What load data for plated FMJ or Lead??? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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justinsaneok
04-06-2011, 19:59
Or right in the middle. Someone told me to use lead data for the plated stuff. Why it's closer to FMJ if you asked me. But what do I know? Nothing! So I'm asking the experts.

cole
04-06-2011, 21:45
Determine OAL and stick to it.

Start with lead data. Load 10. Bump 2-3gr and repeat to cover lead charge range.

End at FMJ data. Load 10. Bump and repeat to half FMJ charge range.

Test starting at least charge weight.

I've always ended up somewhere in FMJ data for plated. Your results may vary.

XDRoX
04-06-2011, 21:47
People say to use lead data beacuse it's safer. IME it is much closer to FMJ data according to my chronograph and my manuals.

fredj338
04-06-2011, 21:47
Most plated bullets are soft lead slugs w/ micro thin copper plating. It is a non leading lead bullet for all intents. They really load between a lead & FMJ of the same weights. So using lead data keeps you out of over pressure situations. It will vary form caliber to caliber, but a bit higher than lead data or a bit lower than jacketed.

firefighter4215
04-07-2011, 07:50
I've been using just the starting load for fmj, and that seems to be working ok so far in the .40 and .38. It definitely keeps the bullets below 1200 fps.

Boxerglocker
04-07-2011, 09:05
Determine OAL and stick to it.

Start with lead data. Load 10. Bump 2-3gr and repeat to cover lead charge range.

End at FMJ data. Load 10. Bump and repeat to half FMJ charge range.

Test starting at least charge weight.

I've always ended up somewhere in FMJ data for plated. Your results may vary.

I usually find a charge between the FMJ and Lead data that overlap start on the low side of that. Like in Cole's case it usually is in the FMJ data low/mid range that I end up at. I gave up on super light gamer loads to much effort chasing PF and in my experience the accuracy always sucked, particularly with the heavier bullets.

DWARREN123
04-07-2011, 10:00
Really depends on the bullet. Some are double plated and some are really thin plated. Start where you feel comfortable and work up or down from there.
I run mine at around 1,000 FPS (Rainier) and have had no problems in 40 cal or 10mm.

fredj338
04-07-2011, 11:05
Really depends on the bullet. Some are double plated and some are really thin plated. Start where you feel comfortable and work up or down from there.
I run mine at around 1,000 FPS (Rainier) and have had no problems in 40 cal or 10mm.

The double palted or double struck do load closer to jacketed than lead. I think Xdrox loads DS Berry's. They all will take vel to 1200fps or so, beyond that, accuracy seems to suffer. Watch your crimp on any palted bullet, that really screws w/ your accuracy. I have seen plating trip off & impact close range targets from overcrimped rounds.

justinsaneok
04-07-2011, 18:44
The double palted or double struck do load closer to jacketed than lead. I think Xdrox loads DS Berry's. They all will take vel to 1200fps or so, beyond that, accuracy seems to suffer. Watch your crimp on any palted bullet, that really screws w/ your accuracy. I have seen plating trip off & impact close range targets from overcrimped rounds.

Funny you said watch the crimp because I was playing with the crimp and determined I could crimp to .378 without marking the bullet from over crimping. They fall right into the LW barrel chamber. Got to love the bullet puller. I only put a mark on one so I threw it in the melt bucket. I'm using 231 for 9mm and unique for .40. I found some really conflicting data for the 165gr bullet for .40 with unique starting and max loads max 6 in one book and 7.2 in another thats a big spread.

fredj338
04-07-2011, 18:54
Funny you said watch the crimp because I was playing with the crimp and determined I could crimp to .378 without marking the bullet from over crimping. They fall right into the LW barrel chamber. Got to love the bullet puller. I only put a mark on one so I threw it in the melt bucket. I'm using 231 for 9mm and unique for .40. I found some really conflicting data for the 165gr bullet for .40 with unique starting and max loads max 6 in one book and 7.2 in another thats a big spread.
That is the issue though, the data is for jacketed, not plated. Use the lead data, it;s safer. I can tell you 6gr of Unique under a 165gr Berry's is really accurate, makes 975fps in my 4006.

HAMMERHEAD
04-07-2011, 18:57
I use jacketed data for plated and stay at least 10% below the max.

Poppa Bear
04-07-2011, 19:02
If you have a chronograph use it. If you do not see if you can borrow one.

I posted on another thread about the load I am working on now using True Blue. Short version is I picked a charge weight and then varied OAL between 1.11 to 1.13 and measured the average velocity. Changing the charge by .2 grains made a 50 FPS difference in velocity. Most loads were about 25 FPS difference changing the OAL by .01.

I will load 10 rounds of each and determine which ones work the best. If none of the loads are where I want them then I just change the charge weight a bit more and vary the OAL. Between the two I will find the OAL and powder charge that gives me what I want out of the cartridge.

None of this is possible without a chronograph.

fredj338
04-07-2011, 20:37
I use jacketed data for plated and stay at least 10% below the max.

Which is around lead data??:supergrin:

fredj338
04-07-2011, 20:39
If you have a chronograph use it. If you do not see if you can borrow one.

I posted on another thread about what I am working on now. Short version is I pick a charge weight and then vary OAL between 1.11 to 1.13 and measure the average velocity. Changing charge by .2 grains makes a 50 FPS difference in velocity. Most loads are about 25 FPS difference changing the OAL by .01.I will load 10 rounds of each and determine which ones work the best. If none of the loads are where I want them then I just change the charge weight a bit more and vary the OAL. Between the two I will find the OAL and powder charge that gives me what I want out of the cartridge.

None of this is possible without a chronograph.
I saw this before & you are making some assumptions. WHile your specific caliber, powder & bullet choice, along w/ charge wt, may yield those results, it's not universal or linear. I have run many such tests w/ diff calibers & it's very caliber & bullet specifc. Example, shortening OAL in the 45acp & a medium burner like Unique, shows little vel change until you shorten OAL by some 0.05". Adding powder though changes vel/pressure more quickly. More so w/ heavy for caliber bullets & less so w/ light for caliber bullets. The large volumn & bore dia change the equasion.:wavey:

MinervaDoe
04-07-2011, 20:49
Here is a link to the Accurate Arms Load Data site:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

I post it because for some cartridges, they list loads for Berry and Ranier plated bullets. There are the first published loads for plated bullets that I have seen. Note that there are sometimes large differences between hollow points and truncated rounds, so be careful not to generalize if you don't have the exact bullet listed.

justinsaneok
04-07-2011, 21:02
Here is a link to the Accurate Arms Load Data site:
http://www.accuratepowder.com/load-data/

I post it because for some cartridges, they list loads for Berry and Ranier plated bullets. There are the first published loads for plated bullets that I have seen. Note that there are sometimes large differences between hollow points and truncated rounds, so be careful not to generalize if you don't have the exact bullet listed.

Thats a good find right there. I checked the websites of the powder I was using and they are all gold dot. That will come in handy when I get some AA#5 and #7. I plan on getting some soon and trying it out.

Poppa Bear
04-07-2011, 21:44
I saw this before & you are making some assumptions. WHile your specific claiber, powder & bullet choice, along w/ charge wt, may yield those results, it's not universal or linear. I have run many such tests w/ diff calibers & it's very caliber & bullet specifc. Example, shortening OAL in the 45acp & a medium burner like Unique, shows little vel change until you shorten OAL by some 0.05". Adding powder though changes vel/pressure more quickly. More so w/ heavy for caliber bullets & less so w/ light for caliber bullets. The large volumn & bore dia change the equasion.:wavey:

Fred you are an experienced reloader so I am preaching to the choir here. Actually I should have made myself clearer. The powder I am playing with right now is True Blue. I intentionally have not given what charge I am using because every gun is different and what I am loading might not work for a different gun.

The point I was really trying to make is that a good chronograph can give you the necessary information to help you tailor your load. There are many things you can learn by looking at the expended case, primer etc. But being able to quantify what kind of changes can be expected as you change OAL and charge weight for a specific powder makes it a lot easier to determine how much you can change things and still stay safe.

An example of this is AA-7 has a start load of around 7 grains and a max load of around 9.5 if you are using a 180 grain bullet. 231 shows a start of around 4 grains and a max of around 5.6 grains for the same bullet. Changing your charge by .5 grains will have a bigger impact with 231 than with the AA-7. I would expect the same to be true for OAL. Changing your OAL from 1.13 to 1.12 could be dangerous if you are near the max for 231, but by quantifying the changes with a chronograph before you approach that max charge can help you avoid a potentially dangerous load.

:cheers:

fredj338
04-07-2011, 23:47
Fred you are an experienced reloader so I am preaching to the choir here. Actually I should have made myself clearer. The powder I am playing with right now is True Blue. I intentionally have not given what charge I am using because every gun is different and what I am loading might not work for a different gun.

The point I was really trying to make is that a good chronograph can give you the necessary information to help you tailor your load. There are many things you can learn by looking at the expended case, primer etc. But being able to quantify what kind of changes can be expected as you change OAL and charge weight for a specific powder makes it a lot easier to determine how much you can change things and still stay safe.

An example of this is AA-7 has a start load of around 7 grains and a max load of around 9.5 if you are using a 180 grain bullet. 231 shows a start of around 4 grains and a max of around 5.6 grains for the same bullet. Changing your charge by .5 grains will have a bigger impact with 231 than with the AA-7. I would expect the same to be true for OAL. Changing your OAL from 1.13 to 1.12 could be dangerous if you are near the max for 231, but by quantifying the changes with a chronograph before you approach that max charge can help you avoid a potentially dangerous load.

:cheers:
All true. It's just your earlier post sounded like OAL vs pressure was a definitive thing & it just varies so much w/ caliber/bullet/powder chosen. In many instances, upto 0.20" shorter OAL does little or nothing to pressures. I agree, a chronograph is avery useful tool. I have had one since they used paper screens! Yeah, I am that old. Still have all my fingers & both eyes, first handgun too, must be doing something right.:supergrin:

Poppa Bear
04-08-2011, 10:10
All true. It's just your earlier post sounded like OAL vs pressure was a definitive thing & it just varies so much w/ caliber/bullet/powder chosen. In many instances, upto 0.20" shorter OAL does little or nothing to pressures. I agree, a chronograph is avery useful tool. I have had one since they used paper screens! Yeah, I am that old. Still have all my fingers & both eyes, first handgun too, must be doing something right.:supergrin:

We chronographed a guy on Monday that knew his loads were hot but did not know how hot. He was averaging 1450 fps out of his 9mm loads. For a 9x19 that is pushing the upper limits of load.

This should also have the standard disclaimer of do not try this at home. The man in question is an experienced reloader, shooting these loads out of an open Glock.

I am not sure if he was shooting a 115 grain and just making major, or shooting a 124 and well over major.

fredj338
04-08-2011, 13:49
This should also have the standard disclaimer of do not try this at home. The man in question is an experienced reloader, shooting these loads out of an open Glock.

I am not sure if he was shooting a 115 grain and just making major, or shooting a 124 and well over major.
Get a bigger gun, really, regardless of who does it, it's a foolish practice. Loading 9mm major like that is well over +P+ pressures, well over 357sig pressures. Just shoot a 357sig.:dunno:

Poppa Bear
04-08-2011, 16:45
That is why I shoot a .40 Limited.

Most other open guys are shooting 9x21, 38 Super or Super Comp. He knows the risk he is taking at this level of pressure.

fredj338
04-09-2011, 09:47
That is why I shoot a .40 Limited.

Most other open guys are shooting 9x21, 38 Super or Super Comp. He knows the risk he is taking at this level of pressure.
Yeah, you want to shoot 9mm major, get a 357sig bbl & pretty easy to get 1350fps w/ a 125gr bullet & you lose what, 2rds?:dunno:

Kwesi
04-09-2011, 12:22
An example of this is AA-7 has a start load of around 7 grains and a max load of around 9.5 if you are using a 180 grain bullet.

Poppa Bear: just curious as to the source of your max of 9.5gr of AA#7, 180 gr? Not sure what projectile your using but I chrono'd 10.8gr (not max per the manuals) at 1220 out of my CA89-10mm (longer barrel than Glock). My OAL was 1.25. I'm a newbie that has only been reloading 1 yr. Just trying to learn something here. Sorry is this is considered hijacking the thread, if so please have the mods delete.

Poppa Bear
04-09-2011, 14:01
My spread was for the .40 S&W. A 10mm shows 8.5 to 12 as its spread.

HAMMERHEAD
04-09-2011, 15:41
Which is around lead data??:supergrin:
Yeah, pretty much. One should be a good check for the other.

shotgunred
04-09-2011, 19:04
I usually find a charge between the FMJ and Lead data that overlap start on the low side of that. Like in Cole's case it usually is in the FMJ data low/mid range that I end up at. I gave up on super light gamer loads to much effort chasing PF and in my experience the accuracy always sucked, particularly with the heavier bullets.

Have you tried any WST yet? I went through a hundred rounds today. Not nearly as soft as tightgroup. But it worked well with lead and was accurate enough for gun games. It filled a 40 case up halfway so it should fill a 9mm almost all the way.