Officer fired for leaving his post... [Archive] - Glock Talk

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txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:00
I don't remember seeing this posted here.... Basically a Rice University police officer got canned because he responded to an OIS, off campus, because a Houston PD officer was down. Dereliction of duty is the claim... :upeyes:

What are we coming to as a race?

Link (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/110525-rice-police-officer-fired-for-leaving-post)

blueiron
05-27-2011, 20:08
How far away was the shooting from the university? If it was called as a 998/999/Code 33/etc. within a few miles, I don't see a problem. Further than that, probably not a good idea.

I had stopped an ASU PD officer from Tempe in a marked unit nearly thirty five miles away from the campus, before there was a west side campus in the 1980s. He claimed he was out looking for his girlfriend's house at 0-dark-30. :upeyes:

txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:18
From my understanding it, was less than 4 miles away.


There was no doubt he responded to the shooting. He was fired for being gone for and hour and half without telling his sergeant that he was responding.

I think termination was a bit harsh...

collim1
05-27-2011, 20:20
If an officer is down within a few miles of me I would just have to be one fat fired butt.

However, I work for a dept that is contracted to provide LE service to a large university. There are lines that are not to be crossed without supervisor permission when assigned to campus.

Luckily it only comes up one day every two weeks.

blueiron
05-27-2011, 20:22
From my understanding it was less than 4 miles.


I have zero problem with that as long as it remains an active scene. Once its secured, head back.

txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:24
According to some guys in the area, he responded to the ONA call when it came out. He heard "officer down" and hauled ass to get there....

I want to send him a letter that my department is still hiring.

blueiron
05-27-2011, 20:26
Being gone for 1.5 hours and not informing a supervisor would have gotten me a week w/o pay for the first offense.

Tell a boss where you are going. It is pretty simple concept.

txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:26
I have zero problem with that as long as it remains an active scene. Once its secured, head back.

An hour and a half on a OIS scene doesn't seem excessive to me. I've been on a number of them, and that's a drop in the bucket.

blueiron
05-27-2011, 20:29
An hour and a half on a OIS scene doesn't seem excessive to me. I've been on a number of them, and that's a drop in the bucket.

The kicker is not telling a supervisor. I do have a problem with that factor.

In central AZ, its open season until the scene is secured, then everyone goes in-service if one isn't taking dispo or supporting.

txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:31
Being gone for 1.5 hours and not informing a supervisor would have gotten me a week w/o pay for the first offense.

Tell a boss where you are going. It is pretty simple concept.

That, I don't disagree with you... Punishment? Fine. Fired? Seems a bit much. Especially considering the circumstances.

He should have called the boss, no doubt.... The only possible reason I can think of as to why he didn't, is that he thought his sarge would order him not to go. :dunno: That wouldn't surprise me. I worked for one of those guys once...

razdog76
05-27-2011, 20:31
+1 to Blueiron's responses. What supervisor likes to be surprised?

blueiron
05-27-2011, 20:38
The only possible reason I can think of as to why he didn't, is that he thought his sarge would order him not to go. :dunno: That wouldn't surprise me. I worked for one of those guys once...


I worked for a number of clowns who thought that the less you did, they less they had to answer for when citizens complained or people asked questions.

Still, one has to do what the agency pays for and follow the major rules. This is not the economy to lose a job in.

m2hmghb
05-27-2011, 20:39
That, I don't disagree with you... Punishment? Fine. Fired? Seems a bit much. Especially considering the circumstances.

He should have called the boss, no doubt.... The only possible reason I can think of as to why he didn't, is that he thought his sarge would order him not to go. :dunno: That wouldn't surprise me. I worked for one of those guys once...


What comes to mind is the old "better to beg forgiveness then ask permission". I wonder if he thought the supervisor would keep him there and forbid him from leaving the campus.

Sam Spade
05-27-2011, 20:42
If I were HPD, I'd give him a medal, publically, then hire him.

This was a mistake of the head, not a mistake of the heart. Any supervisor/department with the brain God gave an earthworm can work with that.

txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:42
Still, one has to do what the agency pays for and follow the major rules. This is not the economy to lose a job in.

No doubt... It sucks, though, when someone feels they have to weigh income versus doing the right thing.

blueiron
05-27-2011, 20:46
No doubt... It sucks, though, when someone feels they have to weigh income versus doing the right thing.

Indeed. There have been times in most of our careers where we bite our lip and mentally grumble at the stupidity confronting us.

txleapd
05-27-2011, 20:49
My mistake.... It looks like he was gone not quite an hour.

Rice University released the following statement regarding the termination:

"...Out of respect for the Houston Police Department, we want to clarify that David Sedmak was terminated from the Rice University Police Department for dereliction of duty. Sedmak left his post when only two other officers were on duty and failed to notify his supervisor of his whereabouts for nearly an hour..."

Kahr_Glockman
05-27-2011, 20:56
My agency is hiring......

I have two supervisors that would have beat me to the call.

Anywho, I agree, termination is a bit much. Days off and put back on probation I would have no problem with.

txleapd
05-27-2011, 21:10
I don't know anyone at Rice, but I've got some buddies at HPD. Apparently they are all pissed.... Their union is blasting Rice.

MeefZah
05-27-2011, 21:22
I see no problem with responding, getting done what needs to be done, and then calling a boss as soon as the scene is secure to say: "Heads up, this is where I am, this is what I did". If he failed to make that call, well take away a vacation day or something.

Kind of hard to make a dereliction argument when a major component of our "duty" is to protect against loss of life and render assistance to other officers / agencies.

Vigilant
05-27-2011, 21:48
We don't know what, if any, other issues they had with him, do we? If he were already under a letter of warning or such, it might not be too far out of line to respond harshly. Also, as someone already alluded to, we don't know what their SOP states. They may have some provision to guard against possible diversions. I agree that he would have been well advised to let someone know he was responding, in accordance with whatever SOP they have.

I hate to see anyone lose their job, and I wish he had not lost his. I just can't see enough info to offer a cut and dried opinion.

Dukeboy01
05-27-2011, 21:56
I gotta say, he should have told somebody where he was. Do they not have dispatchers at Rice? Seems to me he should have gotten out on the radio at some point.

One other thing to consider: Did he actually end up involved in the shooting or performing some critical function like securing the scene or did he just hang around being a lookie- loo?

MeefZah
05-27-2011, 22:01
I gotta say, he should have told somebody where he was. Do they not have dispatchers at Rice? Seems to me he should have gotten out on the radio at some point.



At some point, yes, I agree. But assuming everyone is on the same frequency, as we are here, I sure as **** wouldn't be airing anything that might take away air time from someone who needs it a helluva lot more than I do. I can respond, handle what needs handled, and then when things calm down advise dispatch.

Never had an OIS while I've been working, thank god, but in every other big incident I've been on - most notably pursuits - the radio is overwhelmed with bull**** and the one guy who really needs to air something can't get out.

Dukeboy01
05-27-2011, 22:29
At some point, yes, I agree. But assuming everyone is on the same frequency, as we are here, I sure as **** wouldn't be airing anything that might take away air time from someone who needs it a helluva lot more than I do. I can respond, handle what needs handled, and then when things calm down advise dispatch.

Never had an OIS while I've been working, thank god, but in every other big incident I've been on - most notably pursuits - the radio is overwhelmed with bull**** and the one guy who really needs to air something can't get out.

I can see that if everyone is on the same frequency. In my area we're all on different frequencies. The campus cops like to monitor our frequencies, but we generally don't have access to theirs.

Pinki
05-27-2011, 22:33
Universities have never been known to be in the 'real' world -- I guess that must extend to Rice's PD. I hope that the officer finds a better job -- Rice obviously does not deserve him.

steveksux
05-27-2011, 23:43
If the radio is a problem, there's no reason he can't use his cell phone to notify the supervisor. And if he got fired over this, he had to already know either he was on thin ice due to prior discipline problems or had a doofus for a boss.

This just doesn't add up. Has to be more to this story.

Randy

trdvet
05-28-2011, 00:01
This just doesn't add up. Has to be more to this story.

Doubt it. Rice PD is notoriously strict about Officers leaving campus. I've worked with them on several occasions but will reserve my comments.

DaBigBR
05-28-2011, 04:01
If they're union, he'll grieve it and get his job back. I agree that some sort of reprimand for the amount of time gone without supervisor notification is justifiable, but certainly not termination, especially considering the circumstances.

If I were HPD, I'd give him a medal, publically, then hire him.

This was a mistake of the head, not a mistake of the heart. Any supervisor/department with the brain God gave an earthworm can work with that.

"I can accept a mistake of the mind, but I cannot and will not accept a mistake of the heart."

Who said it?

steveksux
05-28-2011, 05:55
Doubt it. Rice PD is notoriously strict about Officers leaving campus. I've worked with them on several occasions but will reserve my comments.You've worked with them, so I'll obviously take your word for it. Still hard to believe though, that's pretty ridiculous.

Maybe if the campus cop has a history of roaming off campus to "help" the locals and been warned a few times, I could almost understand it, but still not really for a situation like this.

I predict there will soon be a line of feminine hygiene products named after the supervisor.

Randy

S.O.Interceptor
05-28-2011, 06:22
I'll hire him.

The bigger shock is that 2 other officers on Rice's campus DIDN'T GO to the officer down call. Fire those 2 worthless sacks of crap.

TexasSchool Cop
05-28-2011, 06:59
Officer down I say everyone goes. When enough HPD guys get there, haul ass back to where you are paid to perform. It's not like HPD does not have plenty of officers. 4 miles ain't that far in Texas.

CAcop
05-28-2011, 07:23
What comes to mind is the old "better to beg forgiveness then ask permission". I wonder if he thought the supervisor would keep him there and forbid him from leaving the campus.

I want to strangle anyone who says that. It is never true unless you are one of the golden children.

m2hmghb
05-28-2011, 07:41
I want to strangle anyone who says that. It is never true unless you are one of the golden children.


Touche. You know what I mean though, sometimes you follow your heart instead of what your supervisor says. You tend to know what kind of a person your supervisor is, whether he'd let you assist or make you stay. Although there is probably a bit we don't know.

txleapd
05-28-2011, 08:01
If the radio is a problem, there's no reason he can't use his cell phone to notify the supervisor. And if he got fired over this, he had to already know either he was on thin ice due to prior discipline problems or had a doofus for a boss.

This just doesn't add up. Has to be more to this story.

Randy

With the heat Rice is catching over the incident, I would have to believe that if the guy was a problem child, they would be airing his dirty laundry. I haven't heard of any dirty laundry.

CJStudent
05-28-2011, 08:18
Sounds like typical private university BS to me. I've worked campus security for one here, and our policies and politics were rediculous. Expected to do everything, with nothing, without offending ANYONE, by yesterday. It sounds like Rice is about the same way.

PinkoCommie
05-28-2011, 09:04
How did the supervisor not know? There was an OIS within 4 miles of his back yard. Was he not scanning HPD's channel? Did the Rice officer not call out on either Rice's channel or HPD's channel that he was out on the scene of the shooting? If he did, it is the supervisor's problem that he did not know.

I work for a University PD. I am not a supervisor, but when we work without a Sgt. and I am the officer in charge, I pay close attention to our officers' traffic on the city's channel (we work with the city a LOT and carry their commission in addition to the university's). If one of my guys calls out on the city channel that he is out with the city, I consider myself "notified".

trdvet
05-28-2011, 09:06
Sounds like typical private university BS to me. I've worked campus security for one here, and our policies and politics were rediculous. Expected to do everything, with nothing, without offending ANYONE, by yesterday. It sounds like Rice is about the same way.

Bingo

I've never seen Rice PD past the streets that run the perimeter of their campus.

ClydeG19
05-28-2011, 09:42
I also work for a college pd and ran into this problem myself. I work in a rural area and a deputy was shot about a year ago. My boss ordered me not to go. I was livid for days and he lost a lot of my respect that day.

In general, we're not supposed to even work traffic on the surrounding streets unless it's something absolutely blatant. We need another agency to call us and ask for assistance before we're allowed to go off campus.

PinkoCommie
05-28-2011, 10:48
I also work for a college pd and ran into this problem myself. I work in a rural area and a deputy was shot about a year ago. My boss ordered me not to go. I was livid for days and he lost a lot of my respect that day.

In general, we're not supposed to even work traffic on the surrounding streets unless it's something absolutely blatant. We need another agency to call us and ask for assistance before we're allowed to go off campus.

That's exactly the opposite of us. We are expected to be able to articulate that what we are doing has some reasonable connection to the university or its community. Our students, faculty and staff roam all over the city, so that's an easy one. I have made more arrests off campus than on since I've been here. Granted, most of those are DUIs, which are hard (but not impossible) to catch on the few roads that go through campus, but still... Taking primary on DVs aired by the city is not cool. Covering the city on said DV when their cover is a few minutes away is fine. Traffic work in the general area around campus and downtown, and in between the many parts of campus is expected. General police work (pedestrian contacts, buying lemonade from a stand, stopping a fight, shooting people that need to be shot, etc, and DEFINITELY responding to the city's or county's requests for emergent cover) in the vaguely defined area that includes the campus and downtown is expected.

trdvet
05-28-2011, 12:09
4 mile radius around Rice University.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v720/trdvet/ricepd.jpg

MeefZah
05-28-2011, 12:34
wtaylor@rice.edu

Chief Taylor's email address, if anyone is so inclined to use it.

I just looked at their website. Their university is physically and populationwise almost exactly the same size as mine... with like 6x the staff. Like they couldn't spare the guy for an hour...

SAR
05-28-2011, 12:51
There's always more to the story. Someone suggested that this particular school has Draconian policies for their officers. Maybe so. I have no particular knowledge of this school or of the Houston Area specifically, but here's what I do know. Houston probably has 5,000+ officers. The University has what 25 officers? What exactly did this one unicop do at the OIS that would take him an hour and a half without checking in with his own command?

Here in Los Angeles, when an OIS occurs, we have no less than 100 or 200 of our own agency officers respond. We have our own training, policies, procedures and tactics that we adhere to. We set up our perimeters and staff them with our officers. We set up our crime scene and staff it with our officers. We set up our entry teams and staff them with our officers. If for instance, a University of California Cop showed up at our OIS, we really would have nothing for them to do because they are not trained in our policies or tactics. We would not necessarily run them off, but we don't use them for anything either. In fact if they start nosing around the crime scene tape, we start taking down names, at which point they usually leave....

I suspect that Houston as big as it is, operates much the same. I would imagine dozens of Houston cops would respond along with this one university cop. So what exactly was it that unicop was doing at the scene? What specifically? No way in hell would *I* as a supervisor/manager insert an "unknown" officer into one of my tactical teams. No way in hell would I trust him to handle any of the OIS crime scene management chores. He ain't riding to the hospital with my guy, he ain't riding to the hospital with the suspect, and he ain't taking charge of any witnesses or suspects. So what is it that he is doing other that "sightseeing" and sticking his nose into something above and beyond his boring life as a "unicop."

Just my two cents, but I call 'em as I see 'em.....

DaBigBR
05-28-2011, 13:41
I suspect that Houston as big as it is, operates much the same. I would imagine dozens of Houston cops would respond along with this one university cop. So what exactly was it that unicop was doing at the scene? What specifically? No way in hell would *I* as a supervisor/manager insert an "unknown" officer into one of my tactical teams. No way in hell would I trust him to handle any of the OIS crime scene management chores. He ain't riding to the hospital with my guy, he ain't riding to the hospital with the suspect, and he ain't taking charge of any witnesses or suspects. So what is it that he is doing other that "sightseeing" and sticking his nose into something above and beyond his boring life as a "unicop."

I guess I take issue with the suggestion that the officer was merely out sightseeing. It implies that this guy heard the hot call (and it sure doesn't get much hotter than a shot cop) and decided that rather than be "bored", he would go up there to see what was going on. I think that the entirely more likely scenario is that there was a shortage of information on the radio and he decided to respond to the scene to render what assistance he could.

Why he was there for ninety minutes...who the hell knows, but I think the implication that he merely responded for something to do, rather than to provide assistance to a shot cop, is innapropriate.

fatfred
05-28-2011, 13:50
I knew a unicop who worked for the local campus. He loved traffic chases and was told repeatedly if he started to chase on campus to pull back when the city PD took over. He was doing all right till he got on the local TV news way out (15 miles) at the county line where the chase ended in a crash. When Monday morning rolled around he was private K
not Sg. K. After the second demotion the next year we called him "velcro" cause that was what was under his stripes.

AZLawDawg
05-28-2011, 14:03
The kicker is not telling a supervisor. I do have a problem with that factor.

In central AZ, its open season until the scene is secured, then everyone goes in-service if one isn't taking dispo or supporting.

That's not always the case though. 963, I respond, I was second guy on scene, chest compressions in the number 1 lane, I-10. Notify supervisor after Fire gets there and takes over minutes later. Still got verbally reprimanded.
"Why did you stop? That's not your job anymore, etc.. etc.."

Body in the number 1 and I'm supposed to drive right by. Frikkin' unbelievable.

groovyash
05-28-2011, 14:04
There's always more to the story. Someone suggested that this particular school has Draconian policies for their officers. Maybe so. I have no particular knowledge of this school or of the Houston Area specifically, but here's what I do know. Houston probably has 5,000+ officers. The University has what 25 officers? What exactly did this one unicop do at the OIS that would take him an hour and a half without checking in with his own command?

Here in Los Angeles, when an OIS occurs, we have no less than 100 or 200 of our own agency officers respond. We have our own training, policies, procedures and tactics that we adhere to. We set up our perimeters and staff them with our officers. We set up our crime scene and staff it with our officers. We set up our entry teams and staff them with our officers. If for instance, a University of California Cop showed up at our OIS, we really would have nothing for them to do because they are not trained in our policies or tactics. We would not necessarily run them off, but we don't use them for anything either. In fact if they start nosing around the crime scene tape, we start taking down names, at which point they usually leave....

I suspect that Houston as big as it is, operates much the same. I would imagine dozens of Houston cops would respond along with this one university cop. So what exactly was it that unicop was doing at the scene? What specifically? No way in hell would *I* as a supervisor/manager insert an "unknown" officer into one of my tactical teams. No way in hell would I trust him to handle any of the OIS crime scene management chores. He ain't riding to the hospital with my guy, he ain't riding to the hospital with the suspect, and he ain't taking charge of any witnesses or suspects. So what is it that he is doing other that "sightseeing" and sticking his nose into something above and beyond his boring life as a "unicop."

Just my two cents, but I call 'em as I see 'em.....

Although I agree there may be more to this, I think in terms of inter-agency cooperation the situation is very specific to the involved departments. I also work for a large dept. not LAPD large, but big enough. There are a few Univ. Police Depts within our jurisdiction that I would not want to work with but the largest one routinely supplements us on major events, handles calls for us, and generally works hand in hand with us to the point that on a major call their personnel are basically interchangeable with ours. Their SWAT team trains with ours and deploys with ours when manpower is needed, as do their motorcycles, bikes, K9's etc. We also have a joint bar district detail where officers from both departments cover foot beats paired up in the summer. Keeping everyone from different departments on the same page is important but in 2011 multi-agency response should be the norm not the exception for everyone's benefit. I also wouldn't necessarily be so quick to assume he simply went sightseeing, my experience has been our University P.D. has plenty of their own pursuits, fights and OISs that they don't need to be jumping ours just for kicks.

SAR
05-28-2011, 14:33
I guess I take issue with the suggestion that the officer was merely out sightseeing. It implies that this guy heard the hot call (and it sure doesn't get much hotter than a shot cop) and decided that rather than be "bored", he would go up there to see what was going on. I think that the entirely more likely scenario is that there was a shortage of information on the radio and he decided to respond to the scene to render what assistance he could.

Why he was there for ninety minutes...who the hell knows, but I think the implication that he merely responded for something to do, rather than to provide assistance to a shot cop, is innapropriate.

We have a huge problem with this locally. With 20 Uniformed Patrol Divisions, 4 Traffic Divisions, untold number of specialized units, and many surrounding agencies, every time we have a huge blow up, guys come from all over town. When all is said and done, the real work is done by the Area uniforms and the rest of the guys kind of stand around gawking at the dead bodies and mayhem. As a supervisor, I have often tried to put guys to actual work, only to be told they had to get back to their Divisions of assignment.

I once had a pursuit that crossed two counties and ended 70 miles away. At the termination of the pursuit, we had a humungous pile-on and all I could see were blue uniforms in a big mound. When we finally got the suspect out from under it, he was beaten to a pulp. When I started taking names for the use of force report, cars started burning rubber to get out of there. In the end, I only had my two guys who owned up to having hands on the suspect.

So while I cannot speak for Houston, I can speak plenty about what happens out here.

Pepper45
05-28-2011, 15:57
SAR, I can see what you're saying in big city policing. In rural areas like mine, it is a little different. We train together, work together, take each other's calls if we need to. A cop in my county from 20 miles away may have a slightly different policy, but I rely on them if I need to, which is often enough. In my county, there are probably 35-40 on at a minimum, at any one time. If I'm within striking distance of a call, I'm going. I've sat on perimeter for several hours on another agency's mess. Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with a shot cop, but I'd imagine rolling there for support, to take over menial tasks for the investigating agency until they got enough personnel on scene to take over all of their own duties.

SAR
05-28-2011, 17:01
SAR, I can see what you're saying in big city policing. In rural areas like mine, it is a little different. We train together, work together, take each other's calls if we need to. A cop in my county from 20 miles away may have a slightly different policy, but I rely on them if I need to, which is often enough. In my county, there are probably 35-40 on at a minimum, at any one time. If I'm within striking distance of a call, I'm going. I've sat on perimeter for several hours on another agency's mess. Thankfully, I haven't had to deal with a shot cop, but I'd imagine rolling there for support, to take over menial tasks for the investigating agency until they got enough personnel on scene to take over all of their own duties.

That's why I mentioned that I do not know how Houston works, but I figured Houston was a big city, not rural...

blueiron
05-28-2011, 18:54
That's not always the case though. 963, I respond, I was second guy on scene, chest compressions in the number 1 lane, I-10. Notify supervisor after Fire gets there and takes over minutes later. Still got verbally reprimanded.
"Why did you stop? That's not your job anymore, etc.. etc.."

Body in the number 1 and I'm supposed to drive right by. Frikkin' unbelievable.

We are in agreement, not disagreement. Going '97 as #2, on scene of a 962.5 means that the scene is not secure or Code Four and you have to save lives first. Sometimes, working a pt. takes time and with all the chatty-cathies on the frequency, it can take time to clear radio. Interstate or SR serious accidents take time to set up and secure. FD parks where ever they like and often shut down the road and claim it is unintentional.

My issue is that if an officer goes on scene at a dynamic mess and radio has no clue where you are, if that officer becomes a casualty - they are an additional problem to the original problem.

I worked the NW valley and have covered calls as far north as I17 and Rock Springs, east US93 in Wickenburg, and east into Phoenix for 999 calls. The officer was wrong for not checking in and with cell phones in a metro area, it becomes a non-issue barring catastrophes.

AZLawDawg
05-28-2011, 20:04
We are in agreement, not disagreement. Going '97 as #2, on scene of a 962.5 means that the scene is not secure or Code Four and you have to save lives first. Sometimes, working a pt. takes time and with all the chatty-cathies on the frequency, it can take time to clear radio. Interstate or SR serious accidents take time to set up and secure. FD parks where ever they like and often shut down the road and claim it is unintentional.

My issue is that if an officer goes on scene at a dynamic mess and radio has no clue where you are, if that officer becomes a casualty - they are an additional problem to the original problem.

I worked the NW valley and have covered calls as far north as I17 and Rock Springs, east US93 in Wickenburg, and east into Phoenix for 999 calls. The officer was wrong for not checking in and with cell phones in a metro area, it becomes a non-issue barring catastrophes.

Funny you mention that, I almost ran code 3 to my partners house ( he lives 15 min away ) after he forgot to check 10-7, then went out to dinner, missing all of the phone calls from dispatch, and two Sergeants mind you. Then they all called me as I was on my run home from the gym saying, go to his house, NOW. So basically, this lead to me, charging out of the house in my gym clothes, with my sidearm and an AR.

As I was loading the car up, I got a phone call, '22, we found him, Code 4. It took everything within me not to yell out motherf$%^&#! over the radio.
I wouldn't call it a necessary evil, just something that's just necessary. You gotta let 'em know where you're at.

lawman800
05-28-2011, 23:15
I'll vouch for SAR and the LAPD way. They have their own protocol and procedures which is different from every other local agency. They even have their own transition academy for laterals so they can spend 6-8 weeks (forget what it is now) learning the LAPD way before they hit the streets with their FTO. Other agencies just throw their laterals out to the streets with a FTO without a need for formal transition.

LAPD has the manpower to cover their own calls. Look at North Hollywood. They put out more officers on that one incident than 99% of LA County agencies even have on roster. How many agencies can handle something like that on their own? Even LASD, with about 8,000 deputies, don't have that to put out on the streets because they have corrections, courts, and transportation details which comprise their ranks.

LAPD can put out more officers on one robbery call than most suburban agencies put out in 1 whole day's worth of shifts. That's the kind of manpower they got for incidents. Some mope tried to rob me in Westwood once and my buddy foiled him while I called it in. Within seconds, 6 units and 1 supervisor cornered the guy 2 blocks away. That's 12 officers and 1 sergeant for 1 attempt robbery call. By way of comparison, my old agency put on the street max 3 officers and a sergeant on a weeknight and 5 officers and a sergeant on the weekend, per shift.

However, everywhere else, interagency cooperation is the norm and expected. I have backed and received backing from every local agency when I work. It is expected. One big agency in the area is down 10% of their max authorized strength and the other one just cut about 15% of their force through layoffs. Everyone is short. When I see them around the borders on a stop, I always back them, and them, me. It's SOP. One time, we took over the neighboring city and handled all their calls because they had a gang shooting and all their units were handling the incident. Their dispatch just directed it to our station and we handled routine calls for them while they were busy. That's just the way it has to be in smaller agencies.

DaBigBR
05-28-2011, 23:22
We have a huge problem with this locally. With 20 Uniformed Patrol Divisions, 4 Traffic Divisions, untold number of specialized units, and many surrounding agencies, every time we have a huge blow up, guys come from all over town. When all is said and done, the real work is done by the Area uniforms and the rest of the guys kind of stand around gawking at the dead bodies and mayhem. As a supervisor, I have often tried to put guys to actual work, only to be told they had to get back to their Divisions of assignment.

I once had a pursuit that crossed two counties and ended 70 miles away. At the termination of the pursuit, we had a humungous pile-on and all I could see were blue uniforms in a big mound. When we finally got the suspect out from under it, he was beaten to a pulp. When I started taking names for the use of force report, cars started burning rubber to get out of there. In the end, I only had my two guys who owned up to having hands on the suspect.

So while I cannot speak for Houston, I can speak plenty about what happens out here.

I don't doubt it, and my post was taking fairly narrow issue with the assumption that the university police officer responded to the officer down call only because he would have been bored otherwise. Even in my little corner of the world we occasionally run in to issues like you describe. It's amazing how "busy" somebody can suddenly be when it is suggested that they do any of the grunt work. I make it a point when assisting another agency to ask what they want me to do once the scene is secure and to NEVER turn it down.

lawman800
05-28-2011, 23:30
I know a few guys from LA School Police and they do try to blend in with LAPD quite often. I also see them on calls with LAPD. There was also this one clip where LAPD ended a pursuit by putting an armored SWAT van right up against the felon's car and boxed him in with patrol units in the back... and then you see one LASPD unit right there on the left side... and I was like... what are they doing there?

trdvet
05-29-2011, 00:05
I suspect that Houston as big as it is, operates much the same. I would imagine dozens of Houston cops would respond along with this one university cop. So what exactly was it that unicop was doing at the scene? What specifically? No way in hell would *I* as a supervisor/manager insert an "unknown" officer into one of my tactical teams. No way in hell would I trust him to handle any of the OIS crime scene management chores. He ain't riding to the hospital with my guy, he ain't riding to the hospital with the suspect, and he ain't taking charge of any witnesses or suspects. So what is it that he is doing other that "sightseeing" and sticking his nose into something above and beyond his boring life as a "unicop."

Just my two cents, but I call 'em as I see 'em.....

Rice PD is extremely strict about their officers leaving campus including places for lunch. No doubt this officer knew this. Was he told no due to distance and other agencies responding but went anyway? Why wouldn't you notify SOMEONE that you are enroute to an OIS/active shooter? I bet Metro, HPD, Pct 1 Constable and HCSO were there in less than a minute. We probably won't ever get the full story.

Mayhem like Me
05-29-2011, 01:14
I call BS that they did not know he was gone... If the supervisor is that inept he should be disciplined as well..

I say a 16 hour rip ...

Did he call it out on the radio that he was responding? too many questions for me at this time.

rookie1
05-29-2011, 02:01
I wouldn't doubt the university here would have the same response. They tend to look for things to nail people on. Two officers who have been fired received a chunk of cash after wrongfully being terminated and the union fighting for them. I had a issue come up where a pursuit came through my town thanks to another GT member. Dispatch asked if anyone was close and I said I was. They then stated that XXXXX agency has a vehicle not stopping and was going east through town. I never said I was responding only copied their radio traffic, which to me would mean I understand and was heading that way but whatever. In the use of force review they were only upset that I never told anyone I was actually getting involved. They told me to not do it again and have a nice day.

DaBigBR
05-29-2011, 06:06
I wouldn't doubt the university here would have the same response. They tend to look for things to nail people on. Two officers who have been fired received a chunk of cash after wrongfully being terminated and the union fighting for them. I had a issue come up where a pursuit came through my town thanks to another GT member. Dispatch asked if anyone was close and I said I was. They then stated that XXXXX agency has a vehicle not stopping and was going east through town. I never said I was responding only copied their radio traffic, which to me would mean I understand and was heading that way but whatever. In the use of force review they were only upset that I never told anyone I was actually getting involved. They told me to not do it again and have a nice day.

Wonder who that was...

steveksux
05-29-2011, 07:23
Wonder who that was...Given someone had to be driving the car from XXXX agency I think we can rule out an Empty PD..... :rofl: Besides the fact they weren't throwing bullets out the window as they unloaded their primary service weapon in case they had to go hands on...

Randy

FiremanMike
05-29-2011, 09:29
I don't remember seeing this posted here.... Basically a Rice University police officer got canned because he responded to an OIS, off campus, because a Houston PD officer was down. Dereliction of duty is the claim... :upeyes:

What are we coming to as a race?

Link (http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/110525-rice-police-officer-fired-for-leaving-post)

I have worked for a chief that was almost this restrictive. I think he would have made an exception for an aired officer down, but short of that.. no go..

txleapd
05-29-2011, 10:44
I haven't heard much more from HPD guys. Apparently the OIS scene was at a bus station less than 3 miles from the university, and the officer was off post less than an hour.

I understand the need to inform his supervisor of where he was going, but the guy was close to a report of officers being down, and apparently didn't dilly dally at the scene. If the guy deserves a butt chewing for leaving his post, then so be it. But firing? There are definitely extenuating circumstances. There's even a good chance that he was a lot closer than many other HPD units. I'm sorry, but around here EVERYONE responds to an ONA, regardless of the agency/department.

I've heard that the Mayor of Houston isn't too happy about it either. There have been budget cuts, and she has fought to keep officers from being laid off. She has also been preaching inter-agency cooperation as a force multiplier. Firing this Rice officer flies in the face of that.

If the guy was a screw up, I'd have to bet we would have heard about it by now. The university has been catching heat over this, and I doubt they would spare this guy's reputation over their own.

If Rice ever expects help, should something blow up on their campus, they need to learn to work with other local departments. How can they expect others to rush to help their guys, if they fire their own for rushing to help others? It's a crappy situation, and apparently not an uncommon mindset for a lot of university departments.

We are lucky. The universities here play well with others, and we work with them all the time. We even train with the largest university in crowd control. The football games around here bring 100,000+ people into the stadium, and easily that much into the surrounding area for tailgating and such. If something broke out, we would need to work together and we realize that. I guess it helps that their Chief used to work for us.

I hope everything works put for guy...

Kahr_Glockman
05-29-2011, 12:14
UTPD has an incredible reputation in the area. When they had the incident back in September with that kid shooting up the campus, I was downtown at Seton Medical Center on 38th street. The APD helicopter was circling and the news showed the cooperation between APD and UTPD. I was impressed.

Rice needs to take a page from UT and get with the program.

trdvet
05-29-2011, 12:54
Rice needs to take a page from UT and get with the program.

UT-Houston is less than a mile from Rice. Last time I check no one liked working with Rice due to training. It's a fact that their training Sgt (don't know if he still is) would take other training programs from instructors in the area and claim them as his own. Truly a legend in his own mind.

lawman800
05-29-2011, 15:29
Sounds about right for a small minded individual ruining a good program.

dano1427
05-29-2011, 15:37
Two HPD Officers shot, he is three miles out, and he, according to Rice PD, should do nothing? Apparently, Rice PD doesnt have a steller reputation for treating its Officers well, and to fire an 11 year veteren? Nonsense.....

PinkoCommie
05-29-2011, 20:55
I don't know if HPD is hiring or laying off right now, but it sounds like they should make the guy an offer if feasible.

madecov
05-30-2011, 00:27
Rice PD is extremely strict about their officers leaving campus including places for lunch. No doubt this officer knew this. Was he told no due to distance and other agencies responding but went anyway? Why wouldn't you notify SOMEONE that you are enroute to an OIS/active shooter? I bet Metro, HPD, Pct 1 Constable and HCSO were there in less than a minute. We probably won't ever get the full story.


I know at least Metro was right there as things occurred.
Imagine how things will go down when and if Rice has a problem and needs outside help.

I can almost guarantee Rice PD is not equipped to handle an active shooter

slama683
05-30-2011, 00:55
Well, it could be worse...

Last I knew, the campus police for the University of Nebraska Kearney were not allowed to carry guns at all. So, the officer would have to drive to the station, get the armory unlocked, find and load his gun, and then respond.

University chancellors, ain't they a hoot.

lawman800
05-30-2011, 02:49
Well, it could be worse...

Last I knew, the campus police for the University of Nebraska Kearney were not allowed to carry guns at all. So, the officer would have to drive to the station, get the armory unlocked, find and load his gun, and then respond.

University chancellors, ain't they a hoot.

There are two local college police departments that don't carry on duty, period. The officers show up to work with their off-duty guns, disarm, then put on the uniform and go to work. They have no duty guns, period.

If something went down, they would just retreat, period. Their policy doesn't allow them to even go to their lockers to get their off duty weapon to respond. I talked to one of their guys and he unofficially stated that he knew there is a practice of strapping on an ankle gun to maintain the appearance of them being unarmed but that is for their own survival and they will face the consequences after the fact.

Their officers have been appealing for decades to the Regents with no luck and they are hiring now with a big huge "this is an unarmed department" on their posting.:crying:

groovyash
05-30-2011, 04:23
There are two local college police departments that don't carry on duty, period. The officers show up to work with their off-duty guns, disarm, then put on the uniform and go to work. They have no duty guns, period.

If something went down, they would just retreat, period. Their policy doesn't allow them to even go to their lockers to get their off duty weapon to respond. I talked to one of their guys and he unofficially stated that he knew there is a practice of strapping on an ankle gun to maintain the appearance of them being unarmed but that is for their own survival and they will face the consequences after the fact.

Their officers have been appealing for decades to the Regents with no luck and they are hiring now with a big huge "this is an unarmed department" on their posting.:crying:

Just insane.

Our big U.P.D. in the area actually started carrying patrol ARs before we did. Thankfully not everyone is that backwards in thinking.

use2b6L32
05-31-2011, 01:37
Rice fires officer it says left campus to go to standoff

By MIKE GLENN HOUSTON CHRONICLE

May 26, 2011, 9:57PM

Rice University officials fired one of their police officers who left the campus to join other law enforcement officers at an armed standoff with a man who shot two HPD officers before turning the gun on himself.

The former officer, David Sedmak, was terminated for dereliction of duty, officials said. "Sedmak left his post when only two other officers were on duty," Rice University officials said in a statement. Sedmak said on Thursday he would have to get his attorney's approval before he commented about the firing.

On May 7, Jesse Brown, 20, was spotted with a pistol as he tried to buy a ticket at the Greyhound station at 2121 Main. Houston police Officer Fernando Meza, working an off-duty job at the bus station, confronted Brown about the pistol. He refused the officer's commands and began shooting. Meza returned fire but was struck in the hand. Brown darted toward a nearby McDonald's and exchanged gunfire with another HPD officer, Timothy Moore, who was hit in the leg. After shooting both HPD officers, Brown ran to the Amegy Bank parking garage on St. Joseph Parkway at Fannin.

At some point, Sedmak drove from Rice University to the scene of the standoff, about 3 miles away, and didn't tell his supervisor where he was for nearly an hour, officials said. Sedmak's absence "could have endangered the safety of our students and campus," according to the Rice University statement.

Brown exchanged gunfire inside the garage with responding police SWAT officers. His body was found about two hours later with an apparent self-inflicted gunshot wound to the head. Meza and Moore were both treated at Memorial Hermann Hospital and released on the same evening.

An HPD spokesman later Thursday said Meza was back on duty but didn't immediately know Moore's status.


Read more: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/7583616.html?+Texas%29#ixzz1Nuf5WNbv



I'm on a Facebook group called "Big City Cops (https://www.facebook.com/BigCityCops)" and some of us sent msgs to Sedmak voicing support for him. Sedmak posted that he did indeed notify the on-duty supervisor and that he has proof of doing so.

lawman800
05-31-2011, 02:13
I hope he brings it and makes Rice eat crow.

txleapd
05-31-2011, 05:24
I'm on a Facebook group called "Big City Cops (https://www.facebook.com/BigCityCops)" and some of us sent msgs to Sedmak voicing support for him. Sedmak posted that he did indeed notify the on-duty supervisor and that he has proof of doing so.

Please keep us updated. You apparently have an inside track that I don't.

Please let Sedmak know he's got a lot of support. If he has what he says he does, I hope he publically humiliates the Rice administration.

Kadetklapp
05-31-2011, 06:30
*ETA for clarification*
I work with a girl up here at the courthouse who is a court administrator (Bailiff) for one of our courts. Her sister is one of the other Rice University officers who was on-duty. She remained on campus because they needed coverage. Her shift partner, Sedmak, went to the OIS scene because he is a counter-sniper/SRT guy and figured they could use the help.

Rice University treats their officers like dirt. Basically Rice PD is top-heavy with shady characters typically found on University PDs*. My understanding is that Sedmak is a stand-up guy who got boned because he had the kahunas to go and help. The campus was not in any danger, and officers remained behind for coverage.







*Certainly not all brass is bad on University PDs, but having worked for one, and worked with several, that seems to be the theme in my AO.

SpoiledBySig
05-31-2011, 06:46
I call BS that they did not know he was gone... If the supervisor is that inept he should be disciplined as well..

I say a 16 hour rip ...

Did he call it out on the radio that he was responding? too many questions for me at this time.


Thank you.

I do now supervise (Watch Commander) a University Police Dept. and I no doubt call B.S.!

You mean there's no way on earth, while the officer was enroute, he could have advised, via radio, where he was going and what he was doing?

While I appreciate deeply the cop was on his way to help a brother cop...there's definitely much more to this story.

Does everybody here go to their calls unannounced without dispatch at least knowing? Nobody advises the dispatcher anything for an hour and a half?

razdog76
05-31-2011, 08:04
Nobody advises the dispatcher anything for an hour and a half?

Sadly, I have some coworkers that may fit into that category.:whistling:

SpoiledBySig
05-31-2011, 08:09
Sadly, I have some coworkers that may fit into that category.:whistling:

I hear you. These guys (and gals) call me on my cell phone every minute of the day (even when I'm off duty) to either determine if they have to do paperwork/reports, or if they have to leave early for an appointment, or if there is a problem at home.

So, they're now telling me you can leave the campus, for like an hour, without advising me, or the dispatcher? Something is very wrong if that's the story.

MeefZah
05-31-2011, 09:06
I'm on a Facebook group called "Big City Cops (https://www.facebook.com/BigCityCops)" and some of us sent msgs to Sedmak voicing support for him. Sedmak posted that he did indeed notify the on-duty supervisor and that he has proof of doing so.

I'm not on Facebook but please let him know he has a lot of "non-Facebookian" support out there.

madcitycop
05-31-2011, 09:25
"nearly an hour"??!! on an OIS scene when youre that close an hour feels like 30 seconds. who cares what his file was like?? I don't care if this guy was the worst cop on the department he responded to an OIS with AN OFFICER DOWN! This is the problem when a collegiate administration runs a department and not a real cop. Houston should put him straight into field training. When I was with my old city if I got in an OIS and was down and University PD were that close and didnt respond as soon as I got checked out I'd be kicking someones ass.

madcitycop
05-31-2011, 09:35
I hear you. These guys (and gals) call me on my cell phone every minute of the day (even when I'm off duty) to either determine if they have to do paperwork/reports, or if they have to leave early for an appointment, or if there is a problem at home.

So, they're now telling me you can leave the campus, for like an hour, without advising me, or the dispatcher? Something is very wrong if that's the story.

so you'd fire one of your guys for this?

SpoiledBySig
05-31-2011, 09:45
"nearly an hour"??!! on an OIS scene when youre that close an hour feels like 30 seconds. who cares what his file was like?? I don't care if this guy was the worst cop on the department he responded to an OIS with AN OFFICER DOWN! This is the problem when a collegiate administration runs a department and not a real cop. Houston should put him straight into field training. When I was with my old city if I got in an OIS and was down and University PD were that close and didnt respond as soon as I got checked out I'd be kicking someones ass.

Dude, if I heard an, "Officer Down" call very near my adjoining agency...I send every officer and myself along to help out. Where I'm at now, we don't share the same radio frequency with the department of the city we are in, unless they want us to.

You're telling me that while you're enroute, you can't advise your dispatcher even?

As far as this officer's file...I have no idea what it is.

As far as the problem with the college administration (University Police), we have all kinds, just like when I was with the city for so many years. We have a couple real good proactive cops who are just aching to join a nearby city department (and I am sure they will be hired when there is an opening).

We also have "deadbeats" who's primary function is just to beat the system (it seems like)...welcome to police dept. anywhere USA, it takes all kinds.

Like I said, I don't mind, in fact I'd be proud of any officer leaving to help a brother/sister officer in trouble. I still think he could have said something enroute at least like where he's going. I think that may be what the issue is.

What if something were to happen to him at the scene, or if his vehicle was crashed on the way? Who would know?:dunno:

razdog76
05-31-2011, 11:04
What if something were to happen to him at the scene, or if his vehicle was crashed on the way? Who would know?:dunno:

The agency's insurance may not cover it.

When I worked in a small town, this was a consideration because if your assistance is requested then you would be "deputized," and covered under the wing of the requesting agency.

Now that I work for a county, the small towns are in my jurisdiction, and a part of my job is assisting them. I don't have to be requested, because their towns are in my jurisdiction.

As several members have indicated, not all of the facts in this case have been made public, other than the termination.

use2b6L32
05-31-2011, 11:56
As has been covered, his foul was not notifying his Sgt (which he says he did).

Even if he didn't, it's not worthy of firing him. A write-up or a day on the beach, sure.

But not being fired.

lawman800
05-31-2011, 12:29
Jurisdictional crap aside, in CA we are peace officers anywhere in the state as it relates to our primary function is to uphold the law and to prevent the escape of the perpetrator.

Except for the UC and CalState police which has their jurisdiction limited by law explicitly to a 1 mile radius around their property, I don't see where we would not jump on a call to help an officer who puts out a 999 if we are a few minutes away.

Sharky7
05-31-2011, 15:19
I don't have a problem giving someone time off/fired that has bad intentions when they did their dirty deed. This appears to be good intentions responding to an officer in immediate need of assistance.

Media should be able to figure this one out quickly. FOIA request all the MDT traffic and Radio traffic. Should be able to tell quickly if he had advised his boss or not.

MeefZah
05-31-2011, 16:57
I don't have a problem giving someone time off/fired that has bad intentions when they did their dirty deed. This appears to be good intentions responding to an officer in immediate need of assistance.

Media should be able to figure this one out quickly. FOIA request all the MDT traffic and Radio traffic. Should be able to tell quickly if he had advised his boss or not.

Dunno about Texas, but in Ohio private entities, which a non-state supported university is, don't have to comply with FOIA requests.

If his boss's are being ******s, there is no reason they won't just say: "No" to any requests.

use2b6L32
06-07-2011, 20:09
Here's an update (http://www.khou.com/news/local/Fellow-lawmen-fight-for-fired-Rice-University-police-officer-123250583.html) on the story. FWIW, I think the "chief" is a disgrace. Sedmak is a good cop and the "chief" isn't fit to carry his jock.

The shooting scene was two minutes away from Rice jurisdiction.

Fellow lawmen were fighting Monday to help a Rice University police officer get his job back after he was fired for responding to an off-campus "officer down" call. Officer David Sedmak’s trouble began when he heard a radio call on May 7 about a shooting at a downtown Houston Greyhound station.

After learning that an officer had been shot, Sedmak left the campus – two minutes away from the scene – and rushed to the scene to help.

Two HPD officers were wounded by the gunman outside the Greyhound station. Other officers took cover behind the Rice officer’s car, so they wouldn’t get shot, too.

But while those officers said Sedmak was a hero, Rice University fired him for dereliction of duty.

Rice, a private university, doesn’t have to answer to a police officers’ union. But those officers made their case anyway in a press conference Monday morning.

"We think he should be commended for this, and definitely not terminated," Officer Ray Hunt said.

The Houston Police Officers Union and several other law enforcement agencies showed up in support of Sedmak and even gave him a $2,500 check to help pay his mortgage.

"David Sedmak is a hero for what he did. Going to the aid of a fellow officer – two fellow officers. And for him to be treated by Rice University the way that he has is unconscionable," Kevin Lawrence of the Texas Municipal Police Association said.

Sedmak, a former Galveston police officer, took the job at Rice three years ago so his kids would have a chance to go there for college.
"Quite frankly, I couldn’t believe that after being in law enforcement for nearly 17 years, I was being relieved of my duty for running to assist another officer," Sedmak said.

After the press conference, Rice University issued a statement similar to what they’ve said before about the incident.

The university said Sedmak left his post when only two other officers were on duty and failed to notify his supervisor of his whereabouts for nearly an hour.

Rice said his absence could have put students or the campus in danger.
University officials said their police officers frequently assist other agencies in areas near the campus, but on a case-by-case basis.

They said Rice officers have responded to calls for help from external agencies 37 times so far in 2011.

"In all instances, Rice officers are required to promptly notify the RUPD dispatcher of their location and the situation, and they have portable radios and mobile radios in their police vehicles for that purpose. All radio transmissions are recorded, logged and monitored by the Rice police sergeant on duty. This enables the sergeant to monitor the situation to ensure that the officer is safe when responding to calls off campus, and also to ensure that enough officers are on duty on campus to protect the safety of our students and employees," the Rice statement read.
Sedmak said he alerted his supervisors by radio.

Either way, he wants his job back.

use2b6L32
06-07-2011, 20:20
WTH! Damned bastard!

Police seek stolen police gun from downtown SWAT scene

by khou.com staff

Posted on May 9, 2011 at 5:41 PM
Updated Monday, May 9 at 5:41 PM

HOUSTON – Police are asking for the public’s help in finding a person who took a wounded police officer’s gun during a shootout in downtown Houston on Saturday.

HPD Officer Fernando Meza dropped his weapon after being shot in the hand by Jesse Brown outside the Greyhound Bus Station in the 2121 block of Main Street.

Police said Meza was trying to question Brown at the downtown Houston bus station after a screener spotted a gun in his bag.

Meza, a two-year veteran of the force, followed Brown outside, demanded his bag, then used a Taser in a failed effort to subdue him, HPD spokesman John Cannon said. That’s when Brown fired a shot at Meza, who got hit in the hand and dropped his gun.

Police said a witness reports seeing a man from inside the terminal walk outside and pick up the weapon. The unidentified suspect then fled the scene.

Police said the gun is a black .40 caliber Sig-Sauer automatic pistol.
Anyone with information on the gun’s location is asked to call HPD Homicide at (713) 308-3600.

Police said the person responsible could face a felony tampering with evidence charge.

txleapd
06-07-2011, 20:29
Two HPD officers were wounded by the gunman outside the Greyhound station. Other officers took cover behind the Rice officer’s car, so they wouldn’t get shot, too.

It seems that he showed up in the thick of it, and helped save fellow officers... I'm even more impressed that he stayed on scene for less than an hour. I probably would have spent longer than that cleaning out my drawers.

MeefZah
06-07-2011, 20:33
This story is now one of the featured headlines on Yahoo news, so maybe it will get more people behind him, and send a message to Rice to nut up and reinstate him.

redneck1861
06-07-2011, 21:50
Two HPD officers were wounded by the gunman outside the Greyhound station. Other officers took cover behind the Rice officer’s car, so they wouldn’t get shot, too.

It seems that he showed up in the thick of it, and helped save fellow officers... I'm even more impressed that he stayed on scene for less than an hour. I probably would have spent longer than that cleaning out my drawers.


So he was there while there was still shooting going on? Then he needs to be recgonized for risking his life to help Officers outside of his duty's. When an OIS and Officer down comes through the radio, everyone that is close is going to respond even if it is another Dept.

lawman800
06-08-2011, 00:13
If Rice PD is putting it out there that all radio transmissions are recorded then let's hear it and clear it up once and for all if he called or not. What is this? Obama's birth certificate? Show it and get it done!

redneck1861
06-08-2011, 00:37
If Rice PD is putting it out there that all radio transmissions are recorded then let's hear it and clear it up once and for all if he called or not. What is this? Obama's birth certificate? Show it and get it done!


From what I have heard he was the first responder to the OIS, the city guys used the Campus patrol car as a barricade because the suspect was still alive and shooting at the police. Calling dispatch is the least concern when someone is trying to kill you. What is unclear is how long after the Rice PD arrived did it take to secure the scene? Did he fire any shots? Even if he didnt fire shots, he was just shot at, and saw the suspect shot. I have never been involved in a shootout, but I imagine it had him worked up.

Either way he should not have been fired. He should put in for HPD

lawman800
06-08-2011, 00:40
Officer says he did put it out to his sergeant. His sergeant says no. Someone is lying.

Btw, if it was us and any of our guys didn't respond 2 minutes away to a shooting in progress where officers from another jurisdiction are down, I think the Chief would fire us for not going!

redneck1861
06-08-2011, 00:53
Officer says he did put it out to his sergeant. His sergeant says no. Someone is lying.

Btw, if it was us and any of our guys didn't respond 2 minutes away to a shooting in progress where officers from another jurisdiction are down, I think the Chief would fire us for not going!


Well it is a campus PD. I know it sounds bad, but I tend to have less respect for some campus guys here.

lawman800
06-08-2011, 00:56
I know a campus cop that was fired for cowardice. It's all from the top down. If your chief backs you and wants you to be a cop first and window dressing a distant second, then you will act accordingly.

AggiePhil
06-08-2011, 01:08
When major incidents like this take place, it is generally understood that all nearby officers will respond Code 3. It is also generally understood that radio traffic should be held for the officers directly involved in the incident ONLY. The last thing you want to be doing when responding to something like this is monkeying with your radio channel selector. You need to get to the scene YESTERDAY and while you're en route, you need to hear EVERYTHING that the involved officers might be transmitting. Period.

In my opinion, the officer did nothing wrong with the initial response. He was two minutes away and had no time to jack with his campus radio. His dispatchers should have sent all their units to that incident and should have known that any units who were scanning city traffic would already be en route code 3. After things on scene settled down a bit, he probably should have gotten on his portable and said, "XXX dispatch, I wasn't able to advise but I've been out at XXX with HPD for about 20 minutes now."

lawman800
06-08-2011, 01:34
The main agency involved will have the Code 33 hold all traffic but you still have the tac channels. Besides, he is not on their frequency, he is on his own Rice PD channel and will not disrupt HPD if he transmits it.

Depending on how their dispatch is trained, they should have heard any nearby calls of emergent nature repeated by their own dispatch.

We will hear the beeping alert tone followed by the message from our own dispatch that so-and-so agency has whatever going on in whatever area so we are all aware and don't drive right into it or something.

m2hmghb
06-08-2011, 05:00
I'm wondering if the officer was on HPD frequency when he put the call out for on scene. You could forget to turn the radio to the proper frequency in the middle of that.

MeefZah
06-08-2011, 08:18
Besides, he is not on their frequency, he is on his own Rice PD channel and will not disrupt HPD if he transmits it.


If I'm intently scanning another agency's traffic while responding 27 (that's Ohio for Code 3 you California lurch :tongueout: ) then I'm not going to transmit on my frequency... it breaks up the scan pattern and it will be 45 seconds before I am able to listen to what I need to hear again, and that's assuming the dispatcher doesn't have a delayed response to me or have something stupid to say that has no bearing on what is going on. 45 seconds is a long time when the other channel might be airing traffic relative to officer safety and suspect info.

I'm gonna keep my mouth shut, the radio turned all the way up, and my wickie wickies flashing as I haul ass to get there.

lawman800
06-08-2011, 09:02
If I'm intently scanning another agency's traffic while responding 27 (that's Ohio for Code 3 you California lurch :tongueout: ) then I'm not going to transmit on my frequency... it breaks up the scan pattern and it will be 45 seconds before I am able to listen to what I need to hear again, and that's assuming the dispatcher doesn't have a delayed response to me or have something stupid to say that has no bearing on what is going on. 45 seconds is a long time when the other channel might be airing traffic relative to officer safety and suspect info.

I'm gonna keep my mouth shut, the radio turned all the way up, and my wickie wickies flashing as I haul ass to get there.

Hmmm... That was my thought... Was he actually tuned to HPD? We have active scanning and it automatically goes to active broadcasts but anytime we press a button, it transmits on our primary. Some guys (on graves) also take an extra handheld and leave it on a neighboring channel while having the car radio on primary.

redneck1861
06-08-2011, 19:42
Hmmm... That was my thought... Was he actually tuned to HPD? We have active scanning and it automatically goes to active broadcasts but anytime we press a button, it transmits on our primary. Some guys (on graves) also take an extra handheld and leave it on a neighboring channel while having the car radio on primary.

There are several dept's here that actually have 2 radios and 2 mic's in the car, plus the portable. One is set for just the officer's dept. and one set to the next city.

Since I can only do ride-alongs right now due to my injury, I ride with my uncle that is the Capt. in a very small town, the town is only 1 square mile. But in that 1 square mile, there are 4 strip clubs the town is actually inside of OKC. On the average Friday or Saturday night, 10-12 people are arrested for DUI, thats the only reason there is PD. We monitor the OKCPD district that is closest to us on a independent radio. All calls go through OKC, but if is us they just foward the call. If "Officer Down" comes though, the Capt. will drive 10 miles outside of jurisdiction to help if needed. As will every LEO in the area.

Thankfully I have not heard officer down, but I imagine it is hectic. 1 time we responded to an officer that accidently hit the panic button. There were atleast 30 cars running code within 5 minutes

Kadetklapp
06-09-2011, 14:35
I don't know what kind of radio system they use down there, and I"m too lazy to look it up right now, but here we use P25 800MHz. You can set up your own scan list on your portable or mobile radio. I typically just listen to my agency, but if something interesting happens, or if it's a hopping day, i will switch my portable around to include the city PD talkgroups on my scan list, or ISP, or both. A while back when the Sons of Sodomy, er, silence came to town and tried to start a riot at the hospital, we came from all over hell's half acre. I did not talk on the radio, since it went signal 100 for a while. I simply requested to know over MDT if I should go, and if so, where. Then I went on my merry way.