Constitutional Carry The Smarter Fiscal Choice (WI) -opinion piece [Archive] - Glock Talk

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TBO
05-19-2011, 20:32
http://www.ammoland.com/2011/05/19/constitutional-carry-the-smarter-fiscal-choice/

golls17
05-20-2011, 16:57
Smarter fiscally for those who want to carry? Yes.

I'm no accountant, but it makes sense to me that a reasonably priced permit system would bring revenue into the state.

If I remember right, the total cost for a permit and background in WI (in the bills requiring a permit) would be under $100. While some will cry foul, I think that's a reasonable price if a permitted system passes. Of course, if training is required, that cost would likely be at the whim of the instructors.

IndyGunFreak
05-20-2011, 17:35
Smarter fiscally for those who want to carry? Yes.

I'm no accountant, but it makes sense to me that a reasonably priced permit system would bring revenue into the state.

If I remember right, the total cost for a permit and background in WI (in the bills requiring a permit) would be under $100. While some will cry foul, I think that's a reasonable price if a permitted system passes. Of course, if training is required, that cost would likely be at the whim of the instructors.

I dunno... IMO, the writer has a point.. First, very very rarely is CCW a profitable thing for the state (and frankly, it shouldn't be). It costs them far more in employee salaries, benefits, etc. than they could charge for a permit. Otherwise, you'd be chucking out probably close to 3-400 just for the permit. Honestly, I would be surprised if most municipalities break even on issuing permits, let alone making money. Indiana, probably has more license holders than quite a few other states (as of a few years ago, it was just over 300k, given politics, etc.. that number has almost certainly went up)... In Indiana our 4yr permit runs a total of about 40 dollars, part goes to the county, part goes to the state. A few years ago, they came out with a "Lifetime Option" that was either $75(if renewing a 4yr permit to lifetime) or $130, if it was a new issue. If CCW's were really this huge revenue stream, the state would have never cut it off..

Constitutional carry, brings with it no added costs, other than standard continuing training for WI LE agencies....

It's an interesting position the writer has, especially given the economic crisis in WI right now. I think from a fiscal standpoint, there's a very good case for constitutional carry. That said, the "ninnies" in WI, KNOW concealed carry is going to pass in some form or another, and they'll be pushing hard for a permit system.

IGF

vista461
05-20-2011, 20:42
I'm more a permit system with training mostly for reciprocity sake. Not a many if any states will have recprocity with a state with no training standard at all. I don't want to get multiple state permits either.

And why hasn't Open Carry, that we have, prevented this? :whistling:

IndyGunFreak
05-20-2011, 21:00
I'm more a permit system with training mostly for reciprocity sake. Not a many if any states will have recprocity with a state with no training standard at all. I don't want to get multiple state permits either.

And why hasn't Open Carry, that we have, prevented this? :whistling:

If you want reciprocity, you can get a Non-Res permit from Florida, or Utah (for the time being)

IGF

vista461
05-20-2011, 21:42
If you want reciprocity, you can get a Non-Res permit from Florida, or Utah (for the time being)

IGF

Exactly what I don't want to have to do. Besides I've read that some states only have reciprosity with the residents of the state not out of state permit holders.

sourdough44
05-22-2011, 02:47
As in MI, which doesn't recognize a FL non-res permit.

IndyGunFreak
05-22-2011, 07:15
Exactly what I don't want to have to do. Besides I've read that some states only have reciprosity with the residents of the state not out of state permit holders.

Some, yes... Michigan, Colorado, and a couple others only recognize Resident permits.. but who's to say the state you plan on traveling to, would recognize a WI permit? You're simply assuming they would.

How often do you travel out of state? Reciprocity, while nice, *most* people may take advantage of it for only short periods, 1-2x a year.

Constitutional carry would be easier.. If reciprocity is that important to you, get a Florida Non-Res, and only go places where it is recognized.

IGF

A6Gator
05-22-2011, 10:51
Smarter fiscally for those who want to carry? Yes.

I'm no accountant, but it makes sense to me that a reasonably priced permit system would bring revenue into the state.

With constitutional carry, there's no permit tax. Besides, if we get constitutional carry, what other parts of the Constitution will the gov't have to pay attention to... What's next, Article I, Section 8?

vista461
05-24-2011, 22:30
Looks like we may get a Hybrid

Gunnut 45/454
05-25-2011, 08:45
Constitutional carry is the best way to go as it get all Government out of the exersise of the right to carry as you please! The way it should be! Training is a personal chioce! And shouldn't be a requirement to carry! As normal we see the Police Cheif 's trying to restrict a right, they don't need to know who carries or why! :steamed:

IndyGunFreak
05-26-2011, 05:20
Looks like we may get a Hybrid

http://www.jsonline.com/news/statepolitics/122477164.html

You haven't read Glocktalks Copyright policy lately have you?

I'd do some editing before the infractions commence.. :)

IGF

rfb45colt
05-26-2011, 20:49
Some, yes... Michigan, Colorado, and a couple others only recognize Resident permits.. but who's to say the state you plan on traveling to, would recognize a WI permit? You're simply assuming they would.

How often do you travel out of state? Reciprocity, while nice, *most* people may take advantage of it for only short periods, 1-2x a year.

Constitutional carry would be easier.. If reciprocity is that important to you, get a Florida Non-Res, and only go places where it is recognized.

IGF

I travel out-of-state about once per week... sometimes more. I go into the U.P. of MI. I already have a FL & MN, which MI won't honor because I live in WI. The current constitutional carry bill (SB93) has been amended in committee (yesterday, May 25th) to now include optional WI issued permits. There is no training required for a WI permit, but there will be a background check done.... as the bill now reads. But I guarentee you there will be changes made or it won't pass. All the Dems (but one) oppose it, and there's a lot of RINOs that want permits issued. There's enough with an "R" after their name to get it passed without any "Ds"... but some of those "Rs" aren't really an "Rs".

PEC-Memphis
05-26-2011, 23:33
First, very very rarely is CCW a profitable thing for the state (and frankly, it shouldn't be). It costs them far more in employee salaries, benefits, etc. than they could charge for a permit. Otherwise, you'd be chucking out probably close to 3-400 just for the permit. Honestly, I would be surprised if most municipalities break even on issuing permits, let alone making money.

Certainly can't comment on other states, however, the permit system is a "money maker" in the State of Tennessee, ie. the revenues for the permits are greater than the entire cost of the system by a 'comfortable margin'.

The permit system doesn't cost any of the muni's anything.

HerrGlock
05-27-2011, 01:56
I'm more a permit system with training mostly for reciprocity sake. Not a many if any states will have recprocity with a state with no training standard at all. I don't want to get multiple state permits either.

AL, PA, WA, offhand the first three I can think of that require no training yet they're accepted in over 20 states each. VA you can literally do your training on the 'net and that permit is accepted in 27 states.

No training required means they cannot further restrict who can give training nor can the state increase the mandatory fee for such classes.

Search
05-27-2011, 02:24
If I remember right, the total cost for a permit and background in WI (in the bills requiring a permit) would be under $100.

That would be nice. Where I live a class is usually 75 - 100 dollars and to apply is 120. A person spends 200 dollars to get a permit. A lot of people don't like this.

Open carry would prevent it if that was legal without the permit. (You see what I did there)

sourdough44
05-27-2011, 04:21
I'll take a 'best of the best' permit system for WI, with NO concessions given in other areas of firearms ownership. Yes, I've been around & know the arguments for & against. I see no reason to rip Walker over not going with constitutional carry.

clarson_75
05-27-2011, 12:25
after reading through a lot of info and getting my ccp in iowa, i also like the permit system. in the end it shows some leo that you put some time/work in to be able to carry.

IndyGunFreak
05-27-2011, 13:30
In the end it shows some leo that you put some time/work in to be able to carry.

Really though, should you have to put time and work into it. Many argue it's a constitutionally protected activity, so you shouldn't require a permit.

I think there's good arguments for both.. a fair permit system, doesn't bother me, but frankly, neither does constitutional carry.

rfb45colt
05-27-2011, 19:00
after reading through a lot of info and getting my ccp in iowa, i also like the permit system. in the end it shows some leo that you put some time/work in to be able to carry.

I like a permit system (background check but no mandatory training) for a similar reason (other than reciprocity). You can verify that CC works. In a state like WI which has a lot of liberals, and most of the newspapers and other media are heavily liberal biased (same as most places, I guess), any crime committed with a firearm will be blamed on concealed carriers, particularly if there's no permit process to prove otherwise. With a permit process, the gun crimes committed by bad guys (who won't, or can't, get a permit) cannot be blamed on the good guys who have permits, because this can be tracked and verified. Without permits, the liberals will lump all together and blame CC, not criminals. When you tell a lie often enough, people start to believe it.

If the Dems ever get control again, they'll point to the gun crimes committed since CC took effect (that won't change... criminals will always be criminals), blame all gun owners instead of the criminals, and CC will get legislated away. If there's proof that it's only criminals and not permit holders causing the problems, then public pressure will prevent the loss of CC.