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ColCol
04-23-2011, 14:30
Anyone have bad luck with current Lyman molds? I've tried two of their #358429 molds for 357 and they both give bullets too small for even considering sizing. Most fall from the mold at .355-.357" at best. That's too small for 38 cal bullets. I called them and they agreed to either replace it or fix it. We'll see if that happens. They also are lighter weight that specified. This is a 170 gr mold and they averaged 160 gr from a BHN 9.8 mix. If anything they shoiuld have weighed more since Lyman "cuts" they molds for the Lyman #2 alloy.

I've never had problems with their older molds from the 70's early 80's in 44 and 45 but these current 38 caliber molds really suck. Nobody seems to care about quality anymore from refrigerators to clothes. My drawers even were made in Vietnam!!

WiskyT
04-23-2011, 14:37
I only own one Lyman mold. It's a 358477 two cavity I bought new about two years ago. It casts fine and I've had no problems with it. It's a 150 grain SWC that casts at 155 with my cheap scrap lead so that seems about right. I have to size them or they won't fit in my Rugers, so they are about 0.360" or so from the mold.

The thing I don't like about it is it has different profile than the classic 358477 and it is different than the website, which shows the old style. The body of it is "normal", but the nose is a rounded off flatpoint instead of having a squared off metplat like SWC is supposed to have. It has the traditional driving bands and shoulder, but the nose is rounded off. It shoots great, but it looks kind of ghey. It's not like I'm hunting cape buffalo with it, but it should have the right nose on it and they should have represented it better on their website.

fredj338
04-23-2011, 14:47
Many guys are complaining about the Lyman mold quality now days. I just bought a new 458HP mold for my 45-70. We'll see, it looks great though! I have no issues w/ my older Lyman molds.

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 15:28
I've add three new Lymans in the last couple of years and really haven't noticed much difference from my moulds that are almost 50 years old. Actually the only problem I've had is half of the head on the sprue plate screw snapped off while I was tightening it. Lyman replaced the screw with a phone call. In the interim I simply used the screw from a different mould.

Brinell hardness tells very little as to how a cavity will fill out since most of the actual hardness is derived from antimony which does little, if anything to fill out the mould. Tin is actually the component in the alloy that alloys the alloy to flow freely and completely fill the cavity. Since antimony accounts for three times the hardness of tin the Brinell scale really doesn't do much when determining if the mould actual throws undersized bullets.

You didn't mention your source of alloy but if it's WW's then you're throwing lighter than would be expected, WW's are normally in the 11 to 12 range. Not a great difference but it could be an indication that the alloy is not being fluxed properly which will ultimately result in a higher concentration of lead at the bottom of the pot with the tin and antimony floating higher in the mixture. This will lead to a softer Brinell and incomplete fill out.

In the event that one does indeed get an iron mould that drops undersized bullets it is a very simple matter to open the cavities as large as need requires... certainly much, much quicker than returning the mould.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-23-2011, 15:32
I have bought MANY A MOLD in the last couple years. Recently I bought two 147gr lyman 9mm bolds and both are perfect.

To me it sounds like you have a fill out problem.

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 15:35
I have bought MANY A MOLD in the last couple years. Recently I bought two 147gr lyman 9mm bolds and both are perfect.

To me it sounds like you have a fill out problem.


Buying many moulds and returning them all doesn't count as experience. :whistling:


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-23-2011, 15:42
I kept all the Lyman. So that does count for something.

StaTiK
04-23-2011, 15:45
Buying many moulds and returning them all doesn't count as experience. :whistling:


Jack

Tough crowd. The man rids himself of two of the most highly rated progressives of all time and suddenly everything says is questioned :whistling:

-StaTiK-

labdwakin
04-23-2011, 15:58
Tough crowd. The man rids himself of two of the most highly rated progressives of all time and suddenly everything says is questioned :whistling:

-StaTiK-

Steve is just a perfectionist... doesn't make him any less likable. Just means he likes things a certain way. :whistling:

hoffy
04-23-2011, 15:58
My Lymans all run fine, but are also decades old, well I bought a 4 cavity 45 acp one a few years ago that looked pretty new, but no idea how old. I cherish the Hensley&Gibbs multi cavity moulds, drop the best of all of mine........ Good luck. It does seem if they are running their cherries too long they would be getting worn too small.......

StaTiK
04-23-2011, 17:41
Steve is just a perfectionist

Hey nothing wrong with that. Especially in this hobby.

-StaTiK-

ColCol
04-23-2011, 18:19
Jack-the alloy I used was a mix of 50/50 lead and Linotype to a certain amount of pure lead. there's tin and antimony in that mix and the bullet should have filled out to as stated diameter by Lyman...it didn't. No 358 mold should drop .355-.356 bullets regardless the alloy. Check out the unsatisfied customers at CastBoolits and you'll find more than one who have had the same experience as me with current Lyman molds.

The customer shouldn't have to "beagle" or alter in some other fashion what should have been done properly in the first place by a one time first class outfit. The old molds I have from them are flawless and yield the stated proper diameter, regardless of whether I use a 10:1 mix or use the equivalent of Lyman #2 alloy. This 358429 mold will never yield the proper diameter undless it's opened up by some means. It's too small and gives too light a bullet that stated in their literature. I'll give them 5% on the weight but a 170 grain bullet mold that gives a 160 grain bullet is not 5%. I think that mold wasn't opened enough and that's why it's too small and the bullet too light.

BTW-how is it a simple matter to open the cavity? I've never tried that before.

Three-Five-Seven
04-23-2011, 18:22
Oval bullets go out the other end just as well as cylindrical ones. They don't hit the target, but they go out the end of the barrel.

Patrick Graham
04-23-2011, 18:31
My newest Lyman mold is a 4 year old 4 cavity mold, works great.

All my other Lyman molds are 5 years or older, they work great too.

Having said that, RCBS makes a better mold.

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 19:05
Jack-the alloy I used was a mix of 50/50 lead and Linotype to a certain amount of pure lead. there's tin and antimony in that mix and the bullet should have filled out to as stated diameter by Lyman...it didn't. No 358 mold should drop .355-.356 bullets regardless the alloy. Check out the unsatisfied customers at CastBoolits and you'll find more than one who have had the same experience as me with current Lyman molds.

The customer shouldn't have to "beagle" or alter in some other fashion what should have been done properly in the first place by a one time first class outfit. The old molds I have from them are flawless and yield the stated proper diameter, regardless of whether I use a 10:1 mix or use the equivalent of Lyman #2 alloy. This 358429 mold will never yield the proper diameter undless it's opened up by some means. It's too small and gives too light a bullet that stated in their literature. I'll give them 5% on the weight but a 170 grain bullet mold that gives a 160 grain bullet is not 5%. I think that mold wasn't opened enough and that's why it's too small and the bullet too light.

BTW-how is it a simple matter to open the cavity? I've never tried that before.


Elijah:

It's really pretty simple on iron moulds... I've never done it on brass or aluminum but I would assume it would work.

Heat your alloy and your mould as you normally would, cast enough bullets that you're getting perfectly smooth drops, no wrinkles, doesn't matter if they're frosted but you shouldn't have to cast enough of them for the mould to get that hot.

If you're using a 4 cavity mould pick out the best 12. With a small drill bit drill a hole as close to center in the base of three bullets as you can get. Screw in a small socket head screw. With your mould closed tight measure the diameter of the cavity with your calipers, this will give you a base measurement to gauge your work by. With one bullet coat it with very fine valve lapping compound. Place the bullet in the first cavity and close the mould, hold tightly closed with one hand, (makes it easier if you remove the sprue plate).

Place the socket on the screw and start turning slowly. (The socket head makes it much easier than a flat or phillips head screw, they tend to slip.)

Depending on how much you want to open the cavity will dictate how many total turns you'll need to make. Make 3 or 4 turns remove the bullet, clean the cavity with alcohol and remeasure. That will give you an idea of how many turns it going to take to achieve the desired result. There's a bit of difference in the iron between each mould and different brands of lapping compound cut at different rates so there's no hard fast rule of how many turns it will take per thousandths.

When you notice that the bullet is no longer cutting metal change to your next bullet. Clean the cavity each time before you measure. When you've done all of the cavities reheat the mould, drop a decent quantity of bullets and then measure a couple bullets from each cavity.

That's it, you're done. Going a little bigger than you intend is not that big of a deal since you're going to be sizing them anyway. If you work with the delicacy of a bull in a china shop and make them way too big it's no big deal to step size 'em. As an example if you're aiming for .359 and somehow end up with .404 you'll deform the bullet trying to size it down in one stroke, simply use a .400 die and then a .358 die to get to your desired finished size.

It's unlikely you'll actually end up with cavities that are too big... I never have and I'm an idiot.

Good luck, it's no big deal and an easy way to end up with bullets exactly the size you need.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-23-2011, 20:05
Jack-the alloy I used was a mix of 50/50 lead and Linotype to a certain amount of pure lead. there's tin and antimony in that mix and the bullet should have filled out to as stated diameter by Lyman...it didn't. No 358 mold should drop .355-.356 bullets regardless the alloy. Check out the unsatisfied customers at CastBoolits and you'll find more than one who have had the same experience as me with current Lyman molds.

The customer shouldn't have to "beagle" or alter in some other fashion what should have been done properly in the first place by a one time first class outfit. The old molds I have from them are flawless and yield the stated proper diameter, regardless of whether I use a 10:1 mix or use the equivalent of Lyman #2 alloy. This 358429 mold will never yield the proper diameter undless it's opened up by some means. It's too small and gives too light a bullet that stated in their literature. I'll give them 5% on the weight but a 170 grain bullet mold that gives a 160 grain bullet is not 5%. I think that mold wasn't opened enough and that's why it's too small and the bullet too light.

BTW-how is it a simple matter to open the cavity? I've never tried that before.

Call them. They will send another one. No big deal.

What temp are you casting at?

ColCol
04-23-2011, 20:54
That "fine valve grinding compound" is something you can pick up at your local automotive dealer? It must be pretty rough to open up cast iron with only a few turns of the ratchet. sounds like it's worth a try since I have two molds alike. I'll need to open this one up about .005" to give me the .360" bullet I want and size to .358.

Colorado-I did call them and they said they would either repair/replace it but I've heard mixed stories about how much good that does. Several have told me they got back the mold and it still was dropping too small a bullet. My casting temps are usually around 700 on average...plus or minus 25 degrees-most in the plus.

GioaJack
04-23-2011, 21:45
Elijah, you can get compound at any decent auto parts store, NAPA, AutoZone, PepBoys, etc. They usually come in small tubes, two to a pack, one fine and one medium. They're under five bucks.

Because of the variations in compound and iron I start with very few turns they measure just to see how hard or easy it's cutting. Usually I'm just trying to open up a cavity a thousandth or so... don't want to be too aggressive until I see what's going on. I've never really had two moulds that cut exactly the same way and I've done a bunch of 'em. I've certainly never opened one as far as what you're describing but it works the same way, will just take longer and you'll probably have to use thicker coatings of compound.

If you get to a point that the cavities have opened but not as far as you need and won't open up further simply heat up the mould, cast some good bullets and continue lapping with the bigger size bullets. You can do 4 cavities in less than an hour, a lot less if the cavities are already close.


Jack

dudel
04-24-2011, 06:04
The customer shouldn't have to "beagle" or alter in some other fashion what should have been done properly in the first place by a one time first class outfit.
BTW-how is it a simple matter to open the cavity? I've never tried that before.


I believe you can only "beagle" the Lee aluminum moulds. You'd have a hard time "beagling" a cast iron mould.

Everytime I've been on the fence considering a Lyman, I hear about QC issues. For me, the Lees have worked fine. Fortunately, the have the profiles I want the cast.

Colorado4Wheel
04-24-2011, 08:50
That "fine valve grinding compound" is something you can pick up at your local automotive dealer? It must be pretty rough to open up cast iron with only a few turns of the ratchet. sounds like it's worth a try since I have two molds alike. I'll need to open this one up about .005" to give me the .360" bullet I want and size to .358.

Colorado-I did call them and they said they would either repair/replace it but I've heard mixed stories about how much good that does. Several have told me they got back the mold and it still was dropping too small a bullet. My casting temps are usually around 700 on average...plus or minus 25 degrees-most in the plus.

Get the heat up to 775 and try again. No way my mold works at 675 with that type of lead.

ColCol
04-24-2011, 10:10
Since I have two of these tings I think I'll try lapping one. the other goes to Lyman and having gotten over Lyman's nonchalant attitude toward their customers I ordered a mold similar to this one but at my specs from Mountain Molds. You get to draw your own design and this one will have the Keith profile with three equal width bands and a good grease groove. Yeah, it cost a bit more than a Lyman but I specified the as cast diameter and what alloy's I'd be using and the weight I need so don't think I can go wrong with that. It's only money and I have no one to leave mine to so....

Colorado-I did try again and did as you mentioned at 725+ and it's still too small. I don't' think you'll wring 004-.005" from that mold if you cast with Linotype and 900 degrees.

BTW-I cast about 200 44 caliber full WC's for a friend this morning using WW with no tin as he wanted. All came out .432". That was from an old 1970's Lyman mold. BHN 9.4 was how soft they were.

GioaJack
04-24-2011, 10:34
Elijah, I'm assuming your buddy wanted no additional tin added to the alloy since wheel weights al ready contain approximately 3% tin, approximately 5% antimony, a very small percentage of arsenic, (alloy has to have arsenic in it to water quench bullets), a very small percentage of various others metals and the rest lead.

I can't even imagine running an alloy at 775 degrees, there simply isn't any need to run that hot. Since lead alloy melts at 631 degrees you can drop perfect bullets between 680 and 700 degrees all day long without over heating your moulds. This of course requires a pot that will hold a constant temperature within a few degrees. (I don't use aluminum moulds so I have no idea what temperatures they need to run at.)

If using WW's and casting, or smelting at 775 degrees you'd never stand a chance of recognizing zinc WW's that might have snuck through your inspection and will certainly contaminate your alloy. Maintaining a casting temp of roughly 700 degrees pretty much negates this eventuality since zinc melts at approximately 100 to 110 degrees higher than lead.

I suppose I'll experiment with it at some point just for grins and giggles but right now I have no idea if zinc will inhibit the cavity fill out properties of a proper alloy.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-24-2011, 10:41
I normally cast at 725. But, if the mold is not properly heated the lead needs to be hotter. I recommended 775 ish just to see if that solved his problem. It's worth a try. I have seen lots of post from people saying they use high temps with their Lyman Molds. Not sure if they are running 4 cavity or what.

I don't worry about zinc because I smelt out of my casting pot not in my casting pot. Plus, I don't even use WW much at all, mostly range scrap with a little ingot of WW added every 20 lbs or so. I am buying some Linotype to avoid even needing WW at all in the future.

ColCol
04-24-2011, 10:59
Jack-this fellow cleaned his ingots up before sending them to me so I assumed there was no zinc in them. I use sawdust as a flux and still cleaned it up before casting-just my habit regardless. those big 245-250 WC's need a little heat to fill out the bands properly on 44's. He didn't request more tin.

As for the Lyman 358 mold, after getting those small bullets you'll try anything, which I did. The 650 degrees I started out with wasn't getting it so I cranked up the heat a little all to no avail. As I mentioned, no amount of heat or alloy will fix that mold. At an average of .355" you're not gong to bump it up to .359-.360" as cast regardless without doing the lapping you recommended or sending it back.

I'm fortunate enough to still have around 50 pounds of straight Linotype and also about that amount in a 50/50 mix of lead and Linotype plus about 75 pounds of pure? lead that checks out at BHN 6.2-7.5. Plus for the hell of it, I ordered some pure tin from RotoMetals to try Elmer's old mix of 16:1 lead to tin to see how they shoot in the M29. I've been wanting to try that for some time and decided now was the time.

BTW-I thought zinc didn't melt till it got way hotter than most pots will go...around 1200 degrees? So it'll float to the top. Here's a pic of those 44 WC's.
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x220/ColColt/Misc%20Stuff/_DEF3960a.jpg

fredj338
04-24-2011, 11:05
Oval bullets go out the other end just as well as cylindrical ones. They don't hit the target, but they go out the end of the barrel.

One reason to size them, slightly out of round can be made round in the luber/sizer.

fredj338
04-24-2011, 11:07
Since I have two of these tings I think I'll try lapping one. the other goes to Lyman and having gotten over Lyman's nonchalant attitude toward their customers I ordered a mold similar to this one but at my specs from Mountain Molds. You get to draw your own design and this one will have the Keith profile with three equal width bands and a good grease groove. Yeah, it cost a bit more than a Lyman but I specified the as cast diameter and what alloy's I'd be using and the weight I need so don't think I can go wrong with that. It's only money and I have no one to leave mine to so....

Colorado-I did try again and did as you mentioned at 725+ and it's still too small. I don't' think you'll wring 004-.005" from that mold if you cast with Linotype and 900 degrees.

BTW-I cast about 200 44 caliber full WC's for a friend this morning using WW with no tin as he wanted. All came out .432". That was from an old 1970's Lyman mold. BHN 9.4 was how soft they were.
Casting hotter can actually make the bullets slightly smaller as there is more shrinkage as they cool.

GioaJack
04-24-2011, 11:10
Rarely will you have problems with range lead, so much so that for many pistol applications you can pretty much get away with using it straight. That's all I used growing up in Florida, as a matter of fact I never used wheel weights until I moved to Colorado where I didn't have access to unlimited range lead.

With the popularity of higher velocities I can see where range lead might need to be slightly hardened with either WW's or a very small percentage of linotype. The availability of lino used to be pretty simple, drive up to a printing shop and they'd give you all of it you could haul away. Since printing companies have pretty much gone the way of the dinosaur I would think that WW's might be a more financially viable option. I don't know since I don't even bother with lino any more.

The 9's I loaded up last week for the STI chrono'd at right around 1180 and after 300 rounds the barrel was powder fouled, not leaded and that was with straight WW's with high temp lube. I really can't see myself pushing anything much faster than that... I simply don't have the need.


Jack

fredj338
04-24-2011, 11:12
BTW-I thought zinc didn't melt till it got way hotter than most pots will go...around 1200 degrees? So it'll float to the top. Here's a pic of those 44 WC's.
]

Nope, zinc will melt around the 750-775deg mark. It's one reason I smelt separately of my casting pot, plus it keeps my Lee 20# form dripping like so many complain about. Most alloys will cast fine around 700deg, slightly more for more lead, slightly less for more tin. The mold mat'l. also indicates the casting temp. Alum molds heat fast & cool fast, iron heat slow but hold the heat well. It's a touchy feely thing, no real rules. Your tempo casting has a lot to do with it.

ColCol
04-24-2011, 11:29
I remember many moons ago when I use to cast those big heavy(510 gr) mini balls with the hollow base, you had to get that mold really hot or you'd be casting for hours trying to get one good one. The cherry that fit in the bottom to form the hollow cavity had to be as hot as the old or you'd have wrinkled skirts. It was a real PITA and after casting probably 500 over time, I decided my headaches would go away if I just bought them, which I later did. Pure lead takes a lot more heat than a Lyman #2 alloy and that's what those required being shot in a Zouave musket. You wouldn't cast those big babies at 650 or 700 degrees or you'd be casting for a good bullet till dooms day.

I haven't done any smelting and probably won't-wheel weights just ain't my bag. I have a five gallon bucket nearly full I got at a local tire dealer but after sifting through maybe 30 pounds, I only had enough to make about half that amount or less of pure lead ones. Most were marked Fe or were steel. that's a lot of wasted time looking through a bucket for lead weight. they're not making clip ons like they use to and if yo do find mostly lead ones you can't be sure of it's purity and content.

GioaJack
04-24-2011, 11:45
Elijah:

No, zinc melts just slightly higher than lead, around 100 degrees or so, that's why it's so easy to contaminate your alloy. I'm convinced it's the Devil's spawn. We can blame it all on those damn California people.

I've never really understood the fascination with an abnormally high tin content in an alloy other than they make bullets look really, really cool. Tin will harden the alloy but it takes three times as much tin as it does antimony so what's the point? I'm the last person to contradict Keith, he's been dead a long, long time and still knows more than I do right now but after experimenting with this stuff for decades I've just never seen the benefit of the high tin content. Now, other than casting for low velocity 30-06, 30 carbine and very low velocity .223 rounds I really don't have any experience with rifle rounds up in the 2500-3000 fps applications so maybe it makes a big difference up there. I just don't know.

I do know, without question that straight WW's will produce bullets that perform perfectly with velocities up around the 1100 to 1200 fps range. Obviously this requires that the bullets are correctly sized for the particular bore, the alloy has been fluxed properly and kept fluxed, quality lube, etc.

I agree with you that the size your mould is dropping bullets presents a great problem and at that size I can't imagine you'd every get any accuracy better than a shotgun pattern, assuming that you could keep shooting long enough before the barrel welded itself shut from leading. You could lap it out but I don't think it would be worth the effort, even if your life expectance is that long. It's one thing to open a mould a couple thousandths, it's another thing to begin a journey of a thousand miles.

I am a bit confused about one thing and that is how the term beagling has been used. My experience has been that beagling is accomplished in the sizer, not in the mould. Perhaps this is a technique I'm not familiar with or perhaps it's just a matter of regional vocabulary disparity... sort of like 'you all' and 'ya'll'. :supergrin:

The bullets in your photo look fine, very good in fact. It's hard to tell from a photo because of lighting but it looks like they may be a bit frosted which doesn't hurt anything. If however bullets are too frosted it's a sign of way too much heat and they will tend to cool a bit smaller than you intend.

I've never dropped a double flat base WC but I imagine it would make a hell of a bullseye load. You can't make a cleaner hole in paper than that and for bullseye there's really no reason to waste the extra lead with a SWC design. Probably would work pretty well on small game too but I don't hunt so I'm certainly not qualified to give an opinion. I do know what it'll do to two legged game however... I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end.


Jack

ColCol
04-24-2011, 13:02
Well,l I learned something today about zinc. Maybe it's antimony I had in my head and not zinc. At any rate, I most likely won't be dong much smelting as i don't have a "turkey" fryer or have easy access to the gas to fire it up. I got tired of looking through all those WW's just to find some that were lead. Other than side cutters or scratching them, or attempting to, with your thumbnail. There just wasn't that much lead in that bucket considering all the iron and steel ones. Now, I'd buy ingots of WW's but wouldn't fool with the lookin' and siftin' part. Enough time is spent on casting and reloading.

A pound of tin with 16 pounds of lead is a lot of tin and at it's cost these days I probably wont cast many. I just wanted to give it a try. Lots of folks cast with 20:1 I'm told or even 10:1 but, that's still a pound of tin at $18-22 per pound...expensive casting. All in all you probably don't need more than about 2-3% tin to make a good alloy but tin was readily available and cheaper in Elmer's days. Remember, that's the alloy he used to bring about the 44 Magnum.(16:1)

Beagling is a term I learned over at CastBoolits forum. I'm still not sure what it entails but apparently you use some sort of tape inside the mold-not the cavities to made it a bit larger to compensate for the smaller bullets it heretofore was casting. Not really my cup of tea. Let's hound these manufacturers and make them get it right in the first place.

Those WC's are a bit frosty but I had to do it to get the bands to fill out. That's a big chunk of lead...like a hammer and with it that soft would probably make a decent SD load as well as target load. I wouldn't want to get hit with it.

GioaJack
04-24-2011, 13:26
I've heard of guys trying to put tape and other materials on the mould face in an effort to pour bigger bullets but I don't see how you'd avoid getting 'fins'. I guess they know how to make it work. The term 'beagling' used in that context is new to me but I guess it can be used with any method when trying to make a cast bullet bigger.

I've only used it, and heard of it used in the context of increasing the bullet's diameter while in a sizing die. I've never figured out how to do it in a Star sizer but in a Lyman style it's pretty easy however there are size limitations.

If you start with a moderately undersized bullet you run it down into the proper sized Lyman style die and apply pressure by 'bumping' the bullet until it takes on the dimension of the die.

The alloy has to be relatively soft so the bullet can expand. Trying to do it with a bullet of high Brinell hardness will just end up bending the handle of the sizer.

About the only time you really want to consider doing it is if you have one gun that has a bore slightly larger than the rest of your guns of like caliber and you only need a relatively small number of bullets. Other than that it's a lot easier to open your mould a thousandths or two.

Oh, almost forgot. If you don't smelt, (I don't never have and never will), the easiest way to separate zinc and steel weights from lead is to start your furnace at 650 degrees and dump in handfuls of weights. The lead will totally melt but the zinc and steel will remain floating on the top. Flux thoroughly and remove the still perfectly formed weights. (They will still be perfect, so much so that you could put 'em back on a wheel.)

Keep repeating the process until you have a full pot of usable alloy then turn your furnace up to 680 to 700 degrees. Wait a few minutes till it gets to temperature, lift your handle to insure you have good bottom flow and assuming you had your mould sitting on top of the furnace you're ready to start casting.

Much easier than trying to check each weight and you're insured of a non-contaminated alloy.


Jack

WiskyT
04-24-2011, 13:52
One reason to size them, slightly out of round can be made round in the luber/sizer.

They are made round by the barrel in the same way a sizer makes them round.

WiskyT
04-24-2011, 13:55
Elijah:

My first thought was that possibly you were an inexperienced caster and did not have things up to temp. If the bullets weren't filled out properly they would be too small.

Having read your posts, and seen the pics of the good 44 bullets, I see you have extensive experience and know what you are doing. Those new molds just are not made properly. I'd send them back instead of screwing around with them or wasting any more time. It seems like that's what you already decided to do, so I'm just confirming your decisions.

dudel
04-24-2011, 16:47
They are made round by the barrel in the same way a sizer makes them round.

Also made round by the FCD :whistling:

Some even say they get sized as well. :supergrin:

WiskyT
04-24-2011, 16:51
Also made round by the FCD :whistling:

Some even say they get sized as well. :supergrin:

:quiet:

.....

ColCol
04-24-2011, 18:09
Whisky-Yep, I've been casting off and on since 1972 when I had no choice since I was shooting with the North-South skirmish Association and was using a 58 cal Zouave with thumb size mini balls(a misnomer as their conical shaped with a hollow base). They were expensive to buy so, I got a mold from Lyman...still have it by the way. It was a real PITA to cast for, however, as you had to use pure lead. Until recently I hadn't cast in about 30 years so, I'm having to make a comeback, sort of. You can forget a lot in 30 years and ideas, alloys and molds have changed a lot since then.

ColCol
04-24-2011, 19:33
Speaking of "beagling"...

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=114153

StaTiK
04-25-2011, 08:02
... was using a 58 cal Zouave with thumb size mini balls(a misnomer as their conical shaped with a hollow base).

Just a bit of OT history, it was technically named Miniť ball (pronounced "Min-ay" I believe) after the French inventor. This was later Americanized and morphed into the "mini ball" even though it was a 1" long conical bullet neither mini nor spherical.

I'm betting that you knew this though since civil war actors are often history buffs themselves.

-StaTiK-

WiskyT
04-25-2011, 16:59
Just a bit of OT history, it was technically named Miniť ball (pronounced "Min-ay" I believe) after the French inventor. This was later Americanized and morphed into the "mini ball" even though it was a 1" long conical bullet neither mini nor spherical.

I'm betting that you knew this though since civil war actors are often history buffs themselves.

-StaTiK-

It's a little no fact Normie...

http://www.bullz-eye.com/television/features/2008/images/punching_bags/cliff_clavin.jpg

ColCol
05-13-2011, 19:16
OK-back to the beagling a mold. My trusty M29-3 has a groove diameter of .429"...pretty much SAAMI specs. Unfortunately, the throat diameter of all cylinders is .432". My old 429421 mold won't drop bullets that large so tomorrow I'm going to "beagle" it with two pieces of .004" tape on opposite sides of of half of the mold and see how it goes. Lots of folks use thkis method and don't seem to have any problem with fins on the bullet but I guess some poor souls do.

One area of problem lies in the fact that no one makes a .432" size die. Lyman, Lee and RCBS's largest size die for 44 caliber is .431". so, I'm either going to have to get someone to make me one or attempt to enlarge it myself by various methods including but not limited to coating a hard bullet(lead) with some valve grinding compound and working it in and out of the die with the hopes of increasing it a couple thousands of an inch.

ATTN:S&W-You could have made those throats .001" over groove diameter and it would have been perfect. But , no-you had to give me a PITA by increasing it .003" and have caused me grief. Henceforth, you are out of my will.

Colorado4Wheel
05-13-2011, 19:33
Lathsmith over at castboolits makes custom sizes I think. At least for a Star.

ColCol
05-13-2011, 20:45
Thanks-I'll PM him.