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High Altitude
04-18-2011, 23:23
Hi guys, I am researching both presses and I am wondering, why would you purchase a 550b over a LNL.

With the LNL you can start with out a case feeder and then upgrade as money allowed. Be able to load both pistol and rifle with a case feeder. Costs less. Auto index. 5 vs 4 die stations. Very easy and not too costly to change calibers.

What advantages do you get with the 550b?

It seems you could start out with the LNL, upgrade to a case feeder if you ever wanted to for both pistol or rifle, load multiple calibers with out the high conversion cost that comes with the 650 and you get the extra die station if you want to use it. Seems very versatile and you wouldn't ever have to sell your press and upgrade, you just keep upgrading the press you already have.

Basically you start with an auto index 5 station 550b and then upgrade to a 650 with case feeder per se.

Seems like a good way to go if you want a progressive.

Boxerglocker
04-18-2011, 23:33
That's the old red vs blue debate. Do a search and you'll find many a argument. Pay particular attention to Colorado4wheel's posts regarding his experiences.
I really all depends on what your intentions are, how many different calibers, the gun you use, the primer you use... search and all will be told.
My personal view is if your intention is to go casefeeder in the end... the XL650 is the only way to go.

cole
04-18-2011, 23:46
The Blue one. Both work. But, I read/hear about more Red going Blue, hardly ever, actually can't recall one time, the other way around. That's a statement.

Me, I'm Blue. And, I freely admit I drink the Blue Kool-Aid. My simple reasons: 1) Blue works and 2) Blue's customer service is second to none. And, resale on Blue is stellar in case you ever want to upgrade.

m2hmghb
04-19-2011, 00:07
Personally I'm purple. I use lee dies on a dillon AT450 I upgraded to a 550.

kshutt
04-19-2011, 04:40
The advantage you get with the 550, is that it works. Don't get the LNL. Until Hornady hires some of Dillon's R&D personnel, I wouldn't take one of their presses again for free. Period. Get the 550 or 650, and don't look back.

ron59
04-19-2011, 05:16
The Blue one. Both work. But, I read/hear about more Red going Blue, hardly ever, actually can't recall one time, the other way around. That's a statement.


You haven't been on this forum long then?

Steve (C4W) was a longtime 550B user and sold it to buy a LNL within the last six months. However, he had problems, so now the factory is buying that one back and he has already ordered a 650.

Booyah.

IndyGunFreak
04-19-2011, 05:43
You haven't been on this forum long then?

Steve (C4W) was a longtime 550B user and sold it to buy a LNL within the last six months. However, he had problems, so now the factory is buying that one back and he has already ordered a 650.

Booyah.

Well, Steve would actually be classified as going Blue to Red, then back to Blue. :).

My personal opinion, just from the things I've read... If you have no intentions of a case feed, then the LNL will probably serve you fine. If you want a case feeder, then either save longer, and get a 650, or just accept that you're going to have to live w/o one for the time being. Again, just what I've read, the LNL nor the 550, implement a case feed very well.

YMMV.

IGF

Myke_Hart
04-19-2011, 05:50
Bottom line is if you are doing lots of caliber changes the LNL is the way to go.

What sets the LNL apart from the blue presses is the ability to do caliber changes on the cheap. The ability to move dies from press to press without having to change the die setup. The press uses bushings on your dies so the dies can also be shifted and switched to other presses or move the order around with no re-setup. Twist lock them in and your done.

I move the dies from my progressive to my RCBS single stage with just a twist of the die.

Now when you add the bullet feeder and case feeder you do add complications to the caliber changes, it just takes longer to reset but it is still fast enough.

If you are only loading one caliber there is no real advantage.

One more thing I like better than the blue guys is the hornady powder measure, with the micrometer insert. It is as good as I have ever gotten. Drops the same volume every time, doesn't leak or make a mess. Easy to change powders by twisting it to remove it and dumping it out.

Yes there has been a few blue users on here that have switched to the LNL.

It is a awesome press. They run excellent without any mods. Most mods that we do to our LNL's are little simple things to make the press a little more ergonomic and to make them run a little smoother for certain calibers.

I say you can not go wrong with a dillon or hornady progressive, they both have awesome customer service and will take care of any problems you encounter.

You should watch the videos on http://ultimatereloader.com/ to get a feel for both presses.

Here is my setup.
http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll264/myke_hart/reloading/IMG_1415.jpg

Glock30Eric
04-19-2011, 06:30
^ Wow, why do you need two set of LNLs? One for Pistol and other for Rifle?

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 07:17
Hi guys, I am researching both presses and I am wondering, why would you purchase a 550b over a LNL.

With the LNL you can start with out a case feeder and then upgrade as money allowed. Be able to load both pistol and rifle with a case feeder. Costs less. Auto index. 5 vs 4 die stations. Very easy and not too costly to change calibers.

What advantages do you get with the 550b?

It seems you could start out with the LNL, upgrade to a case feeder if you ever wanted to for both pistol or rifle, load multiple calibers with out the high conversion cost that comes with the 650 and you get the extra die station if you want to use it. Seems very versatile and you wouldn't ever have to sell your press and upgrade, you just keep upgrading the press you already have.

Basically you start with an auto index 5 station 550b and then upgrade to a 650 with case feeder per se.

Seems like a good way to go if you want a progressive.

Hornady owes me money. I am not going to rock the boat even a little.

Flipz
04-19-2011, 09:13
Both are great presses. Having said that, I have thousands of rounds through my LnL without any problems.

Boxerglocker
04-19-2011, 09:15
Both are great presses. Having said that, I have thousands of rounds through my LnL without any problems.

Just out of curiousity are you loading with a casefeeder and what is you average load rate with it?

StaTiK
04-19-2011, 09:27
Hi guys, I am researching both presses and I am wondering, why would you purchase a 550b over a LNL.

I'm probably going to buy a LNL, but here are the reasons why the 550 is still in the running:

Dillon has a long history of support. I'm not sure the Hornady Pro-Jector or Pro-7 is supported as well as older Dillons.
The 550 has been around a lot longer, so it is easier to find used presses slightly cheaper with a chance at a bargain. Its also easier to find people with 100k reloads through their press, which to me says a lot about the quality.
The 550 is manually indexed, which has the benefit of being simpler mechanically and therefore seems less likely to break. There's no timing to mess up.
All Dillon presses have great resale. If I were to buy a used one at a slight discount I have no doubt I could sell it later for at least the same amount. Thus, I can later upgrade (if needed) without the financial risk. Imagine being able to buy a car, drive the hell out of it for 5 years, and then upgrade and sell it for more than you bought it for.
The casefeeder system seems better on the 650. If you're not sure if you want/need a casefeeder then, considering resale listed above, buying a 550 and test driving it for a while is a viable option. I think I want a casefeeder, but after watching certain videos on Youtube (ie XDroX's) I'm really not convinced that I need it.
I agree with you that the one-handed LNL loading looks better than the 550's two-handed method. But, none of my friends have a LNL without casefeeder so I haven't tried it. Again, referencing XDroX's video, try to find a video of a one-handed LNL loader that looks as smooth and fast at a sustainable rate.

Again, most of this is conjecture. Hornady may very well be the equal with regards to quality, warranty, longevity, etc AND still be better certain ways. But at the end of the day I have no doubt that a 550 will work and be supported in 15 years, I have some reservation about the newer LNL.

Hope this helps.
-StaTiK-

shotgunred
04-19-2011, 15:16
I bought an LNL and kept it for 28 days and returned it in my 30 return period, Had I kept it longer I might have got used to it and liked it, But I had to make a timed choice. I just didn't find it better than the 550.
I like that it has a solid stable top vs a tool head.
I like one handed feeding.
I really liked the cheap caliber change cost.
I didn't like the powder throw system.
In the end (with the bullet feeder) I just didn't think it was equal to a 650.
So i swallowed a bit of my pride and the cost of caliber conversions and just went with the 650.
If I had to start over and chose between a 550 and a LNL well?

The 550 Is a proven press with a proven track record. So the safe sure bet is the 550. I might consider another LNL but not for several years time to see how they are holding up for the people who own them. Who am I kidding with Dillon's warranty I am never going to need a new press.

44terryberry
04-19-2011, 15:18
I thought you were talking about bench pressing 550 for a minute...

XDRoX
04-19-2011, 17:08
I'm probably going to buy a LNL, but here are the reasons why the 550 is still in the running:

Dillon has a long history of support. I'm not sure the Hornady Pro-Jector or Pro-7 is supported as well as older Dillons.
The 550 has been around a lot longer, so it is easier to find used presses slightly cheaper with a chance at a bargain. Its also easier to find people with 100k reloads through their press, which to me says a lot about the quality.
The 550 is manually indexed, which has the benefit of being simpler mechanically and therefore seems less likely to break. There's no timing to mess up.
All Dillon presses have great resale. If I were to buy a used one at a slight discount I have no doubt I could sell it later for at least the same amount. Thus, I can later upgrade (if needed) without the financial risk. Imagine being able to buy a car, drive the hell out of it for 5 years, and then upgrade and sell it for more than you bought it for.
The casefeeder system seems better on the 650. If you're not sure if you want/need a casefeeder then, considering resale listed above, buying a 550 and test driving it for a while is a viable option. I think I want a casefeeder, but after watching certain videos on Youtube (ie XDroX's) I'm really not convinced that I need it.
I agree with you that the one-handed LNL loading looks better than the 550's two-handed method. But, none of my friends have a LNL without casefeeder so I haven't tried it. Again, referencing XDroX's video, try to find a video of a one-handed LNL loader that looks as smooth and fast at a sustainable rate.

Again, most of this is conjecture. Hornady may very well be the equal with regards to quality, warranty, longevity, etc AND still be better certain ways. But at the end of the day I have no doubt that a 550 will work and be supported in 15 years, I have some reservation about the newer LNL.

Hope this helps.
-StaTiK-

El_Nino put that video up on YouTube for me. I can't believe its still there and I cant believe you've seen it.

You've inspired me to make another video. This time pistol. I think I'll see if I can load 100 9mm in under 15 minutes.

My press looks way different now. I added a lot of things to it.

GioaJack
04-19-2011, 17:13
Hornady has been around for 62 years... probably a good chance they'll be around when you need 'em.

Jack

Flipz
04-19-2011, 17:39
Just out of curiousity are you loading with a casefeeder and what is you average load rate with it?

Im not using a casefeeder yet, but will sometime soon. My loading pace is generally very relaxed, Im in no rush. I dont really need a casefeeder, but it would be nice to have one.

Ive never timed myself really. But if I had to take a guess maybe somewhere around 250 rounds an hour. I do a loading session just about every weekend.

Also, let me just say that Ive only been loading for around 6 months. The LnL was my first and only press. For me, its functioned like clockwork. Ive never had a problem with it. Everything was easy and self explanatory to setup, including the PTX expander. Setting up the dies and switching calibers couldnt be easier. Well maybe easier if Jack's butler was doing it for me, lol. All in all, I love the press and am very happy I got it.

My opinion is obviously based on only my experience with my LnL. Since I have never had a 550 I really cant say anything about it since I have no basis for comparison with the LnL. Its been said many times that the 550 is an excellent press, and Im sure it is. One thing I can say is that I have nothing bad to say about the LnL. Its functioned 100% for me. I think anyone would do well with either press, 550 or LnL.

Myke_Hart
04-19-2011, 17:43
^ Wow, why do you need two set of LNLs? One for Pistol and other for Rifle?

One set up for large primer/large cases the other for small primer/small cases.

I do not load any rifle on the LNL other than .223.

Rifle loading is very complex to do on a progressive without an expensive on press trimmer.

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 17:56
You've inspired me to make another video. This time pistol. I think I'll see if I can load 100 9mm in under 15 minutes.


I can safely load 100rds of 9mm on a 550 in under 8 mins. I can easily load 100rds of 9mm on a 550 in 10 mins. EASILY. It takes a while to get fast with a 550. It's not something you can force. But it is possible to get going pretty quick once the muscle memory kicks in.

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 18:01
Im not using a casefeeder yet, but will sometime soon. My loading pace is generally very relaxed, Im in no rush. I dont really need a casefeeder, but it would be nice to have one.

Ive never timed myself really. But if I had to take a guess maybe somewhere around 250 rounds an hour. I do a loading session just about every weekend.


Perfect example. If I was happy with 250rds in a hour I would have kept the LnL. But I was doing 200 rds in 20 mins with my 550, 5 days a week. I would leave the press setup for 9mm and just walk up to the machine, throw a charge or two and start loading. 20 mins later I had 200 rds and I quit and got on with my day. That was so I had my needed 1000 rds a week. It was a production thing. My LnL just didn't do that. It was always needing something and jamming every 20-30 rds. It never just let me crank the ammo out. It was not faster. It was a just something that tried my patience constantly. Unlike the 550 which just worked. Plus it wouldn't work with CCI primers. No mater how hard I would push.

XDRoX
04-19-2011, 18:06
I can safely load 100rds of 9mm on a 550 in under 8 mins. I can easily load 100rds of 9mm on a 550 in 10 mins. EASILY. It takes a while to get fast with a 550. It's not something you can force. But it is possible to get going pretty quick once the muscle memory kicks in.

I just made another video. I'm uploading it right now. Around round 70 I crushed a case because I didn't place it in right:embarassed:. I'll post a link when it uploads.

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 18:14
I just made another video. I'm uploading it right now. Around round 70 I crushed a case because I didn't place it in right:embarassed:. I'll post a link when it uploads.

Loading on a 550 is all about efficiency. My setup is not a strong mount setup but it's similar in placement. I think it's better but probably not enough to make much difference to a 550 with a strong mount and bullet and empty case bin. The other thing that adds some speed is to get used to seating the bullet before you index. You need to use the right amount of bell to avoid the bullet tipping as you index. But it's all about always moving both hands. I miss my 550. It was a great press. I hope I like my 650 as much as I liked my 550.

How fast are you loading now. I started off about 15 mins per hundred, then 12 seemed about my limit, then it went all the way to 8 mins if I did everything right, but 10 mins was very relaxed and always easy to do.

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 18:14
I just made another video. I'm uploading it right now. Around round 70 I crushed a case because I didn't place it in right:embarassed:. I'll post a link when it uploads.

Loading on a 550 is all about efficiency. My setup is not a strong mount setup but it's similar in placement. I think it's better but probably not enough to make much difference to a 550 with a strong mount and bullet and empty case bin. The other thing that adds some speed is to get used to seating the bullet before you index. You need to use the right amount of bell to avoid the bullet tipping as you index. But it's all about always moving both hands. I miss my 550. It was a great press. I hope I like my 650 as much as I liked my 550.

How fast are you loading now. I started off about 15 mins per hundred, then 12 seemed about my limit, then it went all the way to 8 mins if I did everything right, but 10 mins was very relaxed and always easy to do.

Post a link to your video.

XDRoX
04-19-2011, 18:22
Loading on a 550 is all about efficiency. My setup is not a strong mount setup but it's similar in placement. I think it's better but probably not enough to make much difference to a 550 with a strong mount and bullet and empty case bin. The other thing that adds some speed is to get used to seating the bullet before you index. You need to use the right amount of bell to avoid the bullet tipping as you index. But it's all about always moving both hands. I miss my 550. It was a great press. I hope I like my 650 as much as I liked my 550.

How fast are you loading now. I started off about 15 mins per hundred, then 12 seemed about my limit, then it went all the way to 8 mins if I did everything right, but 10 mins was very relaxed and always easy to do.

Post a link to your video.

I did 100 rounds in under 9 minutes. It'll take about 30 minutes to upload to youtube. I'll post it as soon as it uploads.

GioaJack
04-19-2011, 18:26
I just hate the anticipation in waiting for the World Premiere of a new movie. I do hope the production didn't go over budget and that the critics will be kind. :whistling:


Jack

XDRoX
04-19-2011, 18:37
I just hate the anticipation in waiting for the World Premiere of a new movie. I do hope the production didn't go over budget and that the critics will be kind. :whistling:


Jack

I did play some classic rock in the background, but it was radio. So I think most of it was DJ banter.

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 18:41
I did 100 rounds in under 9 minutes. It'll take about 30 minutes to upload to youtube. I'll post it as soon as it uploads.

Once you are doing that you can dial it back to 10 mins per hundred and it seems easy.

XDRoX
04-19-2011, 18:54
Here it is. I'm leaving to dinner right now. It not fully processed by youtube yet, but it should be in a few minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1hNT3BqR5I

GioaJack
04-19-2011, 19:04
You're too late, NCIS is on and then Top Shot. A successful World Premiere is always based on proper timing.


Jack

StaTiK
04-19-2011, 19:28
The other thing that adds some speed is to get used to seating the bullet before you index.

Another thing I've never seen. This always comes up as soon as someone says "powder check" or "double charge", but everyone i've seen load always indexes then seats the bullet.

Maybe XDroX will set the bar higher in his new video.

-StaTiK-

ETA: XDroX seats in station 3.

StaTiK
04-19-2011, 19:39
I did play some classic rock in the background, but it was radio. So I think most of it was DJ banter.

DJ Banter, love that guy!

-StaTiK-

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 19:57
Another thing I've never seen. This always comes up as soon as someone says "powder check" or "double charge", but everyone i've seen load always indexes then seats the bullet.

Maybe XDroX will set the bar higher in his new video.

-StaTiK-

ETA: XDroX seats in station 3.


It's not a big deal and it takes a little time to get used to doing it the other way. Dillon says to do it his way but the other way is faster. Notice when he is pulling the handle his left hand is not doing anything. Then he indexes and then grabs a bullet. My way you are pulling the handle and grabbing the next bullet while you pull the handle. As soon as your done priming the case you seat the bullet then index. Saves you hand movements.

Colorado4Wheel
04-19-2011, 20:04
I watched later part of his video and he was putting the bullet in his hand and indexing while holding the bullet. Might as well be the same thing. I just watched the first 28secs at first.

XDRoX
04-19-2011, 20:06
It's not a big deal and it takes a little time to get used to doing it the other way. Dillon says to do it his way but the other way is faster. Notice when he is pulling the handle his left hand is not doing anything. Then he indexes and then grabs a bullet. My way you are pulling the handle and grabbing the next bullet while you pull the handle. As soon as your done priming the case you seat the bullet then index. Saves you hand movements.

I actually did it both ways on purpose so you could see the difference. I crush a case at 6:55.

ryanm
04-19-2011, 21:08
Here it is. I'm leaving to dinner right now. It not fully processed by youtube yet, but it should be in a few minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1hNT3BqR5I

Thanks! I haven't actually seen a 550 in person, so that was helpful to understand how the manual indexing works.

PCJim
04-19-2011, 21:49
Don't you hate it when your rhythm gets interrupted. :cool:

PsychoKnight
04-19-2011, 22:14
Pay particular attention to Colorado4wheel's posts regarding his experiences.
.

Why Steve?

I think he would agree that his experiences are just as important as all other members here; not any more, not any less. He did a whole lot of patient research before deciding to choose LnL over a 650. Based on the info available to him, he made no mistake in his purchase. . His problems were unforseeable - . He didn't single-handedly change the statistics of LnL vs. Dillon. The un-attained happiness he sought with the LnL, I think he'll find with the 650. Generally, people seem happy regardless of which they got.

Jack got rid of not just one, for 2 LnL's to be replaced with a 1050. But if he didn't upgrade to a 1050, would he have continued to be happy w/ the pair of LnL's ?
(Jack, this is were you take your nicotine and whiskey dosage and chime in)

PsychoKnight
04-19-2011, 22:18
Don't you hate it when your rhythm gets interrupted. :cool:

Women's issues?

GioaJack
04-20-2011, 09:51
Why Steve?

I think he would agree that his experiences are just as important as all other members here; not any more, not any less. He did a whole lot of patient research before deciding to choose LnL over a 650. Based on the info available to him, he made no mistake in his purchase. . His problems were unforseeable - . He didn't single-handedly change the statistics of LnL vs. Dillon. The un-attained happiness he sought with the LnL, I think he'll find with the 650. Generally, people seem happy regardless of which they got.

Jack got rid of not just one, for 2 LnL's to be replaced with a 1050. But if he didn't upgrade to a 1050, would he have continued to be happy w/ the pair of LnL's ?
(Jack, this is were you take your nicotine and whiskey dosage and chime in)


Jack still has both his LNL's, each with a case feeder and one with the Hornady bullet feeder. One machine stays set up for .38 and other small primer rounds, the other machine is set up for 225 grain RN .45, (with the bullet feeder) and other large pistol primers.

I think the reason I really don't have an issue with the high primer problem that Little Stevie had is two fold; firstly I don't load nearly as fast as Stevie's time restraints require. Since I really don't have anything else to do with my time I'm perfectly comfortable with anywhere between 3 and 4 hundred per hour... even less if I'm just not physically up to it. Stevie needs a higher production rate with flawless operation.

Secondly, I shoot only hammer and firing pin style guns rather than striker fired which seem to be a little more susceptible to high primer situations. I've had way, way more high primers with my 1050's than I've ever had with either than my LNL's. This is in no way to say that they were the fault of the 1050's or their design. I had a series of high primers with the first one because I simply wasn't used to priming on the downstroke and didn't run the handle down far enough. Really didn't take long to learn to do it correctly.

My second 1050 loaded some 400 9's with high primers but again it was my fault not the machine's... I made the incorrect assumption that the seating depth had been adjusted correctly from the factory. I've since made the proper adjustment.

The bottom line is no matter what press one buys there will be the occasional problem... it's a piece of machinery, things go out of adjustment and wear out, that's why every manufacturer sells spare parts.

If you want perfection you'll have to hire me... and you probably can't afford it. :whistling:


Jack

fredj338
04-20-2011, 11:47
Another thing I've never seen. This always comes up as soon as someone says "powder check" or "double charge", but everyone i've seen load always indexes then seats the bullet.

Maybe XDroX will set the bar higher in his new video.

-StaTiK-

ETA: XDroX seats in station 3.
Either way is fine, as long as you are looking at your powder charge.
I load on a 550B & a 650. I have loaded some on the LNL. They all do a fine job in turning out ammo fast. If you want a case feeder, get a LNL or 650. If you want a very easy progressive to run & maintain, the 550B is tought to beat. I can easily do 400rds an hour sustained on a 550B. Upto 500rds/hr on short runs. All manual indexing, no case feeder. The LNL is about the same, but I seem to have far fewer issues than my buddies running LNL. The LNL case feeder isn't as good as the Dillon IMO, maybe you can fit the Dillon the the LNL, they seem nearly identical, the Dillon even hase a square mounting hole.:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
04-20-2011, 11:57
For the record. Even loading slow. No matter how hard I pressed the CCI's were still high. The entire ram would twist (LnL is hollow) and the punch would twist sideways a little as well. So when it seated them there was a high spot and low spot 180 degrees opposite. Those fired fine but I could not check them for "high primers" at all because they were all high on one side. I had a similar issue with some Remington primers in the past (I had 20K of them as well). Difference was when I pressed really hard the ram did not twist and they did not seat a little sideways like on the LnL. So it was easy to see any high ones but pushing as hard as I was on the 550 they never were high. The LnL flexed enough that I still had some small % that did not go bang. Usually in a match. Last time it was in a "timed fire" string that basically lost me a bunch of points. So we can say it was me going to fast or some other thing. But I have had similar issues arise with both the 550 and the LnL and because of the design of the LnL it could not be forced to make the primers seat properly where as the 550 could handle the force and was able to limp through the Remington primers and still work. I ended up having to reinforce the bench under the 550 so that it would generate the force needed but after that it worked fine with the amount of pressure needed.

Colorado4Wheel
04-20-2011, 11:59
Either way is fine, as long as you are looking at your powder charge.
I load on a 550B & a 650. I have loaded some on the LNL. They all do a fine job in turning out ammo fast. If you want a case feeder, get a LNL or 650. If you want a very easy progressive to run & maintain, the 550B is tought to beat. I can easily do 400rds an hour sustained on a 550B. Upto 500rds/hr on short runs. All manual indexing, no case feeder. The LNL is about the same, but I seem to have far fewer issues than my buddies running LNL. The LNL case feeder isn't as good as the Dillon IMO, maybe you can fit the Dillon the the LNL, they seem nearly identical, the Dillon even hase a square mounting hole.:dunno:

And on a forum they would probably sing the praises of the LnL. That's just what people seem to do.

fredj338
04-20-2011, 12:54
And on a forum they would probably sing the praises of the LnL. That's just what people seem to do.

No, we go around all the time. They like their LNL, they also like my Dillons. There are good & bad things about each design. The LNL is a good machine, but can be better, as is are the Dillons. Just depends on what each reloader wants/needs.:dunno: I need to build a hybrid; 1/2 650, 1/2 LNL. Even then, I am sure someone would prefer what they load on.

Flipz
04-20-2011, 13:40
Perfect example. If I was happy with 250rds in a hour I would have kept the LnL. But I was doing 200 rds in 20 mins with my 550, 5 days a week. I would leave the press setup for 9mm and just walk up to the machine, throw a charge or two and start loading. 20 mins later I had 200 rds and I quit and got on with my day. That was so I had my needed 1000 rds a week. It was a production thing. My LnL just didn't do that. It was always needing something and jamming every 20-30 rds. It never just let me crank the ammo out. It was not faster. It was a just something that tried my patience constantly. Unlike the 550 which just worked. Plus it wouldn't work with CCI primers. No mater how hard I would push.

I see where youre coming from. But I think you have to understand the relaxed nature of my loading pace. Lets just say that its VERY relaxed. I only load what I shoot over the weekend. So 250 rounds is all I need for 9mm or .45acp. One hour, once a week, is fine by me to sit back, relax, and load some ammo. The rest of what I shoot every weekend is .22lr. If I wanted to Im positive I could load 500 rounds an hour. I just dont have the need so I load at a very leasurely pace. Its my relaxation time, its not a production thing to me.

I will agree that CCI LPP's need more effort to seat then Win LPP's, but they still work. I dont have any experience with CCI SPP's since I use Win SPP's, so I wont comment on them.

Colorado4Wheel
04-20-2011, 14:06
I see where youre coming from. But I think you have to understand the relaxed nature of my loading pace. Lets just say that its VERY relaxed. I only load what I shoot over the weekend. So 250 rounds is all I need for 9mm or .45acp. One hour, once a week, is fine by me to sit back, relax, and load some ammo. The rest of what I shoot every weekend is .22lr. If I wanted to Im positive I could load 500 rounds an hour. I just dont have the need so I load at a very leasurely pace. Its my relaxation time, its not a production thing to me.

I will agree that CCI LPP's need more effort to seat then Win LPP's, but they still work. I dont have any experience with CCI SPP's since I use Win SPP's, so I wont comment on them.

I get it 100%. That's just my point. I want a machine that will crank out 600rds a hour with a case feeder in a quick but not rushed fashion. You don't. You and I have a totally different perspective on how we would judge the machine and how well it works.

I have no idea what was up with my machine and CCI SPP.

Boxerglocker
04-20-2011, 14:41
I get it 100%. That's just my point. I want a machine that will crank out 600rds a hour with a case feeder in a quick but not rushed fashion. You don't. You and I have a totally different perspective on how we would judge the machine and how well it works.

I have no idea what was up with my machine and CCI SPP.

I think this is what most people get hung up on the most looking at machines and making a decision based on what the specs say and what thier buddies recommend. Until you yourself load on a particular press and find out the reality of what it is capable of you have no clue.
I can tell you Steve out of experience that 600 rounds an hour with a XL650 at a no rushed pace is easy. I just loaded 400 TG loads in 30 minutes this morning. Though I loaded the primer tubes last night and decided to watch Top Shot instead. :supergrin:

BTW your bearing kit went in the mail yesterday.

Duck of Death
04-20-2011, 14:56
Like my LNL, no case feeder. YES, I'd buy another one.

Nothing against Dillon but I got the LNL at dealer price.

BENCH
04-20-2011, 15:52
This is the hardest decision I have made on anything in a long time. I need to find somebody close to me with each machine that I could use and evaluate for myself. Youtube is nice, but nothing beats hands on.

I know we all have different needs, and I respect that, and every ones opinions.

I am leaning towards a 650, but will see.

Bench

High Altitude
04-20-2011, 18:29
This is the hardest decision I have made on anything in a long time. I need to find somebody close to me with each machine that I could use and evaluate for myself. Youtube is nice, but nothing beats hands on.

I know we all have different needs, and I respect that, and every ones opinions.

I am leaning towards a 650, but will see.

Bench


My situation is that I am not going to use a case feeder but may upgrade to one in the future. In this case it isn't an easy decision, 550b or LNL.

What do you guys think about auto index vs manual?

From the videos I have watched it doesn't look like it slows you down that much. Maybe adds a little effort, but more important to me, it appears it would easier to double charge or squib a load with the 550b compared to a progressive that auto indexs.

EL_NinO619
04-20-2011, 18:47
Funny how the op asked LnL or 550 and all the dillon users can say is 650:whistling:. I say skip the 650 and get the lnl for way cheaper. Then get a case feeder a powder check die and all the dies and shells plates you need, trust me you wont be unhappy. I have two and load a $h1t ton of rounds with no problems and I only use cci primers.

and also buy a lee SS with the left over dough. Or really save some dough and get the lee classic turret and spend the rest on partying like Charlie Sheen......Winning

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac135/Justin_Moreau/2011-03-31093430.jpg?t=1303347449

EL_NinO619
04-20-2011, 18:52
Auto index is far better imo. I think a press without it is like buying a bmw with no power windows..Losing....

XDRoX
04-20-2011, 19:08
Auto index is far better imo. I think a press without it is like buying a bmw with no power windows..Losing....

No, you got it all wrong. Auto indexing is like an automatic car. Manual indexing is like a manual transmission. Takes a little more effort, but you're more in control.:supergrin:

GioaJack
04-20-2011, 19:10
REVIEW OF XDRoX
550 VIDEO

Overall plot of the production seemed to be somewhat lacking, so much so that one could easily anticipate the less than suspenseful conclusion.

Although it is well recognized that creative screenwriting is an art long past the writers of this particular video outdid themselves in lack of imagination and edification and in some unique, yet twisted way encouraged the viewer on a life's path of pacification. Perhaps these literary artists might consider seeking different daytime employment that they might be better suited for... professional hostages comes to mind.

Kudos to the cinematographer and lighting director in that the production lacked that often distracting and sometimes confusing element that other videos seem to be inundated with... actual movement. There is nothing more disconcerting than seeing more than one view of the main subject matter.

Those interested, yet unfamiliar with the physical appearance and operation of the Dillon 550 reloading press would be well advised to view this video at least once, if not multiple times. The viewer will come away with a clear understanding of its operation, capabilities, physical footprint and uncomplicated ease of use.

For those who are already familiar with Dillon products, and the 550 in particular, might do as this reviewer did at around the 3:32 mark in the video, switch over to the popular and comparatively entertaining video of a piss ant eating a bale of hay. Unparalleled fun for the entire family. :whistling:


Jack

XDRoX
04-20-2011, 19:18
The review is better than expected Jack. And I say this with 100% honesty. I have never laughed out load from a post more than this one:rofl:

GioaJack
04-20-2011, 19:35
The review is better than expected Jack. And I say this with 100% honesty. I have never laughed out load from a post more than this one:rofl:


The video did what you wanted it to do, it showed the uneducated exactly what the 550 does and how it does it. As far as that goes ya done good... BUT!

You're a teacher for cryin' out loud! God gave you a brain and you've figured out how to use it, put the same principals you use to teach the rug rats into your videos. You already know that if you want someone to learn something you have to make it interesting and fun. It's kinda like being a successful hooker, ya gotta leave 'em beggin' for more.

You didn't even have any gratuitous female nudity or graphic violence! How the hell do you expect people to learn without the necessities of higher education?

You better put more thought and effort into your next video or the review will be less than kind. :fist:


Jack

shotgunred
04-20-2011, 20:43
Funny how the op asked LnL or 550 and all the dillon users can say is 650:whistling:. I say skip the 650 and get the lnl for way cheaper. Then get a case feeder a powder check die and all the dies and shells plates you need, trust me you wont be unhappy. I have two and load a $h1t ton of rounds with no problems and I only use cci primers.


You have owned those presses what six months? How many $h1t ton of rounds could you have loaded in that much time? I traded my 550 after four years and around 50 k rounds. I sold it for $40 less than I payed for it. The truth is it was still more press than I (or most people) needed.

Buy the LNL or the 550 or even the 650 they are all more press than most of us need. the 550 just has a long history of being the workhorse press. With the 550 it is a sure thing and your not going to lose any money in the deal. That is not necessarily true with the LNL.
The important thing is you pick something that fits your budget and start saving money.

EL_NinO619
04-20-2011, 21:55
How many rounds have I loaded in the few months ive had the LnL A Lot, and I do mean,a lot. Not just a few thousand. I go shoting 2-3 times a week and I load for 3 to 4 people. Lets see just this week I loaded 1800 rounds.. There both great machines just the lnl is a far better value. And really how many people plan on re selling there press..

Colorado4Wheel
04-20-2011, 22:13
Auto index is far better imo. I think a press without it is like buying a bmw with no power windows..Losing....


:upeyes:

I would rather have a press that works then a press with one particular feature.

Funny how the op asked LnL or 550 and all the dillon users can say is 650:whistling:. I say skip the 650 and get the lnl for way cheaper. Then get a case feeder a powder check die and all the dies and shells plates you need, trust me you wont be unhappy. I have two and load a $h1t ton of rounds with no problems and I only use cci primers.

and also buy a lee SS with the left over dough. Or really save some dough and get the lee classic turret and spend the rest on partying like Charlie Sheen......Winning

http://i893.photobucket.com/albums/ac135/Justin_Moreau/2011-03-31093430.jpg?t=1303347449

You making that promise to me? I heard that before.


You have owned those presses what six months? How many $h1t ton of rounds could you have loaded in that much time? I traded my 550 after four years and around 50 k rounds. I sold it for $40 less than I payed for it. The truth is it was still more press than I (or most people) needed. .

Seriously. Same here but a little more rounds I think. I loaded 50K rounds of Solo 1000 alone.

Boxerglocker
04-20-2011, 22:21
Funny how the op asked LnL or 550 and all the dillon users can say is 650:whistling:.

That's cause the reality is 550 and LNL are not comparables other than in price. The XL650 was designed from the ground up to be a case fed machine with specific sized case locators for more reliable operation.

How many rounds have I loaded in the few months ive had the LnL A Lot, and I do mean,a lot. Not just a few thousand. I go shoting 2-3 times a week and I load for 3 to 4 people. Lets see just this week I loaded 1800 rounds.. There both great machines just the lnl is a far better value. And really how many people plan on re selling there press..

But you have yet to load with a casefeeder, which C4W has already shared his experience is that the XL650 conversion caliber cost pays for itself as it is a better design. Plus as C4W again will attest even Horandy admits the 650 has more seating leverage.
Put a casefeeder on that thing and roll a minimum of 700 rounds an hour on it then get back to us. Sorry, the cheaper is better arguement is getting old.:upeyes:

XDRoX
04-20-2011, 22:30
But you have yet to load with a casefeeder, which C4W has already shared his experience is that the XL650 conversion caliber cost pays for itself as it is a better design. Plus as C4W again will attest even Horandy admits the 650 has more seating leverage.
Put a casefeeder on that thing and roll a minimum of 700 rounds an hour on it then get back to us. Sorry, the cheaper is better arguement is getting old.:upeyes:

Justin's birthday is coming up and I believe a case feeder is on his list. I can't wait to try it out. I've never loaded on a machine with a case feeder before. I fondled Fred's 650 once, but didn't load on it. I want one so bad, but I want a 1050 more. I probably shoot less than anyone on this site. I just love reloading and love tools. And I really like expensive things.

So far I couldn't be happier with my 550b. My only complaint is I could not get 223 to load problem free. Everything else has been great.

StaTiK
04-20-2011, 22:57
I have two and load a $h1t ton of rounds with no problems and I only use cci primers.

Any chance I could convince you to post a video of the LNL operation? I was just saying that all of the videos on YT show people loading what looks like their first 100 rounds. I see poor component location and tons of wasted motion and I believe that there has to be a more efficient way.

Also 90% of the videos are with a case feeder.

-StaTiK-

Boxerglocker
04-20-2011, 23:09
Justin's birthday is coming up and I believe a case feeder is on his list. I can't wait to try it out. I've never loaded on a machine with a case feeder before. I fondled Fred's 650 once, but didn't load on it. I want one so bad, but I want a 1050 more. I probably shoot less than anyone on this site. I just love reloading and love tools. And I really like expensive things.

So far I couldn't be happier with my 550b. My only complaint is I could not get 223 to load problem free. Everything else has been great.

I'd like to see it myself. Just to see if anything that C4W's experience is an isolated one. I trust the opinons of particular individuals on this forum more than I trust anyone else.
One thing I do know for sure after playing with the LNL casefeeder at a local shop display yesterday, it is at least 2 to 3 times louder when running than the Dillon one that is without any brass in it.

fredj338
04-21-2011, 01:24
The LnL flexed enough that I still had some small % that did not go bang. Usually in a match. Last time it was in a "timed fire" string that basically lost me a bunch of points. So we can say it was me going to fast or some other thing. But I have had similar issues arise with both the 550 and the LnL and because of the design of the LnL it could not be forced to make the primers seat properly where as the 550 could handle the force and was able to limp through the Remington primers and still work. I ended up having to reinforce the bench under the 550 so that it would generate the force needed but after that it worked fine with the amount of pressure needed.
My machinist buddy has the LNL. The ram flex is driving him nuts. He is trying to figure out a way to reduce it, but I think it's a design flaw LNL owners just have to live with.:dunno:

fredj338
04-21-2011, 01:28
My situation is that I am not going to use a case feeder but may upgrade to one in the future. In this case it isn't an easy decision, 550b or LNL.

What do you guys think about auto index vs manual?

From the videos I have watched it doesn't look like it slows you down that much. Maybe adds a little effort, but more important to me, it appears it would easier to double charge or squib a load with the 550b compared to a progressive that auto indexs.

There is no real speed advantage to the auto vs manual index, you have to place the bullet manually & that is done as you move index the 550B. The speed comes from the case feeder, even then, it's not a huge diff & any screw up or jamb in the case feeder & any speed advantage is erased. One can easily do 400rds/hr on the 550B sustained, 550+ for a short time. The LNL is about the same.:dunno:
Funny how the op asked LnL or 550 and all the dillon users can say is 650
Becuase if yo uare talking case feeder, that really means a 650. The case feeder for the 550B seems problematic, so if you are even thinking about a case feeder, the LNL or 650 is the way to go. Like BG said, most shooters don't need any progressive w/ a case feeder, but hey, free country.
One think I do know for sure after playing with the LNL casefeeder at a local shop display yesterday, it is at least 2 to 3 times louder when running than the Dillon one that is without any brass in it.
Yep, it is also prone to jambing, something my 650 has not done. The LNL case feeder is very noisy & has one speed. The Dillon is quieter w/ brass in it than the LNL running empty & has two speeds. On low, you barely know it's on. I think you can actually get a Dillon case feeder to work on the lNL. Next time I am up in Tehachapi & am going to try to get it to run on my buddy's LNL. So wait on the case feeder Justin.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 07:21
There is no real speed advantage to the auto vs manual index, you have to place the bullet manually & that is done as you move index the 550B. The speed comes from the case feeder, even then, it's not a huge diff & any screw up or jamb in the case feeder & any speed advantage is erased. One can easily do 400rds/hr on the 550B sustained, 550+ for a short time. The LNL is about the same.:dunno:

Becuase if yo uare talking case feeder, that really means a 650. The case feeder for the 550B seems problematic, so if you are even thinking about a case feeder, the LNL or 650 is the way to go. Like BG said, most shooters don't need any progressive w/ a case feeder, but hey, free country.

Yep, it is also prone to jambing, something my 650 has not done. The LNL case feeder is very noisy & has one speed. The Dillon is quieter w/ brass in it than the LNL running empty & has two speeds. On low, you barely know it's on. I think you can actually get a Dillon case feeder to work on the lNL. Next time I am up in Tehachapi & am going to try to get it to run on my buddy's LNL. So wait on the case feeder Justin.

You would still need all the parts that come with the LnL casefeeder. The case feeder on the LnL comes with a bunch of parts for every caliber conversion. I think your right, you could probably switch the actual units pretty easily.

Flipz
04-21-2011, 09:22
I get it 100%. That's just my point. I want a machine that will crank out 600rds a hour with a case feeder in a quick but not rushed fashion. You don't. You and I have a totally different perspective on how we would judge the machine and how well it works.


:upeyes:

I would rather have a press that works then a press with one particular feature.


Dont take this the wrong way, but you dont get what Im saying 100%. Your basically saying that I dont feel I need a press that works 100%, I do. If the LnL didnt work 100% for me Id get rid of it.

And the LnL will crank out 600+ rounds an hour with a casefeeder at a steady pace and be reliable while doing so. Ive seen it done. Yours had problems, get passed that. There are plenty of LnL owners running casefeeders that run 100%. You just werent one of them. There are also plenty of LnL owners out there running casefeeders and bullet feeders at the same time without problems.

Its obvious that your LnL didnt work correctly. Theres no reason to argue that. But to say that every LnL is a piece of junk is just wrong. You got a lemon, thats it. Get over it.

I havent had one issue with mine loading both 9mm and .45acp. If I did, Id tell you, Id be 100% honest about. That said, it's worked flawlessly from day one. As I said before I dont currently load with a casefeeder. You implied that using a casefeeder on an LnL causes all sorts of problems. I may not have one at the moment but will sometime in the future. I know a good handful of people that do have a casefeeder on their LnL and they havent reported any problems with it to me. And I havent had any issues with the casefeeders on their machines when trying them out.

Your bad experience with the LnL has made your opinion, thats completely understandable. Myself and many others have a different opinion. I guess what Im trying to say is that just as some like the 550 more then the LnL, there are also many that like the LnL more then the 550.

I understand that youre frustrated with the LnL and Hornady. You got a lemon, Id be pissed off too. But thats no reason to bash the press and say that no matter what the 550 is better. Both are great presses. Both offer things that steer them to a particular customer.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 09:33
Dont take this the wrong way, but you dont get what Im saying 100%. Your basically saying that I dont feel I need a press that works 100%, I do. If the LnL didnt work 100% for me Id get rid of it.

And the LnL will crank out 600+ rounds an hour with a casefeeder at a steady pace and be reliable while doing so.

Nope I said you are loading slow enough that the machine isn't choking and your not using a casefeeder.

fredj338
04-21-2011, 09:48
I understand that youre frustrated with the LnL and Hornady. You got a lemon, Id be pissed off too. But thats no reason to bash the press and say that no matter what the 550 is better. Both are great presses. Both offer things that steer them to a particular customer.
That is kind of the point though. Personal exp drives most good opinion. I like the LNL, but my buddy has had tons of little issues getting his to work. Now granted, he is a machinist by trade, so little things tht bug him may be over looked by you or me. Same can be said for any Dillon product, hell, you even find a couple of guys that swear by their Lee progressives!:shocked:

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 10:00
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3501.jpg

This is the part of the press I am really looking forward to having on my 650. To me it's the critical difference between a LnL and a 650 when it comes to reliable operation of 9mm Glock fired cases.

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 10:07
And the LnL will crank out 600+ rounds an hour with a casefeeder at a steady pace and be reliable while doing so. Ive seen it done. Yours had problems, get passed that. There are plenty of LnL owners running casefeeders that run 100%. You just werent one of them. There are also plenty of LnL owners out there running casefeeders and bullet feeders at the same time without problems.

Nope I said you are loading slow enough that the machine isn't choking and your not using a casefeeder.

Sorry Flipz I have to back Steve on this one. You do not have a casefeed set-up on your LNL but have actually watched someone load 600+ rounds in one hour with out an issue?
First of all I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible here seriously. I made my choice strictly from a design engineering point and still have to be swayed by proof that I made the wrong choice. I have yet to see a video of anyone that can load sustained at that rate on a LNL with casefeeder for more than 3 minutes. If you do a search and watch the few youtube videos of guys that do appear to be loading without issues on a LNL, time them and do the math, barely doing 500 if that. Then search the XL650 and you find numerous videos of guys just cranking them out.
Yes, he got a lemon in regards to the plate machining but Horandy still wasn't able to fix it nor address the design issues he questioned. Lack of seating torque (admitted by Horandy as inferior compared to a 650), flex/twist in the ram (easily explained cause it's hollow), bouncing of the empty shells off the slide with the case feed (universal so doesn't retain as well as a Dillon locator at station 1 on a 650) then there is the casefeeder loud as hell with only one speed.
By all means put a casefeeder on that thing and prove us wrong, or go to your buddies house and take a video of him doing 300 sustained at that pace and again prove C4W and myself wrong. Honestly, I'd like to see it.

Flipz
04-21-2011, 10:08
Nope I said you are loading slow enough that the machine isn't choking and your not using a casefeeder.

Then you missed that part of my post where I said the following:

"I know a good handful of people that do have a casefeeder on their LnL and they havent reported any problems with it to me. And I havent had any issues with the casefeeders on their machines when trying them out."

When Ive tested out friends LnL's that have casefeeders I havent had any issues. The pace I was loading at when using their LnL's was much faster then I load on mine. The pace was around 550-600 rounds an hour as I wanted to see how much faster I could load with a casefeeder. It was alteast twice as fast as I load on my own LnL without a casefeeder at a leasurely pace.

Edit:

One thing I should add is that one of my friends and I were helping eachother out with reloading the primer tubes and and adding cases to the casefeeder while the other was loading. So that definitley sped things up. But even without the extra help of a second pair of hands I dont find it hard to believe that 500 rounds an hour is easily possible with just a casefeeder.

If I had problems Id tell you. I have no reson to stand by a product if it doesnt work. I spent my hard earned cash on it. If it didnt work Id be really pissed and Id get rid of it. For me that hasnt been the case. I havent had problems, plain and simple.

Why is it so hard to believe that others havent had the issues C4W has?

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 10:12
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3501.jpg

This is the part of the press I am really looking forward to having on my 650. To me it's the critical difference between a LnL and a 650 when it comes to reliable operation of 9mm Glock fired cases.

That was the part of the XL650 that sold me on it right at the get go... that little peice is the difference when it comes to reliability and well worth the extra expense in any caliber conversion.
BTW, make sure you lube the underside rather heavily in comparsion to the rest of the lube points.

Flipz
04-21-2011, 10:22
http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3501.jpg

This is the part of the press I am really looking forward to having on my 650. To me it's the critical difference between a LnL and a 650 when it comes to reliable operation of 9mm Glock fired cases.

75% of my reloads are from 9mm Glock fired cases. I reload them and then shoot them through my 9mm Glocks again. No issues whatsoever. And can you believe it, this is with an LnL, lol.

Ive loaded most of them on my LnL without a casefeeder. But Ive loaded a couple thousand on a friends LnL with a casefeeder, no issues.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 10:24
"I know a good handful of people that do have a casefeeder on their LnL and they havent reported any problems with it to me. And I havent had any issues with the casefeeders on their machines when trying them out."

When Ive tested out friends LnL's that have casefeeders I havent had any issues. The pace I was loading at when using their LnL's was much faster then I load on mine. The pace was around 550-600 rounds an hour as I wanted to see how much faster I could load with a casefeeder. It was alteast twice as fast as I load on my own LnL without a casefeeder at a leasurely pace.

Edit:

One thing I should add is that one of my friends and I were helping eachother out with reloading the primer tubes and and adding cases to the casefeeder while the other was loading. So that definitley sped things up. But even without the extra help of a second pair of hands I dont find it hard to believe that 500 rounds an hour is easily possible with just a casefeeder.

If I had problems Id tell you. I have no reson to stand by a product if it doesnt work. I spent my hard earned cash on it. If it didnt work Id be really pissed and Id get rid of it. For me that hasnt been the case. I havent had problems, plain and simple.

Why is it so hard to believe that others havent had the issues C4W has?

600 rds a hour is what I do on my 550 with out a case feeder. So thats not impressive. I was expecting the machine to load 100 rds in under 8 mins reliably.

I have no doubt the LnL is very reliable with out a case feeder. I have serious doubts anyone could make the machine work reliable with my 9mm brass from my Glock. It needs that part pictured above, it needs a tighter setup for the case drop tube. That would fix everything. Basically, it needs the stuff that you pay extra for when you have to convert a 650.

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 10:35
600 rds a hour is what I do on my 550 with out a case feeder. So thats not impressive. I was expecting the machine to load 100 rds in under 8 mins reliably.

I have no doubt the LnL is very reliable with out a case feeder. I have serious doubts anyone could make the machine work reliable with my 9mm brass from my Glock. It needs that part pictured above, it needs a tighter setup for the case drop tube. That would fix everything. Basically, it needs the stuff that you pay extra for when you have to convert a 650.

:agree: I loaded another 400 inside 30 minutes this morning, very casual pace. Having my press at home now is making life alot easier to get the rest of my 9mm loaded for rest of the month and nexts as well so I'm loading 400 a day this week. I'll convert back to rifle afterwards and start working on my new TAC rifle loads.

Flipz
04-21-2011, 10:36
600 rds a hour is what I do on my 550 with out a case feeder. So thats not impressive. I was expecting the machine to load 100 rds in under 8 mins reliably.



As I dont have a lot of experience with loading on a 550 I have no dought you have the ability to go super fast and I dont. We definitley have different opinions on what is fast. I havent been loading for as long as you, I have no dought about this. For me fast is 350-400 rounds an hour on my LnL without a casefeeder. For you thats slow. With added experience Im sure I could go faster, maybe even as fast as you someday.

But speed is not the point I was trying to make. Reliability is. And I havent had any reliabilty issues with my LnL or with my friends LnL that has a casefeeder. Thats what Im trying to say. You say that your LnL had reliabilty issues, it obviously did. But mine, and my friends, have not given us any reliability issues.

The only issue Ive experienced, and Ive already said this, was that CCI LPP's require a little more effort to seat. They still do seat, with a little added force. But not an amount of force that would cause a significant amount of flexing. This is not the case with Win LPP's, they seat very easily.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 10:39
Why is it so hard to believe that others havent had the issues C4W has?

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=123760&st=0
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125569&pid=1420329&st=0&#entry1420329

People sent me $15 to get a little tube to keep the cases from failing as I describe. People don't want to get embroiled in these threads so the avoid saying things more often then not.

Flipz
04-21-2011, 10:44
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=123760&st=0
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=125569&pid=1420329&st=0&#entry1420329

People sent me $15 to get a little tube to keep the cases from failing as I describe. People don't want to get embroiled in these threads so the avoid saying things more often then not.

Im not saying others havent had problems with the casefeeders, Im sure a few have. Just as Im sure some have had problems with 550's and their casefeeders or 650's and theirs. But that doesnt mean that every single person WILL have problems. I guess some of us are lucky, Blue or Red.

No matter what any of us do there will always be some that dont have the same experience we have, positive or negative. That is life.

Its the classic Ford vs. Chevy arguement. Both make great trucks. Whichever one you choose is up to you. You still get a good product. If you have a problem, well thats what the warranty is for.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 10:52
This is easy. In a week when I have my 650 setup. We can get some LnL guys and some 650 guys to agree to log on to this forum at some predetermined time. They have 4 primer tubes loaded up ready to go with a video camera. I post a number (lets say 4) someone else with a LnL post another number (lets say 8). We all write "48" on a card show it to the camera and then load 400 rds while on the camera. Post the video and see which machine is really more reliable. It's not about getting it done in super short order. Just getting it done reliable and quickly. Any auto indexing and case feed press should excel at this task.

I just realized the video would be to large of a size? Or would it?

Flipz
04-21-2011, 10:57
This is easy. In a week when I have my 650 setup. We can get some LnL guys and some 650 guys to agree to log on to this forum at some predetermined time. They have 4 primer tubes loaded up ready to go with a video camera. I post a number (lets say 4) someone else with a LnL post another number (lets say 8). We all write "48" on a card show it to the camera and then load 400 rds while on the camera. Post the video and see which machine is really more reliable. It's not about getting it done in super short order. Just getting it done reliable and quickly. Any auto indexing and case feed press should excel at this task.

I just realized the video would be to large of a size? Or would it?

I'll see if my buddy is up to the task.

Im already sure he'd lose to you, but thats a case of less experience, not the press. Each of us has only been loading for about 6 months.

To make a fair comparison you should try and get people who have the same level of loading experience as you.

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 10:58
This is easy. In a week when I have my 650 setup. We can get some LnL guys and some 650 guys to agree to log on to this forum at some predetermined time. They have 4 primer tubes loaded up ready to go with a video camera. I post a number (lets say 4) someone else with a LnL post another number (lets say 8). We all write "48" on a card show it to the camera and then load 400 rds while on the camera. Post the video and see which machine is really more reliable. It's not about getting it done in super short order. Just getting it done reliable and quickly. Any auto indexing and case feed press should excel at this task.

I just realized the video would be to large of a size? Or would it?

I'll be in but will have to borrow a video camera. My Flip video cam got taken when my truck was ransacked the other week along with my GPS, Zune and Oakley shooting aray glasses. I don't have a youtube account yet but can get one.
Are there any LNL guys on this forum that actually load with a casefeeder at a reasonable pace to test the relaibility though? :upeyes:

StaTiK
04-21-2011, 11:05
I'll be in but will have to borrow a video camera. My Flip video cam got taken when my truck was ransacked the other week along with my GPS, Zune and Oakley shooting aray glasses. I don't have a youtube account yet but can get one.
Are there any LNL guys on this forum that actually load with a casefeeder at a reasonable pace to test the relaibility though? :upeyes:

oooh oooh, and let's get some Loadmaster guys to join in! :tongueout: Add one green machine and you'd have the #1 rated post of all time...

-StaTiK-

XDRoX
04-21-2011, 11:13
oooh oooh, and let's get some Loadmaster guys to join in! :tongueout: Add one green machine and you'd have the #1 rated post of all time...

-StaTiK-

I like this idea of a contest, but it took youtube 45 minutes to upload my 9 minutes video. And they don't allow uploads over 15 minutes I believe.

I think the better and much more exciting way to have this contest if with live feeds steaming to the internet. In which we could all watch as it's happening live. The video quality would not be that great, but it would work. And all it would take is a $10 web cam.

You guys could broadcast it on ustream.tv

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 12:17
I'll see if my buddy is up to the task.

Im already sure he'd lose to you, but thats a case of less experience, not the press. Each of us has only been loading for about 6 months.

To make a fair comparison you should try and get people who have the same level of loading experience as you.

It's not about the person. 400 rds in 30 mins is a little bit of a workout. But you on a case feed machine. Just have a full hopper of brass, pull the handle every 4.5 secs, seat a bullet and let the machine do the rest. Even 300-350 rds in 30 mins. I just don't think the machine can do it. Not in 9mm with Glock fired brass (Primer flow around the primer punch) that is all tippy on the LnL slider.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 12:20
I like this idea of a contest, but it took youtube 45 minutes to upload my 9 minutes video. And they don't allow uploads over 15 minutes I believe.

I think the better and much more exciting way to have this contest if with live feeds steaming to the internet. In which we could all watch as it's happening live. The video quality would not be that great, but it would work. And all it would take is a $10 web cam.

You guys could broadcast it on ustream.tv

I was afraid of that.

GioaJack
04-21-2011, 12:23
Boy, I wish I hadn't spent all the money on a Kindle, I get all of my reading entertainment right here. :supergrin:

A few of the earlier posts got me wondering about something, the comparative noise between the two case feeders and the high and low switch on the Dillon.

Being the curious little Devil that I am I decided to do a little test. (I'm bored, I have to go in for an MRI and a CT scan at two and I'm not allowed to drink after 9:30 this morning so I'm trying to stay occupied.)

Bear in mind that I don't have a 650 case feeder but I do obviously have 1050 case feeders and I'm assuming that the feed bowls are identical as well as most of the feed tube. Both of my LNL case feeders are identical naturally.

The first thing I tested was the comparative noise of the two feeders. Since the LNL only has one speed I compared it to the 'high' speed on the Dillons. To try to be as fair as possible I compared the two feeders that are filled with .45 cases. I imagine different size cases could produce different frequencies and either mask or accentuate the sound of the motor so this seemed the best way to do it.

There is no doubt, the LNL is louder than the Dillon. Even with my near non-existent hearing I could tell the difference. This is not to say that the LNL is three or four times louder, it's not but the sound of the motor is louder, a higher pitch if you will and the sound of the brass moving around the bowl and falling down the tube is more noticeable. This I found a little strange since the tubes are made out of pretty much the same material, if anything the LNL tube is softer so you'd think the sound would be more muted.

That's when, being the highly trained investigator that I am, I made an interesting observation. Even though the Dillon has a high and low speed switch the LNL is considerably, considerably faster than the Dillon when switched to high. There really is no comparison in the time it takes for the tube to fill... (taking into account that the actual LNL tube is about 8 inches shorter due to its design).

I would imagine that the slightly increased noise level of the LNL is partly due to the greatly increased motor speed and partly to the rapid agitation of the brass in the bowl.

I guess that one could make the argument that the increased noise of the LNL would be irritating but on the other hand one could make the argument that the bowl turns for a much shorter time than the Dillon.

The same arguments can be made when the bowls are automatically activated when the case level falls below the microswitch and a case is dropped into the tube. Dillon suggests that the switch be placed in the high position to initially fill the tube then switched to low while loading. It takes a long, long time to drop a case this way with the Dillon when compared to the LNL.

SO WHAT! If you are bothered by the noise of either one of these machines I can safely say that the shooting sport is not for you. There simply isn't that much of a difference in noise where you'd have to turn up the radio or TV while using the LNL nor is the LNL that much faster in feed bowl operation. If you're using the Dillon fill up a primer tube while the bowl is filling the feed tube. It's a wash, neither one is going to have an appreciable, if any effect on production rate. The Dillon is quieter, the LNL is faster and the sun rises in the east.

Is the 650 faster than a case fed LNL, I don't know, I don't own one but I'd guess that it is, at least for some people who have a need for that production rate are are willing to develop a routine to achieve that speed.

Will Little Stevie achieve a higher production rate on his soon to be installed 650 than I do on my 1050's? Yes, absolutely! He'd be quicker against me even if I was using a Camdex. He needs that production rate due to time restraints and he has the physical capabilities to do it. (Lets see what he does in 20 years. :supergrin:) If I do 400 rounds on the 1050 I'm happy, physically it is much, much easier on my therefore it fits my requirements. Hozer jumps up to the handles of his 1050's and knocks out 1200 to 1400 an hour. He's able to do it... midgets have lots of energy.

Do I have problems with my LNL'S... of course, I've had problems with every press I've ever owned. My Stars used to drive me crazy when they decided to cop an attitude. Do I have major problems with the LNL's, not anymore, I've had 'em long enough to sense when something is about to go wrong and I've learned how to clear any kind of jam in a few seconds.

I have one set up just for .38's. Other than initial set-up I've never had a problem with the case feeder but .38 cases are very long so they're easy to work with and I have never run into a crimped .38 primer pocket so I don't have issues with high primers no matter what brand I use. I would say that it takes more forward pressure to seat primers than on my 550.

My other LNL is set up for RN .45 with a case feeder and bullet feeder, (I haven't put that many bullets through the feeder yet but so far it seems to be feeding lead with the modifications I made to it). Do I have problems with that machine? Yes, two recurring problems. Once in a while the shorter .45 case jiggles off the case shuttle when it drops out of the feed tube. How often? I don't know, sometimes 1 out of 100, sometimes 1 out of 150, some sessions it never happens. I used to stop, climb off my stool, risk another broken back and bend over to pick the case up off the floor... then I smartened up. Why stop? Now I just keep pulling the handle, slower than Little Stevie or Boxer ever would but that's all I'm capable of. What do I miss in production? The time it takes to pull the handle one more time to make an even hundred. That's a big deal to some people, for me it's not.

The other problem I have with that machine is an occasional high primer but that's usually caused by the military brass I use and I don't always get them swaged properly before throwing them in the feed bowl. It doesn't happen often since I used to swage only after I'd lost enough brass to have to restock loadable brass. (Now I just use brass in that machine that I've already loaded on the 1050... pretty much took care of that problem.

Little Stevie use to ask me what I liked about the LNL over my 550 and my answer was always very easy in coming. Speed is not my priority, ease of use is and because of it larger footprint it makes it much, much easier for me to use with my rheumatoid arthritic hands. Other than that I don't care what I load on or what color it is although because of its small size my Square Deal is quickly becoming a torture device. I think that's gonna end up being the son-in-law's. :whistling:


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 12:40
I never really cared about the noise of the LnL. It is noisier. All I cared about on that machine was 9mm and quick production. That's it. That's why I bought it, thats what I wanted it to do. I think I just happened to find it's weak spot. Short case, Tippy case because of the Glock's rectangular primer hole. I would imagine it works much better with other cases.

fredj338
04-21-2011, 13:04
You would still need all the parts that come with the LnL casefeeder. The case feeder on the LnL comes with a bunch of parts for every caliber conversion. I think your right, you could probably switch the actual units pretty easily.
Yep, but I think the cost would be about the same having Hornady sell you the other parts & then just buy the Dillon feeder. It does run pretty slick. My LNL guys are jelous.:rofl:

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 15:50
Well I guess my pist this morning did not make it, but as soon as I get my case feeder, I will accept you challenge. LnL for life.

But what I posted this morning is that most loaders dont need 700 R/H like you say boxer and a lot of people dont need a 700 dollar press. I bought the lnl because it suits my need and sas a better value. As for priming strentgh, if you having problems with a lnl you need to hit the gym, my 13 year old nephew tames the damn thing. Plus the lnl primes better when using military brass, then the 550 due to dillon SLOPPY shellplate, and yes I kmow this from experience with XDRoX 550.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 15:54
Well I guess my pist this morning did not make it, but as soon as I get my case feeder, I will accept you challenge. LnL for life.

How many people really think your going to get a fair and honest appraisal of that casefeeder from this guy?:upeyes:

fredj338
04-21-2011, 16:11
then the 550 due to dillon SLOPPY shellplate, and yes I kmow this from experience with XDRoX 550.
If the 550B has slop in the shell plate, just tighten it up a bit. The real slop issue is in the tool head, a 30sec fix. The ram flex issue is a problem, more on some LNL than others, but it is there.
We all buy a progressive of some type to make more ammo faster, but it's not just about how many rounds you can load in say 10min. Can the machine run for an hour or more w/o a problem?
Here is one I had on the 650 the other day. Thru a bunch of 45 brass into the hopper & had one case w/ a buggered up primer from a previous loading session. When it dropped into the shell plate feeder, jambed solid, the damaged primer was to high. THose never caused an issue hand feeding into the 550B. Something learned usign the "new" press. Al of them have quirks, some just more than others. Maybe it's time to build my own hybrid?:whistling:

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 16:58
550 shellplate tightening process.

1) Remove Tool head and put Allen wrench in bolt on shell plate. DO NOT REMOVE FROM THIS POINT TILL THE END.
2) Drop of oil on bolt/shell plate interface.
3) Loosen set screw on left side of ram.
4) Tighten wrench on top just a little bit, then tighten set screw. Check for binding when indexing.
5) Repeat till you get binding. Then use the big wrench as a reference and back it off just a 1/8 a turn and tighten set screw.

It should move smoothly and not bind. You want to use the big wrench as a reference so you can keep track of how much you need to loosen it and still have it tight at the end.

XDRoX
04-21-2011, 17:27
550 shellplate tightening process.

1) Remove Tool head and put Allen wrench in bolt on shell plate. DO NOT REMOVE FROM THIS POINT TILL THE END.
2) Drop of oil on bolt/shell plate interface.
3) Loosen set screw on left side of ram.
4) Tighten wrench on top just a little bit, then tighten set screw. Check for binding when indexing.
5) Repeat till you get binding. Then use the big wrench as a reference and back it off just a 1/8 a turn and tighten set screw.

It should move smoothly and not bind. You want to use the big wrench as a reference so you can keep track of how much you need to loosen it and still have it tight at the end.

I think what Justin is referring to is one time we thought we could not get the shell plate tight enough while loading 223. I followed these instructions exactly. I'm pretty sure I completely understand how it all works and how to get it tightened correctly. No matter what I did, every now and then primers would snag while being seated and get crushed.

I now believe that I did not have the "paper clip" thingy in all the way and I believe some of the brass was not properly swaged completely. At the time me and Justin thought it was caused by slop in my shellplate.

I kind of want to try it again, but I have no desire to load 223 anymore. It's just too tedious.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 17:41
Good to know. If the paperclip isn't in right then you can have primer seating issues for sure. You can feel the primers catch on the side of the cup right before you crush them into the pocket.

GioaJack
04-21-2011, 17:59
Damn, an hour down to the hospital, a CT scan then they put me out for an MRI, keep me there for another half hour to make sure I don't drop, make my daughter drive through McDonalds for a Big mac, (hadn't eaten all day) then an hour home and you guys are still at it.

Nice to know that apparently there are people with less than a life than me. :faint:


Jack

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 18:07
But what I posted this morning is that most loaders dont need 700 R/H like you say boxer and a lot of people dont need a 700 dollar press. I bought the lnl because it suits my need and sas a better value. As for priming strentgh, if you having problems with a lnl you need to hit the gym, my 13 year old nephew tames the damn thing. Plus the lnl primes better when using military brass, then the 550 due to dillon SLOPPY shellplate, and yes I kmow this from experience with XDRoX 550.

When are you gonna get the fact, that it ain't about the money?
It's about design, and the potential for maximum efficiency.
It's a good thing that you don't need 700 rounds and hour cause I highly doubt you could do it without at least 1 issue to have to clear every 100.
Step back take and objective view and just look at the facts. Good God man, I had once had intentions of getting a LNL myself. However having a aerospace design/maintenance backround looking at it closely knew that the shuttle would have issues and felt that there was no way it could beat the Dillon.
Then your hit the gym comment, are you effen serious? You have two presses you apply a equal ammount of force to the handle it move the ram in order to prime... the one that transmits more mechanical advantage by design with less twist/torque wins to the primer seating pin wins.
Common dude, lets not get personal here. State the facts. It's like comparing a Ford compact to a Toyota, as much as I like to buy American (I have a F-150) you and I both know which one by design will statistically be on the road in 10 yearss in as good as new condition mechanically.... OH but the Ford is cheaper :upeyes:

IndyGunFreak
04-21-2011, 18:22
I was afraid of that.

While I don't upload to YT (as the resident nerd, I can look into it more if you guys want)...

NutNFancy, some guy who does lots of youtube videos, frequently does videos that last 30, 40min ... so I don't think there's a 15min limit... its all about how the video is made, video compression, size, etc,..

IGF

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 18:32
Damn, an hour down to the hospital, a CT scan then they put me out for an MRI, keep me there for another half hour to make sure I don't drop, make my daughter drive through McDonalds for a Big mac, (hadn't eaten all day) then an hour home and you guys are still at it.

Nice to know that apparently there are people with less than a life than me. :faint:


Jack

I took a break, but now I am back.

You should really eat breakfast. Don't make me come over there.

GioaJack
04-21-2011, 18:38
I took a break, but now I am back.

You should really eat breakfast. Don't make me come over there.


They said I couldn't eat or drink anything after 9:30 'cause they have to put me out for the MRI... to me it's like being buried alive.

I don't fall asleep to 4 or 5, I'm not about to get up that early just to eat something. The MRI was scheduled for 3:30 so I was a bit testy by the time I got there. They weren't happy when they found out I took my insulin and didn't eat all day.

I fixed their wagon... I was still drinking coffee well after 9:30. HA! I win!


Jack

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 19:34
When are you gonna get the fact, that it ain't about the money?
It's about design, and the potential for maximum efficiency.
It's a good thing that you don't need 700 rounds and hour cause I highly doubt you could do it without at least 1 issue to have to clear every 100.
Step back take and objective view and just look at the facts. Good God man, I had once had intentions of getting a LNL myself. However having a aerospace design/maintenance backround looking at it closely knew that the shuttle would have issues and felt that there was no way it could beat the Dillon.
Then your hit the gym comment, are you effen serious? You have two presses you apply a equal ammount of force to the handle it move the ram in order to prime... the one that transmits more mechanical advantage by design with less twist/torque wins to the primer seating pin wins.
Common dude, lets not get personal here. State the facts. It's like comparing a Ford compact to a Toyota, as much as I like to buy American (I have a F-150) you and I both know which one by design will statistically be on the road in 10 yearss in as good as new condition mechanically.... OH but the Ford is cheaper :upeyes:

First the Gym comment was a joke. FACTS, what facts do you need, i will give them to you. Not one press runs flawlessly. I can load 500 rounds a hr without having a hiccup. The fact about saving money is a Huge bonus to some of us, where all not aero space Trumps:supergrin: ( by the way i deal with those guys daily, and Aero and engineer dont make you smart. And i do not mean that to offend you personally) The ram moves but by the time you can apply enough force to make it shift, you have long ago set the primer. I'm not bias and my first time loading on a PP was on a Dillon. I really wanted a dillon, but the tool heads are way to expensive, for not saving any time. I will get a 1050 one day, but a LnL is all anyone needs, i really think you guys over thinking the designs. Your loading a bullet not building a Rocket ship. But hey what do i know, and yes Dillon is far superior and always will be to some. But i may just go buy a 650 just to compare, but trust me i have no Dillon stock, so if theirs a problem i will post it ( and i know there is) Just like theirs problems with the LnL. But i am over the Stupid argument of Red vs Blue, no one will ever win.. I just think its funny, the people that own LnL's love them ( except CW4) And Dillon owners know all the problems with the LnL from a Dillon forum.:shocked:


.....Pricing out a 650 as i type......:tongueout:

Note to self..Don't forget to order Safety pins and a Extra large roll of Dillon blue duck tape..:rofl:

http://www.fototime.com/121BD5580CD55AC/standard.jpg

P.S. Richard LEE is still my favorite..

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 19:53
If you look hard enough I said basically the same thing about 4 months ago.

Keep in mind, other then CCI SP primers and the case feeder the LnL worked fine. Add the case feeder and mine did not work with my Glock brass. Try CCI SP and it would not work. So I am not surprised your having a hard time understand this other point of view because you are on a different path. Remember primers vary from batch to batch. My primer issues started the second I got the LnL using the same batch of CCI that worked perfectly on my 550.

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 19:53
EL_NinO619

Your still missing the point. The comparision is casefeed machines. I would hope you could load 500 and hour on the LNL w/o a casefeeder. I could do it on both my SDB's, C4W and others can do it on manual indexing 550b's

The comparsion is whether a LNL or XL650 are just as reliable by design for maximum efficiency. I'll give you the arguement of the XL650 indexing ball spring has way to much tension, clipping the spring will alleve that instantly adding the bearing make the shellplate even smoother.

However look at the case shuttle on you LNL and then the one on a XL650 with a railed locator at station 1. Tell me that if just by chance you life was on the line. Which one would you lean toward working more reliably at a rate of 700-800 rounds an hour?

Come on honest answer, you appear to be a mechanically inclined person. Which one?

BTW, I'm no aero space Trump as you call it... I have over 20 years in the industry, work hard everyday most of it was from a toolbox. I put myself through a degree in that time and these days work quality assurance and investigation on the flightline. In some circles it may appear that I'm making a millon bucks but the reality is I make a fair wage for the work I do. I don't squander money, and if you remember back when... I sold a SDB press and a gun to by my XL650 cause doing so would get me more time to do other things I wanted/needed to do namely shoot and spend time with my family.

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 20:00
If my life was on the line WTF, is the Taliban knocking on your door..lmao if my life was on the line I reach for my Socom that I bought with my LnL savings and pull the trigger and watch a perfect .308 projectile exit the barrel at 2600 fps loaded from a LnL.. Boxer I like you man.. If my life was on the line.. deer hunter style loading, myo myo myo pull the handle myo..

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 20:06
If my life was on the line WTF, is the Taliban knocking on your door..lmao if my life was on the line I reach for my Socom that I bought with my LnL savings and pull the trigger and watch a perfect .308 projectile exit the barrel at 2600 fps loaded from a LnL.. Boxer I like you man.. If my life was on the line.. deer hunter style loading, myo myo myo pull the handle myo..

You KNOW exactly what I mean:upeyes: make the decision based on that criteria given.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 20:18
He's thinking. Give him a little time. This is a tough one.

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 20:23
He's thinking. Give him a little time. This is a tough one.

OH good you understand, I thought it was me for a minute. :faint:

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 20:44
I have understood from the start. He's trying to get us all worked up and we are wasting our time. I have been doing this crap for years.

Colorado4Wheel
04-21-2011, 20:44
For the record I was bored and needed to boost my post count.

High Altitude
04-21-2011, 20:55
Nutnfancy is a YouTube partner so he can put up longer videos. Us mere mortals are limited to 15min.

While I don't upload to YT (as the resident nerd, I can look into it more if you guys want)...

NutNFancy, some guy who does lots of youtube videos, frequently does videos that last 30, 40min ... so I don't think there's a 15min limit... its all about how the video is made, video compression, size, etc,..

IGF

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 21:00
Hahaha, you guys crack me up. Box I meant no disrespect, just venting about some of the so called brains that work with me. The dillon is a better design but the lnl is more than enough. You want a super strong press with a crap design, look at the lyman orange crush I bought from chris, it has a over cam which will jam in some cases, its strong as hell but I would rather load on my $39 Lee. Yes im playing the whole thread up, I really and really do mean I dont care what press you buy, I just went with what suits me, as everyone should. But again for the price the lnl is a better machine, case feeder aside. By,the way the lnl is designed for casefeeder use because it has that stupid long thing sticking out the back. Which forces me to move my shells further than I want to reach for. All the machines will do its what you want to spend and what fits your needs. except for ome rcbs 5 station a local gun shop sells for 740 bucks, and they say its better than red or blue...now there nuts..

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 21:08
Hahaha, you guys crack me up. Box I meant no disrespect, just venting about some of the so called brains that work with me. The dillon is a better design but the lnl is more than enough. You want a super strong press with a crap design, look at the lyman orange crush I bought from chris, it has a over cam which will jam in some cases, its strong as hell but I would rather load on my $39 Lee. Yes im playing the whole thread up, I really and really do mean I dont care what press you buy, I just went with what suits me, as everyone should. But again for the price the lnl is a better machine, case feeder aside. By,the way the lnl is designed for casefeeder use because it has that stupid long thing sticking out the back. Which forces me to move my shells further than I want to reach for. All the machines will do its what you want to spend and what fits your needs. except for ome rcbs 5 station a local gun shop sells for 740 bucks, and they say its better than red or blue...now there nuts..

:cool: It's cool I don't really car either... if your happy with your choice more power to you. I hope you get that casefeeder for your birthday and prove us wrong. I really do.

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 21:08
.................................................

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 21:09
Nevermind it did work...wtf

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 21:13
POh ya I got a Dillon beam scale on the way. I was going to go with a Hornady but with my life on the line I decided to go with the one with a steonger beam and optional stromgmount, just incase......

XDRoX
04-21-2011, 21:29
And I thought Fred's posts had a lot of typos:whistling:

Boxerglocker
04-21-2011, 21:31
And I thought Fred's posts had a lot of typos:whistling:

:rofl: You were reading my mind.

StaTiK
04-21-2011, 21:32
POh ya I got a Dillon beam scale on the way. I was going to go with a Hornady but with my life on the line I decided to go with the one with a steonger beam and optional stromgmount, just incase......

:poke:

EL_NinO619
04-21-2011, 21:40
It's not when I'm on the PC, just when using this stupid "smart Phone" that makes me look stupid as hell..

Boosted my post count tonight boys...:cheerleader::poke::bunny:

ryanm
04-22-2011, 07:56
Boosted my post count tonight boys...:cheerleader::poke::bunny:

Post count is post count. :honkie:

unclebob
04-22-2011, 08:25
[QUOTE=EL_NinO619;17249185]

http://www.fototime.com/121BD5580CD55AC/standard.jpg

What is the green thing by the ram and the chain for?

fredj338
04-22-2011, 08:45
And I thought Fred's posts had a lot of typos:whistling:

Ouch, scolded by the teacher.:crying: I actually shoot better than I type. I think it's my inner rejection of advanced technology trying to get out. It took my 15yrs to get a 650!

hoffy
04-22-2011, 09:10
When I first got my LNL up and running, and what I thought was adjusted, I got 500 rounds in less than an hour easy, without a case feeder, but my first job out of high school many years ago was doing piece work, and I became very fast and precise, with a single stage I can get 200/hour if I hustle. My problem, and this thread is the first I have seen that may shed light on my on my problem(ram flex) is that my press will randomly start throwing out rounds with wildly different cartridge lengths, I am talking 15 thousandths and a lot of the time even more. It is more than frustrating. I thought my problems were because my machine was a very low serial number display model that while being new, I had to dump about 150$ into it to get it going, lucky that is what I paid for the thing. I really want to like this press, but it is off the bench and I am going to try to send it back. The press has broken a toggle, then later a handle,(replaced by Hornady), I use CCI primers often, and my press will seat them, but I guess I have to use too much force. I don't know.

What I do know is once the press seemed to "break in" after about a thousand rounds, it will not hold an OAL. Tried three different die sets, and am not happy, I got a lemon for sure. Some people obviously have machines they are satisfied with, but mine is a paper weight. I need to call Hornady and see what they will do, probably nothing I am guessing, since it was a demo, but I have a mid '90s vintage RCBS Ammomaster Progressive I bought used and it has ran tens of thousands of rounds, the ram head is aluminum, and does wear, allowing tilt and priming problems, RCBS sends me new shell plate holders free even though I bought the thing used.(on the third one which is nearing it's end, worried about parts availability) I bought the Hornady because I have used their dies for years(remember Pacific?) among other products, and the shell plate holder(ram head) is steel, so I thought it a more durable press. I wish I had never even seen the thing, I got used to running "iffy" machinery when I worked at a boot factory years ago and was earning a living using worn out tooling, and did well at it, but this LNL is beyond me. I have even got a finicky RCBS Green Machine(the old C-H inline progressive) to run well for a customer when I worked at a gun shop-not easy. So just beware that there are red presses with problems, I just hope Hornady takes care of me, I cannot afford to just drop another several hundred $ for another press, the Ammomaster is coming out of moth balls, and so is my Star Universal(and hope no part breaks, but it is built like a tank, IIRC I went 100k rounds with only breaking a decaping pin back in the '90s). If Hornady does not take care of me I am blowing the thing up on you tube, then shooting what is left with API, I refuse to sell it to an unsuspecting kid as buddies have suggested. I am perfectly willing to try another LNL, I hope they give me the chance. Another thing, they have made a ton of changes in the thing, I do not know why they do it piecemeal, so there are many versions of the machine . The latest thing with the ejector system is an example, anyone with a lot of older shell plates are hosed when they quit making parts for the old ones, which they will. NO priming parts were available for my early machine lest tubes,- punches& holders, forget it.

I do not recall so many detailed complaints about Dillon, but to me(except the 550 and 1050) they look like they have a lot of cheesy plastic parts, but they must work. My eye doctor (an MD) is an avid shooter and has two 650s, and loves them, and he shoots a lot. I like my press except the OAL thing, the powder feed works, it primes, the retention springs get tweaked after a while, but I have about 10 spares, but OAL is something that is quite important, it gets so bad that I can set it up for minimum OAL and the thing will through out rounds that will not chamber, the ogive hits the rifling, and slides cannot be driven home, and this is random, it does not slowly go out of adjustment, and yes it is firmly bolted down and I fully raise the ram.

I am guessing that they have not taken care of Colorado yet, from what I have read, does not bode well for me.........sigh, should have drank the blue kool aid........

PsychoKnight
04-22-2011, 10:50
When I first got my LNL up and running, and what I thought was adjusted, I got 500 rounds in less than an hour easy, without a case feeder, but my first job out of high school many years ago was doing piece work, and I became very fast and precise, with a single stage I can get 200/hour if I hustle. My problem, and this thread is the first I have seen that may shed light on my on my problem(ram flex) is that my press will randomly start throwing out rounds with wildly different cartridge lengths, I am talking 15 thousandths and a lot of the time even more. It is more than frustrating. I thought my problems were because my machine was a very low serial number display model that while being new, I had to dump about 150$ into it to get it going, lucky that is what I paid for the thing. I really want to like this press, but it is off the bench and I am going to try to send it back. The press has broken a toggle, then later a handle,(replaced by Hornady), I use CCI primers often, and my press will seat them, but I guess I have to use too much force. I don't know.

What I do know is once the press seemed to "break in" after about a thousand rounds, it will not hold an OAL. Tried three different die sets, and am not happy, I got a lemon for sure. Some people obviously have machines they are satisfied with, but mine is a paper weight. I need to call Hornady and see what they will do, probably nothing I am guessing, since it was a demo, but I have a mid '90s vintage RCBS Ammomaster Progressive I bought used and it has ran tens of thousands of rounds, the ram head is aluminum, and does wear, allowing tilt and priming problems, RCBS sends me new shell plate holders free even though I bought the thing used.(on the third one which is nearing it's end, worried about parts availability) I bought the Hornady because I have used their dies for years(remember Pacific?) among other products, and the shell plate holder(ram head) is steel, so I thought it a more durable press. I wish I had never even seen the thing, I got used to running "iffy" machinery when I worked at a boot factory years ago and was earning a living using worn out tooling, and did well at it, but this LNL is beyond me. I have even got a finicky RCBS Green Machine(the old C-H inline progressive) to run well for a customer when I worked at a gun shop-not easy. So just beware that there are red presses with problems, I just hope Hornady takes care of me, I cannot afford to just drop another several hundred $ for another press, the Ammomaster is coming out of moth balls, and so is my Star Universal(and hope no part breaks, but it is built like a tank, IIRC I went 100k rounds with only breaking a decaping pin back in the '90s). If Hornady does not take care of me I am blowing the thing up on you tube, then shooting what is left with API, I refuse to sell it to an unsuspecting kid as buddies have suggested. I am perfectly willing to try another LNL, I hope they give me the chance. Another thing, they have made a ton of changes in the thing, I do not know why they do it piecemeal, so there are many versions of the machine . The latest thing with the ejector system is an example, anyone with a lot of older shell plates are hosed when they quit making parts for the old ones, which they will. NO priming parts were available for my early machine lest tubes,- punches& holders, forget it.

I do not recall so many detailed complaints about Dillon, but to me(except the 550 and 1050) they look like they have a lot of cheesy plastic parts, but they must work. My eye doctor (an MD) is an avid shooter and has two 650s, and loves them, and he shoots a lot. I like my press except the OAL thing, the powder feed works, it primes, the retention springs get tweaked after a while, but I have about 10 spares, but OAL is something that is quite important, it gets so bad that I can set it up for minimum OAL and the thing will through out rounds that will not chamber, the ogive hits the rifling, and slides cannot be driven home, and this is random, it does not slowly go out of adjustment, and yes it is firmly bolted down and I fully raise the ram.

I am guessing that they have not taken care of Colorado yet, from what I have read, does not bode well for me.........sigh, should have drank the blue kool aid........

Ouch. Feel for you, man.

Inconsistent o.a.l. generally means there is play somewhere between the carrier plate and the seating punch. If your LnL is that old, I imagine the soft rubber o-rings on the bushing is shot - after 3 years, mine has crumbled and the dies wobbled a bit until I changed them out (but then my press has been outdoors under an awning all that time). Try replacing those from a generic o-ring kit. If you can't find one with the right ring thickness, get Hornady oem part from reseller, or direct.

Other thing is the two screws on the ram, just below the base plate. Unscrew both, pull up on the plate a few inches and inspect the threading on both the plate and the screws. The entire up-down force of the shell plate is held in place onto the ram by just two little shear screws. I feel they should have used 4 screws instead of two, but this should be a solvable problem, even on an old "demo" machine.

Don't worry about shellplates - new ones work on all previous AP machines, and old shellplates can be sent in and regrooved for a $10 fee, that is if you don't want to buy new ones for $25.

You said primer parts are no longer available for early AP's? Which parts?

Colorado4Wheel
04-22-2011, 12:52
. Try replacing those from a generic o-ring kit. If you can't find one with the right ring thickness, get Hornady oem part from reseller, or direct.


They should be free. Just call Hornady.

fredj338
04-22-2011, 13:05
There are few plastic moving parts on the Dillon's. I have a 550B w/ 100s of 1000 of rds on iit, nothing breaks, have only replaced the primer slides as Dillon upgrades them (free of course). We'll see about the Dillon. I only have maybe 1200rds thru it so far.

RRTX11
04-22-2011, 16:09
I had this problem 3 months ago. Red versus Blue. Which one to go with? Until I got into loading......I had a saying. Always spend the extra money to get the better product on guns and boots. You get what you pay for. Now, I say spend the extra money on guns, boots, and the blue. You get what you pay for.:whistling:

gk

cole
04-22-2011, 19:21
There are few plastic moving parts on the Dillon's. I have a 550B w/ 100s of 1000 of rds on it, nothing breaks, have only replaced the primer slides as Dillon upgrades them (free of course). We'll see about the Dillon. I only have maybe 1200rds thru it so far.
Ohh, Fred, you bragger! :supergrin:

My SBD has broken major load-bearing parts three times (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1337031). I think I push the limits in volume/usage for this press. The 500B is certainly the more sturdy, more versatile press. Since I got both my SBDs for under $425 (net) used, and I only reload pistol, I accept an inferior product at less than half the price with a lifetime, "No BS" warranty.\

Lesson: You can't go wrong with Blue!

fredj338
04-23-2011, 09:26
Ohh, Fred, you bragger! :supergrin:

My SBD has broken major load-bearing parts three times (http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1337031). I think I push the limits in volume/usage for this press. The 500B is certainly the more sturdy, more versatile press. Since I got both my SBDs for under $425 (net) used, and I only reload pistol, I accept an inferior product at less than half the price with a lifetime, "No BS" warranty.\

Lesson: You can't go wrong with Blue!

What do they say, it's not braggin if it's true! I bought a progressive to reload high volumns of ammo. Breaking parts & waiting for replacements is not in the equation.:supergrin: