Hilton's review of the E-Series [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Hokie1911
03-31-2011, 20:37
http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=95222#Post95222

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php?ubb=download&Number=7453&filename=SWE30.jpg

Hokie1911
03-31-2011, 20:38
One of his comments on his FB page about the review...

"S&W advised me that they are using my review to propose some production changes. I will provide updates when appropriate."

drc767
03-31-2011, 20:55
Sorry....that thing is Fugly...

Hokie1911
03-31-2011, 20:59
Sorry....that thing is Fugly...

Quack, Knedrgr, Lawdog, and I went to a show a last weekend and they had a bobtail one there. It was fuglier in person, and the serrated MSH was as slippery as K-Y.

Mr. Gekko
03-31-2011, 20:59
Sorry....that thing is Fugly...

I agree.

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
03-31-2011, 21:18
Leave it to the beretta nut to say that he kinda likes the way that one looks :)

MD357
03-31-2011, 22:27
Disappointing.

lawdog734
03-31-2011, 23:42
I was disappointed when I read the review. Bud's police has one for 6 something but I think I'll just keep saving.

R0CKETMAN
04-01-2011, 03:52
Sorry....that thing is Fugly...

Agreed, on looks...it doesn't have to be either. Easy fixes

knedrgr
04-01-2011, 04:19
maybe Chuck can turn it into a swan.

samuse
04-01-2011, 05:51
I thought the review was funny.

It broke down, malf'ed and wore out all the springs inside 1K rounds, but it's almost ready for duty use right out of the box.

drc767
04-01-2011, 06:52
maybe Chuck can turn it into a swan.

Nothing like a 2k plus S&W 1911.....the term "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind. :)

Agent6-3/8
04-01-2011, 08:39
Sorry....that thing is Fugly...

Ain't that the truth! :puking:




I thought the review was funny.

It broke down, malf'ed and wore out all the springs inside 1K rounds, but it's almost ready for duty use right out of the box.


I thought that was odd as well. In its price range that are a lot of "known performers" I'd choose first, even if the S&W was fugly.

d90king
04-01-2011, 08:44
Pass on any 1911 with an EE... The only guy I trust building one with an EE right now would be Paul from Pistol Dynamics.

When I see Hilton building HIS 1911 with an EE then I would view his "first impression" with a little less cynicism...

knedrgr
04-01-2011, 09:31
Nothing like a 2k plus S&W 1911.....the term "lipstick on a pig" comes to mind. :)

agree 110%! I'll stick with my cheaper fugly M&P9.

mrsurfboard
04-01-2011, 10:03
Pass on any 1911 with an EE... The only guy I trust building one with an EE right now would be Paul from Pistol Dynamics.

When I see Hilton building HIS 1911 with an EE then I would view his "first impression" with a little less cynicism...

Given all the issues with internal extractors, the external one makes more sense. And the issue here was a roll pin coming loose, an easy fix for S&W. I'd put that up against worrying about tuning, clocking and hook geometry that internal ones have.

d90king
04-01-2011, 10:16
Given all the issues with internal extractors, the external one makes more sense. And the issue here was a roll pin coming loose, an easy fix for S&W. I'd put that up against worrying about tuning, clocking and hook geometry that internal ones have.

What's the problem with internal extractors? In hundreds of thousand of rounds down range with 1911's and a lot of hard use classes I haven't experienced any. If it needs to be tuned it takes a matter off minutes. The only 1911's that I have seen with issues are 3.5" 1911's that I don't trust to begin with.

There isn't a single Master 1911 smith that uses external extractors for their builds including Hilton. I think that shows the level of confidence in a tried and true system that works and is easy to tune... If it was really problematic you would see Ned and others using EE...

Paul Liebenberg is the only guy that I would trust doing them and S&W is no Paul L when it comes to 1911's.

Quack
04-01-2011, 10:38
Given all the issues with internal extractors, the external one makes more sense. And the issue here was a roll pin coming loose, an easy fix for S&W. I'd put that up against worrying about tuning, clocking and hook geometry that internal ones have.

get the best of both worlds and use the Aftec extractor

MD357
04-01-2011, 11:17
Given all the issues with internal extractors, the external one makes more sense. And the issue here was a roll pin coming loose, an easy fix for S&W. I'd put that up against worrying about tuning, clocking and hook geometry that internal ones have.

Usually you have to go to a gunshop to hear retarded crap like this.

Jim Watson
04-01-2011, 11:24
Get spare parts from the manufacturer, and put them away for later.

Good policy, but I once read that S&W will not sell you a SW1911 extractor because you don't have the gauge and torsion wrench to properly install it.
So much for unfitted parts, it seems. Maybe they have changed their policy with the PC extractor. I always thought it strange they had two extractors, one for the standard guns, one for the PC. Seems the PC knew best after all.

quantico
04-01-2011, 13:00
Given all the issues with internal extractors, the external one makes more sIense. And the issue here was a roll pin coming loose, an easy fix for S&W. kimber had nightmares from external extractors, and although as you said internals can also have issues..... Most all of my 1911s just run perfectly from new to 80thousand plus rounds in my pistols... So once set up they just work. I dont like the look of externals on 1911s.

quantico
04-01-2011, 13:05
The 80 thousand round mark did not suddenly start problems , but is where I chose to do overall maint on a couple 1911 pistols.

Shipwreck-The-Sequel
04-01-2011, 13:54
I agree that the gun has some issues that need fixing...

mrsurfboard
04-01-2011, 15:16
kimber had nightmares from external extractors, and although as you said internals can also have issues..... Most all of my 1911s just run perfectly from new to 80thousand plus rounds in my pistols... So once set up they just work. I dont like the look of externals on 1911s.

Just because Kimber couldn't make it work doesn't mean others can't.

mrsurfboard
04-01-2011, 15:17
Usually you have to go to a gunshop to hear retarded crap like this.

No, I just have to come here. I can't tell you how many post I've read with people having internal extractor problems.

mrsurfboard
04-01-2011, 15:21
What's the problem with internal extractors? In hundreds of thousand of rounds down range with 1911's and a lot of hard use classes I haven't experienced any. If it needs to be tuned it takes a matter off minutes. The only 1911's that I have seen with issues are 3.5" 1911's that I don't trust to begin with.

There isn't a single Master 1911 smith that uses external extractors for their builds including Hilton. I think that shows the level of confidence in a tried and true system that works and is easy to tune... If it was really problematic you would see Ned and others using EE...

Paul Liebenberg is the only guy that I would trust doing them and S&W is no Paul L when it comes to 1911's.

I think this has a lot more to do with tradition then anything else. To some a 1911 isn't a 1911 with an external extractor. I personally don't care either way, my Kimber has an internal and it works, but it seems the external set up is easier to maintain then a bent piece of metal wedged into the slide.

d90king
04-01-2011, 15:26
I think this has a lot more to do with tradition then anything else. To some a 1911 isn't a 1911 with an external extractor. I personally don't care either way, my Kimber has an internal and it works, but it seems the external set up is easier to maintain then a bent piece of metal wedged into the slide.

You wont find a more "non traditional" smith than Ned Christianson and if he felt it was an improvement he would do it in a minute... Like I said Paul is the only guy around that will do it and he does it very well.

I am not implying that it cant be made to work and run reliably, but it is not an improvement to a proven configuration.

sheepdog
04-01-2011, 17:29
If anyone can make an EE run, it is Smith, they have about a million autos out there with them and lots of years experience. Seems like if you can do it in a M39-2 up to a 1066 gun and everything in between, you can make it work in a 1911. I have seen the underside of a large number of S&W autos, and have never seen an extractor pin work it's way out like that one in the test did. Usually, they are borderline permanent and many punches are accidentally converted into "starter punches" if you have to replace a S&W extractor.

MD357
04-01-2011, 22:55
No, I just have to come here. I can't tell you how many post I've read with people having internal extractor problems.

Does it escape you that the whole article was written where an EE's pin fell out? This very extractor was an "answer" to a previous S&W design that couldn't withstand high round counts.

Kimber re-designed their EE 4 times before going back to the internal design.

Now regardless of your anecdotal "I saw it on a gun board", evidence leads towards the facts that the internal design seems to have worked for 100 years for a vast majority of 1911 companies and smiths.



I think this has a lot more to do with tradition then anything else.

This shows an amount of ignorance concerning why the top smiths do what they do. In fact some have posted high round count guns and detailed reports of what breaks and what doesn't. Lots of these guys build guns for guys that head into harms way.