Is the AR our 'national weapon'? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 14:01
Middle Eastern countries, and the former Soviet communist bloc in general, use the AK-47 as a symbol of independence, rebellion, liberation, etc.

Mozambique even figures the AK in thier national flag- a symbol of people liberating themselves from oppressive governments and taking control of their fate through arms, I guess.

Would you say the AR-15 has similar significance to the United States? Can it be called our national weapon?

It certainly symbolizes American military might and technological progress vis-a-vis the oppressive and backwards dictatorships that we often fight against, but does it hold the same symbolic significance in the West that the AK holds for the Middle East and former Soviet regime?

What if we put it on OUR national flag (or should that be the 1911 or Colt SAA)?

BBJones
05-12-2011, 14:34
No it does not hold the same significance in our society. No we should not put it on our flag.

IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 14:46
No it does not hold the same significance in our society. No we should not put it on our flag.

Would you say your membership in the Kalashnikov club in any way influences your answer? :treadmill:

M&P15T
05-12-2011, 14:52
Our flag is not to be changed, IMHO. However, the AR is definitely our national rifle.

Jack Black
05-12-2011, 14:56
I think if I had to pick a rifle to symbolize America it would be the M1 Garand because of it's impact in WWII. General Patton called it the greatest battle implement ever devised.

RyanNREMTP
05-12-2011, 15:06
Depends on which era of American history you are talking about.

faawrenchbndr
05-12-2011, 15:08
I think if I had to pick a rifle to symbolize America it would be the M1 Garand because of it's impact in WWII. General Patton called it the greatest battle implement ever devised.

This,.......x3! :patriot:

IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 15:12
I think if I had to pick a rifle to symbolize America it would be the M1 Garand because of it's impact in WWII. General Patton called it the greatest battle implement ever devised.

He did say that... but only because he never lived to behold an AR-15. :cool:

JBnTX
05-12-2011, 15:18
The M1 Garand saw this country through far darker times than any AR-15 has.

Today in war we may have reports of 2 or 3 soldiers being killed in one day.
In WWII casuality reports numbered in the thousands, and sometimes in tens of thousands.

The M1 Garand saved not only this country but the entire world.

K. Foster
05-12-2011, 15:18
The 2nd amendment is our “national weapon”.

Jack Black
05-12-2011, 15:21
He did say that... but only because he never lived to behold an AR-15. :cool:

Think about why you said those other countries revere the AK. It's not because it's the most advanced weapon they've used, or even because it's their current issued service rifle. (I believe Russia has moved on to the AK-74.) It's because of what it means historically, as you say, "a symbol of independence, rebellion, liberation, etc." The Garand was used during the greatest conflict in which the U.S. has been involved. The M16 has been used longer by the US, but not in any conflict nearing the significance of WWII.

IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 15:26
The M1 Garand saw this country through far darker times than any AR-15 has.

Today in war we may have reports of 2 or 3 soldiers being killed in one day.
In WWII casuality reports numbered in the thousands, and sometimes in tens of thousands.

The M1 Garand saved not only this country but the entire world.

Doesn't that mean that the AR is a better weapon than the M1, since less people have died during its reign?

Just sayin'.

joecoastie
05-12-2011, 15:38
Doesn't that mean that the AR is a better weapon than the M1, since less people have died during its reign?

Just sayin'.

I think his point is that World War 2 was a fight for the survival of our way of life, more so than the wars that the M16 has been involved in. This doesn't mean that the M1 is "better" just that from a certain perspective it makes the M1 more powerful as a symbol.

nastytrigger
05-12-2011, 16:02
http://i29.tinypic.com/dddgyc.jpg

glock_19guy1983
05-12-2011, 16:05
I would go with the Winchester '73 as our national rifle.

M&P15T
05-12-2011, 16:07
Service span of the Garand? 15 or so years?

Service span of the M16/M4/AR15? 40+ years.

nastytrigger
05-12-2011, 16:26
It's sort of a hard choice to pick a national weapon... Garand is up there, AR too, but maybe it should be a Remington 700 or 870? Maybe .22LR?

I'm voting the 1911 :supergrin:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/sv1cec/reviews/ColtO1918/Picture004.jpg

RMTactical
05-12-2011, 16:27
Our flag is not to be changed, IMHO. However, the AR is definitely our national rifle.

Agreed. At least for now.

faawrenchbndr
05-12-2011, 17:26
Service span of the Garand? 15 or so years?

Service span of the M16/M4/AR15? 40+ years.

It's OPINIONS,....not a debate or an argument!
The M1 Garand accomplished a hell of a lot more than the AR has!

Sr. Bang Bang
05-12-2011, 17:33
Unfortunately, I would have to say that our nations most devastating, powerful, and lately most efficient weapon, is the liberal voice.

it haunts my dreams.

On a strictly firearms-based poll, I would have to say that the M16 would take the cake, just because of its' longevity and success with our military's history. Though I would love to own an M14 or and M1 Garand. (and I will someday)

jrs93accord
05-12-2011, 17:41
The M1 Garand does have its place in history as one of the finest battle implements ever made. It served for a little over two decades as a battle rifle.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/DSC00297.jpg


The M16/AR15 has also earned itself a place in the American spotlight. In service for over 40 years, it is still serving our nations military and law enforcement.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/DSC00396.jpg

While the M1 Garand holds a special place in my heart and my collection, the M16/AR15 is by far my favorite platform. I believe that it is a weapon that would represent America today.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/jamesrea_2006/jamesrea2010/001-28.jpg

Ruggles
05-12-2011, 17:44
He did say that... but only because he never lived to behold an AR-15. :cool:

I agree, he would have chosen the M16 over the M1 for sure, hell the little M1 carbine was very popular with WWII troops, some who preferred it to the Garand. The Garand was a hell of a rifle but it is not more significant in US history than the M16 :wavey:

The M16 is as much a "rifle" symbol as any other rifle in our history so I would be fine with calling it that.

Not on the flag under any circumstances. :wow:

The AK due to it distribution to every peasant in the third world by the former USSR is more of the "peoples" rifle than the symbol of any particular country in my mind. :)

JK-linux
05-12-2011, 17:54
.....

Kansas Slim
05-12-2011, 18:06
It would have to be the 1911. That weapon cemented this great country as the Superpower that we are today. It created who we are as a country just as the AK created the Soviet Union.

IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 18:06
I suppose we'll have to wait and see what kind of weapon carries the day when the dust settles from WWIII.

If there's any place for the dust to settle, of course.

:toilet:

Ruggles
05-12-2011, 18:07
I'd say that when I see a guy in the news toting an M16, my first thought is "good guy" or "American". So yes, I'd consider it our current national rifle. The Garand was the same back in it's time. I don't see many today deployed anywhere, so I wouldn't consider it the current "national rifle". Sort of like I associated the Brits with the L1A1 (FAL), but now associate them with the L85. You see it, you think Brit. You see an Uzi, you think Israeli. You see an Armalite AR-18, you think IRA or Ireland. And, when you see an AR-15, you think American.

Good point, they are symbolic in that way for sure.

jrs93accord
05-12-2011, 18:53
It would have to be the 1911. That weapon cemented this great country as the Superpower that we are today. It created who we are as a country just as the AK created the Soviet Union.

The 1911 is definitely due an honorable mention. It is near and dear to my heart as well.

M&P15T
05-12-2011, 19:16
It's OPINIONS,....not a debate or an argument!
The M1 Garand accomplished a hell of a lot more than the AR has!


O.k., that's not weird.:shocked:

fuzzy03cls
05-12-2011, 19:44
1911 followed by the M16. Any foreigner I know can instantly think of America when seeing or hearing these 2 talked about.

IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 20:29
1911 followed by the M16. Any foreigner I know can instantly think of America when seeing or hearing these 2 talked about.

I gotta say, in my mind it would be a toss-up between the 1911 and the AR-15. They're both as American as baseball and apple pie.

I will let you guys know when I decide what the Ultimate Quintissential American Weapon is.

:whip:

Reb 56
05-12-2011, 20:53
As far as I know we have never won a major conflict since the M16 was introduced.

IndianaMatt
05-12-2011, 21:13
As far as I know we have never won a major conflict since the M16 was introduced.

Wow. This is actually an excellent point. And true, also.

Ruggles
05-12-2011, 21:22
As far as I know we have never won a major conflict since the M16 was introduced.

Our involvement in the Middle East over the last 20 years is fairly major both in scope and in significance IMO. In fact the entire run of the cold war from the late 1960s until the fall of the USSR in the late 1980s was under the "watch" of the M16.

I would say they both resulted in victories and both were won since the M16 was adopted.

It has not won anything on the scale of WWII, but then again we have not had anything on that scale either.

As much as I love the 1911 platform I still think America is a country of riflemen and thus our national symbolic weapon needs to be a rifle. I am good with either the M1 or the M16 myself, I think the M16/AR15 is so widespread these days in both military, LE and civilian hands that is wins by default. :dunno:

BBJones
05-12-2011, 21:32
Would you say your membership in the Kalashnikov club in any way influences your answer? :treadmill:

No I say that because I am not a retard who proposes we change our flag. I also say that because this country's greatest attribute is FREEDOM, not might makes right. Countries that deify weapons are backwards.

Ruggles
05-12-2011, 21:43
No I say that because I am not a retard who proposes we change our flag. I also say that because this country's greatest attribute is FREEDOM, not might makes right. Countries that deify weapons are backwards.

No doubt, if we are gonna put a weapon on our flag it's gonna be a image of Chuck Norris baby! :tongueout:

JK-linux
05-12-2011, 22:04
I'd call WWII a tie. We beat the Nazis, but gained the UN and Soros. ;)

m2hmghb
05-12-2011, 22:09
Technically the M1 is still used today. The M14 is a direct descendant of the M1 Garand, kind of like the M1911A1 is a direct descendant of the M1911. The gas system was improved and optimized and the 8 round en bloc clip was replaced by the 20 round magazine.

BlackPaladin
05-13-2011, 02:13
I gotta say, in my mind it would be a toss-up between the 1911 and the AR-15. They're both as American as baseball and apple pie.

I will let you guys know when I decide what the Ultimate Quintissential American Weapon is.

:whip:

Yeah, let us know what YOU decide, as if anyone cares. Save it for your school debate project .

brisk21
05-13-2011, 21:28
Id say if we were to have a "national weapon" it would be the M-16. Its whats been used by most of our troops for many decades and it is the number one selling rifle in the U.S. for a reason. If I could take only one weapon into battle, the M-16 would be it.

MrMurphy
05-14-2011, 00:17
I wouldn't blame the war-winning on the weapon, as those are political decisions (if we had been willing to accept the political realities, Vietnam would have ended in a year or two, but it wasn't going to happen).

While the Garand is certainly an "American" weapon, it has served elsewhere (Italy, Denmark, Korea). Not quite to the level of the AK for some places, but the M16, 1911 and Garand for older generations=American to anyone in the world. While some M16s are being used by the other side, generally speaking seeing someone with an M16 pattern rifle will identify they as Western or American to anyone who sees it.

Aurora
05-14-2011, 01:27
As far as I know we have never won a major conflict since the M16 was introduced.

Most of the wars, police actions and conflicts we've been involved in are a lot different than WWII.

More importantly, we haven't gone up against a competent, determined enemy since we faced the NVA. Most of our opponents don't even know how to use iron sights. A person cannot draw certain types of conclusions under those conditions, at least with any credibility.

V.

Reb 56
05-14-2011, 18:41
I agree that every Military conflict since WW 2 has been mismanaged by Politicians, thats why we have been in Iraq and Afganistan for 10 yrs.
Still like the M1 Garand because it reminds me how things used to be. Afterall we fought 2 formidable Military powers and defeated them both in 4 yrs.

MeefZah
05-15-2011, 11:39
I'd say that when I see a guy in the news toting an M16, my first thought is "good guy" or "American". So yes, I'd consider it our current national rifle. The Garand was the same back in it's time. I don't see many today deployed anywhere, so I wouldn't consider it the current "national rifle". Sort of like I associated the Brits with the L1A1 (FAL), but now associate them with the L85. You see it, you think Brit. You see an Uzi, you think Israeli. You see an Armalite AR-18, you think IRA or Ireland. And, when you see an AR-15, you think American.


Yep, I agree!




--




http://i29.tinypic.com/dddgyc.jpg

Bro, you need to rock an iron! :shocked:

:rofl:

Gator Monroe
05-15-2011, 13:19
Replace the "Come & Take it" Rifle with an M16A1

nastytrigger
05-15-2011, 16:10
Bro, you need to rock an iron! :shocked:

:rofl:

My cat takes forever...
http://www.fugly.com/media/IMAGES/Random/ironing_cat.jpg

Spiffums
05-16-2011, 15:46
Name one super power that has a gun on it's flag? The nations with these gun flags are banana republics that use the gun to show force.

nastytrigger
05-16-2011, 16:13
Found another pic I like :supergrin::

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e362/st33ve0/GunFlag.jpg