Advice on .30 carbine handloads [Archive] - Glock Talk

PDA

View Full Version : Advice on .30 carbine handloads


Big Bore Fan
04-25-2011, 08:23
I got all my supplies on fri. to start loading for my carbine and went out this morning to set it all up. All the brass was sized and trimmed to 1.280. I belled the mouth to about .331 O.D wich is enough to get a bullet just barley in the mouth. I have some factory Rem. and Aguila ammo that I measured the mouth on to use as a guide for the bell and crimp. Both factory loads are .329-.330 at the mouth so I went with .331 for my bell and .330 for crimp. The bullets are seated at 1.280. Now here is the problem. I used basically the same procedure when I was setting up for .45 ACP and everything works fine. My neighbor told me to check the crimp to make sure the bullet doesn't set back when chambering the .45 buy putting the round in the mag. and letting the slide go into battery, then measure to see if there was any set back. This worked for the .45 but is not for the carbine. The COAL actually grows about .001-.003 inches. The factory rounds will not change COAL even though the mouths measure the same on them and my handloades. Any advice? Is it even worth worrying about?

Hoser
04-25-2011, 09:21
Just a touch more crimp should fix it.

Big Bore Fan
04-25-2011, 09:30
Thats what I thought, but when I took it down to .328 It still does the same thing. I pulled the bullet out with a kinetic hammer and it took a good 6-9 hits for it to come out and I could see a slight ring on the copper jacket where the crimp was. :dunno:

njl
04-25-2011, 18:48
I got all my supplies on fri. to start loading for my carbine and went out this morning to set it all up. All the brass was sized and trimmed to 1.280. I belled the mouth to about .331 O.D wich is enough to get a bullet just barley in the mouth. I have some factory Rem. and Aguila ammo that I measured the mouth on to use as a guide for the bell and crimp. Both factory loads are .329-.330 at the mouth so I went with .331 for my bell and .330 for crimp. The bullets are seated at 1.280. Now here is the problem. I used basically the same procedure when I was setting up for .45 ACP and everything works fine. My neighbor told me to check the crimp to make sure the bullet doesn't set back when chambering the .45 buy putting the round in the mag. and letting the slide go into battery, then measure to see if there was any set back. This worked for the .45 but is not for the carbine. The COAL actually grows about .001-.003 inches. The factory rounds will not change COAL even though the mouths measure the same on them and my handloades. Any advice? Is it even worth worrying about?

You've got the same typo/thinko I had when I posted about my first .30 carbine reloads. You trimmed to 1.280", so your bullets can't possibly be seated to 1.280". You probably seated them to 1.680" (as did I). But you're saying that after chambering your reloads (and removing them from the chamber), they've grown in length? Usually, if you were having a neck tension issue, they'd push into the brass further and the COAL would shrink. If they're growing, is it possible they're too long, hitting the rifling, and extraction is causing the rifling to pull the bullets out of the brass by a few thousandths of an inch?

Who's seating die are you using? Are you sure that you're getting consistent COAL? With the Remington JSP bullets I'm using and Lee seating die, I don't get very consistent OAL and have had to load some of them shorter than desired in order to avoid some of them going as much as a hundredth longer than desired.

If your crimp is putting a ring on the jacket, I think you have too much crimp.

Big Bore Fan
04-25-2011, 19:14
Ok I went out and crimped down to .323 just to see of it changed anything. 1. The bullet still will move out of the case a little about .0005, I think that's right it's the little 5 after .000. 2. It took about 13 good whacks with the puller, bullet still has slight ring from crimp and some scratches on the jacket from being pulled. 3. Even at .323 the round still chambers the same as the factory ammo. So then I decided I would pull a bullet from one of the Rem. rounds and one from the Aguila. The Aguila took about 13 good hits and the bullet looked just like my dummy round with the ring and scratches. The Rem. round is another story. I did 40 whacks and the bullet never budged. So then I did 20 really hard hits so hard I thought I would break the hammer. Still nothing, not even a smidgen.:headscratch: I almost just loaded some up to try but I don't want to ruin my new to me USGI carbine, I really don't want to ruin me eather.:whistling:

Big Bore Fan
04-25-2011, 19:24
You've got the same typo/thinko I had when I posted about my first .30 carbine reloads. You trimmed to 1.280", so your bullets can't possibly be seated to 1.280". You probably seated them to 1.680" (as did I).

Who's seating die are you using? Are you sure that you're getting consistent COAL? With the Remington JSP bullets I'm using and Lee seating die, I don't get very consistent OAL and have had to load some of them shorter than desired in order to avoid some of them going as much as a hundredth longer than desired.

If your crimp is putting a ring on the jacket, I think you have too much crimp.

:embarassed: Oops, yes 1.680

All my dies are Lee. I loaded 3 dummys and thay are within .001 of each other.

So maybe I should try a dummy at 1.670? Shouldn't the bullet have marks from the rifling? I havent looked closley at the point of the bullet.

njl
04-25-2011, 20:03
Have you measured some of your factory carbine ammo COAL? I know CMP says to load to 1.680", but the commercial ammo I have is generally shorter, IIRC as short as 1.660".

I'm no expert on reloading, but I can't think of anything that would cause a round to grow in length just from chambering unless the rifling was grabbing the bullet and pulling on it during extraction. If you're hitting the rifling hard enough for that to happen, you're loading too long. If you lock the bolt open and drop a round into the chamber, does it appear to go all the way in? If you press it in will gravity cause it to fall out if you point the muzzle up?

Big Bore Fan
04-25-2011, 20:44
I measured the two types of factory ammo I have and yes they both are shorter than 1.680. I don't remember off hand what they are. I dropped one of each into the chamber and they all looked to be the same, but if it's just a few thousands of an inch I may not have noticed by just looking at it. Tomorrow I will push them into the chamber with my finger and see if they will fall out. I'll also load one shorter and see how that goes.
Thanks for your help:wavey:

I couldn't wait and I'm off till fri. so I went and got the measurements.
Rem./ 1.650-1.655
Aguila/ 1.672-1.675

I also tried to push the dummy I loaded to 1.680 in to the chamber with my finger, it fell out when I tipped the barrel up.

Big Bore Fan
04-26-2011, 18:53
Well I loaded one at 1.670 today with the same results. The only time I can load one and not have the COAL change is if I pull a bullet from a factory round and put one of my SP back in it. (without powder) I am pulling my hair out over this. I did load up 15 rounds with three different charge weights today just to see what would happen. The ones that went bang did good. About 5 of them had a light primer strike and would not go bang with a second try ether. This happened once the other day with the Augila ammo so I went and got the remainder of that box to shoot. About eight out of fifteen did not light on the first try and 4 did not light on the second. I think I may be taking a trip to the gunsmith for this problem.:crying:

njl
04-26-2011, 19:00
And you're sure they're getting longer, not shorter after chambering? I've had one or two light strikes with my reloads (Aguila once fired brass, CCI SRMag primers), but I've attributed them to not quite fully seated primers, and these have always gone bang on the second try.

I wonder if your carbine has a headspace problem?

Big Bore Fan
04-26-2011, 19:40
Yea there gettin longer. Not by much, about .001 each time it's chambered.

After all the light strikes I was thinking headspace also. It's weird though, I always thought headspace problems would cause inaccuracy. Off hand at 25 yards all 15 rounds of factory Rem. will go into a 5 in circle. Oh, the factory Rem. all fired without problems, 50 rounds. I checked the cases for headspace signs but did not see any. The bolt looks as though it is locking ok to.

I did take a fired and resized case that measured 1.30 and loaded a bullet at 1.681 and it chambered ok. It maybe headspace. I'm going to call a gunsmith tomorrow and see what he has to say.:faint: