Frustrated with G23 + weaponlight issues. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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iofdetiger
04-21-2011, 09:39
I've had my trusty Glock 23 for a few years now and It's been great. Until of course I decided to buy a TLR-1.

Glock is doing nothing but giving me the run around. I called them in the beginning of March to ask for their advice. And this is what I got:

First call: Fred told me to check my followers. After hearing they were a number 8, told me it was a recoil spring issue.

Second call: Told me it was a magazine spring issue and that they'd be glad to send me new magazine springs. Also told me to check out the Wolff springs.

Third call: (a month later, the springs never showed up) They said the springs were cleared to ship and that they were just waiting for them to go out.

Fourth Call: (2 weeks later, today) I talk to Anthony who tells me that I probably wont get the magazine springs from Glock and to just purchase new ones. No problem, I ask him about the Wolff springs and they said they don't recommend any aftermarket parts. Which I understand completely. He also says the glock light doesn't cause any issues. He also says the issue is resolved in the new 22 and 23s.

so my options are to: Buy the OEM 10 spring coils, Buy the Wolff springs, or sell the gun and try my luck at a new one.

Anyone have any experience with a solution that actually worked?

Cruiser1
04-21-2011, 09:45
Not sure what your problem is, you did not say. I also have a 23 with a TLR-1 attached, works fine, no problems at all. It does get rather dirty hanging past the end of the barrel. I wiped it down with a little Vaseline before shooting yesterday and it cleaned right off with a just a rag after the range session. The light manufacture does recommend in the written instructions that come with the light not tightening down the mounting too tight on the 23 as it can bind up the slide.

iofdetiger
04-21-2011, 09:46
Ah, sorry. My gun doesn't correctly cycle rounds with the light attached. Every 3-4 rounds i'll get a FTF. The light is only thumb tightened.

Cruiser1
04-21-2011, 09:53
My 23 is only about 6 months old and I had had the light about a month. If as they said the newer ones have been corrected somehow to not bind up maybe that is why I have not had any issues. I really don't see the connection between the light and magazine springs. It would seem to me that the light mounting is binding up the rails toward the muzzle end. Good luck, I hope that either Glock or Streamlight can come up with a solution for you. Unfortunately you may just have to bite the bullet and try another light.

iofdetiger
04-21-2011, 09:59
From what I've read, the light causes the slide velocity to increase which makes the magazine unable to keep up and chamber the rounds reliably. A new light might help, but from what I've researched, if your gun has this problem with one light, it'll have it with every light.

Im hoping someone here has experience with fixing the issues.

up1911fan
04-21-2011, 10:19
Just buy the new mag springs and get back to us.

iofdetiger
04-21-2011, 10:22
I want to get some advice first. While the magazine springs aren't that expensive, the range fees + ammo to test for failure is what adds up. I'm hoping that someone that has a solution that works before I spend all that money being a guinea pig.

barca101
04-21-2011, 10:48
I got a Glock 19 that I qualified with last Friday and had the same similiar problem that your experiencing. I have a SF X300 and would experience FTF. My department range master said to try it w/o the light on and it ran pefectly. He loaned me his Gen 4 Glock 17 mags and I ran the pistol with the light with no problems.

I ordered a 3 pack of the XP Wolf Springs and see if the problem goes away. Also, from my observation when I disassebled the magazines There is a big difference in the magazine follower. The old 9mm #3 mags, when I pushed the tip of the follower it would tilt down. My most recent mag with the #6 follower, when you push the tip of the follower down there is no tilting.

I"m going to try the springs first to see if thats the problem before I purchase the new followers.

Glockpimp
04-21-2011, 10:52
i've always used a light (TLR-1 and M3) on my 22's. what ammo do you primarily use? i think this problem is sometimes the fault of weak ammo.

voyager4520
04-21-2011, 10:57
Glock solved the issue in the G22's by switching the 10-coil magazine springs to 11-coil. G23 magazines use 9-coil springs, so I'd suggest trying a 10-coil spring in ONE of your magazines. I'd only try one at first because you don't want to replace all of your springs only to find out it doesn't fix the problem. Test it with one magazine first, if it works replace the rest of your springs. Putting a 10-coil spring in a G23 magazine may take away 1 round of capacity, but at least your gun will work with the light attached.

And the newest followers for .40 magazines are #9. The number will appear "9." with a period after it so that it doesn't get confused with #6 followers.

In my experience the #9 followers don't show any significant improvement over #8's.

Captains1911
04-21-2011, 11:04
I had the same problem with my G23 and TLR-1s, it would frequently FTfeed, the round would be jammed nose down into the bottom of the feed ramp. I replaced all my mag springs with ISMI +power 10 coil and the problem went away. Also, I have no problem loading 13rds into the mags with these springs.

http://www.glockmeister.com/ISMI-Extra-Power-10-Coil-Magazine-Spring/productinfo/ISMI10/

Captains1911
04-21-2011, 11:05
Not sure what your problem is, you did not say. I also have a 23 with a TLR-1 attached, works fine, no problems at all. It does get rather dirty hanging past the end of the barrel. I wiped it down with a little Vaseline before shooting yesterday and it cleaned right off with a just a rag after the range session. The light manufacture does recommend in the written instructions that come with the light not tightening down the mounting too tight on the 23 as it can bind up the slide.

Mine would FTF without the light being over-tightened. As for the powder residue, just cover it with a few layers of painters tape before a range session.

Captains1911
04-21-2011, 11:07
My 23 is only about 6 months old and I had had the light about a month. If as they said the newer ones have been corrected somehow to not bind up maybe that is why I have not had any issues. I really don't see the connection between the light and magazine springs. It would seem to me that the light mounting is binding up the rails toward the muzzle end. Good luck, I hope that either Glock or Streamlight can come up with a solution for you. Unfortunately you may just have to bite the bullet and try another light.

The mag springs have everything to do with it. The added weight of the light changes the cycling speed of the slide and if the mag springs aren't strong enough they can't keep up.

Directly form Streamlight's website:
http://www.streamlight.com/documents/issues/GlockIssues.pdf

AA#5
04-21-2011, 11:45
My SureFire light came with a warning about causing malfunctions in any polymer-framed pistol, so I installed in on my Sig P220 instead. I keep a handheld light with the Glocks. Reliability is more important than an attached light.

iofdetiger
04-21-2011, 12:43
I had the same problem with my G23 and TLR-1s, it would frequently FTfeed, the round would be jammed nose down into the bottom of the feed ramp. I replaced all my mag springs with ISMI +power 10 coil and the problem went away. Also, I have no problem loading 13rds into the mags with these springs.

http://www.glockmeister.com/ISMI-Extra-Power-10-Coil-Magazine-Spring/productinfo/ISMI10/

Awesome! Thanks for the info. Just what I needed. I ordered those springs. Let's hope it works.

Thanks again.

cowboy1964
04-21-2011, 13:06
Gen 3 .40's are notorious for this issue. One of the big promises of the Gen 4 was that this issue would once and for all be solved. Haven't heard if it has but haven't seen any complaints so...

I have a TLR-1 for my G4 19. I need to test it more but I don't expect any issues.

Hunng
04-21-2011, 13:19
Handheld light will solve this problem 100%!

Captains1911
04-21-2011, 13:23
Handheld light will solve this problem 100%!

Not really

KarlThomas
04-21-2011, 13:31
Handheld light will solve this problem 100%!

That's ignoring the problem, not solving it.



Good info, Captain.

Cruiser1
04-21-2011, 13:31
The mag springs have everything to do with it. The added weight of the light changes the cycling speed of the slide and if the mag springs aren't strong enough they can't keep up.

Directly form Streamlight's website:
http://www.streamlight.com/documents/issues/GlockIssues.pdf


OK, but mine works fine with the light attached, snuged down and the OEM springs in the mags. I have plus 2 floor plates on two out of the three 13 round mags that I have and have experienced none of the problems listed here. I am just a lucky guy, I suppose. Good idea using the tape, thank you.

Captains1911
04-21-2011, 13:53
OK, but mine works fine with the light attached, snuged down and the OEM springs in the mags. I have plus 2 floor plates on two out of the three 13 round mags that I have and have experienced none of the problems listed here. I am just a lucky guy, I suppose. Good idea using the tape, thank you.

It's not a problem with every gun, but for the ones that it is stronger mag springs are the solution.

Air Man
04-21-2011, 14:50
Reliability is more important than an attached light.

This is true unless you plan on blinding them with the light. :supergrin: The light also gives the enemy a nice target, just shoot at the light.

chukb
04-21-2011, 14:56
my stock rtf2 g23 works perfect with a glock gtl-10 in it.

Captains1911
04-21-2011, 15:01
my stock rtf2 g23 works perfect with a glock gtl-10 in it.

My G23 would throw the GTL-10 straight off the weapon under recoil.

blueroot
04-21-2011, 15:06
I had that problem, and it is now gone. I replaced the mag springs first, and that improved things, but wasn't a total fix. Eventually I took a file to the edges of the mag. The plastic area in front of the metal area. If you take a .40 round and try and slide it vertically in towards the metal you will notice a bit of resistance were the plastic catches it before it gets the metal. As the round is being pushed out, it would catch very slightly. The better spring helped force it through, but it wasn't until I filed it down so that cartridge could move through without drag, did the problem go away. I haven't had the problem since. Worked for me at least.

barca101
04-21-2011, 15:14
I went to shoot my Glock 19 at the range this afternoon. I replaced the OEM springs that I have not changed since 97 with the XP Wolff Springs that I purchased from Brownell. I shot approx. 150 of the department issued 147 gr. Federal JHP HST without any FTF. I shot it one handed, limp wristed, from the hip, double tap, and rapid fire without any problems. If you guys are having similar problems, it's a cheap fix and don't need to buy new followers and magazines. YMMV.

barca101
04-21-2011, 15:17
I forgot to add, I shot it with the SF X300 attached to the 19. Also, I meant to write since 2007 and not 1997. Duh!

LV_G26
04-21-2011, 16:06
There have definitely been reports of this problem before, especially it seems with some Gen3' s in .40 cal.

I have switched to all Gen 4's for my .40cal Glocks and have had great success with my Surefire X300 on my Gen 4 G23 and Gen 4 G22.

I have not seen any reports of these issues with weapons mounted lights on the Gen4 .40 cals.

Has anyone else heard of these issues on the Gen4's?

Snow and Ash
04-21-2011, 16:32
I have a Gen 3 G19 and a TLR-1 and I have not yet had any problems. I've probably only put 100 rounds through it with the light attached, though.

Roering
04-21-2011, 17:32
Is it not staying on when fired or are you having trouble holstering it into your tactical thigh holster?

iofdetiger
04-21-2011, 17:38
Is it not staying on when fired or are you having trouble holstering it into your tactical thigh holster?

Holstering into my thigh holster is always a pain. Glad I made the tactical switch to a tactical chest rig with a tactically mounted holster.

iofdetiger
04-28-2011, 08:48
I had the same problem with my G23 and TLR-1s, it would frequently FTfeed, the round would be jammed nose down into the bottom of the feed ramp. I replaced all my mag springs with ISMI +power 10 coil and the problem went away. Also, I have no problem loading 13rds into the mags with these springs.

http://www.glockmeister.com/ISMI-Extra-Power-10-Coil-Magazine-Spring/productinfo/ISMI10/

Thanks again. This looks like it solved the problem. Not a single issues in 200 rounds with the new mag springs.

RayB
04-28-2011, 22:58
Interesting thread with a happy ending, no less! :thumbsup:

Given the seriousness of the issue, and the timeline involved to resolve it, I'd respectfully recommend that this issue, and the fix for it, become a sticky... :dunno:

Anyway, great stuff! :wavey:

--Ray

racer88
04-30-2011, 21:47
I had the same problem with my G23 and TLR-1s, it would frequently FTfeed, the round would be jammed nose down into the bottom of the feed ramp. I replaced all my mag springs with ISMI +power 10 coil and the problem went away. Also, I have no problem loading 13rds into the mags with these springs.

http://www.glockmeister.com/ISMI-Extra-Power-10-Coil-Magazine-Spring/productinfo/ISMI10/

My G23 + TLR1 had this exact same problem. Took light off. No FTFs. And, I was disappointed (that I couldn't use the light). I will order these springs. Thanks!

swinokur
05-01-2011, 08:36
Lights that mount with a latch bar instead of a screw clamp don't seem to have this problem. The Insight weapon lights and the Surefire X300 use latch bars. I had one on my G22 and never had an issue. I moved it to my G30 and later to a G29SF and never had the problem. With the 40 caliber Glocks it seems like it is either a problem for the gitgo or never.

The Surefire X400 uses a screw clamp but I have not headr of the issue with them. The issue with them is sometimes they cost more than the gun !

RayB
05-01-2011, 18:19
Lights that mount with a latch bar instead of a screw clamp don't seem to have this problem. The Insight weapon lights and the Surefire X300 use latch bars...

The Surefire X400 uses a screw clamp but I have not headr of the issue with them. The issue with them is sometimes they cost more than the gun !


Yeah, the LaserMax rail-mounted lasers also use a screw-clamp, and I think this is a consideration for the laser holding zero. A plus or minus variable is no big deal for a weapon light, but for collimating a laser, it matters. :eyebrow:

Anyway, the tighter clamping with the screw-clamp setup apparently has a negative effect on the “firing harmonics” of some of the 40 S&W caliber Glocks, while somehow not affecting Glocks of other calibers. :dunno:

--Ray

swinokur
05-01-2011, 18:24
My M6X is a light laser combo and even with a latch bar holds zero well, and I'm using it on a G29SF with very hot Swamp Fox ammo. no issues.

racer88
05-14-2011, 08:55
OK... Got my springs from Glockmeister. I have four G23 mags, so I installed 2 of the new springs, leaving 2 mags with the OEM springs. Went to the range yesterday and tested the OEM vs. the Glockmeister 10-coil power springs. Ammo was WWB FMJ. TLR-1 light.

With the OEM mags, I got about 6 failures to feed per 100 rounds. With the Glockmeister springs... ZERO failures.

As far as the new springs' resistance to loading, I felt they were a little stiffer. But, I use an Uplula mag loader (LOVE IT!). So, it's simply not an issue.

I'm thankful for this forum and the collective intelligence I can access. I had removed my TLR-1 from my G23, as it is one of my HD pistols, and I don't want failures like that. I will test some more, of course. But, I'm very happy to have solved this issue! Thanks GT!!

barstoolguru
05-14-2011, 09:11
get rid of the light........ why would you want to hold a light on someone with the gun pionted at them at the same time. we just had a shooting by a police dept here in ft worth where the cop was trying to turn on the light on and shot the person by
accident

racer88
05-14-2011, 09:56
get rid of the light........ why would you want to hold a light on someone with the gun pionted at them at the same time. we just had a shooting by a police dept here in ft worth where the cop was trying to turn on the light on and shot the person by
accident

I fully understand the pros and cons of gun-mounted lights. I've weighed them... and decided to keep it. Everything has pros and cons. There is no perfect set-up. Just got through 'splainin' this to a friend who is considering his first gun. No such thing as the perfect set-up.

If an intruder is in my house, the first thing he'll see is my light. The next thing he'll see is another "white light." Actually, the inside of my home is dimly lit at night. So, I may not need the light at all. But, I like having it there if needed for any reason.

If a cop confused the trigger with the light switch... well... does that even need any further commentary?? Seriously. How does one confuse the two? Kinda like confusing the brake and the gas in a car. If you can't figure that out, it's long past time you gave it up.
http://i1042.photobucket.com/albums/b425/racer88_bucket/Gun%20Stuff/Glock23_0002.jpg

barstoolguru
05-14-2011, 10:35
quote: If an intruder is in my house, the first thing he'll see is my light. The next thing he'll see is another "white light." Actually, the inside of my home is dimly lit at night. So, I may not need the light at all. But, I like having it there if needed for any reason.

that sounds fine but what if you are out looking around the house and one of your kids pop up. you might have to point the gun at them to ID them and thats a bad thing. lots of LE train with a flashlight and gun to avoid this problem. a laser is in my opion better for low light Situations like getting out of bed fuzzy headed. Not only will it aid in aiming but when used proper it will not give away you position and hopefully avoid a stray bullet hitting some one that it was not intended for. Crimson trace puts out a FREE cd on lasers. Get one and it might change your mind

Joshhtn
05-14-2011, 10:56
OK... Got my springs from Glockmeister. I have four G23 mags, so I installed 2 of the new springs, leaving 2 mags with the OEM springs. Went to the range yesterday and tested the OEM vs. the Glockmeister 10-coil power springs. Ammo was WWB FMJ. TLR-1 light.

With the OEM mags, I got about 6 failures to feed per 100 rounds. With the Glockmeister springs... ZERO failures.

As far as the new springs' resistance to loading, I felt they were a little stiffer. But, I use an Uplula mag loader (LOVE IT!). So, it's simply not an issue.

I'm thankful for this forum and the collective intelligence I can access. I had removed my TLR-1 from my G23, as it is one of my HD pistols, and I don't want failures like that. I will test some more, of course. But, I'm very happy to have solved this issue! Thanks GT!!


Glad you got it all figured out.

racer88
05-14-2011, 10:59
a laser is in my opion better for low light Situations like getting out of bed fuzzy headed. Not only will it aid in aiming but when used proper it will not give away you position and hopefully avoid a stray bullet hitting some one that it was not intended for. Crimson trace puts out a FREE cd on lasers. Get one and it might change your mind

haha.... look at my photo (above) again. Laser, too. :)

hoffy
05-14-2011, 11:10
I have heard of the problems, and am sure they exist, but have been lucky myself. I have a SureFire 200, and the Glock light/laser, and have had zero issues with either on a G-35, G-20, G-29, XD 357, HK P-2000SK (the Glock only fits that IIRC) .

A friends kid got hired by a local LEO and he needed a brush-up to qualify and he had a G 22 with a TLR, and he ran a few hundred WWB and hundreds more of my hand loads with zero issues, that gun was a gen 3. Hope you get it worked out.

Captains1911
05-14-2011, 15:28
get rid of the light........ why would you want to hold a light on someone with the gun pionted at them at the same time. we just had a shooting by a police dept here in ft worth where the cop was trying to turn on the light on and shot the person by
accident

Completely irrelevant to the topic of discussion.

To the people here whose problems have been solved by my suggestion, always glad to help. Just keep an eye on those springs and you should be GTG.

RayB
05-15-2011, 21:42
get rid of the light........ why would you want to hold a light on someone with the gun pionted at them at the same time. we just had a shooting by a police dept here in ft worth where the cop was trying to turn on the light on and shot the person by
accident


I wouldn't dismiss a well-proven concept and device on account of one dumb cop! :upeyes:

As racer88 so aptly put it, "If a cop confused the trigger with the light switch... well... does that even need any further commentary?? Seriously. How does one confuse the two? Kinda like confusing the brake and the gas in a car. If you can't figure that out, it's long past time you gave it up."

Attached are two pics of my G21 with weapon lights and lasers...

How in the hell would a trained professional confuse those three activators--laser, light, and trigger? :dunno:

That's one cop that should be flying a desk, since today's cops are next to impossible to fire! ** :freak:

There (probably) goes the next Chief of Police... :shakehead:

--Ray

** Forgive me--I'm from Wisconsin!

racer88
05-29-2011, 12:33
Put another 150 rounds through my G23 with light attached (and new Glockmeister mag springs). Not a single hiccup! Problem solved! Thanks again!