Criminal or civil? [Archive] - Glock Talk

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Reyn
05-23-2011, 13:21
A gas company supplies gas to a store. The store owner has a bank account that the oil company has access to. They withdraw the money she deposits each week. They then take her part out of the deposits and send her cut at the end of the month.

She hasnt made a deposit in like a month or two and owes the company around 8 grand.

Now since she is depositing money that is partially hers, is it criminal or civil in your opinion? The company is talking about 8,000dollars worth of gas has been delivered to the store but they cannot detrmine how much is exactly theirs.

Dragoon44
05-23-2011, 13:57
A gas company supplies gas to a store. The store owner has a bank account that the oil company has access to. They withdraw the money she deposits each week. They then take her part out of the deposits and send her cut at the end of the month.

She hasnt made a deposit in like a month or two and owes the company around 8 grand.

Now since she is depositing money that is partially hers, is it criminal or civil in your opinion? The company is talking about 8,000dollars worth of gas has been delivered to the store but they cannot detrmine how much is exactly theirs.

Sounds civil to me. If in doubt I would ask the State Attorney.

ray9898
05-23-2011, 14:04
Civil....breech of contract. You will never prove she took the gas with the criminal intent to simply deprive them of the property.

furioso2112
05-23-2011, 14:06
could be criminal, too - embezzlement, larceny (depending on facts and circumstances)

Reyn
05-23-2011, 16:11
Sounds civil to me. If in doubt I would ask the State Attorney.

I wrote it up as civil. I called one of our investigators to confirm what i thought and he said you can't be charged with theft for stealing your money. Her money was part of the deposits.

Bout two months later another person called and wanted me to change it to criminal because the neighboring county was going after the same female for the same thing but were going with criminal charges.

I told her ultimately it was up to the DA and that's who makes the decision as to pursuing something criminal. It didn't matter how i wrote it up. He can change that if he desires.

Dragoon44
05-23-2011, 16:25
I wrote it up as civil. I called one of our investigators to confirm what i thought and he said you can't be charged with theft for stealing your money. Her money was part of the deposits.

Bout two months later another person called and wanted me to change it to criminal because the neighboring county was going after the same female for the same thing but were going with criminal charges.

I told her ultimately it was up to the DA and that's who makes the decision as to pursuing something criminal. It didn't matter how i wrote it up. He can change that if he desires.

precisely, in the end they delivered the gas and she has not paid for it. it's not like she went and took the gas herself and did not pay for it. it's a business dispute.

Patchman
05-23-2011, 16:39
the neighboring county was going after the same female for the same thing but were going with criminal charges.

I told her ultimately it was up to the DA and that's who makes the decision as to pursuing something criminal. It didn't matter how i wrote it up. He can change that if he desires.

You mean the same gas company filed another complaint in the other county about the same incident, or you mean she did the same thing in the other county with a second gas company?

Absolutely run this by your county's DA (and refer them to the other county's DA). If your DA declines, there's only civil left.

DaBigBR
05-24-2011, 00:26
It could go either way, and because of that, the easy way out for the prosecutors will be to declare it civil and walk away. You obviously will have trouble getting evidence of criminal intent directly, so it will likely take a long pattern of behavior to establish it. We have had issues getting our county attorney to proecute con-man contractors who have left piles of people high and dry with little to no work done and large up-front payments cashed.

Bruce M
05-24-2011, 06:16
I would probably write it as a civil dispute and advise the complainant/victim to contact the State Attorneys Office for review.

merlynusn
05-24-2011, 07:38
I'd go with civil.

Patchman
05-24-2011, 18:13
This thread brings up a nice point about any responding LEO taking that initial report. If the LEO is not sure what he/she has, get as much information/evidence, name, etc... as possible, as if a crime had occurred.

Sure people can be re-interviewed later on, but nothing like that first telling of what happened.

For a DA reviewing the complaint, or an investigator following up on a complaint, it's better to have more information on that complaint than not enough or just the bare bones.

Dragoon44
05-24-2011, 19:10
Many years ago back in the dark ages and before walmart. there was a wal mart like outfit called TG&Y. one day I got dispatched there to investigate 23,000 dollars worth of stolen merchandise.

When I arrived this manger tells me they need a police report about the 23,000 worth of merchandise. Naturally I asked when did this theft take place?

The manager says, "sometime between April and now" ( it was then Sept.)
When I said, "excuse me"? she explained that was when they had gotten merchandise in and they had just done an inventory and discovered 23,000 worth of merchandise missing.

it gets better, when pressed she admits that there was no real proof that the merchandise was ever in the storeroom to begin with.

But the corp told her to get a police report for insurance.

I told her to tell corp to drop dead.

lawman800
05-24-2011, 21:54
To take it as criminal, you would have to prove intent. It's similar to bouncing checks here in LA County. The DA has a bounced check unit but for them to take the case, you would have to show the person never deposited the money or had insufficient funds from the beginning, thus never intending to make good on the check they wrote you.

DaBigBR
05-24-2011, 22:47
Many years ago back in the dark ages and before walmart. there was a wal mart like outfit called TG&Y. one day I got dispatched there to investigate 23,000 dollars worth of stolen merchandise.

When I arrived this manger tells me they need a police report about the 23,000 worth of merchandise. Naturally I asked when did this theft take place?

The manager says, "sometime between April and now" ( it was then Sept.)
When I said, "excuse me"? she explained that was when they had gotten merchandise in and they had just done an inventory and discovered 23,000 worth of merchandise missing.

it gets better, when pressed she admits that there was no real proof that the merchandise was ever in the storeroom to begin with.

But the corp told her to get a police report for insurance.

I told her to tell corp to drop dead.

I would write a spotless report highlighting the facts you mention and be sure that it gets sent right off to corporate.

EOD3
05-24-2011, 23:23
To take it as criminal, you would have to prove intent. It's similar to bouncing checks here in LA County. The DA has a bounced check unit but for them to take the case, you would have to show the person never deposited the money or had insufficient funds from the beginning, thus never intending to make good on the check they wrote you.

Wouldn't accepting the gas the second month tend to prove intent, making the failure to deposit the second month's receipts a felony? :dunno:

steveksux
05-25-2011, 00:44
I'd divorce her if I were you.... :whistling::tongueout::rofl:

Randy

jpa
05-25-2011, 10:22
I'd tell the gas company that if she didn't pay for the first month, why would they continue to deliver gas and think she was actually going to pay?

MarcDW
05-25-2011, 10:47
Oil/Gas companies have that in Maine left and right.
Some companies went even under over this.
Which sucks then for the people who paid money in on their plan.
Our DA does pretty much nothing and often these are well know (to LE) persons.
It's not the poor widow who lost her husband in the service!

I had one case where the live in "boy friend" and father to one of her 3 children told me he had PSD and could not work therefore.
So I asked him which brand he served.
He told me he was living in one of our problem apartment buildings (known for drugs and fights) where he got in a fight with a neighbor and this caused the PSD!
:upeyes:

lawman800
05-25-2011, 11:00
Wouldn't accepting the gas the second month tend to prove intent, making the failure to deposit the second month's receipts a felony? :dunno:

That's what lawyers are for. Specific intent can be proven by circumstantial evidence but your DA better be on it or else the defense can just as easily argue inadvertence or negligence or mistake or oversight, etc.

Patchman
05-25-2011, 11:52
Many years ago back in the dark ages and before walmart. there was a wal mart like outfit called TG&Y. one day I got dispatched there to investigate 23,000 dollars worth of stolen merchandise.

When I arrived this manger tells me they need a police report about the 23,000 worth of merchandise. Naturally I asked when did this theft take place?

The manager says, "sometime between April and now" ( it was then Sept.)
When I said, "excuse me"? she explained that was when they had gotten merchandise in and they had just done an inventory and discovered 23,000 worth of merchandise missing.

it gets better, when pressed she admits that there was no real proof that the merchandise was ever in the storeroom to begin with.

But the corp told her to get a police report for insurance.

I told her to tell corp to drop dead.

Our agency went to a new database system in 2002/2003 where you can search by a number of criterias. More information on a crime complaint, the better, even if the complaint is 'fishy' (of course, the crazy BS ones get tossed). Database search can provide patterns of police complaints or a nugget of good information.

MeefZah
05-25-2011, 20:08
I got bored after the first sentence, ergo, it must be civil. :rofl:

RDeputy150
05-26-2011, 18:34
Civil.