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High Altitude
04-26-2011, 17:35
You guys ever get the urge to buy a lee progressive because you know, in your hands, these presses will work fine after you dial them in :supergrin:

One day I am going to get a Lee Pro 1000 to see what all the talk is about. After watching all the videos on the Lee Pro 1000 and the Loadmaster, the designs actually look pretty good from a budget/value stand point.


Must be the tinkerer in me.

phred119
04-26-2011, 17:40
I've got a Load Master. I've hit a few snags along the way, but nothing the I think is beyond the normall learning curve for any new machine.

dudel
04-26-2011, 18:24
Do you want to tinker? Go with a Lee.

Do you want to reload? Go with a Dillon or a Hornady.

Choice is yours. There's a reason the Lee's are cheap.

unclebob
04-26-2011, 18:26
It all depends on how much you shoot. If you only shoot 50, 100 rds. A week and not into competition, It might work and work fine. Or do you want a press that you know will work, when you load and shot 400 to 500 rds. a week just about every week, and shoot competition?

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-26-2011, 19:19
Shoot IDPA almost every other weekend, plates and scenarios in the back yard 1-2 evenings a week with some buddies..

No problems. My loadmaster has at least 75k rounds through it since I got it in '97, replaced 1 $4 part so far.

jdavionic
04-26-2011, 19:27
I have two Lee presses - single stage & Pro 1000. I like both. The Pro 1000 works fine for me. I don't care for the primer feed system, so I hand prime the cases. But I simply set up the 3 stages with - flare/charge, seat the bullet, then crimp in the final stage. It's worked well.

I'd like to get a Dillon as well. Just have other priorities and the Lee works just fine for me. Eventually I'd like to have a press that eliminates the additional hand ops that I have now.

fredj338
04-26-2011, 21:40
I'ld rather waste my money on a HiPoint.

skeeter7
04-26-2011, 22:54
I have the Loadmaster as well, just got it a couple weeks ago off of a friend of mine who had two of them and wanted to set me up with one of his since he didn't need 2 anymore. I think the bad reviews with these come from people who don't take the time to properly set it up correctly as there are a lot of actions happening though every stroke of the handle. It was a little finicky at the very beginning because it was all new to me as I have just started reloading. But I stuck with it, learned about all aspects of the press and how to make it work properly, dialed mine in at every point, and now it truly works like a champ.

unclebob
04-27-2011, 07:28
Shoot IDPA almost every other weekend, plates and scenarios in the back yard 1-2 evenings a week with some buddies..

No problems. My loadmaster has at least 75k rounds through it since I got it in '97, replaced 1 $4 part so far.

So lets say you have loaded 100,000 with your Lee press. You have been loading on it for 14 years. That is 7142 rounds a year. Or 137 rounds a week.

Roering
04-27-2011, 10:57
So lets say you have loaded 100,000 with your Lee press. You have been loading on it for 14 years. That is 7142 rounds a year. Or 137 rounds a week.

You don't get full credit for that answer unless you show your work.

GioaJack
04-27-2011, 11:14
So lets say you have loaded 100,000 with your Lee press. You have been loading on it for 14 years. That is 7142 rounds a year. Or 137 rounds a week.


Or a very quick 100,000 rounds on a rainy Saturday afternoon. :dunno:


Jack

IndyGunFreak
04-27-2011, 11:42
So lets say you have loaded 100,000 with your Lee press. You have been loading on it for 14 years. That is 7142 rounds a year. Or 137 rounds a week.

Must be short tournaments.. :)

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-27-2011, 11:54
So lets say you have loaded 100,000 with your Lee press. You have been loading on it for 14 years. That is 7142 rounds a year. Or 137 rounds a week.

I don't understand your point.. if you have one. Do you mean to imply 137 rounds a week is to many?? or to few??

I didn't know I would need to show my reloading logs or brass pile..


Though not exactly my numbers, but for a couple years since I bought it I didn't load at all, because I was "busy".. But of "my" ammo that I shoot, (I still get to shoot some .gov ammo) I shoot in excess of 200 rounds a week pretty easy. Not hard when you have a range of your own, live 20 minutes from Ft Knox's ranges and within an hour and a half of several IDPA clubs and Knob Creek, and mostly hang out with other like minded ex combat arms people and retirees..


EDIT : OH wait I get it now. You mean to say that since I am only shooting 2-300 rounds a week, if I upped my shooting to your 5-600 rounds a week my cheap LEE which has functioned nearly perfectly for more than a decade will just melt down.

I totally understand.. See if I drive my Mustang anywhere near the distance my wife drives her Mercedes, I will never get there and the car will melt down because it only cost half as much. No way it it could be a perfectly exceptable vehicle.. carrying people from a-z with nary a hickup since I bought it.

unclebob
04-27-2011, 11:58
You don't get full credit for that answer unless you show your work.

Sorry but I will not amputate my fingers and toes, To show my work.:supergrin:

SFCSMITH(RET)
04-27-2011, 11:58
Must be short tournaments.. :)

I don't know what "tournaments" you refer to?

A typical IDPA match around here is 35-50 rounds. I don't load any rifle rounds, but also don't shoot a whole lot of them. Maybe 15% of my shooting is rifle and shotgun.

steve1340
04-27-2011, 12:08
I bought a used Loadmaster 2 weeks ago, after spending countless hours on youtube trying to fiqure out the priming system (with no success), i decided to sell it on ebay. Last week I got my Dillion 550B, in 2 hours I had the loader all set up and 150 rounds loaded. It is truly a pleasure to use! Dillion all the way.

IndyGunFreak
04-27-2011, 13:03
EDIT : OH wait I get it now. You mean to say that since I am only shooting 2-300 rounds a week, if I upped my shooting to your 5-600 rounds a week my cheap LEE which has functioned nearly perfectly for more than a decade will just melt down.

I totally understand.. See if I drive my Mustang anywhere near the distance my wife drives her Mercedes, I will never get there and the car will melt down because it only cost half as much. No way it it could be a perfectly exceptable vehicle.. carrying people from a-z with nary a hickup since I bought it.

Hmm..No, I don't think you understand what he was saying.

unclebob
04-27-2011, 13:07
I don't understand your point.. if you have one. Do you mean to imply 137 rounds a week is to many?? or to few??

I didn't know I would need to show my reloading logs or brass pile..


Though not exactly my numbers, but for a couple years since I bought it I didn't load at all, because I was "busy".. But of "my" ammo that I shoot, (I still get to shoot some .gov ammo) I shoot in excess of 200 rounds a week pretty easy. Not hard when you have a range of your own, live 20 minutes from Ft Knox's ranges and within an hour and a half of several IDPA clubs and Knob Creek, and mostly hang out with other like minded ex combat arms people and retirees..

Didnít mean for you to get defensive. But yes 200 rds. a week is a low number to some of us. The point is if you do not shoot a lot and shoot competition a Lee press might suit your needs just fine. If you like to tinker with the press to get it to work right, that is fine also. Some of us like a press to run out of the box without tinkering, and we shoot 400+ rounds a week. Even though I belong to 3 shooting clubs. I guess one does not count since that is skeet range. The closet one is 7 miles away but very restrictive. The one that I can shoot steel on, and donít have set range targets is 47 miles away. So when I go and that was just about every week. It was at least 400 + rds. Just to make the trip worthwhile.
Some people can get the LM to work and have very good luck with it and are very happy. Others cannot. There are, I think very few people that load 15,000 to 40,000 or more a year that use any type of Lee press.

Uncle Don
04-27-2011, 16:03
Some people can run Loadmasters, some people cannot. Fortunately, I can and have for several years. I've gone through a total of four primer sliders over a period of approximately 40k. It takes setting dies properly more than anything and even though I only load 45 ACP on it now, it's nice to pump out 50 rounds in about three minutes without using a case feeder and do it as trouble free as anyone with any other brand of press.

PsychoKnight
04-27-2011, 18:09
I think there are exactly 3 people in this world who have great success pumping out 25k rounds/yr on a Lee progressive.

Uncle Don is one of them, and I admire him for that. I have no idea who the other two would be.

I had about 29k across two years before giving up on the LM. I learned a lot from that machine. All of it useless. Its like becoming the best sushi maker in the world when you, all your friends and family all hate sushi, and you have nothing to do with the food service business, or sushi in general.

I don't want to become an expert at figuring out a press. I want to reload w/ convenience and efficiency. The more reloading and less figuring, the better.

I really think the LM is an evolving creature. Everytime you figure out a problem, it evolves to provide you with another challenge. They may be few and far between, or many and frequent, but it will never end. Never.

Shellplate rotational acceleration was a real kick. This is transferable technology. I'd rather push a handle to startup a small gas engine than to pull a rope. I better not say rope, or Richard L. will integrate steel cables and pulleys with the LoadMaster II - add just the right amount of moly grease here . . . and blow a puff of air right there as you fling the . . .

Look, as a teenager I bought a unicycle after reading that blind people can ride them while juggling balls. It didn't work for me or my friends. But Bruce Lee (during his drug-free moments) would have been proud of our nunchuck moves . . To each his own machine - its your own time and sanity. We just want everyone to be happy and not be a Red/Blue/Darkred/Green/Orange/GunMetal Hater.

Becoming Master of the LoadMaster is like working your way up the 5 story pagoda in The Game of Death
(Add your own sound effects at this point: first, close the door and take off your shirt)
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b143/PsychoKnight1/lee.jpg

Colorado4Wheel
04-27-2011, 18:31
Wow, 29K rounds. That is impressive. I gave up WAY before that. I am sure I was just 100rds away from utter bliss but I could not longer crawl so I had to give up.

dbarry
04-27-2011, 20:12
This thread is almost as much fun as the GAP vs ACP ballistics. Popcorn anyone?

fredj338
04-27-2011, 23:38
I bought a used Loadmaster 2 weeks ago, after spending countless hours on youtube trying to fiqure out the priming system (with no success), i decided to sell it on ebay. Last week I got my Dillion 550B, in 2 hours I had the loader all set up and 150 rounds loaded. It is truly a pleasure to use! Dillion all the way.
That is why Lee progressives are just not worth the money IMO. I want a progressive to load 1000s of trouble free rounds, not tinker w/ my gear. Still, a Lee progressive beats buying factory ammo.:dunno:

cole
04-27-2011, 23:57
Do you want to tinker? Go with a Lee.

Do you want to reload? Go with a Dillon or a Hornady.
...

Funny. I was thinking the exact same thing.

PsychoKnight
04-28-2011, 00:12
Originally Posted by dudel
"Do you want to tinker? Go with a Lee.

Do you want to reload? Go with a Dillon or a Hornady."


Funny. I was thinking the exact same thing.

Hey! You can't cross out "Hornady." That's totally un-American.

Competition is good, even if its brutal, unfair and corrupt. Where would Dillon be if not for RCBS, I mean Lyman, I mean Lee. Where would Obama's long-form birth certificate be without the Donald?

Nevermind.

WiskyT
04-28-2011, 16:42
That is why Lee progressives are just not worth the money IMO. I want a progressive to load 1000s of trouble free rounds, not tinker w/ my gear. Still, a Lee progressive beats buying factory ammo.:dunno:

Well, it sure is heartening to hear that no one has ever tinkered with the scared blue machines. Lots of Dillon tinker threads on the internet.

I have had the same Pro1000 since 1986. Every couple of years a $5.00 part wears out. I honestly don't know how many rounds I have loaded on it, but I have put two 8# kegs of Bullseye through it So that's about 32K right there.

Some people are under the impression that all a press should need is to be unboxed and the handle flailed about with maximum velocity. What that achieves is lost on me. 500 rounds a week? Thats two hours taking my time on a P1000. The Lee 1000 works. Follow the directions, demonstrate a remedial level of mechanical aptitude, and you can make 300 rounds/hr for about $150.00. OOPS!! I forgot to include the $12.00 casefeeder that works every bit as well as the monstrosity that sits on my 650 and requires electricity, and only requires that gravity continues to exert it's influence on your loading room.

unclebob
04-28-2011, 17:08
Well, it sure is heartening to hear that no one has ever tinkered with the scared blue machines. Lots of Dillon tinker threads on the internet.

I have had the same Pro1000 since 1986. Every couple of years a $5.00 part wears out. I honestly don't know how many rounds I have loaded on it, but I have put two 8# kegs of Bullseye through it So that's about 32K right there.

Some people are under the impression that all a press should need is to be unboxed and the handle flailed about with maximum velocity. What that achieves is lost on me. 500 rounds a week? Thats two hours taking my time on a P1000. The Lee 1000 works. Follow the directions, demonstrate a remedial level of mechanical aptitude, and you can make 300 rounds/hr for about $150.00. OOPS!! I forgot to include the $12.00 casefeeder that works every bit as well as the monstrosity that sits on my 650 and requires electricity, and only requires that gravity continues to exert it's influence on your loading room.

So if the Lee 1000 works so well and with such a dismal amount of electricity. But I guess you had to get a second job to just pay for the electricity that the Dillon casefeeder uses? Why did you buy a Dillon 650? What am I missing? Logic that probably even befuddles even Jacks mind? :dunno:

WiskyT
04-28-2011, 17:12
So if the Lee 1000 works so well and with such a dismal amount of electricity. But I guess you had to get a second job to just pay for the electricity that the Dillon casefeeder uses? Why did you buy a Dillon 650? What am I missing? Logic that probably even befuddles even Jacks mind? :dunno:

I didn't buy it. I would never spend $1,000.00 on anything if there is sufficient substitue for $150.00, and I have the $1,000.00 too BTW.

unclebob
04-28-2011, 17:44
casefeeder that works every bit as well as the monstrosity that sits on my 650 and requires electricity, and only requires that gravity continues to exert it's influence on your loading room.

I didn't buy it. I would never spend $1,000.00 on anything if there is sufficient substitue for $150.00, and I have the $1,000.00 too BTW.

So do you have a 650 or did one just magically appear out of thin air? I know of only one time that Dillon offered to send someone a 650 I believe with casefeeder to try for one month. And after that month he could buy it or send it back. That person refused that offer

WiskyT
04-28-2011, 17:50
So do you have a 650 or did one just magically appear out of thin air? I know of only one time that Dillon offered to send someone a 650 I believe with casefeeder to try for one month. And after that month he could buy it or send it back. That person refused that offer

Before you get in too deep on this one Bob, the 650 was my father's. He loved complicated expensive things. It's a better press over-all compared to the P1000, but that's like saying the Accura is better than the Accord. The Accord is good too, more than enough car for 99% of the people on the road, and costs at least 25% less.

unclebob
04-28-2011, 17:58
:pms::panties: If you care to go back and reread post 27 it was meant to be a joke. Is there a full moon or something?

WiskyT
04-28-2011, 18:12
Is there a full moon or something?

Yeah, right here! Now THAT was a joke!:supergrin:

:eric:

kcbrown
04-28-2011, 18:45
I'd bet that many of the problems people have had with the Pro 1000 and its priming system have been the result of them trying to operate the thing too fast, particularly on the ram's downstroke.

The primer feeding mechanism is gravity driven. It takes a certain amount of time for the next primer to drop into place once the case sensor's been tripped. Not much, but some. Cycle the press too quickly and the primer won't quite be in position when the priming pin starts to rise, and you'll get sideways/crushed primers.

I go slow and steady on my Pro 1000, just like I do on my 650. It makes it possible for me to sense when something's not right before I break something and it gives the mechanisms involved time to stabilize.

Maybe that's why I haven't had the priming problems with my Pro 1000 that others appear to have had.

fredj338
04-28-2011, 19:14
Well, it sure is heartening to hear that no one has ever tinkered with the scared blue machines. Lots of Dillon tinker threads on the internet.

I have had the same Pro1000 since 1986. Every couple of years a $5.00 part wears out. I honestly don't know how many rounds I have loaded on it, but I have put two 8# kegs of Bullseye through it So that's about 32K right there.

Some people are under the impression that all a press should need is to be unboxed and the handle flailed about with maximum velocity. What that achieves is lost on me. 500 rounds a week? Thats two hours taking my time on a P1000. The Lee 1000 works. Follow the directions, demonstrate a remedial level of mechanical aptitude, and you can make 300 rounds/hr for about $150.00. OOPS!! I forgot to include the $12.00 casefeeder that works every bit as well as the monstrosity that sits on my 650 and requires electricity, and only requires that gravity continues to exert it's influence on your loading room.
Well, you & UD seem to be happy & I am glad for you. Yeah, I expect stuff to work out of the box, whether a refrigerator or loading press. Even though I am quite mecahnically inlcined, I don't want to have to tinker w/ my loading press. The only reason to tinker w/ a Dillon is because you want to, like adding a tube & bottle primer collection to my 650. The 550B, except for adding a large wheel to the powder measure adjustment, never do anything but lube the press on occasion & clean th eprimer slide. It just runs & runs. Hey, it's not like I called you a liberal Democrat, I still like you Wisky, even if you lean to the red side. I just hate cheap tools & like my stuff to work all the time.:supergrin:
I'd bet that many of the problems people have had with the Pro 1000 and its priming system have been the result of them trying to operate the thing too fast, particularly on the ram's downstroke.
Well I certainly wouldn't buy any progressive to operate it slow! Lee stuff, almost everything they make, is quirky & cheap, it just is, even Wisky admits the 650 is a better made tool. Like everything else in our great country, you are free to buy cheap, moderate or expensive. I hate cars & trucks, hate spending money on them, but need one. I refuse to pay $50K for any automobile, regardless of quality. Even guns, I have limits to what I will toss for a single gun. I have paid as much as $2K for a custom rifle. Does it shoot any better than a stock Ruger, maybe a little bit, but I do love the workmanship & nothing wrong w/ pride of ownership.
I don't bash Lee users but do bash Lee gear, it is what it is. I prefer everyone reload on Lee gear than buy factory ammo though, now those guys I do bash.:rofl:

WiskyT
04-28-2011, 20:25
While some might not consider it "tinkering", Jack, on at least one, maybe two, occasions, has had to have Dillon send him missing or defective parts (micro switches and other doo-hickies). And while it's hard for me to keep track of C4W's saga's, isn't he waiting for parts for his incompletely shipped 650? These were brand new out of the box and needed attention.

fredj338
04-29-2011, 00:13
While some might not consider it "tinkering", Jack, on at least one, maybe two, occasions, has had to have Dillon send him missing or defective parts (micro switches and other doo-hickies). And while it's hard for me to keep track of C4W's saga's, isn't he waiting for parts for his incompletely shipped 650? These were brand new out of the box and needed attention.
WEll, nothing is perfect, but start w/ poor quality & it rarely gets better. Hell, I need more than one try to get Lee molds to work right. The onyl thing they make I really like is their 20# bottom pour pot & their dies aren't bad, if you get good ones that don't need polishing.:whistling:

PsychoKnight
04-29-2011, 05:55
Before you get in too deep on this one Bob, the 650 was my father's. He loved complicated expensive things. It's a better press over-all compared to the P1000, but that's like saying the Accura is better than the Accord. The Accord is good too, more than enough car for 99% of the people on the road, and costs at least 25% less.

Did you just compare the P1000 to the Accord?

:wow:

Do you drink home brewed whisky, with perhaps industrial additives?

fredj338
04-29-2011, 09:21
Did you just compare the P1000 to the Accord?

:wow:

Do you drink home brewed whisky, with perhaps industrial additives?
You really can't, the Accord works all the time.:rofl: Any Lee Progressive is like a moped; yeah, it gets you there, but way more effort is involved & just not as comfortable. Probably like ugly women too, but we won't go there.:whistling:

unclebob
04-29-2011, 10:23
You really can't, the Accord works all the time.:rofl: Any Lee Progressive is like a moped; yeah, it gets you there, but way more effort is involved & just not as comfortable. Probably like ugly women too, but we won't go there.:whistling:

Is that like a traveling sales person driving a Yugo.? Just because the basic price of the car is cheap.

macsimizer26
04-29-2011, 10:48
so tell me this since you are all very stubborn and opionated on what works and what doesnt and how much it costs or doesnt cost and how well its made and how well it isnt, where the flyin F could i find a MID-RANGE progressive reloader, since i dont not shoot idpa, competetion or any type of pistol sport other than killing paper on the weekends for about 200 rnds of 45,40sw, and 223, to get started with? I Have been collecting my brass and saving everyone elses too :tongueout:, any advice, looking to spend around 300

unclebob
04-29-2011, 10:55
so tell me this since you are all very stubborn and opionated on what works and what doesnt and how much it costs or doesnt cost and how well its made and how well it isnt, where the flyin F could i find a MID-RANGE progressive reloader, since i dont not shoot idpa, competetion or any type of pistol sport other than killing paper on the weekends for about 200 rnds of 45,40sw, and 223, to get started with? I Have been collecting my brass and saving everyone elses too :tongueout:, any advice, looking to spend around 300

Yep, get a Lee LCT. https://kempfgunshop.com//index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1

sellersm
04-29-2011, 11:14
+1 what Unclebob said.

The LCT will serve your needs quite nicely! Or if you can find a used Dillon 550 for a steal....

Colorado4Wheel
04-29-2011, 12:03
so tell me this since you are all very stubborn and opionated on what works and what doesnt and how much it costs or doesnt cost and how well its made and how well it isnt, where the flyin F could i find a MID-RANGE progressive reloader, since i dont not shoot idpa, competetion or any type of pistol sport other than killing paper on the weekends for about 200 rnds of 45,40sw, and 223, to get started with? I Have been collecting my brass and saving everyone elses too :tongueout:, any advice, looking to spend around 300


$300 is doable with the LCT and Kempfs. Don't make price your only criteria. Get the LCT, add more stuff (calibers) as you go. Either that or get a GOOD single stage. Lee Classic Cast would be a good cheap one. You won't save much money doing it like that.

macsimizer26
04-29-2011, 13:09
soo save up the couple extra bucks and get a dillon 550? whats the major differences between the 550 and 650?

fredj338
04-29-2011, 13:30
soo save up the couple extra bucks and get a dillon 550? whats the major differences between the 550 and 650?
The 650 is auto indexing & works best w/ a case feeder, one add'l. stn for a powder check. If you only need 200rds/wk, a LCT is all you need, hell I use to do that on a ss press. The 550B is simple, rugged, always works, at least mine has. It's also easy & cheaper to change calibers if you reload a lot of diff ones. The 650 is luxery reloading, way over kill for 200rds/wk, but if you want one, get one.

WiskyT
04-29-2011, 14:47
WEll, nothing is perfect, but start w/ poor quality & it rarely gets better. Hell, I need more than one try to get Lee molds to work right. The onyl thing they make I really like is their 20# bottom pour pot & their dies aren't bad, if you get good ones that don't need polishing.:whistling:

All I know is the last time I checked in on our caped wonder-loader, he was staring at an idle 650.

I've gotten 1/2 dozen Lee molds, everyone works fine. Several sets of Lee dies are perfect and some are older than the new guys on this board.

macsimizer26
04-29-2011, 15:16
well im only 24 so u guys must be OLD lol JK JK JK :tongueout:, are your SS#'s 1 and 2? lol thanks for the info

fredj338
04-29-2011, 16:29
All I know is the last time I checked in on our caped wonder-loader, he was staring at an idle 650.

I've gotten 1/2 dozen Lee molds, everyone works fine. Several sets of Lee dies are perfect and some are older than the new guys on this board.
You are either blessed or I am too pciky about my gear. I have sent two 6cav molds back, borken severla hand priming tools, sent one set of dies back. Every manuf has lemons, I just think Lee has more. Again, I don't care what you load w/ WT, I just can't recommend much of the Lee gear. For guys on a budget, yeah, knock yourself out & get all Lee. Just don;t be surprised when it doesn't do what it's supposed to.:dunno:

Phunahm
04-29-2011, 16:47
I had a LM and loaded with out a glitch I have a Dillon now and load with out a glitch Difference "PRICE".... I love them Both!!!:wavey:

Uncle Don
04-29-2011, 19:15
I had a LM and loaded with out a glitch I have a Dillon now and load with out a glitch Difference "PRICE".... I love them Both!!!:wavey:

Good point. Even though I haven't had any issues with my LM, to be fair, I'm pretty confident I wouldn't have one with a Dillon. However, it just doesn't make any financial sense for me to purchase one when mine works well and it loads just as fast. For the record, I don't have to "tinker" with it because if I did - it would be gone. I've said 100 times - improper die setting will cause a snowball of issues that I read about all the time. Yet no one is able to consider themselves as the potential weak link.

As to affordability - that isn't an issue. Woodworking with hand tools is another hobby and has been for years. I have two hand planes and a set of chisels of which each meet or exceed the initial cost of a 550. I feel fortunate to be able to afford it, but it bothers me slightly when people assume that I stick with the LM because I can't swing anything else.

As an example, I also have an inexpensive plane that my wife gave me when I started this - and it works so well, I've never felt the need to upgrade that particular size. I could, but wouldn't give me any better service - it would just be an irresponsible way to waste money. It's simply how I feel about the LM.

AZson
04-29-2011, 19:21
I've used a 4 holer for years, works great and the money I saved on a blue or other red press, has bought me a lot of reloading material.

High Altitude
04-29-2011, 22:22
I've said 100 times - improper die setting will cause a snowball of issues that I read about all the time.

What do you mean by this? What is considered an improper die setting and what type of problems does it cause?

I am very intrigued by the LEE progressives. It seems that if you set them up correctly, they run pretty good. Seems like a great value for the money. The only recuring issue that continually comes up is the primer feed systems and if you keep them clean/fed and the rest of the press is setup correctly, there shouldn't be any problems.

I saw a video of a guy having problems on a pro 1000 getting primers to pop into the case. It took a lot of pressure and eventually it wouldn't prime, powder in the case went everywhere and that was that. The guy blamed the primer system but IMHO his issue had nothing to do with the primer system. It looked liked the timing was off and he was having alignment issues.

I often wonder how many problems with LEE progressives are actually user errors and have nothing to do with the press itself.

Uncle Don
04-30-2011, 06:35
What do you mean by this? What is considered an improper die setting and what type of problems does it cause?


Essentially, the press does everything at the top of the stroke, including priming. This throws many people because it's an adjustable setting. If you figure that you have a set of dies in the press and then adjust the priming system to that set of dies, everything will work fine. Then, when you switch die sets and they are too deep, the priming system would be off and all the symptoms will show themselves such as flipped, twisted primers and primer sliders that break every few rounds - plus a really bad setting will put too much stress on the carrier and can crack it. If all die sets are set properly which means that all work happen when the ram is at the top of the stroke, one primer setting will work from die set to die set.

If the primer system is set too deep, the slider then must try and put a primer on the post after it's already rising. It's not logical, but people rarely consider themselves the cause - they think aircraft grade steel must be the answer. The press must be operated in full strokes. If those two things are done, you are about 95% of the way. Easy setting of the case retainers and knowing how to properly set the tension on the chain (takes mere seconds) to the powder measure and you've made it the rest of the way.

I have a 10 point suggestion list which used to be a sticky, but it's simply more of a Dillon site and it's long dissapeared. If you PM me your address, I'll email it to you if you want.

Lastly, I've commented before that Mike Dillon is a brilliant marketer. He knows that priming is an issue for most progressive reloaders and doing it at the bottom is simply easier. In the 550, he has also removed the other factors that cause most people issues which is case feeding and indexing. He removed one (making it an option) and removed the other variable all together. The 650 is another animal and I contend that people that run those well (not having to take advantage every other week of the warranty because they broke something) can also run a LM.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion here and so should I.

redbrd
04-30-2011, 08:13
I recently bought a lee 1000 for 9mm. It works fine now it was a pain in the butt to set up. I finally settled on using a single stage and hand primer to prep cases and I do the powder flare and seating on the 1000. Not as automatic as I dreamed but still a bargain, and my biggest issue since has been components. I go through them so much faster.

phred119
04-30-2011, 08:26
I set up my Load Master using the tips that Uncle Don mentioned, and the videos from LoadMasterVideos.com. It was quite easy, and I've had NO issues with the priming system. The only "issues" I've encountered have been easily corrected.

Full disclosure - I load mostly .45ACP, and I now hand prime, for two reasons:
1. I like to use a 5 die setup, and I can't do that using the LM's priming at the top system.
2. My 45 brass is nicely mixed with some of the newer "non toxic" stuff that uses small primers, and hand priming allows me to sort the brass, and make sure that I don't try to force a large primer into the SPP brass.

I don't discount anyone using whatever press they like, but the LoadMaster has worked fine for me, and allows me to reload progressively for a very reasonable cost. YMMV.

Wash-ar15
04-30-2011, 08:54
LM and Pro 1k are great ,IMHO.I have both and have reloaded thousands of rounds through mine.

Pro's are the case feeder,auto indexing and primer tray. no need to pick up little primers with a tube. Con's are the priming. Keep the priming system clean and it will work ok. the most important thing I have found is to make sure they are bolted down to a FIRM bench. they are unforgiving of limp benching.

On parts, when i have a broken part, I send it back to Lee and a new one appears a a few days.

Most people I know drink the blue koolaid, I just never found the need for it.

Phunahm
04-30-2011, 10:26
Essentially, the press does everything at the top of the stroke, including priming. This throws many people because it's an adjustable setting. If you figure that you have a set of dies in the press and then adjust the priming system to that set of dies, everything will work fine. Then, when you switch die sets and they are too deep, the priming system would be off and all the symptoms will show themselves such as flipped, twisted primers and primer sliders that break every few rounds - plus a really bad setting will put too much stress on the carrier and can crack it. If all die sets are set properly which means that all work happen when the ram is at the top of the stroke, one primer setting will work from die set to die set.

If the primer system is set too deep, the slider then must try and put a primer on the post after it's already rising. It's not logical, but people rarely consider themselves the cause - they think aircraft grade steel must be the answer. The press must be operated in full strokes. If those two things are done, you are about 95% of the way. Easy setting of the case retainers and knowing how to properly set the tension on the chain (takes mere seconds) to the powder measure and you've made it the rest of the way.

I have a 10 point suggestion list which used to be a sticky, but it's simply more of a Dillon site and it's long dissapeared. If you PM me your address, I'll email it to you if you want.

Lastly, I've commented before that Mike Dillon is a brilliant marketer. He knows that priming is an issue for most progressive reloaders and doing it at the bottom is simply easier. In the 550, he has also removed the other factors that cause most people issues which is case feeding and indexing. He removed one (making it an option) and removed the other variable all together. The 650 is another animal and I contend that people that run those well (not having to take advantage every other week of the warranty because they broke something) can also run a LM.

Everyone is entitled to thier opinion here and so should I.


This is why your my Uncle......:supergrin::wavey:

PsychoKnight
04-30-2011, 11:22
Good point. Even though I haven't had any issues with my LM, to be fair, I'm pretty confident I wouldn't have one with a Dillon. However, it just doesn't make any financial sense for me to purchase one when mine works well and it loads just as fast. For the record, I don't have to "tinker" with it because if I did - it would be gone. I've said 100 times - improper die setting will cause a snowball of issues that I read about all the time. Yet no one is able to consider themselves as the potential weak link.

As to affordability - that isn't an issue. Woodworking with hand tools is another hobby and has been for years. I have two hand planes and a set of chisels of which each meet or exceed the initial cost of a 550. I feel fortunate to be able to afford it, but it bothers me slightly when people assume that I stick with the LM because I can't swing anything else.

As an example, I also have an inexpensive plane that my wife gave me when I started this - and it works so well, I've never felt the need to upgrade that particular size. I could, but wouldn't give me any better service - it would just be an irresponsible way to waste money. It's simply how I feel about the LM.

Uncle Don - you are both awesome and lucky!
I'm going to start calling you the man who loves his LM.
Good for you!

PsychoKnight
04-30-2011, 12:00
I often wonder how many problems with LEE progressives are actually user errors and have nothing to do with the press itself.

If only a fairly small fraction of users are able to set up a press and run it without too much trouble, would this say anything about the press itself?

I remember when the Ford Explorer exploding Bridgstone, flipover rashes were first reported as driver error, the drivers were at fault for not being able to successfully correct for high speed, front wheel blowouts. Countless lawsuits and a 105 year partnership dissolved from this particular driver error. If not enough of your buyers can make your product work, to their satisfaction, I tend to think its a design flaw, rather than inept customers.

I got my LM working perfectly - over and over and over again, I "got it working perfectly." I'm happy for people who are happy w/ their LM. Almost of half of my stuff is still Lee red. Do do miss the case feeder tubes (not the slider, I hated the slider) and not having to use a vibra prime.

dudel
04-30-2011, 12:20
I've said 100 times - improper die setting will cause a snowball of issues that I read about all the time. Yet no one is able to consider themselves as the potential weak link.

Just curious UD, how does dies setting affect the LM? I have a hard time seeing the dies would affect a progressive. I must be missing something.

I agree that few would consider themselves to be the weak link in the process. Considering how few seem to read any instructions. :supergrin:

Never mind. I see UD explained it in post 53

fredj338
04-30-2011, 12:22
I set up my Load Master using the tips that Uncle Don mentioned, and the videos from LoadMasterVideos.com. It was quite easy, and I've had NO issues with the priming system. The only "issues" I've encountered have been easily corrected.

Full disclosure - I load mostly .45ACP, and I now hand prime, for two reasons:
1. I like to use a 5 die setup, and I can't do that using the LM's priming at the top system.
2. My 45 brass is nicely mixed with some of the newer "non toxic" stuff that uses small primers, and hand priming allows me to sort the brass, and make sure that I don't try to force a large primer into the SPP brass.

I don't discount anyone using whatever press they like, but the LoadMaster has worked fine for me, and allows me to reload progressively for a very reasonable cost. YMMV.
If you are hand priming, then you are negating a big speed advantage of the progressive. I doubt you are saving any time vs say a LCT w/ far fewer headaches.:dunno:

phred119
04-30-2011, 12:27
If you are hand priming, then you are negating a big speed advantage of the progressive. I doubt you are saving any time vs say a LCT w/ far fewer headaches.:dunno:

Perhaps, but it works for me. I've got a LCT, and I prefer to load on the LM. There's nothing wrong with the LCT, I won't be getting rid of it, but I haven't had any headaches with the LM.

kcbrown
04-30-2011, 13:37
Well I certainly wouldn't buy any progressive to operate it slow! Lee stuff, almost everything they make, is quirky & cheap, it just is, even Wisky admits the 650 is a better made tool. Like everything else in our great country, you are free to buy cheap, moderate or expensive. I hate cars & trucks, hate spending money on them, but need one. I refuse to pay $50K for any automobile, regardless of quality. Even guns, I have limits to what I will toss for a single gun. I have paid as much as $2K for a custom rifle. Does it shoot any better than a stock Ruger, maybe a little bit, but I do love the workmanship & nothing wrong w/ pride of ownership.

"Slow" is a relative term. Just because I'm pulling the handle relatively slowly doesn't mean I'm not going significantly faster than I could with any non-progressive press.

In my case, between refills of primers and cases in the casefeeder, I can easily sustain a rate of one pull of the handle every 6 to 8 seconds with the Pro 1000, which is between 450 and 600 rounds per hour, assuming I don't get a crimped case or something of the sort that would force me to stop and fix the problem (anything that would cause you to deal with a problem on the Pro 1000 would also tend to force you to deal with the same problem on a Dillon 650).

So yes, you can go faster on the Dillon 650, to be sure, since on that press you can get away with whipping the handle back and forth with gay abandon while you can't do that on the Pro 1000, but that doesn't mean the Pro 1000 is slow.

The biggest difference between the two is that I have to refill my casefeeder every 100 rounds on the Pro 1000, while I don't have to do that on the Dillon. However, the time saved on filling the casefeeder is made up for by the difference in the amount of time time necessary to refill the priming system, since there is no tube to fill on the Pro 1000. That balances things out.


The bottom line is that I think you greatly underestimate the capabilities of the Pro 1000.

kcbrown
04-30-2011, 13:53
I recently bought a lee 1000 for 9mm. It works fine now it was a pain in the butt to set up. I finally settled on using a single stage and hand primer to prep cases and I do the powder flare and seating on the 1000. Not as automatic as I dreamed but still a bargain, and my biggest issue since has been components. I go through them so much faster.

The Pro 1000 demands an absolutely rock solid mount and a slow and steady downstroke of the ram for the priming system to work properly. You also have to keep the primer trough full since the primers are fed via gravity, and thus depend on the weight of the primers above them to push them into place on the priming pin. And finally, they depend on the indexing adjustment being exactly right.

Are you adhering to these principles and still getting priming problems? The indexing needs to be set such that, with the casefeeder slider removed and the ram down, the priming pin remains centered in the shellplate cutout when a moderate amount of reverse force is put on the shellplate (just more than the force needed to overcome the spring-loaded steel ball under the shellplate at station 3). Lee's instructions get you close to this but I found that they weren't precise enough.

I also took the cover plate off the bottom of the shellplate carrier and wedged a piece of dense foam in the area next to the index adjustment screw and opposite to the ratchet gear. This prevents the index adjustment screw from moving on its own (something that shouldn't happen anyway, but I like to be sure about these things). You also need to be sure that the cover plate is on in such a way that the indexing screw cannot move forwards or backwards along its axis, while also keeping the hole through which the indexing rod goes centered as much as possible.

Uncle Don
04-30-2011, 14:28
Just curious UD, how does dies setting affect the LM? I have a hard time seeing the dies would affect a progressive. I must be missing something.

I agree that few would consider themselves to be the weak link in the process. Considering how few seem to read any instructions. :supergrin:

Never mind. I see UD explained it in post 53

Fair question of which I'll attempt to give a fair answer. I think we can both agree that the sizing die determines the upper extent of the ram considering that you set for the shell plate to touch it, then turn the die in another 1/4 turn or so.

If I set the primer seating depth to work based on that, it will work fine. However when I put the next die set in and for whatever reason, the sizing die is not set to that 1/4 turn, but rather higher, the ram can now assend higher with that die set. As a result, the primer seating depth is now set way to deep and the slider is trying to put a primer on an already rising primer post. You can imagine the result.

Therefore, if all die sets are set properly so that the sizing die is that 1/4 turn down from touching the shell plate, then it doesn't matter what die set you put in - the primer seating will be correct. Of course the other dies need to be set the same too between sets or the powder metering and bullet seating wouldn't be the same - but that holds true for everything. Clear as mud? One of my weakest traits is attempting to explain something I can see in my head and have it come out to where others understand.

Uncle Don
04-30-2011, 16:17
Sorry, getting blind in my years - didn't see the last line in your quote.

dudel
05-01-2011, 05:15
Fair question of which I'll attempt to give a fair answer. I think we can both agree that the sizing die determines the upper extent of the ram considering that you set for the shell plate to touch it, then turn the die in another 1/4 turn or so.

If I set the primer seating depth to work based on that, it will work fine. However when I put the next die set in and for whatever reason, the sizing die is not set to that 1/4 turn, but rather higher, the ram can now assend higher with that die set. As a result, the primer seating depth is now set way to deep and the slider is trying to put a primer on an already rising primer post. You can imagine the result.

Therefore, if all die sets are set properly so that the sizing die is that 1/4 turn down from touching the shell plate, then it doesn't matter what die set you put in - the primer seating will be correct. Of course the other dies need to be set the same too between sets or the powder metering and bullet seating wouldn't be the same - but that holds true for everything. Clear as mud? One of my weakest traits is attempting to explain something I can see in my head and have it come out to where others understand.

Thanks UD. Very clear. Seems like that would be operator error (vs machine error), setting the sizing die down too far is not a good idea in the first place.

Uncle Don
05-01-2011, 06:53
This is why your my Uncle......:supergrin::wavey:

Would be proud to be so.

fredj338
05-01-2011, 09:18
"The bottom line is that I think you greatly underestimate the capabilities of the Pro 1000.
Not at all. If the Lee presses were all that & a bag of chips, then no one would buy anything else & it's just not so. The fact that you & a few others have good success after some to a lot of tinkering, is just a testament to your mechanical ability, not the great design or execution of the Lee press. Again, I am not knocking anyone that uses one, reloading on anything is better than shooting factory ammo, but won't recommend them to someone looking for a trouble free progressive.:dunno:

EL_NinO619
05-01-2011, 09:45
Not at all. If the Lee presses were all that & a bag of chips, then no one would buy anything else & it's just not so. The fact that you & a few others have good success after some to a lot of tinkering, is just a testament to your mechanical ability, not the great design or execution of the Lee press. Again, I am not knocking anyone that uses one, reloading on anything is better than shooting factory ammo, but won't recommend them to someone looking for a trouble free progressive.:dunno:


Fred ive never heard of a trouble free PP. from what I hear its just how long you have the truobles..Right?

kcbrown
05-01-2011, 10:30
Not at all. If the Lee presses were all that & a bag of chips, then no one would buy anything else & it's just not so. The fact that you & a few others have good success after some to a lot of tinkering, is just a testament to your mechanical ability, not the great design or execution of the Lee press. Again, I am not knocking anyone that uses one, reloading on anything is better than shooting factory ammo, but won't recommend them to someone looking for a trouble free progressive.:dunno:

My Dillon 650 has not proven to be trouble free, either, though not due to any defects in parts but, rather, due to parts working loose (probably because they either were not tightened properly at the factory or because they loosened some during shipping).

I fully agree with you, though, that Lee has poorer execution than does Dillon. The design itself is okay (brilliant in some respects, really -- Lee's casefeeder setup on the Pro 1000 is a thing of beauty).

I won't hesitate to recommend a Lee to someone with good mechanical ability.


In any case, your argument can be applied to Dillon presses, no? If Dillon were all that and a bag of chips, then nobody would buy anything else, right? :supergrin:


I think the bottom line is that you will always pay in one form or another. With the Dillon, you pay in terms of money. With the Lee, you pay in terms of up-front time. If time were really of primary concern to us then we'd be buying factory ammunition, so the biggest disadvantage of the Lee is that it requires a bit more mechanical aptitude to really get it working properly.

Of course, that leads to the question: what would you think of someone who had no mechanical aptitude whatsoever attempting to run a progressive reloading press?

fredj338
05-01-2011, 12:30
Fred ive never heard of a trouble free PP. from what I hear its just how long you have the truobles..Right?
You've only had one so how would you know? I don't think Chris has had any issues w/ his 550B once he got it setup. I am sure that even w/ the Lee, most issues are user related & not the machine. I mean set it up wrong & you can't expect it to run right.:dunno: TO me, trouble free mans once it's setup & running it stays running w/ very little tweeking.:dunno:
In any case, your argument can be applied to Dillon presses, no? If Dillon were all that and a bag of chips, then nobody would buy anything else, right?
Well, I am not sure, but I would bet anyone shooting seriously in comptetion is NOT using a Lee progressive but a Dillon of some kind or maybe a LNL, but if anyone is shooting 30K-50K rounds a year on a Lee, let me know, I want to shake their hand.

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 12:42
You've only had one so how would you know? I don't think Chris has had any issues w/ his 550B once he got it setup. I am sure that even w/ the Lee, most issues are user related & not the machine. I mean set it up wrong & you can't expect it to run right.:dunno: TO me, trouble free mans once it's setup & running it stays running w/ very little tweeking.:dunno:

See? It's all subjective. People spend $150.00 on a Lee, tinker a bit, and are called dumb for buying a cheap POS. But if you spend $1,000.00 on a Dillon, tinker with it a bit, you are a genious who has a Midas touch capable of fine tuning a thoroughbred premium machine.

Did you pay the asking price for your Dillon? Did they send you all of the press? Why having to call Dillon to ask them for ALL of your machine since you paid all of the money for it, why that's just a minor little thing, and besides their CS is so good, they'll get it right out to you.

Is your $150.00 Lee spilling a bit of powder when you use bulky in cramped 9mm? That's what you get for being cheap. But if your $1,000.00 Dillon does the same thing, why it's a privelege to have a precision piece of gear like that spill your powder. And besides, all it takes is a bit of tinkering and some parts from McMaster-Carr to fix it right up. Don't forget to bend the ejector spring.

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 12:47
Well, I am not sure, but I would bet anyone shooting seriously in comptetion is NOT using a Lee progressive but a Dillon of some kind or maybe a LNL, but if anyone is shooting 30K-50K rounds a year on a Lee, let me know, I want to shake their hand.

If I ever find my life so empty that I have to shoot 1,000 rounds a week just to try and fill it, I could load them on a Pro1000. It's only 4 hours of loading, and that would while talking on the phone.

fredj338
05-01-2011, 15:14
See? It's all subjective. People spend $150.00 on a Lee, tinker a bit, and are called dumb for buying a cheap POS. But if you spend $1,000.00 on a Dillon, tinker with it a bit, you are a genious who has a Midas touch capable of fine tuning a thoroughbred premium machine. Did you pay the asking price for your Dillon? Did they send you all of the press? Why having to call Dillon to ask them for ALL of your machine since you paid all of the money for it, why that's just a minor little thing, and besides their CS is so good, they'll get it right out to you.

Is your $150.00 Lee spilling a bit of powder when you use bulky in cramped 9mm? That's what you get for being cheap. But if your $1,000.00 Dillon does the same thing, why it's a privelege to have a precision piece of gear like that spill your powder. And besides, all it takes is a bit of tinkering and some parts from McMaster-Carr to fix it right up. Don't forget to bend the ejector spring.
You Lee guys have to stop being so lacking in self esteem. Who ever said you or anyone buyin one was stupid?:dunno:
You pretty much have to pay asking price for a Dillon if bought new, they don't offer deals. I had everything sent to me I paid for when I bought mine. I am sure if something was missing it was human error & easily fixed, vs having something sent that was made poorly & needed to be replaced (my exp w/ too many Lee products). Again, I DON'T CARE what you load on, but if someone is asking for a recommendation for a good reliable, easy to run progressive, I am not going to recommend Lee anything. If cost is the onyl factor, L would by the LCT & be happy w/ 150rds/hr. If I wanted it to run 100% out of the box & never have to tweek it, I woudl get a 550B & be happy w/ 500rds/hr & the manual indexing. If I had the money, I woudl buy the 650 w/ case feeder because I think it runs the best of any progressive I have played with so far & that would be just about all of them.:dunno:

fredj338
05-01-2011, 15:17
If I ever find my life so empty that I have to shoot 1,000 rounds a week just to try and fill it, I could load them on a Pro1000. It's only 4 hours of loading, and that would while talking on the phone.

SO cinical WT! If you want to be a great shooter, the dedication required is going to be 1000rds/wk or so. It's not about lack of fullfillment in ones life but dedication to achieving a certain goal. While that is not my goal, I am quite happy being a very good shooter, it is for some a drive. Asks them what they load on, I am sure it is not a Lee. Lee is decent hobby shooters gear. I am sure if someone gave you a 650 you would not leave it in the box, but use it & find the Lee gathering dust.:supergrin:

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 15:19
You Lee guys have to stop being so lacking in self esteem. Who ever said you or anyone buyin one was stupid?:dunno:

You never insulted anyone for using Lee, but to suggest that no one ever did is a little bit far fetched. Next time it happens, and we won't have to wiat long, I'll point it out to you


You pretty much have to pay asking price for a Dillon if bought new, they don't offer deals. I had everything sent to me I paid for when I bought mine. I am sure if something was missing it was human error & easily fixed, vs having something sent that was made poorly & needed to be replaced (my exp w/ too many Lee products).

Jack and Steve have gotten three presses from Dillon recently that were missing parts or not working properly in the last few months

Again, I DON'T CARE what you load on, but if someone is asking for a recommendation for a good reliable, easy to run progressive, I am not going to recommend Lee anything. If cost is the onyl factor, L would by the LCT & be happy w/ 150rds/hr. If I wanted it to run 100% out of the box & never have to tweek it, I woudl get a 550B & be happy w/ 500rds/hr & the manual indexing. If I had the money, I woudl buy the 650 w/ case feeder because I think it runs the best of any progressive I have played with so far & that would be just about all of them.:dunno:

You would not be steering anyone wrong by recommending anything Dillon makes.


.....

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 15:25
SO cinical WT! If you want to be a great shooter, the dedication required is going to be 1000rds/wk or so. It's not about lack of fullfillment in ones life but dedication to achieving a certain goal. While that is not my goal, I am quite happy being a very good shooter, it is for some a drive. Asks them what they load on, I am sure it is not a Lee. Lee is decent hobby shooters gear. I am sure if someone gave you a 650 you would not leave it in the box, but use it & find the Lee gathering dust.:supergrin:

1000 rounds a week is three hours on Lee gear. That's less time than that shooter will likely spend driving back and forth to the range. Should he get a helicopter:whistling:

Also, the 650 I have is set up for 40SW. Lately, I have been shooting anything but 40SW, so I have been using my Pro1000 for the 38/357/ and 9mm I've been making. I thought about getting a conversion for the 650, actually I think I have everything for 38/357, but I don't see any reason to deal with all the complexites involved. My father got the stuff for 38/357 and never took it out of it's packaging. It was easier for him just to have me make that ammo on my Lee.

M1A Shooter
05-01-2011, 17:43
ive been looking into getting a progressive for quite awhile now and have been looking at the p1000. i just cant bring myself to spend several hundred or a thousand bucks trying to save money. ive reloaded thousands of 9, 45 and 308 on my lee single stage. i think i may get a p1000 in 9 and .223 and leave the precision .308 rounds to the single stage. can get both with dies and all for less than the basic kit from others.

unclebob
05-01-2011, 18:41
1000 rounds a week is three hours on Lee gear. That's less time than that shooter will likely spend driving back and forth to the range. Should he get a helicopter:whistling:

Also, the 650 I have is set up for 40SW. Lately, I have been shooting anything but 40SW, so I have been using my Pro1000 for the 38/357/ and 9mm I've been making. I thought about getting a conversion for the 650, actually I think I have everything for 38/357, but I don't see any reason to deal with all the complexites involved. My father got the stuff for 38/357 and never took it out of it's packaging. It was easier for him just to have me make that ammo on my Lee.

If you have never done a conversion on a 650, how do you know it is complex? If you have the tool head set up and powder measure. Itís just a matter of pulling off 7 items unscrew one. Change out the shell plate. Pull of the case feeder plate for 40 put a washer over the lower clutch. Put on the other pistol plate for 38/357. Put the parts you just took off and replace them for the 38/357 caliber parts. No primer change out Then with an Allen wrench adjust the primer station locator tab so that you have about a business card between the case and the tab. The other adjustment is the shell plate. Two very simple adjustments. Should not take no more that 7 to 10 minutes. Load those 1000 rds. In about 1 Ĺ hours instead of 3.
Doing a conversion on a 650 is not as hard as people try to make it out to be.

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 18:50
If you have never done a conversion on a 650, how do you know it is complex? If you have the tool head set up and powder measure. Itís just a matter of pulling off 7 items unscrew one. Change out the shell plate. Pull of the case feeder plate for 40 put a washer over the lower clutch. Put on the other pistol plate for 38/357. Put the parts you just took off and replace them for the 38/357 caliber parts. No primer change out Then with an Allen wrench adjust the primer station locator tab so that you have about a business card between the case and the tab. The other adjustment is the shell plate. Two very simple adjustments. Should not take no more that 7 to 10 minutes. Load those 1000 rds. In about 1 Ĺ hours instead of 3.
Doing a conversion on a 650 is not as hard as people try to make it out to be.

I know it is complex by reading your post. I was drooling by the time I got to "lower clutch".

unclebob
05-01-2011, 21:11
I know it is complex by reading your post. I was drooling by the time I got to "lower clutch".

Yep I figured it was too complicated for you.

fredj338
05-01-2011, 23:35
1000 rounds a week is three hours on Lee gear. That's less time than that shooter will likely spend driving back and forth to the range. Should he get a helicopter:whistling:

Also, the 650 I have is set up for 40SW. Lately, I have been shooting anything but 40SW, so I have been using my Pro1000 for the 38/357/ and 9mm I've been making. I thought about getting a conversion for the 650, actually I think I have everything for 38/357, but I don't see any reason to deal with all the complexites involved. My father got the stuff for 38/357 and never took it out of it's packaging. It was easier for him just to have me make that ammo on my Lee.
It's why I run a 550B for everything & a 650 for my 45acp. Why, because a friend wanted a 550B & didn't have the money for a new one, so I sold him my old one for what I paid 20yrs ago w/ some extras. Then bought the 650 just to see if it was really all that much better than my 550B, it's a great machine, but I really don't need it. I was quite happy, still am, loading on the 550B, Both are far more press than I currently need. I could have used the $275 dollars for half a new Glock or other just fill my truck tank twice, but hey, no fun in that.
BTW, I did know a guy that used to fly into some of the Hipower rifle matches in a heli. Pretty cool, I would do it if I had the money!:supergrin:

Aquagear
05-08-2011, 16:35
I have had a Loadmaster since 1998. Yes there is a learning curve, but the Loadmaster web sight is great and was very helpful. I have replaced a couple of primer sliders, and finally had to replace the ram head it just wore out. I have no idea as to round count but it is up there. Yes you have to keep it clean and properly adjusted as with all machinery. The price was right and it has kept me in reloaded ammo for years.

StaTiK
05-08-2011, 19:08
I have had a Loadmaster since 1998. Yes there is a learning curve, but the Loadmaster web sight is great and was very helpful. I have replaced a couple of primer sliders, and finally had to replace the ram head it just wore out. I have no idea as to round count but it is up there. Yes you have to keep it clean and properly adjusted as with all machinery. The price was right and it has kept me in reloaded ammo for years.

How much was the replacement ram head, and how many rounds (ballpark)? A $20 replacement at 100k rounds is different than a $70 replacement at 10k rounds...

-StaTiK-

Aquagear
05-08-2011, 20:06
The round count is over 20,000 the ram head wore out where the indexing rod went through the casting. I started to have indexing trouble and after adjusting the tool head noticed the square slot was starting to open up.

StaTiK
05-08-2011, 22:52
The round count is over 20,000 the ram head wore out where the indexing rod went through the casting. I started to have indexing trouble and after adjusting the tool head noticed the square slot was starting to open up.

Are you referring to the $25 "carrier"? (Link) (http://leeprecision.com/xcart/CARRIER.html)

-StaTiK-

Aquagear
05-09-2011, 18:56
Yes it was the carrier head, the square slot that guides the indexing rod was starting to enlarge a bit. The bracket that holds the priming lever had a hairline crack also. I have used this press steadily since I bought it, figured ware and tare took its tole.