Well you asked for it. 650 impressions. [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Colorado4Wheel
04-29-2011, 19:44
I am almost afraid to say anything but here it goes anyway.

Every case goes into the shell plate with no drama. Pushing to prime is effortless compared to the LnL. You can see why because the primer punch rises MUCH higher then the primer punch on the LnL. Indexing is smoother and easier to control because you can slow down your movement just as the press indexes rather then the press constantly indexing like on the LnL. I did put the roller bearing setup on the press. I prefer the expanding die on the powder measure as well. There are some things about the LnL I prefer but this press actually works a lot more effortlessly so that is far more important to me. I have not loaded a bunch so I will have to report on that next week. This is the press I should have bought instead of the LnL.

EL_NinO619
04-29-2011, 19:48
Retrack your statement now..lol good to hear, glad you did not get another lemon..

Bello
04-29-2011, 19:48
Hate to say i told you so!

fredj338
04-29-2011, 19:49
I am almost afraid to say anything but here it goes anyway.

Every case goes into the shell plate with no drama. Pushing to prime is effortless compared to the LnL. You can see why because the primer punch rises MUCH higher then the primer punch on the LnL. Indexing is smoother and easier to control because you can slow down your movement just as the press indexes rather then the press constantly indexing like on the LnL. I did put the roller bearing setup on the press. I prefer the expanding die on the powder measure as well. There are some things about the LnL I prefer but this press actually works a lot more effortlessly so that is far more important to me. I have not loaded a bunch so I will have to report on that next week. This is the press I should have bought instead of the LnL.
Your just picky Steve. Go back to a Lee & the LNL would seem like the press to own. I love my 650, but I am permanently stained blue.:whistling:

Bob2223
04-29-2011, 19:50
Yes thats all fine and dandy but Dillon wont give you any free bullets! :whistling:







Seriously, glad you have what you wanted.

Keep an update.

Congrats !

Bob

GioaJack
04-29-2011, 19:51
trouble maker, trouble maker!

banish him!!

jbh165nc
04-29-2011, 19:55
I am almost afraid to say anything but here it goes anyway.

Every case goes into the shell plate with no drama. Pushing to prime is effortless compared to the LnL. You can see why because the primer punch rises MUCH higher then the primer punch on the LnL. Indexing is smoother and easier to control because you can slow down your movement just as the press indexes rather then the press constantly indexing like on the LnL. I did put the roller bearing setup on the press. I prefer the expanding die on the powder measure as well. There are some things about the LnL I prefer but this press actually works a lot more effortlessly so that is far more important to me. I have not loaded a bunch so I will have to report on that next week. This is the press I should have bought instead of the LnL.

I have one as well. Pretty awesome if you ask me (although I have nothing to compare it to...this is my one and only press). Everything seems to work as advertised...I probably have just under 10k loaded spread between .40 S&W and 9x19 w/o a major hitch.

My only complaint is that about 1/4 of the spent primers don't get captured in the bin they're supposed to...they end up all over the floor. Seems like a common problem with some easy solutions per my google search.

n2extrm
04-29-2011, 19:59
Steve I knew you would love it! Glad you are happy. I am guessing you will find the speed and convenience of the press well worth the price.

WiskyT
04-29-2011, 20:14
I bet he took it apart with a Stillson wrench because it he was trying to get the indexing perfectly synchronized with a particular point in the ram's travel. It's on the floor in 1,000 pieces and he is too embarrassed to tell us. The proof will be when he shows up at his silly hat tactical match trying to pass off WinUSA ammo as his reloads.

Boxerglocker
04-29-2011, 20:14
Look forward to hearing more, glad your happy thus far.

GioaJack
04-29-2011, 20:27
You won't hear anymore about it this weekend... he's so whipped his wife is making him take her to Breckenridge.

Flatland wussie.


Jack

WiskyT
04-29-2011, 20:35
You won't hear anymore about it this weekend... he's so whipped his wife is making him take her to Breckenridge.

Flatland wussie.


Jack

http://i1228.photobucket.com/albums/ee460/Wiskyt/C4W.jpg

Colorado4Wheel
04-29-2011, 20:37
Best thing about it was I didn't have to fiddle with ANYTHING. Well, I did have to fiddle with the Roller Bearing Upgrade kit at first. I was told I needed to bend the ejector wire. I tried to do it and had a bad case of PTSD. So I took the bottom washer off and it worked with the stock wire. I am sick of fiddling with presses I think.

n2extrm
04-29-2011, 20:59
Best thing about it was I didn't have to fiddle with ANYTHING. Well, I did have to fiddle with the Roller Bearing Upgrade kit at first. I was told I needed to bend the ejector wire. I tried to do it and had a bad case of PTSD. So I took the bottom washer off and it worked with the stock wire. I am sick of fiddling with presses I think.

The only thing I had an issue with was the block for the slider loosened up after a 1K rounds or so. I would give everything a quick retorque after the first few hundred. I did that on the second press and so far so good. Admitedly I have loaded very little on the second press.

sellersm
04-29-2011, 21:11
Nice! Thanks for the quick review.

For the ignorant like me, what's the benefit of the roller bearing upgrade kit?

El_Ron1
04-30-2011, 00:27
You don't see many proper Stillsons anymore.

Boxerglocker
04-30-2011, 01:39
For the ignorant like me, what's the benefit of the roller bearing upgrade kit?

Smooths out the shell plate indexing....

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86570

dudel
04-30-2011, 04:41
Congratulations. I hope it's a LONG term relationship.

shotgunred
04-30-2011, 08:53
The first blush of love is always sweet. Tell us what you think about her in a couple of thousand rounds.

P.S. weren't you going to post the cutout for the primer fix.

Hoser
04-30-2011, 09:48
Life is good.

BENCH
04-30-2011, 11:15
Glad your a happy camper.

I will miss the drama around here for sure.

GioaJack
04-30-2011, 11:18
Life is good.


You only think so because you don't have to put up with you.


Jack

Travclem
04-30-2011, 11:21
I loaded 3000 .45 230gr ball on my xl650 yesterday with no issues. I am glad to have one.

IndyGunFreak
04-30-2011, 12:04
Did the 550 holes work?

D. Manley
04-30-2011, 12:30
This is the press I should have bought instead of the LnL.

:supergrin:

Not intended as a knock on the other brands but there really is a reason why all are compared to Dillon. Congratulations on the new toy Steve, only problem I see is finding sufficient time to shoot to your loading abilities.

Hoser
04-30-2011, 13:15
You only think so because you don't have to put up with you.

Putting up with me must be why my lovely bride drinks alone and cries a lot.

casesensitive
04-30-2011, 16:02
Be careful now. I am very interested in your final evaluation. I just noticed from a thread I ran across doing google searches. It was you, and your LNL praises were quite high originally. I look forward to a review when you have a chance to use it with the dreaded 9mm.

El_Ron1
04-30-2011, 16:14
Which Lee are you going to get if this doesn't pan out?

Boxerglocker
04-30-2011, 16:18
Be careful now. I am very interested in your final evaluation. I just noticed from a thread I ran across doing google searches. It was you, and your LNL praises were quite high originally. I look forward to a review when you have a chance to use it with the dreaded 9mm.

His press is setup for 9mm. He mentioned the fact in a previous thread prior to his XL650 order that it would be primarily 9mm dedicated press.
Steve shoots a G34 in IDPA/USPSA. The vast majority of his loading needs are in 9mm.

casesensitive
04-30-2011, 16:37
His press is setup for 9mm. He mentioned the fact in a previous thread prior to his XL650 order that it would be primarily 9mm dedicated press.
Steve shoots a G34 in IDPA/USPSA. The vast majority of his loading needs are in 9mm. I'm not going to get in an argument, nor call him out. I'm just simply saying. Lets wait and see. He wrote a good review on the LNL with 9MM
to begin with. He said he was quite pleased with it. So lets just give the Dillon the same time frame.

I am just looking for a through opinion before I buy one. I'm sure he'' will have a few things he has issues with. I am not saying that's bad. Nor am I saying LNL are superior. I've already got the LNL. I am waiting to decide if I want the 650 with CF. Or should I just buy the CF for the LNL . Just trying to weigh the pros and the cons.

Since all Dillon spends their time on is presses. I'd be very disappointed if they didn't have a leg up on the competition. They aren't designing many different things like Hornady is. Dillon is a specialty company. Made in America. I've always thought Dillon was a better machine in many respects. However why not keep your eyes open. Along with your mind.

yipchoy
04-30-2011, 17:17
[QUOTE=Colorado4Wheel;.. I was told I needed to bend the ejector wire.
I've put the washer/needlebearing on my 650 but was not aware that the Ejector wire needed to be bent. Could you point me to where I can get more information on this procedure, preferrably with a drawing.
Welcome to the world of the 650.
Alan

Boxerglocker
04-30-2011, 17:23
I've put the washer/needlebearing on my 650 but was not aware that the Ejector wire needed to be bent. Could you point me to where I can get more information on this procedure, preferrably with a drawing.
Welcome to the world of the 650.
Alan

Look at the link I added in the above post. Toward the ending pages you will see pics.

WiskyT
04-30-2011, 17:30
Which Lee are you going to get if this doesn't pan out?

http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/420/420765.jpg

labdwakin
04-30-2011, 17:42
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/420/420765.jpg

Said his next effort would be an RCBS progressive if this thing grenades on him... :needspics: :couch:

XDRoX
04-30-2011, 20:42
Since all Dillon spends their time on is presses. I'd be very disappointed if they didn't have a leg up on the competition...

Not all their time...

http://www.dillonaero.com/uimages/homepage/m134dt_titanium.jpg

http://www.dillonaero.com/uimages/homepage/m134d_steel.jpg

Boxerglocker
04-30-2011, 20:58
<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/MOyt6imlgLo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

When you produce a gun that can fire at that rate. If good to know they also make a press that can feed it's requirements. :cool:

Colorado4Wheel
04-30-2011, 21:01
The first blush of love is always sweet. Tell us what you think about her in a couple of thousand rounds.

P.S. weren't you going to post the cutout for the primer fix.

I need permission from Uncle Bob first.



Did the 550 holes work?

Nope. One did but that was about it.

Be careful now. I am very interested in your final evaluation. I just noticed from a thread I ran across doing google searches. It was you, and your LNL praises were quite high originally. I look forward to a review when you have a chance to use it with the dreaded 9mm.


I'm not going to get in an argument, nor call him out. I'm just simply saying. Lets wait and see. He wrote a good review on the LNL with 9MM
to begin with. He said he was quite pleased with it. So lets just give the Dillon the same time frame.

I am just looking for a through opinion before I buy one. I'm sure he'' will have a few things he has issues with. I am not saying that's bad. Nor am I saying LNL are superior. I've already got the LNL. I am waiting to decide if I want the 650 with CF. Or should I just buy the CF for the LNL . Just trying to weigh the pros and the cons.

Since all Dillon spends their time on is presses. I'd be very disappointed if they didn't have a leg up on the competition. They aren't designing many different things like Hornady is. Dillon is a specialty company. Made in America. I've always thought Dillon was a better machine in many respects. However why not keep your eyes open. Along with your mind.


Yep, I liked the LnL at first. It was not perfect at the start but it's a press that requires a person to get used to the press and how to set it up. Also, I loaded a bunch of rounds with out knowing I was getting high primers. So I gave the press a little of slack because I thought I needed to learn a little more about the press (didn't want to rush to judgment) and I didn't know it was making high primers. At first it didn't bother me as much the cases didn't always go in the shell plate because I honestly thought the "fixes" people posted would solve my problems. But after trying every fix and it not getting good enough I frankly got sick of it. Once I discovered that no matter how hard I pressed I was still getting high primers I pretty much over it and ready to get something reliable again.

unclebob
04-30-2011, 21:12
Steve you have my permission to show all of them if you so desire.

meleors
04-30-2011, 21:13
When you produce a gun that can fire at that rate. If good to know they also make a press that can feed it's requirements. :cool:

Dillon makes the Camdex? :whistling:

unclebob
04-30-2011, 21:16
Look at the link I added in the above post. Toward the ending pages you will see pics.

Do you know how they bent the wire? I have tried a couple of times with no luck. Do you heat it or what?

Boxerglocker
04-30-2011, 21:46
Do you know how they bent the wire? I have tried a couple of times with no luck. Do you heat it or what?

I used the combination of a bench vise and vise grips.

n2extrm
05-01-2011, 08:57
Be careful now. I am very interested in your final evaluation. I just noticed from a thread I ran across doing google searches. It was you, and your LNL praises were quite high originally. I look forward to a review when you have a chance to use it with the dreaded 9mm.

Steve is very analytical, and brutally honest when it comes to his review. Just give it some time. As for the 650 I love mine. I came from a 550 that served me well but I hated the primer system, it always gave me some form of trouble. The 650 has been great out of the box and o
ver the first 8 or so months and lots of loading.I put 2K or so 45s through it in the first month. Would have been more but the wife was due and I did not have time to shoot or reload.

EL_NinO619
05-01-2011, 09:20
I need permission from Uncle Bob first.





Nope. One did but that was about it.







Yep, I liked the LnL at first. It was not perfect at the start but it's a press that requires a person to get used to the press and how to set it up. Also, I loaded a bunch of rounds with out knowing I was getting high primers. So I gave the press a little of slack because I thought I needed to learn a little more about the press (didn't want to rush to judgment) and I didn't know it was making high primers. At first it didn't bother me as much the cases didn't always go in the shell plate because I honestly thought the "fixes" people posted would solve my problems. But after trying every fix and it not getting good enough I frankly got sick of it. Once I discovered that no matter how hard I pressed I was still getting high primers I pretty much over it and ready to get something reliable again.


Steve yesterday I loaded some 9. I wad using wolf primers, but after you asking me to try cci, I went and bought some. Cci on my press where very easy to seat, a lot easier that any othet cal I load. The only problem I haf yesterday was with the small mouth and lee dies, it would snag at first. I polished it with a dremel and it help. I think I still want 9 dillon dies. But as for seating SP CCI I had no problems at all Steve.

Rinspeed
05-01-2011, 12:04
Smooths out the shell plate indexing....

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=86570



Anyone know if adding the roller bearing and washers works as well on the SDB.

Boxerglocker
05-01-2011, 12:47
Anyone know if adding the roller bearing and washers works as well on the SDB.

I ran 2 sdb's at one time. If you could find a bearing that fit, it may work real well. However, the sdb's don't have a set screw to hold the shellplate bolt at the desired torque so it won't hold the desired tension on the shell plate. You could try but honestly after tens of thousands of rounds loading on one. I don't see it happening, unfortunately.

Colorado4Wheel
05-01-2011, 18:38
Loaded some more on it today. Went pretty well. Had one Upside Down Case. It's the same issue I fixed on the LnL rather easily. Besides that it was perfect.

Boxerglocker
05-01-2011, 18:52
Loaded some more on it today. Went pretty well. Had one Upside Down Case. It's the same issue I fixed on the LnL rather easily. Besides that it was perfect.

I have yet to have a upside down case... I've read that the stability of the case feeder is an issue causing it at times...

What do you feel is the cause? What did you do to alleviate the chances of getting them?

Colorado4Wheel
05-01-2011, 20:00
I am going to brace the case feeder first. But Dillon also has a insert used for 380 that takes up some of the space in the chute.

Boxerglocker
05-01-2011, 20:11
I am going to brace the case feeder first. But Dillon also has a insert used for 380 that takes up some of the space in the chute.

I have that .380 case-feeder adapter... never thought of using it to fix that problem, obviously cause I haven't come across it yet.

Just a thought though.... I use the blue case down tube support on mine regardless of the fact that the manual says not needed if running a case feeder. Just perhaps that has something to do with it? The support giving it that even just a little additional support against vibration.
I also try and not load more than 300 or so pieces of 9mm brass at a time by weight. I separate brass lots in a number of plastic cups depending on the length of my intended loading session and the number of primer tubes I have loaded, another factor that may help without me knowing about it.

Colorado4Wheel
05-01-2011, 20:31
Hmm, I did have the bowl over full at the start. Clutch was slipping and everything. That may have been when it went upside down. I am not worried about it. You need to make the 380 adapter a little bigger to use it for 9mm. A overfull bowl could make the thing wiggle more as well.

Boxerglocker
05-01-2011, 20:38
Hmm, I did have the bowl over full at the start. Clutch was slipping and everything. That may have been when it went upside down. I am not worried about it. You need to make the 380 adapter a little bigger to use it for 9mm. A overfull bowl could make the thing wiggle more as well.

That by the sound of it might well be your issue. I've seen pictures of your bench and knowing you built it is solid. The Manual does state:

Note: The casefeed bowl is not designed to be completely filled with brass. If it is fully loaded it will not function reliably.The rated capacity of the casefeeder is about 1/2 of the bowl’s physical capacity.

Colorado4Wheel
05-01-2011, 20:52
Yeah, I dumped a bag in, it was too much. I knew it was but I tried anyway.

fredj338
05-02-2011, 00:36
I have yet to have a upside down case... I've read that the stability of the case feeder is an issue causing it at times...

What do you feel is the cause? What did you do to alleviate the chances of getting them?

I've had one upside down 45acp case in some 2000rds now. I think anything is possible w/ the case feeder. If it happens all the time, it's a problem, if it throws one every few 1000, it' an anomily.:dunno:

Colorado4Wheel
05-05-2011, 19:13
Added a picture of my bullet holder. It's set back a little farther then the Dillon setup with a strong mount. I prefer it like that.

Me new bullet tray/holder.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3507.jpg

Roller bearing mod with only one washer.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3506.jpg

Primer chute mod.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3505.jpg

Brace to wall.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3504.jpg

Spent primer setup.

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3502.jpg

Overview

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r215/98sr20ve/DSC_3503.jpg

n2extrm
05-05-2011, 19:27
Very nice Steve! :wavey: Is the ladder there by chance or to fill the case feeder? I was standing on my stool everytime I filled it. Think I got a feel for it, using a plastic bowl for a WAG as to how much to put in. :supergrin:

GioaJack
05-05-2011, 19:33
You two do realize that we landed on the moon with less complications... don't you?


Jack

Colorado4Wheel
05-05-2011, 19:37
I fill the case feeder with out the ladder. Ladder is there so I can get into the case feeder if needed.

Boxerglocker
05-05-2011, 20:11
I fill the case feeder with out the ladder. Ladder is there so I can get into the case feeder if needed.

I put a little 4 inch diameter convex stick on automotive mirror on the ceiling to keep an eye on the case feeder brass level as I'm loading. :supergrin:

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 06:29
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.

Not having both presses to look at creates questions as to the problem in the first place. Could you elaborate some. Are any of these from the aftermarket guys I asked about in earlier threads?

I'm not trying to start a R vs B war. But I am curious. If both machines need some sort of operator modification. Why is it not considered a problem for both.

Very Nice setup either way. Thanks for the pictures

ron59
05-06-2011, 07:13
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.



The problem is not the "after market fixes". The problem is "not being able to solve a problem either via the factory or a jury rig". With Steve's LNL, he could not get the cases to feed consistently enough for him. And I agree with him... one hang up in 1000 might be acceptable, whereas 3 or 4 per 100 (or more) is not.

IndyGunFreak
05-06-2011, 07:18
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.

Because the 650 "works" fine without the mods... A lot of those things Steve done, are personal preference. The only one of those mods that one might deem absolutely necessary, is the roller bearing, to prevent the shellplate from snapping. I'm fine w/o it. The tube for the spent primers is merely a convenience thing... run a tube to your trash can, and never have to worry about emptying the little cup.

So I'm not really sure where you're coming from to be truthful. The machine will work just fine w/o any of the things he done to it.

The LNL, w/o some of the mods that he apparently done, would not work effectively. Even after the mods he done, there were still issues he could not resolve and apparently Hornady couldn't either.

IGF

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 07:36
On the Hornady you are modifying the press HOPING to get the press to work the way it should work from the factory.

On the 650 you are modifying the press to make it run just a smidgen nicer.

Bearing is nice but not needed. It cost under $10 so it's not exactly a expensive thing. For some people the bearing lets them load really full cases faster. I did a run of 100 the other night. 5 mins. No issues. Even if my LnL was priming properly it would never be able to load that fast with out breaking something.

Spent primer catcher on my 650 was about as good as my 550 one. Not perfect but not horrible. If your judge of a press is how well it catch's a primer then you need some new priorities.

The only "Mod" I would not want to live without is the little plastic tube over the unused primer catcher. That was so easy but really works and I needed.

When you try and load fast on a LnL and the case does not go into the shell plate all the way you will crush that case under the sizer die and start breaking decapping pins. It will happen. Your only good option is to go slow enough so that you can watch cases go into the shell plate, also watch for powder and also seat a bullet. 650 lets you just pull the handle and not watch station 1 because the case is much better guided into the shell plate and much better supported as it goes to the shell plate.

In a nutshell, 650 is a production machine. I really see the LnL as more of a Hobbyist machine. That's the difference in engineering that has gone into the machines. Later I will post pictures in another thread about each machine showing the difference in quality of engineering. LnL does have some nice features and it's cheaper. But from a production machine standpoint it's just not as good. Because of the design of the 650 it's a little harder to do some things on it then on a LnL. That is just the way it is. I will take over engineering on the 650 over the simplicity of the LnL because the 650 works just as good the harder you push it. LnL doesn't. Keep in mind, Having barely set the 650 up I was loading 100 rds in 5 mins on my 650. My LnL couldn't do that after 5 months of tinkering. Every time I tried to load faster then I could on my 550 with out a case feeder it would choke and something would break. None of this has anything to do with the priming issue. I am just talking about the case feeder and the design of that setup as a whole.

Keep in mind the user criteria determines their satisfaction with their press based on their personal expectations. I was talking with someone on another forum about the 650/LnL/550 and he basically said he could load 100 rds in 9 mins easily. So he was happy. I can see that 100 %. At that pace I can fix the odd case (2-100) that don't do the right thing and not have it be a big issue. But you are watching a bunch of different things. I expect a case feed press to load just as reliably as my 550 running at 8 mins per 100 rds but also be able to crank out 100 rds in about 6 mins easy enough. That is my criteria. You don't always know peoples perspective when you talk about these things on a forum. Never mind people lie.

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 07:49
Because the 650 "works" fine without the mods... A lot of those things Steve done, are personal preference. The only one of those mods that one might deem absolutely necessary, is the roller bearing, to prevent the shellplate from snapping. I'm fine w/o it. The tube for the spent primers is merely a convenience thing... run a tube to your trash can, and never have to worry about emptying the little cup.

So I'm not really sure where you're coming from to be truthful. The machine will work just fine w/o any of the things he done to it.

The LNL, w/o some of the mods that he apparently done, would not work effectively. Even after the mods he done, there were still issues he could not resolve and apparently Hornady couldn't either.

IGF First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 07:53
On the Hornady you are modifying the press HOPING to get the press to work the way it should work from the factory.

On the 650 you are modifying the press to make it run just a smidgen nicer.

Bearing is nice but not needed. It cost under $10 so it's not exactly a expensive thing. For some people the bearing lets them load really full cases faster. I did a run of 100 the other night. 5 mins. No issues. Even if my LnL was priming properly it would never be able to load that fast with out breaking something.

Spent primer catcher on my 650 was about as good as my 550 one. Not perfect but not horrible. If your judge of a press is how well it catch's a primer then you need some new priorities.

The only "Mod" I would not want to live without is the little plastic tube over the unused primer catcher. That was so easy but really works and I needed.

When you try and load fast on a LnL and the case does not go into the shell plate all the way you will crush that case under the sizer die and start breaking decapping pins. It will happen. Your only good option is to go slow enough so that you can watch cases go into the shell plate, also watch for powder and also seat a bullet. 650 lets you just pull the handle and not watch station 1 because the case is much better guided into the shell plate and much better supported as it goes to the shell plate.

In a nutshell, 650 is a production machine. I really see the LnL as more of a Hobbyist machine. That's the difference in engineering that has gone into the machines. Later I will post pictures in another thread about each machine showing the difference in quality of engineering. LnL does have some nice features and it's cheaper. But from a production machine standpoint it's just not as good. Because of the design of the 650 it's a little harder to do some things on it then on a LnL. That is just the way it is. I will take over engineering on the 650 over the simplicity of the LnL because the 650 works just as good the harder you push it. LnL doesn't. Keep in mind, Having barely set the 650 up I was loading 100 rds in 5 mins on my 650. My LnL couldn't do that after 5 months of tinkering. Every time I tried to load faster then I could on my 550 with out a case feeder it would choke and something would break. None of this has anything to do with the priming issue. I am just talking about the case feeder and the design of that setup as a whole.

Keep in mind the user criteria determines their satisfaction with their press based on their personal expectations. I was talking with someone on another forum about the 650/LnL/550 and he basically said he could load 100 rds in 9 mins easily. So he was happy. I can see that 100 %. At that pace I can fix the odd case (2-100) that don't do the right thing and not have it be a big issue. But you are watching a bunch of different things. I expect a case feed press to load just as reliably as my 550 running at 8 mins per 100 rds but also be able to crank out 100 rds in about 6 mins easy enough. That is my criteria. You don't always know peoples perspective when you talk about these things on a forum. Never mind people lie. Thaaaank You!!! That was a very good answer. I look forward to the pictures. Take care.

IndyGunFreak
05-06-2011, 07:55
First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.

Wasn't defensive at all, it was just an observation of reading his posts. None of those mods *have* to be done to make the machine work properly.

Best of luck on your decision.

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 07:59
First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.

Something was wrong with the priming on my press. On the other hand the case feeder was really no different then many others. I don't know if Bob2223 post about modding the slider is still around but my issues with the slider are common for a lot of people on the LnL. Just look around.

You have the total wrong impression on the 650 slinging powder issue. Keep in mind 5 mins per hundred is not fast for a 650. Some people are loading well under that with a bullet feeder or auto drive. You can easily control the speed of indexing on the 650 by just not pushing so fast in that part of the handle stroke. LnL has the same issue. But it's not solvable because the LnL is always indexing.

If you care this much about the research of the press you really should just get the 650. If this stuff is that important to you the safe choice is clearly Blue.

casesensitive
05-06-2011, 08:06
Something was wrong with the priming on my press. On the other hand the case feeder was really no different then many others. I don't know if Bob2223 post about modding the slider is still around but my issues with the slider are common for a lot of people on the LnL. Just look around.

You have the total wrong impression on the 650 slinging powder issue. Keep in mind 5 mins per hundred is not fast for a 650. Some people are loading well under that with a bullet feeder or auto drive. You can easily control the speed of indexing on the 650 by just not pushing so fast in that part of the handle stroke. LnL has the same issue. But it's not solvable because the LnL is always indexing.

If you care this much about the research of the press you really should just get the 650. If this stuff is that important to you the safe choice is clearly Blue.Thanks for the decent replies. I should probably stick in one thread. You answered most of this already. Thanks I more than likely will get the 650. Owning one will make your pictures more readily understandable. Was your spent primer fix helpful from the dirt issue I read about with Dillons?

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 08:08
Yep, and I responded to the other.

sellersm
05-06-2011, 12:11
In a nutshell, 650 is a production machine. I really see the LnL as more of a Hobbyist machine. That's the difference in engineering that has gone into the machines.

That's a great summary statement of the issue for me! Do I want a hobbyist or production machine?

Thanks Steve for that concise and well articulated summary!

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 12:40
That's a great summary statement of the issue for me! Do I want a hobbyist or production machine?

Thanks Steve for that concise and well articulated summary!

I think.you should sell me your LCT and get a 1050. ;)

sellersm
05-06-2011, 13:37
I think.you should sell me your LCT and get a 1050. ;)

Sure, the price of the LCT for you is only $1050! And no, you can't use your MidwayUSA birthday discount! :tongueout:

Boxerglocker
05-06-2011, 14:14
I will take over engineering on the 650 over the simplicity of the LnL because the 650 works just as good the harder you push it. LnL doesn't. Keep in mind, Having barely set the 650 up I was loading 100 rds in 5 mins on my 650. My LnL couldn't do that after 5 months of tinkering. Every time I tried to load faster then I could on my 550 with out a case feeder it would choke and something would break. None of this has anything to do with the priming issue. I am just talking about the case feeder and the design of that setup as a whole.


Have you broken 5 minutes a hundred yet? :rofl:

I have once or twice just for kicks.... it's ridiculous isn't it?

I wanted to test the RT1200 trimmer and the load rate yesterday, 300 cases sized and trimmed to case gauge perfection in 10 minutes.

labdwakin
05-06-2011, 15:42
Have you broken 5 minutes a hundred yet? :rofl:

I have once or twice just for kicks.... it's ridiculous isn't it?

I wanted to test the RT1200 trimmer and the load rate yesterday, 300 cases sized and trimmed to case gauge perfection in 10 minutes.


Dang! that's almost 2000 per hour!

Boxerglocker
05-06-2011, 15:59
Dang! that's almost 2000 per hour!

I know it's crazy... I was trying out Dillon lube for the first time rather than HOS. The Dillon lube is probably a little slicker, but I like the way HOS dries not as oily as the Dillon lube. I wouldn't normally do it that fast but just wanted to see if it could be done.

Colorado4Wheel
05-06-2011, 18:17
Have you broken 5 minutes a hundred yet? :rofl:

I have once or twice just for kicks.... it's ridiculous isn't it?

I wanted to test the RT1200 trimmer and the load rate yesterday, 300 cases sized and trimmed to case gauge perfection in 10 minutes.

5 mins was pretty easy when you consider I just got the ergonomics of my bench setup for the 650 and have barely got tuned in to the press at all.

n2extrm
05-06-2011, 18:34
Apparently what I said before the other day is gone. C4W: I see the modifications that have been done to make the Dillon work more effectively. When you made modifications to your LNL they were viewed as flaws in the LNL design. Why not the same viewpoint with the Dillon. Is there something I am missing? Both machines seem to need after market fixes of some sort.

Not having both presses to look at creates questions as to the problem in the first place. Could you elaborate some. Are any of these from the aftermarket guys I asked about in earlier threads?

I'm not trying to start a R vs B war. But I am curious. If both machines need some sort of operator modification. Why is it not considered a problem for both.

Very Nice setup either way. Thanks for the pictures

First, where I am going is trying to find answers to make a purchase. I'm not sure what Steve's press has to do with it. It's already been decided it was a lemon. Who knows what caused his problem. Maybe the mold itself was off on his press. The bias that most of these question get answered with doesn't answer anything. I would think a press that throws power all over has an issue. If a lay person can jury rig it. Why doesn't Dillon fix it? I'm not trying to find fault with it. I'm asking because if I buy it. I'd like to know ahead of time what the problems are. Since I don't have a local source to look at a Dillon. I have to resort to asking things so I can imagine what is happening. It's somewhat counter productive that the answers come in a defensive format. I'm not asking you to defend your purchase. I would guess I am somewhat like Steve. If it can't be perfect fine. But if it can. I want to know how to get it there. Can't be much clearer than that.

Casesensitive,

I have two 650s basically as they came out of the box, the only mod or add on is the roller handle. I love the press and have no real issues, and as other have said the mods aren't really required to get it to run. I had a 550 before the 650 and still have my RC. I love the 650, the loading rate and smooth operation make it a pleasure to load on.

I did look at the LNL before I bought the 650, Steve and I actually talked about it a couple of times. After seeing what Steve did not like about the LNL I do not regret my purchase. Little things like the case locater buttons, the case insertion all add up to better function in my opinion. Yes it adds expense to the caliber conversions, but the cost has a benefit in reliable operation. Again MHO obviously.

The spilled powder is a little exaggerated, and you may loose a primer on the ski ramp or from the spent primer can. In the end the 650 makes alot of high quality ammo in a short amount of time. That is what it's job really is, isn't it? :dunno: