Well, Looks Like I'll Be Drink'n Blue [Archive] - Glock Talk

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BENCH
04-23-2011, 11:19
After a month of looking, reading, researching, PM'ing, Emails, and reading threads here, I have decided to buy a Dillon.

It was between a LnL and Dillon, but it was a lady at Clark's Guns that convinced me.

My wife got her conceal carry permit, and will be carrying a G23, so I need a press to load a lot of rounds.

I gonna go the 550 route. I will only load .40, and .223 rounds, so set up shouldn't be real bad.

Bench

XDRoX
04-23-2011, 11:26
Welcome to the club. You made a wise decision.

Boxerglocker
04-23-2011, 12:33
Good choice very versitle press. Look ay buying from Brian Enos for free shipping deals.

BENCH
04-23-2011, 12:39
I feel I have a made a good choice. Look forward to loading some rounds on it.

Bench

cowboy1964
04-23-2011, 12:49
550 is great. I'll have one eventually.

D. Manley
04-23-2011, 13:01
I feel I have a made a good choice. Look forward to loading some rounds on it.

Bench

You'll never regret going Dillon...you'll find there are any number of very good reasons for their reputation. Congratulations and welcome to the club.

albyihat
04-23-2011, 15:07
Just keep in mind the learning curve can be steep if you are not so mechanically inclined. Ask around at your local range or gun shop to see if someone who loads on a 550 will help you set it up. The instructions are good and dillion will help on the phone as well so don't stress if you can't find anyone. But overall I would say the 550 is a very easy press to set up and use. Welcome to the progressive club.

Colorado4Wheel
04-23-2011, 15:33
Good choice.

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 15:36
Good choice.


How would you know... you don't even own a press. :supergrin:

(Taking a break from sizing.)


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-23-2011, 15:42
I do own this old orange colored Lyman. Besides that I am pressless. It stinks.

rjrivero
04-23-2011, 15:45
Welcome to the club. My Dillon choice was about 20 years ago, and I couldn't be happier.

I too said I would load one pistol caliber and one rifle caliber. Here I set with complete tool heads for .223, 30-06, 40 S&W, 45ACP, 9mm, 38 special/Mag, 44 special/Mag, and the latest addition, 300 BLK.

My shelf has more powders than my cupboard has spices. ;)

labdwakin
04-23-2011, 15:50
Should be a good press for you, man!

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 15:50
I do own this old orange colored Lyman. Besides that I am pressless. It stinks.


That press has had many tens of thousands of rounds through it... you young'uns are a bunch of spoiled sissies. :rofl:


Jack

hoffy
04-23-2011, 15:51
Second on the good choice, Colorado4Wheel and I have a common experience with one you rejected, and it was not a good one..........

Bello
04-23-2011, 15:58
Welcome to the club!

mmerrill64
04-23-2011, 15:58
My wife got me a 650 for my bday last year. Dillion is the cadillac of reloading machines! My Rockchucker has seen little use since I got the Dillon!
You won't regret buying one, money well spent!

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 15:59
Second on the good choice, Colorado4Wheel and I have a common experience with one you rejected, and it was not a good one..........


No, Hoffy, you don't have the same experience. You bought a display model of a newly designed press which had, by your own constant admission, most of the parts missing.

You took a gamble by buying a $400 dollar press for $150 and your gamble didn't pay off. Would you complain about all Fords because you bought a Model T and it didn't have air conditioning?

Find a new tune to sing... this one's getting real old.


Jack

rick458
04-23-2011, 16:04
You will enjoy your RL-550 it is a great press.
If you hit a snag setting it up "Don't suffer in silence" use the tech line
You tube it or post on one of the many good reloading forums its likely that issue has been dealt with a cople of hundred times.

IndyGunFreak
04-23-2011, 16:13
No, Hoffy, you don't have the same experience. You bought a display model of a newly designed press which had, by your own constant admission, most of the parts missing.

You took a gamble by buying a $400 dollar press for $150 and your gamble didn't pay off. Would you complain about all Fords because you bought a Model T and it didn't have air conditioning?

Find a new tune to sing... this one's getting real old.


Jack

I agree... Remember a while ago.. a GT'er bought a used 650 that was missing some parts... When he called Dillon to order them, they charged him for them, and he was kinda "so much for the NO BS warranty".... Sometimes you gamble and win, sometimes you don't.

IGF

Uncle Don
04-23-2011, 16:29
You took a gamble by buying a $400 dollar press for $150 and your gamble didn't pay off. Would you complain about all Fords because you bought a Model T and it didn't have air conditioning?

Jack

:rofl: You crack me up more than anyone I've encountered on this board. I wish I could put my thoughts into such a short understandable way.

Boxerglocker
04-23-2011, 16:51
I agree... Remember a while ago.. a GT'er bought a used 650 that was missing some parts... When he called Dillon to order them, they charged him for them, and he was kinda "so much for the NO BS warranty".... Sometimes you gamble and win, sometimes you don't.

IGF

I remember that post, key word he ordered them. Incomplete press missing parts, he told them is was purchased that way. No warranty due in my opinion.
He would have been better off sending it in and paying the refurb fee, even then charging him for parts not there other than a misc spring or screw would have been justified in such a case. You can'd buy a used beat up 450 and expect Dillon to upgrade it to a 550b at the refurb fee alone. If you read the warranty it's no BS but pretty explicit, breaks and they will replace it, some just get lucky in most cases when they replace something lost for free. I know I have a couple on occansions when buying my used SDB's. I got a complete primer system for free, then the rebuilt the old one too.

ipscshooter
04-23-2011, 17:27
Good choice. I've got three Dillions. The no B.S. is for real. I called a few weeks ago and told them I needed a small part (spring). The only question they ask was where to send it. Hard to beat that, and they sent the part along with a few extras.

EL_NinO619
04-23-2011, 17:47
Welcome to the Cult..

IndyGunFreak
04-23-2011, 19:05
I remember that post, key word he ordered them. Incomplete press missing parts, he told them is was purchased that way. No warranty due in my opinion.
He would have been better off sending it in and paying the refurb fee, even then charging him for parts not there other than a misc spring or screw would have been justified in such a case..

Absolutely.. I totally agree he should have been charged... I just found it funny that because he bought a Dillon that he knew was missing a few things, it was Dillon's fault because they didn't honor their "No BS" warranty.

PCJim
04-23-2011, 20:14
The 550b is a great press, and adaptable to either progressive or single stage use. You'll be well pleased. Hope you ordered some extra primer pickup tubes...

shotgunred
04-23-2011, 20:27
well I guess that if you couldn't afford a LNL a 550 will due.....Barely!

EL_NinO619
04-24-2011, 00:30
Don't Forget to order the Dillon "Precision" Safety Pin. So those spent primers don't fly everywhere.

EL_NinO619
04-24-2011, 00:38
I just priced out a 650.. $764.00. Well see, that's one expensive experiment. But i would be cool to be like jack and have each press designated for a caliber.

Boxerglocker
04-24-2011, 00:43
I just priced out a 650.. $764.00. Well see, that's one expensive experiment. But i would be cool to be like jack and have each press designated for a caliber.

Why don't you just put a couple of casefeeders on your LNL's? :dunno:

EL_NinO619
04-24-2011, 00:48
Why don't you just put a couple of casefeeders on your LNL's? :dunno:

Oh I am, i was just looking..You know kinda wondering what the other guys girlfriend might be like..:whistling:

But the again, I have a Springfield 1911 Operator dancing in my head also..:supergrin:

dudel
04-24-2011, 06:05
Good choice. +1 on looking to get it from Brian Enos.

kshutt
04-24-2011, 07:11
There are probably more 550's on reloading benches across America than any other progressive press. You made a good decision. Dillon also does an admirable job of running a first-class company, while providing an unparalleled level of customer support for their products. Welcome to the BLUE side! :wavey:

Colorado4Wheel
04-24-2011, 08:48
I just priced out a 650.. $764.00. Well see, that's one expensive experiment. But i would be cool to be like jack and have each press designated for a caliber.

My LnL experiment cost my $830.

shotgunred
04-24-2011, 09:09
Mine cost $78. in shipping. Isn't hornady suppose to take some of the sting out of that for you?

hoffy
04-24-2011, 09:32
Comparing me to someone who bought a used Dillon and had problems is comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps I over emphasized my disdain at having to buy a complete ram top end in order to replace a few priming parts. Hornady has replaced a toggle gratis, and I appreciate it. The press runs fine in every respect, in the exception that it will not hold an OAL. I examined it for abuse when I bought it, there was no scaring of the shell plate or nut, nor was there any scaring of the underside of the top of the press, the areas that would show marks if people were busting rocks or crushing cans. The ram had many more marks on it after I ran fifty rounds through it(lubricated) that it did at the store dry. The OAL problem has been with me since nearly the start, the first 50 rounds I ran after set up I scrutinized, and all was well, then I scrutinized at random, OK, but odds were getting by, and the problem got worse, when I pulled it, after several thousand rounds, half or less had acceptable OAL. I am sorry I make you tired, maybe you should get more rest, I know I need more, but that is neither here nor there, there are at least two people who have had problems with the red press. Why should I hold my tongue when people ask if anyone has had problems, that is the purpose these boards serve. I am truly happy for people that have machines that run, but their anger and refusal to accept that all the reds aren't perfect is puzzling.

In future I will not explain how I got my machine to run well in all ways except one, I will just tell newbies that my machine will not hold OAL and leave it at that for people that tire easily. On second thought I won't, for people considering upgrading to a shell plate holder that will accept a feeder, which is what I had to buy for mine, why should that have anything to do with OAL, it shouldn't, but I never ran my press until I had that part...... I will quit responding until I talk to Hornady again, I have talked to them several times and it is much better talking to people working on things, rather than pencil pushers, you get more honest answers. One tech told me about the grease fittings-purely a marketing gimmick, people seem to think they need them, and they don't . I was told this after most of mine came out after using thin bicycle bearing grease. My Rock Chucker has probably run a million cycles in 35 years, or close, and I have cleaned and oiled the linkage/toggle ~3 times in all those years, and it is still quite tight. I hope I can report I have a running red press..........

I have a shock absorber that I bought for my motorcycle, that is Marine Corps issue, that failed after 1200 miles, and the company will not back it up. Should I not tell people of that experience on that board? I guess it boils down to a Ford or Chevy kind of thing, there are guys in this dogpatch town who fight in bars over such things, never understood it myself. ( I ride motorcycles, no dog in that fight now )

shotgunred
04-24-2011, 10:09
You were upfront about you purchase of the press and you have put it to work. your experience is as valid as anyone else. To me the annoying people are the ones who have never used the product they are talking about or the I have run 5 rounds through my new press and it is the greatest thing since sliced bread guys.

Also you have to realize that there are guys that don't care if the powder throw is the same every time and about varying OAL as long as the bullet goes bang they are happy. Then there is Steve. I mean a perfectionist. While I don't agree with everything he says I can be certain that if it is good enough for him than it is good enough for me.:thumbsup:

Mileage varies by person.

EL_NinO619
04-24-2011, 10:49
I have no issues with oal in fact it is very accurate. Now I do not have 50,000 rounds on it. But I know for a fact if you use crappy bullets you will very wide spread oal on a dillon ask chris. One time we loaded 223 and it was all over the place.

shotgunred
04-24-2011, 10:56
That solid top was one of the big selling points with me. The only reasons for different OAL should be an inconsistent stroke or variations in bullets.

Colorado4Wheel
04-24-2011, 11:12
I have no issues with oal in fact it is very accurate. Now I do not have 50,000 rounds on it. But I know for a fact if you use crappy bullets you will very wide spread oal on a dillon ask chris. One time we loaded 223 and it was all over the place.

Which has zero to do with the press. We need to lock you and Bello in a room and see who comes out alive.

EL_NinO619
04-24-2011, 11:16
I'm going now yo load some .45 and will call Xdrox production studios to see if there free for a video shot today. I will post later today. I will run my normal speed, nl showing off and even calip some rounds on video. Anything,else you guys would like to see

shotgunred
04-24-2011, 11:44
That is just mean Steve. He adds constructive input to the forum.

Colorado4Wheel
04-24-2011, 11:55
He all proud that his LnL works. It's a Easter Miracle. I would get it on video as well.

EL_NinO619
04-24-2011, 14:50
Dillon 4 Life..I Enjoy how sassy you Dillon owners get..When i get my 650 will you accept me into the Family?

AFPD118
04-24-2011, 17:12
Go blue, congrats, have a 550 B here

BENCH
05-06-2011, 06:19
Not drinkin Blue now!!!!!!!!!!
SOB sold it out from under me! Probably sold to one of the club members for a few dollars more.

Bastard!

AHHHH What goes around comes around

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 06:41
Originally Posted by GioaJack
You took a gamble by buying a $400 dollar press for $150 and your gamble didn't pay off. Would you complain about all Fords because you bought a Model T and it didn't have air conditioning?

Jack
You crack me up more than anyone I've encountered on this board. I wish I could put my thoughts into such a short understandable way. While I agree with your admiration. I don't think it's funny. I'd say honest with high moral character. Not a crowd follower just because that's what is popular at the moment. Knows how to call a spade a spade. Plus his pair still work. :)

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 07:30
I have no practical experience with a Dillon. Just the LNL. Should I buy a casefeeder, and stick it out. Hornady is honestly working at making this press 100% . Or should I sell it and buy a Dillon 650. My indecision comes from reading Hornady is working hard to get things 100% right. The Dillon's are marginally nicer in the same arena. Although the faults the 550 & 650 have. They have had for many years. Why doesn't Dillon fix them. Don't they know how. Or is it why should we. As long as we are still on top. Granted neither company has much wrong with their product. It just bugs me a tad when I find these aftermarket parts that Dillon users admit they buy. Why doesn't Dillon just incorporate that into the press? Seems to me that would end the R vs B debate. I apologize if these guestions are old.

I am really interested in this. I have been seating CCI primers just fine on my press. Maybe it's because I have a steal pedestal it's mounted on. Jack had LNL's with CF's and wasn't having problems. Was he? I know he switched to 1050's. I'm just wondering if Hornady had a model like it. What he may have done.

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 08:06
Jack has issues with cases falling off the slider as well (not often but it happens). He loads slower as well. Slower you load the less problems you will have with the LnL.

The case feeder for the LnL is only $250 ish. Just get it if your already happy with your existing LnL. I didn't realize you had a LnL already.

The 650 and 550 don't have a bunch of faults. Forums pick things apart just for the hell of it. Anything can be improved. Don't confuse improvement with a fault.

unclebob
05-06-2011, 08:38
I have no practical experience with a Dillon. Just the LNL. Should I buy a casefeeder, and stick it out. Hornady is honestly working at making this press 100% . Or should I sell it and buy a Dillon 650. My indecision comes from reading Hornady is working hard to get things 100% right. The Dillon's are marginally nicer in the same arena. Although the faults the 550 & 650 have. They have had for many years. Why doesn't Dillon fix them. Don't they know how. Or is it why should we. As long as we are still on top. Granted neither company has much wrong with their product. It just bugs me a tad when I find these aftermarket parts that Dillon users admit they buy. Why doesn't Dillon just incorporate that into the press? Seems to me that would end the R vs B debate. I apologize if these guestions are old.

I am really interested in this. I have been seating CCI primers just fine on my press. Maybe it's because I have a steal pedestal it's mounted on. Jack had LNL's with CF's and wasn't having problems. Was he? I know he switched to 1050's. I'm just wondering if Hornady had a model like it. What he may have done.

What faults do you think Dillon press's have? Yes the Dillon press is not 100% perfect. But just curious in what you think are the flaws on a Dillon?

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 10:44
If you like your LNL you shouldn't be afraid to get a case feeder.
I'll admit I had some problems with the cases falling off but only with small cases like 9mm and 380, and then not that often.
The problem always came up when I was loading pretty fast even though my press is rock solid on the bench.
If you look at the pictures in the other thread I fixed the problem without adding a plastic tube or anything I just lowered the drop tube a little.
I don't have any problems with the case tipping when going in to the shell plate even with Glock fired 9mm brass, but if it is a problem there is an easy fix for it.
About all I use is CCI primers not really by choice but because I get them wholesale.
I do notice that Win primers do seat a little easier then CCI but it's not an issue for me.
Both the LNL and the 650 are great presses in IMO, some things are better on one then the other but it's just by choice what suite your needs better.
Until Steve had the problems he had with his LNL I never saw any problem that couldn't be remedied on the newer machines.
But there are exceptions and it doesn't matter if it's blue, green or red.
I'm satisfied with the LNL it meets my needs and then some, the only press I would want (not need) over my LNL would be my neighbors older Dillon 1000.

Bob

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 10:54
If you like your LNL you shouldn't be afraid to get a case feeder.
I'll admit I had some problems with the cases falling off but only with small cases like 9mm and 380, and then not that often.
The problem always came up when I was loading pretty fast even though my press is rock solid on the bench.
If you look at the pictures in the other thread I fixed the problem without adding a plastic tube or anything I just lowered the drop tube a little.
I don't have any problems with the case tipping when going in to the shell plate even with Glock fired 9mm brass, but if it is a problem there is an easy fix for it.
About all I use is CCI primers not really by choice but because I get them wholesale.
I do notice that Win primers do seat a little easier then CCI but it's not an issue for me.
Both the LNL and the 650 are great presses in IMO, some things are better on one then the other but it's just by choice what suite your needs better.
Until Steve had the problems he had with his LNL I never saw any problem that couldn't be remedied on the newer machines.
But there are exceptions and it doesn't matter if it's blue, green or red.
I'm satisfied with the LNL it meets my needs and then some, the only press I would want (not need) over my LNL would be my neighbors older Dillon 1000.

Bob Not sure of the other thread your referring to.

fredj338
05-06-2011, 10:59
I have no practical experience with a Dillon. Just the LNL. Should I buy a casefeeder, and stick it out. Hornady is honestly working at making this press 100% . Or should I sell it and buy a Dillon 650. My indecision comes from reading Hornady is working hard to get things 100% right. The Dillon's are marginally nicer in the same arena. Although the faults the 550 & 650 have. They have had for many years. Why doesn't Dillon fix them. Don't they know how. Or is it why should we. As long as we are still on top. Granted neither company has much wrong with their product. It just bugs me a tad when I find these aftermarket parts that Dillon users admit they buy. Why doesn't Dillon just incorporate that into the press? Seems to me that would end the R vs B debate. I apologize if these guestions are old.

I am really interested in this. I have been seating CCI primers just fine on my press. Maybe it's because I have a steal pedestal it's mounted on. Jack had LNL's with CF's and wasn't having problems. Was he? I know he switched to 1050's. I'm just wondering if Hornady had a model like it. What he may have done.
After market parts are not a flaw that needs fixing. Many of the things just aren't needed, but some people like them. Adding everything to the press would raise the price for those that don't want all the bells & whistles. Same for the LNL. It's sold sans case feeder, primer warning, etc.:dunno: No press is perfect IMO, at least I haven't seen one yet, but some just run better than others. Cost is always going to be a factor. I could build the "perfect" press for me, but at what cost?

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 11:09
Not sure of the other thread your referring to.


http://glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1340462


Bob

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 12:13
So how fast can you load 9mm with that setup?

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 12:46
So how fast can you load 9mm with that setup?

I'm not sure about time on 9mm I havent really loaded that many at a time and never watched a clock, but I have loaded quite a few 380's and they did go pretty fast. The 380's were the main reason I even messed with the drop tube they really bounce, I loaded over 800 380's at one setting but didnt time it?
I wished I would have been watching the forum when you were having problems to see if the fix of lowering the Vee block would have fixed your case tipping problem?
Once you get everything to work on those little 380's you have it whipped for anything else.
I'll be loading more 9mm soon when I get my new 9'er, thats suppose to be here today! :banana:!
I'll see what kind of time it takes to load a 100 and any problems that stop things.
I hardly have any problems that stop the press or case feeder with 45's or 40's but their probably more forgiving then 9's?
I just got 3 K of mixed range brass so it will be a good test to see if primer print has any effect?
I hate it you got a lemon after I told you how well I liked my LNL but I'm also glad you got it squared away and have a press you like.

Bob

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 12:56
Your awesome for that great response.

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 13:08
Why thank you Steve

Bob

ron59
05-06-2011, 14:58
Your awesome for that great response.

Why thank you Steve

Bob

Hey! Get a room, you two!

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 15:36
After market parts are not a flaw that needs fixing. Many of the things just aren't needed, but some people like them. Adding everything to the press would raise the price for those that don't want all the bells & whistles. Same for the LNL. It's sold sans case feeder, primer warning, etc.:dunno: No press is perfect IMO, at least I haven't seen one yet, but some just run better than others. Cost is always going to be a factor. I could build the "perfect" press for me, but at what cost? Fred the main reason I am asking questions is to get an idea if the 650 is what I want. I am not basing anything on price so much as time. I have loads worked up that I am super happy with. So I feel no need to experiment further. I am now at the stage I want as much production possible. With the least amount of effort and time. However if the Dillon is only able to produce an average of 50 rounds an hour more. What's the point. I personally find much of what C4W says very helpful. In the same venue much of the remarks made by other Dillon users are made just because Steve said so. I get the impression if Steve said he started ****ting Blue after 1000 rounds. Half the forum would be doing the same.

I look at guys like Jack and Bob2223 who I assume have been loading for 40 plus years. I can't help wonder why they are choosing to load on LNL's. Opposed to 650's. 1050's are a different thing all together. I also wonder if what some perceive as slow with the LNL is just because it's so smooth. The 650 does appear-for lack of a better word - to operate much more jerky.

Bottom line. I think either press would suit my needs. I'm very tempted to just buy the Hornady CF. While following Bob2223's suggestion. Just to prove a point one way or the other. That's not saying I'm totally ruling out Dillon.

sellersm
05-06-2011, 16:18
casesensitive, I applaud your efforts to find out if the 650 is for you or not! I'd suggest you expand your search all across the web if you haven't done so yet (you may already have) and see if the 650 is used in a high-volume production type of setting or not. I know for sure the 1050 is.

I don't own a Dillon, nor do I own a Hornady, so I've got no "skin in the game".

As to your suggestion that Jack & others have been reloading a long time, and wondering why they've chosen a Hornady, you may want to expand your reading, if you haven't already, on this forum to see the history of what other products they own and why (especially Jack).

Some of the credence given to Steve's analysis is because he used a fairly methodical, analytical approach and isn't interested in the color or label of the press, just what works and what doesn't -- at least that's the way I've interpreted his posts.

As for me, from what I've concluded from my research, a 650 with casefeeder would be very well suited for a high rate of production without any hiccups. You must come to your own conclusions, and when you do, I'd be interested in reading them!

Boxerglocker
05-06-2011, 16:35
Fred the main reason I am asking questions is to get an idea if the 650 is what I want. I am not basing anything on price so much as time. I have loads worked up that I am super happy with. So I feel no need to experiment further. I am now at the stage I want as much production possible. With the least amount of effort and time. However if the Dillon is only able to produce an average of 50 rounds an hour more. What's the point. I personally find much of what C4W says very helpful. In the same venue much of the remarks made by other Dillon users are made just because Steve said so. I get the impression if Steve said he started ****ting Blue after 1000 rounds. Half the forum would be doing the same.

I look at guys like Jack and Bob2223 who I assume have been loading for 40 plus years. I can't help wonder why they are choosing to load on LNL's. Opposed to 650's. 1050's are a different thing all together. I also wonder if what some perceive as slow with the LNL is just because it's so smooth. The 650 does appear-for lack of a better word - to operate much more jerky.

Bottom line. I think either press would suit my needs. I'm very tempted to just buy the Hornady CF. While following Bob2223's suggestion. Just to prove a point one way or the other. That's not saying I'm totally ruling out Dillon.

It all brakes down to what your expectations are of the press you are buying.

C4W and mine are pretty much on line… high quality rounds with minimal time at the bench. I like being able to fill 3 primer tubes, throw a bin of lubed empty cases in the casefeeder hopper, place bullets onto the bullet tray and blast through completing 300-400 rounds at a rate of 800 plus an hour. Minimal time at the bench and your done.

Others claim that the time issue isn't a big factor to them, that's fine…. It wasn't for me at one stage but now it is. I don't doubt that reloading can/is a relaxing hobby, it is for everyone in one way or another. In my case less so…for me… I want 2K of 9mm (2 different loads) and 600 rounds of my pet .223 load and walk away from the bench till I either need more or need to develop another to fit my requirements. Shooting is priority reloading helps me accomplish it. I made a decision based on the design and what I felt it could accomplished as opposed to others. So, the decision has proven to be the right one for me.

It's your choice, up to you to set your expectations based on the opinion here, what you read from the manufacturer and others, what common sense tells you about the product design and it's published ratedattributes.

Good luck with your choice and the direction it takes you. :cool:

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 16:49
casesensitive, I applaud your efforts to find out if the 650 is for you or not! I'd suggest you expand your search all across the web if you haven't done so yet (you may already have) and see if the 650 is used in a high-volume production type of setting or not. I know for sure the 1050 is.

I don't own a Dillon, nor do I own a Hornady, so I've got no "skin in the game".

As to your suggestion that Jack & others have been reloading a long time, and wondering why they've chosen a Hornady, you may want to expand your reading, if you haven't already, on this forum to see the history of what other products they own and why (especially Jack).

Some of the credence given to Steve's analysis is because he used a fairly methodical, analytical approach and isn't interested in the color or label of the press, just what works and what doesn't -- at least that's the way I've interpreted his posts.

As for me, from what I've concluded from my research, a 650 with casefeeder would be very well suited for a high rate of production without any hiccups. You must come to your own conclusions, and when you do, I'd be interested in reading them! I'll be sure to let you know. Although I respect what Steve has to say. I detect a little bias because of his bad experience. I surely haven't had time to read everything. There's just so much research one can do. Especially when most of what you read is based on what the poster has read. Not experienced. Sometimes hard to wade through that. My personal use has been all LNL. Progressive wise. I really don't need a case feeder. I shoot roughly 1,500 rounds a month. What I am trying to accomplish is efficient use of my loading time. I really don't have much time to reload. About 5 hours a month . One maybe two short sessions a week. I am currently shooting 2 calibers. I have attached a file of what I felt would be the items you'd need at bare minimum . Staying with Hornady I'd just be adding a CF.

Boxer Who's AR you shooting

shotgunred
05-06-2011, 17:41
Steve isn't the only person that tried the LNL Ap and then returned it for a Dillon he is just the most vocal. I did the same thing but I returned mine to were I bought it in the first month. I just chose to be a lot less vocal because unlike him I didn't try and try to get it to work for me. There defiantly things I like about the LNL. If it was my first progressive press I would have a better opinion of it. But I was judging it against a 550 that I owned for 4 years first.
The LNL never felt better than the 550. After the third loading session I knew the 650 was the right press.

The LNL AP, the 550B and the 650 all are capable of turning out more ammo than the average person needs. There are people on this foourm that have had problems with all three and others that love all three. It is really about how much you want to spend vs how much you are willing to fiddle with them. After owning all three of them I personally I rate them....
#1 Dillon XL650
#2 Dillon 550B
#3 Hornady LNL AP

If production is what you are after and you shoot more than one caliber then the 650 is your choice.

If you already own a LNL then it would be cheaper to buy a case feeder and try Uncle Bobs fixes if you need to. Or just skip it and buy the bullet feeder instead.

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 18:07
Hey! Get a room, you two!

I just liked the total lack of BS.

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 18:11
I'll be sure to let you know. Although I respect what Steve has to say. I detect a little bias because of his bad experience.

LoL Experience isn't BIAS.

shotgunred
05-06-2011, 18:22
I just looked at your shopping list.

Dillon Casefeed Plate Small Pistol
The case feeder assembly comes with one. You only need one if you need two different sizes.

Dillon's Instructional DVDs for Reloading Machines
Completely unnecessary the 650 is easy to set up. If you have any issues youtube it.

Dillon Primer Flip Tray
Shouldn't you already have a flip tray?

Rapid Polish 290 (8 oz. Bottle)
Try n finish car wax

Dillon Roller Handle (Aluminum)
Some people like them some don't. Not necessary

Good luck in your choice.

Boxerglocker
05-06-2011, 19:05
Boxer Who's AR you shooting

Daniel Defense DDM4V2

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 19:39
Daniel Defense DDM4V2


Nice Boxer !

My self built flat top.
Douglas stainless bull 1 in 9 twist, Olympic lower, Leupold 4.5x14 LRT.
1/2 inch groups are pretty with 69 gn MK's

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/BobMKIII/100_2622.jpg


Bob

VN350X10
05-06-2011, 20:46
Bob2223,
You posted about a neighbor having a Dillon 1000.......

Get him to leave it to you in his will, God knows that nobody that has those EVER sell them !

uncle albert

(on bench, l to r...
Lee 1000, Dillon SDB, Dillon 650 w/casefeed, Dillon 1050, Dillon 525, plus not mounted, benched as needed, RCBS RC, Bonanza Co-Ax, Lyman Spar-T
Yeah, I've been at this a while....

Boxerglocker
05-06-2011, 20:47
Nice Boxer !

My self built flat top.
Douglas stainless bull 1 in 9 twist, Olympic lower, Leupold 4.5x14 LRT.
1/2 inch groups are pretty with 69 gn MK's

Bob

Nice bull barrel... as you see mines more of a run and gun model.

http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=215461&d=1301550489

My next with be a super light weight. Strictly match rifle.

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 21:00
Bob2223,
You posted about a neighbor having a Dillon 1000.......

Get him to leave it to you in his will, God knows that nobody that has those EVER sell them !

uncle albert

(on bench, l to r...
Lee 1000, Dillon SDB, Dillon 650 w/casefeed, Dillon 1050, Dillon 525, plus not mounted, benched as needed, RCBS RC, Bonanza Co-Ax, Lyman Spar-T
Yeah, I've been at this a while....


The 1000 is about as nice as they come.
You have some nice stuff !

Bob

VN350X10
05-06-2011, 21:04
And I learned long ago to put all of my tooling, by caliber, in a 3 ring binder so I know exactly what I have. This was prompted by the day I decided to do an inventory & came up with about a dozen shell holders, ALL THE SAME !
It's gotten to the point that when I buy a new rifle/pistol, the wife asks "You got loading dies for that ?"

uncle albert

Bob2223
05-06-2011, 21:06
And I learned long ago to put all of my tooling, by caliber, in a 3 ring binder so I know exactly what I have. This was prompted by the day I decided to do an inventory & came up with about a dozen shell holders, ALL THE SAME !
It's gotten to the point that when I buy a new rifle/pistol, the wife asks "You got loading dies for that ?"

uncle albert

:supergrin:

Bob

casesensitive
05-07-2011, 07:19
LoL Experience isn't BIAS. Steve , All I meant is we base are judgement by our experiences. I didn't mean you went into owning an LNL biased. But you sure are now. Same thing goes for your Dillon's. Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes it's difficult to type out what you're trying to say. I meant you no offense

casesensitive
05-07-2011, 07:29
I just looked at your shopping list.

Dillon Casefeed Plate Small Pistol
The case feeder assembly comes with one. You only need one if you need two different sizes.

Dillon's Instructional DVDs for Reloading Machines
Completely unnecessary the 650 is easy to set up. If you have any issues youtube it.

Dillon Primer Flip Tray
Shouldn't you already have a flip tray?

Rapid Polish 290 (8 oz. Bottle)
Try n finish car wax

Dillon Roller Handle (Aluminum)
Some people like them some don't. Not necessary

Good luck in your choice.I have plenty of flip trays . I assumed I needed Dillons primer pickup tubes for their machine. Is that wrong? I will take your advice on the other options. On the CF plate. Will 40 S&W work with small ? I see Dillon says Lg. I've just read a few places the small will work.

Colorado4Wheel
05-07-2011, 07:37
Steve , All I meant is we base are judgement by our experiences. I didn't mean you went into owning an LNL biased. But you sure are now. Same thing goes for your Dillon's. Nothing wrong with that. Sometimes it's difficult to type out what you're trying to say. I meant you no offense

I know, I just thought it was funny.

Colorado4Wheel
05-07-2011, 07:46
I have plenty of flip trays . I assumed I needed Dillons primer pickup tubes for their machine. Is that wrong? I will take your advice on the other options. On the CF plate. Will 40 S&W work with small ? I see Dillon says Lg. I've just read a few places the small will work.

You don't need Dillon primer tubes to load the Dillon Press. Your Hornady will work fine. Dillons are MUCH nicer.

Small case feed plate should work for the .40. It's designed for the large so just keep that in mind.

I don't know why your thinking of getting the 650 if you already own the LnL and are happy with it. Don't let other peoples opinions sway you too much. If you just want the 650 then fine, do it. But if your truly happy with the LnL you can just get the case feeder for the LnL and make any adjustments needed to make it work on your press. LnL is much easier to use as a case feed machine for one caliber and 3 mins later use it as a non-case feed machine for another caliber. If you just got the hankering to try something new then get the 650 for 1 caliber and try it out yourself. Life is too short.

casesensitive
05-07-2011, 08:57
You don't need Dillon primer tubes to load the Dillon Press. Your Hornady will work fine. Dillons are MUCH nicer.

Small case feed plate should work for the .40. It's designed for the large so just keep that in mind.

I don't know why your thinking of getting the 650 if you already own the LnL and are happy with it. Don't let other peoples opinions sway you too much. If you just want the 650 then fine, do it. But if your truly happy with the LnL you can just get the case feeder for the LnL and make any adjustments needed to make it work on your press. LnL is much easier to use as a case feed machine for one caliber and 3 mins later use it as a non-case feed machine for another caliber. If you just got the hankering to try something new then get the 650 for 1 caliber and try it out yourself. Life is too short. My reason for looking at the 650 is time. Right now I am loading just 9mm and 40 s&w. I've been down the 223 road. While fun. Not fun enough to spend the amount of time and money to shoot a Rifle. I've also loaded for 45. At some point I may do so again. Right now my interest lies with the smaller calibers.

My needs are on the order of Boxer's. I want to be able to load as much as I can. In the shortest time possible. If I switch Calibers. I want it to be quick. Although I'm not exactly sure what I need to do it with Dillon. On my LNL there are times when switching calibers, doesn't mean I need to change powder. If I do and have a Dillon. It would be worth it for me to buy the quick change kit. Just for time alone. However Dillon's website doesn't really lend itself to the user. What is the bare minimum I need for a caliber change. What is the most elaborate. A quick change kit doesn't include everything. Does it?

I'm probably being a bit selfish. I really don't need the Dillon. Although to have it set up, where I could load 700 rounds in an hour. Just cranking the handle. That would be awesome. Most likely will buy a bullet feeder. Just not sure whose yet.

The Hornady would probably fit my needs from a pure production standpoint. However with the limited time I currently have. I'd rather spend it loading and shooting. Not fixing quirks. I have 15 years to retirement. My work days are long. I can't come home every night and tinker for an hour or two. Still have a wife house yard and cars to take care of.

If I have a Saturday morning to load. I don't want to spend it fiddling with something I didn't solve from the week before. I will most likely keep the LNL. It's a nice press.

Hopefully this explains why I am asking the questions

shotgunred
05-07-2011, 09:03
I know that BE said that the small feed plate will work with the 40. Well it does most of the time but I have had 3 times were 40 got jammed up in the small shell plate and bound up the case feeder.

casesensitive
05-07-2011, 10:18
I know that BE said that the small feed plate will work with the 40. Well it does most of the time but I have had 3 times were 40 got jammed up in the small shell plate and bound up the case feeder. TY : Nice to know. That that much more money to have both.

Boxerglocker
05-07-2011, 10:21
Once you know what your doing and how the press works. Caliber changes are a casual 10 minutes, cleaning and relubing as you go. I have a quickchange toolhead for .223 but the 9mm get utilized for .380 too. Taking of the powder dump to empty is no biggie.

casesensitive
05-07-2011, 12:33
Once you know what your doing and how the press works. Caliber changes are a casual 10 minutes, cleaning and relubing as you go. I have a quickchange toolhead for .223 but the 9mm get utilized for .380 too. Taking of the powder dump to empty is no biggie. What exactly do I need for a caliber change?

XDRoX
05-07-2011, 13:27
What exactly do I need for a caliber change?

The bare minimum is just dies and a shellplate.

Most prefer to get a separate tool head so the dies stay in it already adjusted.

I prefer to get a whole new tool head with the powder measure. It's the most expensive, but obviously very easy to switch over.

http://members.cox.net/chrismosteller/funnel4.jpg

shotgunred
05-07-2011, 14:45
Or you just be like jack and get a new press for each caliber.

Personalty I just get a tool head and powder funnel for each caliber conversion.

PCJim
05-07-2011, 15:16
What exactly do I need for a caliber change?

A quick review of the Dillon Caliber Conversion charts, which you could do on your own, shows that there are very few carryovers between 9mm and .223, and none between 9mm and 40/10mm:

.223/.222/.221 Remington Conv. - #21101
#A Powder Funnel - #13426
#3 Shellplate - #13345
CF Arm Bushing, Sm Pistol, Green - #13412
CF Body Bushing, Sm - #13513
CF Adapter 17, 223, 222, 221, White - #13575
#3 Station 1 Locator - #13614
#3 Locator Pin(3) - #14060

9mm, .38 Super, 9x21 Conv. - #21109
#F Powder Funnel - #13806
#5 Shellplate - #13509
CF Arm Bushing, Sm Pistol, Green - #13412
CF Body Bushing, Sm - #13513
CF Adapter 9mm, 32ACP, Green - #13450
#5 Station 1 Locator - #13546
#3 Locator Pin(3) - #14060

10mm, .40 S&W Conversion - #21098
#W Powder Funnel - #13600
#W Shellplate - #13310
CF Arm Bushing, Med Pistol, Red - #13403
CF Body Bushing, Med - #13604
CF Adapter 45ACP, 10mm, Red - #13143
CF Adapter 40 S&W, Purple - #18076
#W Station 1 Locator - #13267
#2 Locator Pin(3) - #14062

Case feed disks are not included in the caliber conversion kits.

Colorado4Wheel
05-07-2011, 15:31
My reason for looking at the 650 is time. Right now I am loading just 9mm and 40 s&w. I've been down the 223 road. While fun. Not fun enough to spend the amount of time and money to shoot a Rifle. I've also loaded for 45. At some point I may do so again. Right now my interest lies with the smaller calibers.


htp://www.brianenos.com/dnld/dillon/xl_650-1.pdf
http://www.brianenos.com/dnld/dillon/xl_650-2.pdf
The manual has the cross parts list for each caliber. I would just write the parts down and see if they overlap a lot. I doubt they do. Instructions make everything look hard the first time you do it. It's not so bad once you get the machine. 650 is more complicated and has more parts.


I want it to be quick. Although I'm not exactly sure what I need to do it with Dillon. On my LNL there are times when switching calibers, doesn't mean I need to change powder. If I do and have a Dillon. It would be worth it for me to buy the quick change kit. Just for time alone. However Dillon's website doesn't really lend itself to the user. What is the bare minimum I need for a caliber change. What is the most elaborate. A quick change kit doesn't include everything. Does it?



You know I am new to the 650 so keep that in mind. Shellplate is easy to change. From 9mm to .40 you donít do anything for the primers because they are both SP. You need to convert several parts in the casefeeder. That isnít hard. Switching out the casefeeder plate is also easy. So after that you just swap the toolhead. I prefer the toolhead to the LnL bushings. Itís easier. Also, the Dillon powder die is much nicer then the LnL setup. You set the powder die to the right height and never touch it again. To swap powder measure from one toolhead to the next is simple. If you get the Unique Tek micrometer you can dial in the measure for each caliber very fast.
I would get the caliber conversion, toolhead, Powder die. I donít think a separate powder measure is worth it UNLESS you swap a lot and use a different powder in each caliber. Even then I like the micrometer and donít mind dumping powder.


I'm probably being a bit selfish. I really don't need the Dillon. Although to have it set up, where I could load 700 rounds in an hour. Just cranking the handle. That would be awesome. Most likely will buy a bullet feeder. Just not sure whose yet.


Selfish is good sometimes. Get me something if your in the mood.

BEST bullet feeder is probably the Mr. Bullet Feeder . I know it looks odd but it gets the most consistent positive feedback. Lizard has one on order.

shotgunred
05-07-2011, 15:37
The 40 shell plate works just fine for the 9mm. What can I tell you. It worked in the 550 and I am basically lazy.:tongueout:

Boxerglocker
05-07-2011, 16:35
What exactly do I need for a caliber change?


The bare minimum is just dies and a shellplate.

Most prefer to get a separate tool head so the dies stay in it already adjusted.

I prefer to get a whole new tool head with the powder measure. It's the most expensive, but obviously very easy to switch over.




In addition for the XL650 a complete caliber change kit, or parts there of depending on caliber your going from and changing to. Possible a case feeder plate as well.

Colorado4Wheel
05-07-2011, 16:41
The 40 shell plate works just fine for the 9mm. What can I tell you. It worked in the 550 and I am basically lazy.:tongueout:

My 650 shellplate will accept a 10mm case but I don't know how well it would work with the slider. It's pretty tight going in. Not sure if the 9mm will fit in the 650 .40 shellplate.