--Ray

Angry Fist
04-03-2011, 21:27
If there is someone in my house at night in the dark, and my wife is in bed beside me, the person, whoever they may be, is going to be shot, with my night sights, in the best general direction of the noise being made. Period. I don't need to ID the person. They have invaded my home. They will be shot.
That's why.

sciolist
04-04-2011, 13:59
Taking a good low-light pistol course will provide quite a bit of insight. Gun-mounted lights have their strengths, but also some significant liabilities.

I prefer just the tritium front for carry guns, but guess it's down to personal taste. IMO, you need to be confident shooting torso-sized targets at defensive range just on physical index. Should be no problem to look at a target, close eyes, draw/present, open eyes and have post in notch close to A Zone. If not, work on that before trying to fix software problem with hardware.

If light levels are low enough that you can't see black sights, identifying and illuminating all targets without illuminating yourself is going to be much more of an issue than illuminating your sights. When you illuminate the target, the gun will be indexed, and there will be ambient light for that short period of time... but the gun should come on target as a function of you seeing the target, not the sights.

bobelk99
04-04-2011, 19:12
If it's so dark that the white-on-black sights don't provide adequate contrast & visibility, then I probably can't see my target well enough for a positive ID

If you could complete just one evening of nighttime training, I believe your view would be more welcoming to night sights. Until you fire a few mags in natural night lighting (or lack thereof) and realistic attack situations, you cannot truly appreciate night sights.

j-glock22
04-04-2011, 19:46
All of mine have NS. Daytime and well lit situations the dots suffice. In low light to very low light it is easy for me to sight in..... Im satisfied with them and i do use front green yellow rear although it doesnt seem to make that much difference as some have mentioned it is more muscle memory than anything.

Captains1911
04-04-2011, 20:18
Urban myth.
Pick up your pistol and deliberately mis-align the front sight to the point where it is outside the rear dots.
You have to tweak your wrist to the point that's it's obvious something isn't right.
If it doesn't feel totally foreign to you when you mis-align the sights to that extent, you need more trigger time not different colored lamps.

I just tried it and you really don't have to tweak your wrists all that much to mis-ailgn the sights, at least not my trijis on a G19/G23. I can easily see how it could happen in a stressful situation.

bobelk99
04-04-2011, 20:29
What you wrote is very true. In fact, in total darkness faced by an attacker, when our adrenaline is flowing and tunnel vision is closing in, it's not unheard of to mistake the wrong dot of a three-dot night sight for the one on the front sight if all three dots are the same color. For that reason alone, I much prefer a two-dot system with green on the front sight and a contrasting, dimmer color (yellow or orange) at the rear sight.

I don't agree with the misalignment concept if the shooter is trained in nighttime conditions, but I totally agree with front sight being of a different color, regardless of competence of shooter.

Neal
04-09-2011, 06:50
I don't agree with the misalignment concept if the shooter is trained in nighttime conditions, but I totally agree with front sight being of a different color, regardless of competence of shooter.

Several years ago I took a 3 dot night sights gun out into my very dark garage at night and did some presentations. I could tell that it would be likely to get the dots confused in a panic situation. Since then I have bought only non-3 dot sights.

gh0st614
04-09-2011, 09:34
Several years ago I took a 3 dot night sights gun out into my very dark garage at night and did some presentations. I could tell that it would be likely to get the dots confused in a panic situation. Since then I have bought only non-3 dot sights.

This is another reason why I stuck with the Green/Green with my I Dot Pros. I simply cant put the rear dot on top of the front dot. Its just not possible no matter how much you try.

Neal
04-09-2011, 10:07
This is another reason why I stuck with the Green/Green with my I Dot Pros. I simply cant put the rear dot on top of the front dot. Its just not possible no matter how much you try.

I agree with you and have a set of Heinie Straight 8 Slant Pros on a Colt 1911. However, for my new Glock 31, I am going to try a set of Ameriglo I Dot Pros with green/yellow. My thought is the brighter green front will be dominant and draw my eye to it just a nanosecond quicker. Waiting for Ameriglo to have the green/yellow available.

barefoot
04-10-2011, 11:15
Ok - as OP, I should probably post the answer I found to my own question: I got a new 27 and had them put trijicon 3-dot sights on and I found that in my home's dim hallway (a likely self-defence scenario), the night sights were much more visible than the plain white dot of the stock sights.

NMGlocker
04-13-2011, 17:44
I just tried it and you really don't have to tweak your wrists all that much to mis-ailgn the sights, at least not my trijis on a G19/G23. I can easily see how it could happen in a stressful situation.
Several years ago I took a 3 dot night sights gun out into my very dark garage at night and did some presentations. I could tell that it would be likely to get the dots confused in a panic situation. Since then I have bought only non-3 dot sights.
Then you need to shoot more because your grip and presentations suck.

1smoothredneck
04-13-2011, 17:50
Night sights on all my serious ccw stuff. As Massad Ayoob says, if the shadowy figure in the night screams" Die Infidel American!!" and you see muzzle flash, the target is properly identified. And they really help in low light and diffused light settings more than enough to justify$$. just my .$02. Be Safe

bobelk99
04-13-2011, 18:49
Then you need to shoot more because your grip and presentations suck.

What I was unwilling to say.

If you are dealing with/using deadly weapons, especially firearms, you need to develop a level of skill that makes it unlikely there will be a 'panic mood'. Not doing so is unfair to yourself, and loved ones if they are involved.

I have gone to more than one house where one family member shot another 'accidentally' in the dark of night. Panic?