Handloading for .30 M1 carbine [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Big Bore Fan
04-09-2011, 16:26
Hey guys, I will be buying an m1 carbine soon and wanted to know if anyone has any tips or do's and dont's for handloading. Know of a good powder to try? I've been loading .45acp for about a year now but no other calibers. This will be my next step in the loading world and sence I'm probably getting a USGI model I want to make sure to not blow it up.:whistling: Thanks for everyones help.

njl
04-09-2011, 19:20
I've had a couple of carbines from the CMP for a couple of years. I only just started reloading for them. I'm using Aguila brass (from Aguila I bought from CMP or Aim Surplus several years ago), Hodgdon H110 (AFAIK, it's the same powder as Winchester 296) powder, CCI small rifle magnum primers, and Remington 110gr JSP bullets.

Unlike .45, your .30 carbine brass will likely need to be trimmed after resizing...so plan to buy some kind of case trimmer if you don't already have one.

Mush
04-09-2011, 19:25
Love the 30 Carbine. The Lake City brass has a thick straight wall case that requires lube to size. I use Redding Sizing wax. The cases must be trimmed or the bolt will not go to battery. It head spaces on the case so OAL is important to be correct. I use H110 powder with a 110 gn FMJ. Some say you must use a magnum primer with H110 but regular small rifle primer has worked for me. I'm told 2400 powder works well also. The case is tall and can be top heavy when you place the bullet on the case when loading so hold on to the case until the bullet is pressed in.

I read about the lack of penatrating power. To test this, I placed 9 inches of dry phone books at 50 yards and shot my minimum reloads with FMJ's into the phone books. The bullet went in almost all 9 inches. I tried some remanufactured soft points that mushroomed and went in almost 7 inches and opened up to just over an inch hole.

njl
04-09-2011, 20:29
It's got about 3x the muzzle energy of a typical 9mm. I'm sure it would suck to be hit by one...especially with soft point bullets.

GIockGuy24
04-09-2011, 20:34
I had a Ruger Blackhawk revolver in 30 Carbine. A full charge of IMR-4227 would stick the cases in the cylinder. A full charge of H-110/W-296 would beat IMR-4227 in velocity and the cases would just fall loose from the cylinder. I believe 2400 was one of the powders tried in 30 Carbine during WWII. In a carbine H-110 just works and gives the right velocity. During the Korean War most all 30 Carbine ammo that was loaded was loaded underpowered and the cold Winters only made that worse. Winchester SR and CCI 450 primers are made for ball powders but H-110 most likely isn't as hard to light as rifle powders. There is also Accurate Arms #9 powder that can be used. Current IMR-4227 is made in Australia and the IMR-3227 I tried was made in Canada. Hodgdon says the load data is safe to interchange. For the current IMR-4227 I would use H-4227 load data though. The IMR-4227 load data at Hodgdon has not been changed or updated since changing to Australian power. The newer powder may work better hopefully. I have used it in other cartridges. It is now the same as old H-4227 except it's dyed black. I didn't consider the old IMR-4227 a good choice for 30 Carbine.

Big Bore Fan
04-09-2011, 20:58
I read about the lack of penatrating power. To test this, I placed 9 inches of dry phone books at 50 yards and shot my minimum reloads with FMJ's into the phone books. The bullet went in almost all 9 inches. I tried some remanufactured soft points that mushroomed and went in almost 7 inches and opened up to just over an inch hole.

Growing up with my grandparents living next door my grandfather and I would walk the farm shooting groundhogs with his m1. I neaver heard one G.H. complain about the softpoints.:supergrin:

So other than trimming the cases everything else should be the same as when I load .45acp?

GIockGuy24
04-09-2011, 21:11
Oh yeah, the published "trim length" is usually too long for M1 Carbines. It should at least 0.005" shorter than that and maybe 0.010" shorter but I think 0.005" shorter than published trim length is right. I'll have to check my records.
Found it. The often published trim length is 1.285". The cases must be trimmed to 1.280" for reliable function in all Carbine barrels. 15.0 grains of W-296 or H-110 with a 110 grain bullet never caused pressure problem in my Blackhawk like maximum IMR-4227 loads did. W-296 and H-110 give the highest velocities and is accurate. AA#9 is also accurate with both 110 and 100 grain bullets.

Here is some good reading on loading 30 Carbine.

http://www.thecmp.org/pdfs/CMP_Carbine_Notes_2007.pdf

njl
04-09-2011, 22:39
One other difference...even if you have carbide dies, it's very highly recommended/required that you lube before resizing.

Big Bore Fan
04-09-2011, 23:23
One other difference...even if you have carbide dies, it's very highly recommended/required that you lube before resizing.

Why the need for lube with carbide dies? I thought that was what the carbide was for.

njl
04-09-2011, 23:29
Something to do with it being a slightly tapered case.

dudel
04-10-2011, 05:26
A fun round.

1) Carbide dies help. Lee has the least expensive.

2) Lube the cases (even with carbide).

3) I use a lot of H110, but am switching over to 2400. 2400 is much cleaner than H110, plus you use less per round. Clean is good with a gas OS.

4) Lead is ok for revolvers, it's less ok for the carbine with it's gas system. Plated work fine (I use Berrys), but keep the speed down for plinking.

5) If loading on a progressive, go a bit slower. The tall cases tend to wobble a bit more than the stubbier ones, so you don't always hit the mouth of the die as easily.

HTH

Big Bore Fan
04-10-2011, 06:53
Thanks for the help guys. Looks like there are a few things that need to be added to the reloading bench.

Mush
04-10-2011, 06:56
Growing up with my grandparents living next door my grandfather and I would walk the farm shooting groundhogs with his m1. I neaver heard one G.H. complain about the softpoints.:supergrin:

So other than trimming the cases everything else should be the same as when I load .45acp?

It would be a great walk around/truck two or four legged varmit rifle. Illegal to hunt with in Penna.

I dont lube 45 ACP but you must lube each 30 Carbine. The pull on the reloading handle can be "Firm" even with the lube. I went to the resizing wax after becomming too practiced with stuck cases when using spray on lube.

Big Bore Fan
04-10-2011, 07:17
Got any sugestions on a decent trimmer that's not to expencive? I just looked on Midway, they seem to be on the high side for somthing that sits on a table and has a handle that's turned.:dunno:

dudel
04-10-2011, 07:28
Got any sugestions on a decent trimmer that's not to expencive? I just looked on Midway, they seem to be on the high side for somthing that sits on a table and has a handle that's turned.:dunno:

I like the Wilson trimmer. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=487924

Out of stock at Midway; but Sinclair has them.

Jon_R
04-10-2011, 07:30
Got any sugestions on a decent trimmer that's not to expencive? I just looked on Midway, they seem to be on the high side for somthing that sits on a table and has a handle that's turned.:dunno:

How much volume do you want? For my M1 Carbine brass I just use this. It is slow but is ok for me.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=476992

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=251723

For powder I use Win 296. Research at CMP showed it to be the same or same specs to replicate the GI load designed for the rifle. I just use it to poke holes in paper and an occasional 3-gun.

GIockGuy24
04-10-2011, 16:44
Ruger says not to use lead bullets in 30 Carbine revolvers because the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth and lead tends to build up in that area of the cylinder which then causes the cartridges to sit too high in the cylinder and jam the revolver. I like the Speer 30 Carbine bullets but most others are good too.

dudel
04-10-2011, 16:55
Ruger says not to use lead bullets in 30 Carbine revolvers because the cartridge headspaces on the case mouth and lead tends to build up in that area of the cylinder which then causes the cartridges to sit too high in the cylinder and jam the revolver. I like the Speer 30 Carbine bullets but most others are good too.

9mm and 45 ACP headspace on the casemouth. Lots of lead used there.

I suppose the key is the proper selection of projectile that doesn't have a diameter greater than the case mouth. Hmm, trying to think of a projectile that has a diameter greater than the case mouth, and I'm coming up empty.

Mush
04-10-2011, 17:13
H110 and W296 are the same powder according to Hodgdon. Many referecnes on the net to people who called the powder company with the same answer.

GIockGuy24
04-10-2011, 17:18
9mm and 45 ACP headspace on the casemouth. Lots of lead used there.

I suppose the key is the proper selection of projectile that doesn't have a diameter greater than the case mouth. Hmm, trying to think of a projectile that has a diameter greater than the case mouth, and I'm coming up empty.

This explains it pretty well.

http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/blackhawk.pdf

Notes on Revolvers Chambered for 9mm or .30 Carbine: Use only metal jacketed bullets in 9mm and .30 Carbine revolvers. When a lead bullet is fired, its base expands and a ring of lead is shaved off and deposited in the shoulder area of the chamber. A build-up of lead rings can prevent proper chambering of cartridges because 9mm and .30 Carbine cartridge mouths seat on the chamber shoulders.

njl
04-10-2011, 17:22
hmm, trying to think of a projectile that has a diameter greater than the case mouth, and i'm coming up empty.

.22 s/l/lr

dudel
04-10-2011, 17:26
.22 s/l/lr


Yep. Now one that you reload. And before it's fired!

dudel
04-10-2011, 17:39
This explains it pretty well.

http://www.ruger.com/products/_manuals/blackhawk.pdf

Notes on Revolvers Chambered for 9mm or .30 Carbine: Use only metal jacketed bullets in 9mm and .30 Carbine revolvers. When a lead bullet is fired, its base expands and a ring of lead is shaved off and deposited in the shoulder area of the chamber. A build-up of lead rings can prevent proper chambering of cartridges because 9mm and .30 Carbine cartridge mouths seat on the chamber shoulders.

Someone ought to tell Mike Venturino. His last writeup in Handloader was for .30 Carb with cast boolits in Ruger revolver.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=66517

and
http://fmgpublications.ipaperus.com/FMGPublications/AmericanHandgunner/AHND09/?Page=56 (pages 56-57)

njl
04-10-2011, 18:30
Yep. Now one that you reload. And before it's fired!

Dillon doesn't make a .22LR conversion? :rofl: