Need Ergo Handle for LnL AP, & What's up with The High Road [Archive] - Glock Talk

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PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 00:50
Keeps crashing everytime I try to go there to look for the only guy I've seen do a serious handle mod for the LnL AP. Did somebody forget to pay the yearly domain fee?

That Gavin dude at Ultimate Reloader seems to no longer be active on his own commercial site, and everything is Out of Stock.

I don't think a regular bench vice is going to do it. How do I bend this 5/8" piece of steel as close as possible to the threads - without messing up the threads? I could use a 1"x4' gas pipe I keep around for leverage, but its holding the short end of the rod (2") where I want it bent that's difficult.

Boxerglocker
04-26-2011, 02:04
If you had a bench strong enough. You could get a couple of spare nuts 2or 3 to cover the threads completely. Hold that side on the vice. Heat with a propane torch and bend away. Gonna take some muscle but it could be done. Personally I would just get one of Adams billard ball handles.

IndyGunFreak
04-26-2011, 02:21
Keeps crashing everytime I try to go there to look for the only guy I've seen do a serious handle mod for the LnL AP. Did somebody forget to pay the yearly domain fee?

That Gavin dude at Ultimate Reloader seems to no longer be active on his own commercial site, and everything is Out of Stock.

I don't think a regular bench vice is going to do it. How do I bend this 5/8" piece of steel as close as possible to the threads - without messing up the threads? I could use a 1"x4' gas pipe I keep around for leverage, but its holding the short end of the rod (2") where I want it bent that's difficult.

I never thought of trying to bend the current "straight" handle.

There were some threads a while ago, of someone taking the Dillon 550/650 roller handle, and cutting off the bottom inch or so, and re-threading it for the Hornady. I'd do that, before attempting to bend the straight handle.

Do you know what the threads are on the LNL handle?

IGF

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 03:57
Neither Adam's balls nor the Dillon handle will move the handle grip forward the 6-8" I would like. If you look at Ultimate Reloader's handle, the grip is located all the way to the rear of the press when its in the resting position. This is advantageous in that when the handle is pushed all the way down the grip no longer ends up near the knees, more at the waist position. I would have to raise the press so that the dies at at eye level while standing to get the bottom stroke to end at the waist in order to not have to bend my knees and back to finish the stroke. I like the height of the press now that its on a strongmount. I don't like that the handle continues to swing so low.

Also, I got rid of my bench and vice. I don't think it would have worked because the vice was on a swiveling mount, and there would be no way to tighten it enough to withstand the bending of a 5/8" rod.

g29guy
04-26-2011, 04:28
Just a thought. Cut the 2" off and thread the little piece and the lever. Now you could screw both into a 15 30 or 45 degree fitting. Not pretty but practical, and only $1.77. Home improvement store will thread the handle for free but the small piece wont fit into the threading machine.:dunno:
216082

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 04:36
Can somebody with an LCT tell me the diameter of the handle shaft? Ultimate reloader has the LCT version of his bent handle in stock.

What's the diameter of the LCT handle?

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 04:40
Just a thought. Cut the 2" off and thread the little piece and the lever. Now you could screw both into a 15 30 or 45 degree fitting. Not pretty but practical, and only $1.77. Home improvement store will thread the handle for free but the small piece wont fit into the threading machine.:dunno:
216082

Thought about that, but nothing in the pipe industry is size for threaded, 5/8" outer diameter pipe. Even 1/2" piping has a 3/4" outer diameter, and plumbing/home improvement shops only have threading dies in standardized plumbing diameters.

But now you have me thinking in a different direction. I can use pipe threading either over or under sized as well. Undersized means I need to cut additional threads on brass pipe and just use washers and nuts on both sides of the toggle. Oversized means I need to drill and tap the toggle to the next standard pipe size higher.
This is a 3/8" inner diameter brass tube with 1/2" threads. I'll see if there are 45deg elbows avail. At least brass is pretty each to cut threads into.
If I can get 1/2" threaded elbows, I can also use 1/2" rods and control my shape through the length of the lower and upper sections, and not have to bend anything.
Thanks for the seeder thoughts!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/PsychoKnight1/DSC05538.jpg

Still want to know about the LCT handle thickness, though, so somebody please check for me.

shotgunred
04-26-2011, 05:02
Well if it was me I would put a sleeve over the threads. Mark the area I want to bend. Heat it up to a nice cherry in my forge and then bend it in my hydraulic pipe bender. But then not everyone has a pipe bender or a forge.

Colorado4Wheel
04-26-2011, 06:53
Why do you need to bend the handle. Why not just tap it for a roller and be done with it?

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 08:11
The original post referenced the Ultimate Reloader's handle for the LnL AP: that is my goal - more the shape of the handle shaft than the roller - but a ball tip can't be used with the shape of the shaft. Are you familiar with the U.R. line of handles?


Not interested in a roller - I actually prefer the ball.

By ergonomic I mean the the distance of the downstroke, ending near the waist rather than the knees.

Take a look at the "Ultimate Reloader Hornady Handles" videos and photos - a google search will show a couple dozen demo's.

Please, someone -
Who's got an LCT and can check the fractional width of the handle?

Bob2223
04-26-2011, 08:34
I bent mine in the reese hitch on my truck, had to jump up and down on it but it worked.
I wanted the ball closer to the press and more forward like you wanting.
After a couple trys it's right where I want it, when the ram is at the top of the stroke the ball is higher so no bending over.
Not a good picture but you can see the press handle on the right compared to the stock one on the left.

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/BobMKIII/100_3014.jpg

Bob

StaTiK
04-26-2011, 09:24
I saw the same post and I bookmarked it (but you're right, THR hasn't been working lately). It was an impressive display of craftsmanship. I wish I had his schematic to duplicate it exactly.

I remember seeing that he had a standard bench vise but he lined it with what looked to be L-shaped aluminum plates. I would probably use wooden blocks.

-StaTiK-

GioaJack
04-26-2011, 09:46
Don't know if these pictures will help you or not. The first one give a pretty good comparison between the angle of UltimateLoader's roller handle on the right and the stock handle on the left. The angle reduces the travel of the down stroke by about 6 or 7 inches.
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4299.jpg?1303831786

These are all old pictures, before the case feeders and bullet feeder but as you can see in this picture I used to switch the angles handle between machines. (I never did like the 'thin; roller it came with and replaced it with a thicker, more comfortable one.)
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4276.jpg?1303832090

Here's a straight on picture for you so you can get a better idea of the angle.
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4275.jpg?1303832356

I've since added Adam's balls to both of the stock handles and switch everything out depending on the condition of my back. There are times when the angled handle is more comfortable and times the duty falls to the stock handle works better. (The added size of the pool ball is always more comfortable when it comes to my arthritic hands.
http://i567.photobucket.com/albums/ss114/GioaJack/IMG_4411.jpg?1303832517

Hope this helps at least a little.


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-26-2011, 10:19
I would just raise the press to the right height. UR presses are all to low. It's obvious if you watch the videos. He has to bend over to finish the stroke. He designed a handle to fix his bench problem rather then raise the press.

Base of the press should be about 47 inch" off the floor for a 5'10" person. Standing. If on a stool it's going to be a little lower. Maybe 45". Add about 1 inch for every 2 inch's of the users height.

That's all ballpark kinda stuff.

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 19:30
I would just raise the press to the right height. UR presses are all to low. It's obvious if you watch the videos. He has to bend over to finish the stroke. He designed a handle to fix his bench problem rather then raise the press.
Base of the press should be about 47 inch" off the floor for a 5'10" person. Standing. If on a stool it's going to be a little lower. Maybe 45". Add about 1 inch for every 2 inch's of the users height.
That's all ballpark kinda stuff.
"He designed a handle to fix his bench problem rather then raise the press." How do you know that it isn't the other way around: people keep trying to raise the press when in fact, press makers have a poor handle design? Ergocentrism: when you want everything in the world to work properly for your own physical comfort. My ergo may not be your ergo. But I do appreciate the thoughtful thoughts - . . . I think.

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 19:50
Don't know if these pictures will help you or not. The first one give a pretty good comparison between the angle of UltimateLoader's roller handle on the right and the stock handle on the left. The angle reduces the travel of the down stroke by about 6 or 7 inches.
Hope this helps at least a little.
Jack

Thanks a ton, Jack.
That's the general idea. And I agree that the chrome grip is not ergonomic, it was designed to be fingered, not palmed, and for this reason its use has not migrated out of control wheel of industrial machines.

One advantage I can integrate as I shape my handle is to take advantage of the press being mounted on a strongmount - I don't need to bend located so high. Its location was to get around the bench. Since not no bench next to the press, I can make the bend right above the toggle, so I am able to keep a straight line on the handle rod from the linkage to the ball. My handle might have a 15deg tilt, as opposed to the 25deg tilt I guestimate on the U. Reloader handle.

I'm going to try Bob223's idea. I gotta hitch. I can jump.

Thanks for your help.

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 19:56
I bent mine in the reese hitch on my truck, had to jump up and down on it but it worked.
I wanted the ball closer to the press and more forward like you wanting.
After a couple trys it's right where I want it, when the ram is at the top of the stroke the ball is higher so no bending over.
Not a good picture but you can see the press handle on the right compared to the stock one on the left.


Bob

Hitch Receiver ! ! !

Dang - why didn't I think of it. So simple.

I'm going to do exactly what you did, but I will mount the handle upside down. If you use a strongmount, you can also invert your handle and get an additional 2" or so, plus raises the press closer to mid-torso height.

You saved me long nights of great anguish, Bob - thanks!

Colorado4Wheel
04-26-2011, 20:56
"He designed a handle to fix his bench problem rather then raise the press." How do you know that it isn't the other way around: people keep trying to raise the press when in fact, press makers have a poor handle design? Ergocentrism: when you want everything in the world to work properly for your own physical comfort. My ergo may not be your ergo. But I do appreciate the thoughtful thoughts - . . . I think.


It's pretty obvious to see that his press is too low. Bending over to load is a bad idea for your back.

You should try the press at the right height before solving the issue in some unique fashion. Correct height is different for different people. Putting the ball at the height of the shoulder or your eyes about 18 inch's off the bench makes operating the handle easier.

I used a LnL at that height and it was perfect. Just like the 550 before it and the 650 after it.

Of course perhaps you got something else going on.

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 23:22
Thanks for everyone's contributions - I'm finally done with it.

LnL AP with the world's only handle bent forward at the toggle link.
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/PsychoKnight1/LnLBentShaft.jpg
Handle ball goes all the way behind the press, but the shaft is not nearly as severe an angle as others, due to my painstaking bending trauma just two inches from the end of the rod.

I like the Horizontal Shaft ending position
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/PsychoKnight1/LnLHorizontalHandle.jpg
. . . right at the hip bone; ouw it feels good not to bend. I get a 7-1/2" rise out of this. (need a better adverb)

And, after everyone's suggestion, I decided mine was the best, for me. I decided not to stress over what the primers go into - it d'un matta.

Flaming Primer Deflector
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/PsychoKnight1/PrimerDeflector.jpg

Okay -all done - thanks again to everybody who helped, Bob, Bob, Jack, and our buddy, The Steve.

PsychoKnight
04-26-2011, 23:30
Naw. I don't like the bench at 4' high. Its gotta be useful for something other than a single function pedestal for a press.

I think all handles should be shaped like this. Just wait, in 15 - 20 years it'll all be this way.

labdwakin
04-27-2011, 01:26
looks like practical solution, man! I can't put my bench much higher... that would have me needing a ladder or step stool or something to fill the casefeeder.

Colorado4Wheel
04-27-2011, 17:30
Thats just what you do. I have a ladder for inspecting the casefeeder. I can load it from the floor easy enough.

A bench at 40" is very useful. Strongmount at 7-8 inch's is perfect. Or build a 24X24 bench at 48"

GioaJack
04-27-2011, 17:36
looks like practical solution, man! I can't put my bench much higher... that would have me needing a ladder or step stool or something to fill the casefeeder.

Thats just what you do. I have a ladder for inspecting the casefeeder. I can load it from the floor easy enough.

A bench at 40" is very useful. Strongmount at 7-8 inch's is perfect. Or build a 24X24 bench at 48"


Hire taller butlers.


Jack

PsychoKnight
04-27-2011, 17:49
Don't raise the press. Dig a hole, with steps leading down.

Upper floor apartment dwellers should not try this.




Anyone put a mirror on the ceiling so you can see when you get low on brass in the feeder?

Colorado4Wheel
04-27-2011, 17:55
I am going to guess that you couldn't even move that handle all the way down with out your bend.

labdwakin
04-27-2011, 18:54
Thats just what you do. I have a ladder for inspecting the casefeeder. I can load it from the floor easy enough.

A bench at 40" is very useful. Strongmount at 7-8 inch's is perfect. Or build a 24X24 bench at 48"

My bench is built at 43". I may have to look at that handle mod though... looks good and with 3 Dillons without Roller handles... I think I need it.

Colorado4Wheel
04-27-2011, 19:16
If your happy with the height of the press at 43" but your bending over to move the handle that makes sense. Only thing to be aware of is you may be bending your neck more then needed at that slightly lower height. 43" is pretty close to the height of my 650/550/lnl. My Star Sizer and Turret are at that height. It's a great height for those presses and basic bench tasks.

labdwakin
04-27-2011, 19:38
If your happy with the height of the press at 43" but your bending over to move the handle that makes sense. Only thing to be aware of is you may be bending your neck more then needed at that slightly lower height. 43" is pretty close to the height of my 650/550/lnl. My Star Sizer and Turret are at that height. It's a great height for those presses and basic bench tasks.


My back's all hosed up and I can't reach as high as some and don't want to be straining or using a ladder to fill primer magazines.

GioaJack
04-27-2011, 19:41
My back's all hosed up and I can't reach as high as some and don't want to be straining or using a ladder to fill primer magazines.


If you'd get that kid off your neck maybe your back will feel better. (Being a highly trained investigator I noticed him right off.)


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
04-27-2011, 19:46
47" is not that high. Your at 43" It's only a extra 4"

But you know your back, not me.

labdwakin
04-27-2011, 20:46
If you'd get that kid off your neck maybe your back will feel better. (Being a highly trained investigator I noticed him right off.)


Jack

That's my little nephew, Nick. He lives in Boulder.

GioaJack
04-27-2011, 20:58
That's my little nephew, Nick. He lives in Boulder.




Great, just what we need, another damn liberal. Worse yet, one that's gonna be around another 65 years.

I'm ready Lord... whoa, whoa, not yet, let me finish this cigarette.


Jack

labdwakin
04-27-2011, 21:17
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Great, just what we need, another damn liberal. Worse yet, one that's gonna be around another 65 years.

I'm ready Lord... whoa, whoa, not yet, let me finish this cigarette.


Jack


Actually... i think my sister and her husband moved there with the full intention of converting the entire city to being true conservatives... LOL

PsychoKnight
04-28-2011, 00:42
I am going to guess that you couldn't even move that handle all the way down with out your bend.

Is that an insult?
Because, if it is, I want you to know that I resemble that remark.

You know, if you bought me enough rounds of booze, I could get to like you.

shotgunred
04-28-2011, 08:51
My back's all hosed up and I can't reach as high as some and don't want to be straining or using a ladder to fill primer magazines.

I don't know about primer magazines but I have to use something to load a case feeder. Though I have learned that you shouldn't load your case feeder after you have had a few. :cheers: Or at least don't think that the rickety lawn chair you were sitting on makes a good ladder.

Colorado4Wheel
04-28-2011, 10:03
Is that an insult?
Because, if it is, I want you to know that I resemble that remark.

You know, if you bought me enough rounds of booze, I could get to like you.



Anyone who can load 28K rounds on a LM is to be respected. I'm just making a observation so that others that don't want to bend the handle don't mount the press so far in.

sellersm
04-28-2011, 10:13
Actually... i think my sister and her husband moved there with the full intention of converting the entire city to being true conservatives... LOL

Wow, talk about a mission impossible...:wow:

shotgunred
04-28-2011, 13:12
The high road is up and running now.

labdwakin
04-28-2011, 15:26
Wow, talk about a mission impossible...:wow:

Her Liberal neighbors all think that she's nuts and kind of snobbish... it's GREAT!!! :supergrin: :supergrin: :supergrin:

PsychoKnight
04-28-2011, 18:21
Anyone who can load 28K rounds on a LM is to be respected. I'm just making a observation so that others that don't want to bend the handle don't mount the press so far in.

Ah, your're talking interference between the handle and the table top. I thought you were saying I didn't know how to operate a handle.

I mounted the press before I bent the handle, not knowing if I would be bending the handle or getting Ultimate Reloader's handle. With the handle drooping down unmodified, I slid the strongmount as far as it would go toward the table and still provide a 1/8" clearance between handle and table. The like that the frame is mounted entirely inside the perimenter of the table. This allows me to reach for table items much more easily.

unclebob
04-28-2011, 19:21
Cut the case feeder mount post shorter. Just make sure you leave enough of the pipe to go into the case feeder without hitting the bend. Then cut the case feed tube to match. Don’t need a mirror. You can hear when it is out of brass. The motor keeps running. I do have a magnet inside the case feeder just in case a brass looking steel case should slip by.
For me I like the strong mount. I built my reloading bench about 35 years ago. I am not about to build a new one. The strong mount puts the press up now so that I can open the bottom cabinet doors all the way open. The strong mounts allow me to put the spent primer and media from the casefeeder to go into the container that sits under the strong mount, and out of the way. It also allowed me to mount the light to shine into station 3 to check for powder. The bullet tray is right next to the shell plate and is also a nice rest for my left hand. My hand does not even come off the bullet tray. It also allows for me to leave the oil and grease that I use for the press under the bullet tray and they are out of the way. The strong mount also lets me attach different attachments that are used for the press. So for me I like the strong mount.

noylj
04-28-2011, 21:51
I love the Hornady L-N-L AP.
When I first got it, I was shocked (shocked, I tell you) that the handle was straight. I immediately put the old "bent" handle from my old Hornady on it.
When I sold the old press, I felt a moral obligation to ship it with the "bent" handle.
I have no "ergo" issues with the handle and ball, but the bent handle fit in my workspace better.
I know some buy modified pool balls (larger ball is more comfortable to them) and others have modified to use the Dillon horizontal "bicycle" handle.

Colorado4Wheel
04-29-2011, 06:34
Cut the case feeder mount post shorter. Just make sure you leave enough of the pipe to go into the case feeder without hitting the bend. Then cut the case feed tube to match. Don’t need a mirror. You can hear when it is out of brass. The motor keeps running. I do have a magnet inside the case feeder just in case a brass looking steel case should slip by.
For me I like the strong mount. I built my reloading bench about 35 years ago. I am not about to build a new one. The strong mount puts the press up now so that I can open the bottom cabinet doors all the way open. The strong mounts allow me to put the spent primer and media from the casefeeder to go into the container that sits under the strong mount, and out of the way. It also allowed me to mount the light to shine into station 3 to check for powder. The bullet tray is right next to the shell plate and is also a nice rest for my left hand. My hand does not even come off the bullet tray. It also allows for me to leave the oil and grease that I use for the press under the bullet tray and they are out of the way. The strong mount also lets me attach different attachments that are used for the press. So for me I like the strong mount.

You can only get it a little shorter on the LnL

unclebob
04-29-2011, 06:56
You can only get it a little shorter on the LnL

Yep you are right; you are stuck in the height of what Hornady makes their feeder post.
I have my Dillon 30” from the bottom of the press to the top of the case feeder.

UltimateReloader
04-29-2011, 10:31
Guys- Just wanted to let you know that that we should have these back in stock and ready to buy this weekend. Sorry for the delay. We're doing a bigger production run this time, and the new handles will be an updated/improved version! I'll post a link when they're ready for order.

BTW: The site is running fine for me- anyone else having trouble with http://ultimatereloader.com ?

Thanks,
Gavin (Ultimate Reloader)

PCJim
04-29-2011, 10:51
Your site works fine for me.

UltimateReloader
04-29-2011, 16:38
Hey guys, the combo kits, bullet trays, and ergo handles are available for order:

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="609"><colgroup><col style="mso-width-source:userset;mso-width-alt:22272;width:457pt" width="609"> </colgroup><tbody><tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl64" style="height:15.0pt;width:457pt" height="20" width="609">Ultimate Reloader Combo Pack for Hornady Lock-N-Load (http://ultimatereloader.com/2010/11/01/ultimate-reloader-combo-pack-for-hornady-lock-n-load/)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl64" style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Ultimate Reloader Modular Bullet Tray System for Hornady (http://ultimatereloader.com/2009/04/12/new-hornady-modular-bullet-tray-system/)</td> </tr> <tr style="height:15.0pt" height="20"> <td class="xl64" style="height:15.0pt" height="20">Ultimate Reloader Roller Handle for Hornady Lock-N-Load AP (http://ultimatereloader.com/2009/02/22/hornady-lock-n-load-roller-handle/)</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Sorry again for the delays!

Thanks,
Gavin

PsychoKnight
04-30-2011, 11:08
The strong mount also lets me attach different attachments that are used for the press. So for me I like the strong mount.

When will press manufacturers all figure that a strongmount should be included with all mountable presses?

When will somebody offer an aftermarket strongmount that is predrilled for multiple brands of presses (or even delivered undrilled is fine)?


Gavin, are you there?

You could make them in varying widths so that more than one press can be mounted on the same platform. Or, sell modular parts: angled side plates, center supports, top plate in varying widths. People can order the parts to build.

unclebob
04-30-2011, 12:43
When will press manufacturers all figure that a strongmount should be included with all mountable presses?

When will somebody offer an aftermarket strongmount that is predrilled for multiple brands of presses (or even delivered undrilled is fine)?


Gavin, are you there?

You could make them in varying widths so that more than one press can be mounted on the same platform. Or, sell modular parts: angled side plates, center supports, top plate in varying widths. People can order the parts to build.
Get the strong mount. Go to your friendly metal place not Lowe’s or Home Depot. Tell them what length how wide and what thickness you want. Drill and mount that between the Strong mount then attach the press in the center of the steel plate.