Wasn't paying attention... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Billy_Ray
05-01-2011, 11:52
Well like most inexperienced reloaders I wasn't paying attention when I was putting together my latest batch of test loads. I misread the label for bullet weight and loaded the wrong weights Any advice would be appreciated...

I put together 4 loads of 10 rounds each with mixed cases, wolf spp, 124 Montanta Gold fmj bullets and HP-38. I loaded each of the four tests to 1.130. The charges were as follows 4.5, 4.7, 4.9 and 5.1 grains. I have not fired any of these yet and I am concerned about the top two sets at 4.9 and 5.1 grains. Hodgdon's online site says to load to 1.09 COAL and max load at 4.8 grains. So can I fire off the 4.9 and 5.1 sets or should I take them apart?

Before anyone asks I do have reloading manual and I have read them, but in the midst of putting together several sets of test bullets I misread the information. I would have had my butler do it as Jack might suggest but he was off yesterday.

Thank you for the help,
Billy Ray

albyihat
05-01-2011, 12:17
Well first of all I would shoot off the 4.5 and 4.7gr loads. See how they perform in your gun, do they show signs of pressure, what do they chrono at? Then you can make the decision to shoot or not to shoot the 4.9 and 5.1gr loads. When you begin to approach the top end each load becomes gun specific. A top end load in one gun that shows high pressure signs may show no signs of high pressure in another gun. Worst case is you pull 20rds at least it is not 200.

fredj338
05-01-2011, 12:21
Well you actually have a couple of issues:
The Sierra 125grFMJ is not identical to the MG 124gr, close, but not the same. Then of course you used 115gr data for 124gr bullets. Will they be safe, your gun is diff than mine. The longer OAL helps, but I would view the 4.7gr charge as pushing max. Would I shoot the ones that are well over max published data, no. At least you loaded in small lots, pulling down 20rds is just a good reminder to pay attention to detail. Ultimately, that is what reloading safely is all about, paying attention to small details.
See how they perform in your gun, do they show signs of pressure, what do they chrono at? Then you can make the decision to shoot or not to shoot the 4.9 and 5.1gr loads.
Keep in mind, especially w/ small volumn/high pressure rounds, pressure increases are not linear, especially w/ faster powders. What looks fine at max may be push pressure vertical when adding 0.2gr more powder or seating 0.05" deeper. Yes, W231/HP38 is at the slow end of "fast burners", more forgiving than say Clays or TG, but still fast.

glocknick
05-01-2011, 12:59
i would pull the 4.9 and 5.1 g rounds and reduce the charge.

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 13:06
I would look for a manual that shows 5.1 of 231 with a 124, then shoot them. Hodgdon's data is so pathetic these days I wouldn't use them as much of an authority on anything. You gotta love their 18kpsi 38 +P loads:upeyes:

sig357fan
05-01-2011, 13:07
I would have to ask my self if shooting 20 rounds that MAY be Hazardous is worth my firearm…..hand.….eye?

Always error on the safe side,

pull the bullets.

sig357fan

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 13:15
Speer #11 shows 5.0 125jsp

Handloader134 shows 5.0 with a 130 grain fmj

handloader97 shows 5.2 with a 125jsp

P+P
05-01-2011, 15:07
run a search for images "Revolver went kaboom" I'd say none of these were done intentionally .
Someone "Wasn't paying attention." and this was the result....
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1462&bih=806&q=revolver+went+kaboom&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

fredj338
05-01-2011, 15:08
Speer #11 shows 5.0 125jsp

Handloader134 shows 5.0 with a 130 grain fmj

handloader97 shows 5.2 with a 125jsp
Again, what OAL, what bullet, what testing platform etc. Plus, current W231 is not the same as old W231 & same for HP38. They are now being manuf as the same powder so did they change one or both to get that? Old data is for old powder in most cases.

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 15:14
Again, what OAL, what bullet, what testing platform etc. Plus, current W231 is not the same as old W231 & same for HP38. They are now being manuf as the same powder so did they change one or both to get that? Old data is for old powder in most cases.


That's the beauty of it. It's an old system. You start with a reduced charge (like the OP), work up in small increments (like the OP) and then it doesn't matter who made the bullet or what the OAL is (within reason), if it's good then it's, well, good.

It wasn't until recently that everyone got so hung up on bullet brand and type. Most old manuals list say a 124 FMJ for the data, and at the botoom of the data also say "Can be used with 124 JHP".

P+P
05-01-2011, 15:16
run a search for images "Revolver went kaboom" I'd say none of these were done intentionally .
Someone "Wasn't paying attention." and this was the result....
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1462&bih=806&q=revolver+went+kaboom&btnG=Search+Images&gbv=2&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

Of course your results may vary please stick to max data as MAX !!! at least until you gain enough experence to know the answer to your qustion with out having to ask....

fredj338
05-01-2011, 15:19
That's the beauty of it. It's an old system. You start with a reduced charge (like the OP), work up in small increments (like the OP) and then it doesn't matter who made the bullet or what the OAL is (within reason), if it's good then it's, well, good.

It wasn't until recently that everyone got so hung up on bullet brand and type. Most old manuals list say a 124 FMJ for the data, and at the botoom of the data also say "Can be used with 124 JHP".
Most old data did not mention OAL either. Again, w/ pressure testing being better, the importance of OAL & pressures has come to light & only old foolsih reloaders would ignore that. You are not foolish.:supergrin: Plug & paly does not really apply to reloading IMO. Yes yo ucan get away with it, choose the wrong powder & cartirdge & it will eventually bite you. Rounds like the 40 are not very foregiving to poor subsitutions. It's gotta be the most often KB round going.

WiskyT
05-01-2011, 15:27
Most old data did not mention OAL either. Again, w/ pressure testing being better, the importance of OAL & pressures has come to light & only old foolsih reloaders would ignore that. You are not foolish.:supergrin: Plug & paly does not really apply to reloading IMO. Yes yo ucan get away with it, choose the wrong powder & cartirdge & it will eventually bite you. Rounds like the 40 are not very foregiving to poor subsitutions. It's gotta be the most often KB round going.

The pressure equipment is no better now than it was in when most of the older data was generated.

P+P
05-01-2011, 15:30
The pressure equipment is no better now than it was in when most of the older data was generated.

True but 40 s&w didn't exist back then

44terryberry
05-01-2011, 15:30
"When in doubt,throw `em out!"

meleors
05-01-2011, 20:46
YMMV, in my personal load data for 124FMJ RN @ 1.140, 5.0gr w/HP-38 was a HOT load!
4.6gr was right on for my Glock 17.

fredj338
05-01-2011, 23:39
The pressure equipment is no better now than it was in when most of the older data was generated.
It actually is. Back in the day it was CUP, never a really exact sciend. Today it's pressure transducers & strain gauges giving psi, more precise, so I stand by that earlier post.

Billy_Ray
05-05-2011, 20:46
I updated before but it was lost with the hacking, so I thought I would repost my update.

During my trip to the rantge, I decided that it was safer to not shoot off the 4.9or 5.1 gr rounds of HP38 although I did not see any signs of pressure for teh 4.7 grain loads.

I will be pulling the 20 bullets and be more careful with my recipies in the future.

Thank you for everyone who chimed in,
Billy Ray