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1SGMP
06-01-2011, 07:18
Any depts out there switching their duty weapon the the S&W M&P? If so I just wanted your take on the transition and how your dept has adaptede to this weapon so far. we are currently issued the Sig 226/229 DAK in 40
thanks
1SG

CJStudent
06-01-2011, 07:44
KY Fish and Wildlife's Conservation Officers switched to it a little while back from older S&W autos; I forget what model they carried.

txleapd
06-01-2011, 08:26
Any depts out there switching their duty weapon the the S&W M&P? If so I just wanted your take on the transition and how your dept has adaptede to this weapon so far. we are currently issued the Sig 226/229 DAK in 40
thanks
1SG

We're about to get issued them. I don't know how they're going to go about it. I guess they'll just call us out to the range, in groups, put us through an 8 hour course, have us qualify, and then send us out to fight evil. :dunno:

OXCOPS
06-01-2011, 08:27
I carried a 226DAK in .357SIG for a few years. Still have it and will never part with it. That said, I have heard far more good things than bad about the M&P series. So much so that I considered adding one to my collection if I wander across the cash.

Jayman
06-01-2011, 08:27
I'd love to hear more from a department level instructor or armorer. I know Prince George's County, MD, did it a while back. The officers seem OK with it, but that is just anecdotal, don't have any firm info from higher ups.

OXCOPS
06-01-2011, 08:28
We're about to get issued them. I don't know how they're going to go about it. I guess they'll just call us out to the range, in groups, put us through an 8 hour course, have us qualify, and then send us out to fight evil. :dunno:

8 hours? Feel lucky you got that much. :rofl:

merlynusn
06-01-2011, 09:17
Our department issues them. When they switched, they tested it with something like 30,000 rounds to see if it held up. No issues that I'm aware of. I'm not aware of any major issues with our M&Ps.

Morris
06-01-2011, 15:47
Give a call to the Edmonds (WA) PD. They were one of the first in the nation to transition from three issued guns (one of them a Sig) to all with the M&P .40. They will give you all the details. Overall, they have been satisfied with the transition.

razdog76
06-01-2011, 17:44
Columbus, Ohio.

pgg00
06-01-2011, 17:44
A couple of partners of mine carry them. I shot one of theirs. Made the hi-point trigger seem like a dream.

razdog76
06-01-2011, 18:00
The triggers really do shoot in, and smooth up. I have grown accustomed to the distinct reset the Glocks and Sigs have, so the standard M&P trigger isn't very exciting.

The M&P Pro series has a tool steel sear, and the trigger is pretty decent for a duty pistol out of the box. I almost bought one, but mistakenly bought a gen 4 G23 instead.

Vigilant
06-01-2011, 20:13
We like 'em at NCDOC. Very few issues transitioning from the crappy M65s to the M&P40s. Qual scores increased also. Of course, we still have a few rocket scientists who refer to their trusty M&P40 as a 'revolvah'. :upeyes:

txleapd
06-01-2011, 20:31
8 hours? Feel lucky you got that much. :rofl:

I'm probably being generous.... :dunno:

msu_grad_121
06-01-2011, 21:46
Detroit PD, and a few guys I know used them in the academy. Apparently, they had nothing but problems (the academy guns). Not sure why, but I know a TON of failure to go into batteries, some mag issues (apparently the catch would release halfway through a mag), and I guess they started stove piping on heavy ammo days. :dunno:

Vigilant
06-01-2011, 22:10
Detroit PD, and a few guys I know used them in the academy. Apparently, they had nothing but problems (the academy guns). Not sure why, but I know a TON of failure to go into batteries, some mag issues (apparently the catch would release halfway through a mag), and I guess they started stove piping on heavy ammo days. :dunno:

We had some of that early on, especially the mag catch issues, but they seem to have worked the bugs out of them now. I'm thinking seriously about buying one for personal use.

CW Mock
06-02-2011, 02:25
Been carrying one for several years now, and its never had any problems. My experience seems to be the common one in my agency. We switched about the same time the New Mexico State Police did. We went .40, they went .357 Sig.

Overall scores went up in my experience for the guys I train. We came from a 4006, and while a good pistol, it was heavy and not exactly "one size fits all" like the M&P is.

There are a lot worse guns to carry. Been good to us. My only complaint so far is that the parkerizing seems to be wearing thin on mine. No rust or anything, but its looking a bit more dark gray/silver than black on the metalwork. Oh, the finish and spare magazines are stupid expensive compared to some other brands.

txleapd
06-02-2011, 08:18
I hear a lot of guys who say they've never had any problems with them, and I'm very happy for them. My department started making the cadets buy them for the academy about 4 years ago. They had a tons of problems with critical FTF. The slide stops were breaking, mag release problems, and a couple just locked up. S&W sent reps out to tue academy. The majority of the cadets got rid of them as soon as the graduated, because they didn't trust them.

When we were told that they were going to issue us all the gun, and we would have to carry it, I voiced my concerns. I was told that S&W had fixed those problems and made some design changes....

That still doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy. I had never been a huge fan of S&W autos before, I'm plain distrustful now. IMHO, I think they rushed the gun into service, and they used us a beta testers. I don't appreciate that.

I also don't understand why S&W gets a pass, when other manufacturers would have dragged through the mud for doing the same thing.

Ducowti
06-02-2011, 09:23
>>> Confirmed single-incident issue: slide lock broke on my colleague's M&P 40 recently, no idea how. Has never been dropped and the deputy is easy on his weapons, other than shooting a lot.

That said, I shoot my duty and BUG/OD weekly (full size and 40c, respectively) and have had no problems and really like the weapons. The only issue of which I'm aware on any scale is the grip tool being force-twisted back into the grip the wrong way, which bends the plastic locking tab.

DaBigBR
06-02-2011, 10:07
Our academy had one for T&E in early 2006, the first one that I had seen in the flesh. One day Smith and Wesson just sent them a new slide with instructions to swap it and return the old one. I can't remember now what the differences were, but they were minute. The overall impression was that S&W was doing everything they could to make the gun succeed. The 3rd gen autos obviously were past their time and the Sigma was a total flop as an LE gun. Given what I have seen over the last five years now, I would say that the M&P is overall a success.

Iowa State Patrol began adopting them in late 2006 and currently have about four hundred of them out there (maybe more like 350 since they can't hire anybody and have 1960s and 1970s staff levels) and I have heard of no significant problems. The university police in our county have them as well and have since 2008. They have an authorized strength of 44, but run through people so quickly that they have probably been through thirty officers since then, so some of those guns have been to the academy maybe three times, which is a fairly high round count for an LE gun.

I personally own a full size 9mm and .45 and both shoot very well and have been trouble free. The triggers do get much better in them after maybe 500 rounds or so. When I first bought them I shot the 9mm quite a bit more and the difference between the two triggers with 500-750 on the 9mm and 200-250 on the .45 was obvious. If you really don't like the trigger, buy the APEX kit. It's relatively cheap and everybody sings its praises.

ETA: In my department we collectively own:
M&P9 x4
M&P40 x2
M&P9c x1
M&P40c x1
M&P45 x1

No issues with the guns that our guys own.

ditchdoc24
06-02-2011, 10:20
I've been carrying a M&P9 for about 2 years now. When I got hired, I had never laid a finger on one before and I've been very happy with my Glocks up until that point. I have to say that I like the M&P series quite a bit. The trigger feels a lot like my Glock and the gun is easy to shoot. I've been contemplating getting a pistol in .45 for a while now and my short list is down to the M&P 45 and the Glock 21.

All of the departments in the county I work in carry S&W M&P pistols. The SO carries the 9mm like we do, one of the city departments carries the M&P 40 and another city department carries the M&P 45.

DaBigBR
06-02-2011, 12:48
I've been carrying a M&P9 for about 2 years now. When I got hired, I had never laid a finger on one before and I've been very happy with my Glocks up until that point. I have to say that I like the M&P series quite a bit. The trigger feels a lot like my Glock and the gun is easy to shoot. I've been contemplating getting a pistol in .45 for a while now and my short list is down to the M&P 45 and the Glock 21.

All of the departments in the county I work in carry S&W M&P pistols. The SO carries the 9mm like we do, one of the city departments carries the M&P 40 and another city department carries the M&P 45.

Between those two I would go with the 21SF. I find that the grip on the M&P45, while closer in size to the M&P9 then the Glock 12 is to the 17, is larger enough that the loss of three rounds in the M&P over the Glock is not worth the gain in the grip department (if that makes sense). The 21SF is still a fat *****, but it's very manageable.

kpuscg04
06-02-2011, 17:40
Its not currently on our authorized list, but my understanding is its being evaluated. We're issued SIG 229's, and I'm a big fan of them. However, if given the opportunity I will purchase and carry the M&P 40 the day they get authorized.

I have never met an officer that did not like theirs or had any problems with theirs.

R.TOKER
06-16-2011, 20:30
I own the M&P9 full size and the M&P45 in the "midsize" i.e. 4" barrel with full size frame. In my experience the M&P is a great pistol. I've never experienced any type of failure with either pistol. My agency is currently in the process of switching to the M&P40. Our current issue Sig P226 pistols look like they were machined by a blind man, plain trash!!

redneck1861
06-16-2011, 21:00
I currently don't carry a M&P, however the boss thinks we shouldn't carry our own guns anymore, he is torn between getting us Beretta 92's or the M&P 9mm PRO.

I have shot many M&P's, they are popular in competition shooting, not quite as popular as Glock's yet. They are good guns, pretty reliable. I cant speak on the factory trigger though, because I have only shot ones with a competition trigger.

My uncle is a firearms instructor and M&P armorer, but he wouldn't be much help since around here most LEO's carry a Glock

razdog76
06-16-2011, 21:16
...the boss thinks we shouldn't carry our own guns anymore, he is torn between getting us Beretta 92's or the M&P 9mm PRO.

Why is that, does he have a huge bank roll to buy the guns, maintenance, new holsters, and ready to deal with people unhappy with a particular gun fits their hand?

Silly, let the individual carry what they a comfortable with, and saddle the individual officer with their own weapons maintenance eliminating overhead, inventory, maintenance, cost, and *****ing.

DaBigBR
06-16-2011, 21:46
I currently don't carry a M&P, however the boss thinks we shouldn't carry our own guns anymore, he is torn between getting us Beretta 92's or the M&P 9mm PRO.

Why is that, does he have a huge bank roll to buy the guns, maintenance, new holsters, and ready to deal with people unhappy with a particular gun fits their hand?

Silly, let the individual carry what they a comfortable with, and saddle the individual officer with their own weapons maintenance eliminating overhead, inventory, maintenance, cost, and *****ing.

Not only that, but to be caught deciding between what most of us would consider something of an antique (the 92) and a purpose built competition gun (with a fiber optic front sight) is particularly puzzling.

JohnnyReb
06-16-2011, 21:59
Any depts out there switching their duty weapon the the S&W M&P? If so I just wanted your take on the transition and how your dept has adaptede to this weapon so far. we are currently issued the Sig 226/229 DAK in 40
thanks
1SG

We went with the M&P 40, and have had just about every issue that has been reported with the early models. We were one of the first agencies to adopt the weapon, and with our early models, I have no confidence in the weapon. In my opinion, its more complicated, more fragile, and has a terrible trigger when compared to Glock.

I'm not just a Glock fanboy either, we had Beretta 96Ds before the M&Ps, and our scores across the agency went down for qualifications. We also experienced very, very few problems with the Beretta, and 90% of those problems were user induced.

As far as the Beretta 92, I'd carry one in a second. I really like Berettas.

From what I have read, the new M&Ps are fine, but I'll never have confidence in one. During my firearms class, one of the instructors asked for the officers that had problems with their weapon during the one week course to raise their hand. Over have the class raised their hand. He that said " Ok, I want the most reliable two for our armory.". That's really sad that you need to do that.

Garbage, garbage guns, I hate them with a passion.

redneck1861
06-16-2011, 22:13
Not only that, but to be caught deciding between what most of us would consider something of an antique (the 92) and a purpose built competition gun (with a fiber optic front sight) is particularly puzzling.


I really just dont like the idea of having to carry something I dont like, and cant customize to how I like it.

He carried the beretta in the Army so thats why he likes it.

It is not for sure if we will get issued guns yet, he wants to get us certified to carry the Tazer x2

lens
06-22-2011, 07:06
Any depts out there switching their duty weapon the the S&W M&P? If so I just wanted your take on the transition and how your dept has adaptede to this weapon so far. we are currently issued the Sig 226/229 DAK in 40
thanks
1SG

I just sent you a PM with some contact info . . . and now I just remembered another one. A friend is an instructor with MSP in New Braintree and was telling me last month that they might be transitioning to M&Ps as well (he's been evaluating them). If you want his contact info just PM me.

My former PD transitioned from Sig 229/239s in 40 to the M&P 45 and everyone seems to be very happy with it. They were giving serious thought to getting the M&P 40, but at the suggestion of myself and some other gun-savvy officers they did a side-by-side evaluation of the 40 and 45 and found everyone preferred the 45 (and scores reflected that as well). The sharp recoil of the 40 (the ballistics of the round, not specific to any gun model) puts officers off that aren't "shooters" and their qual scores suffer as a result.

The interchangeable grips are a blessing as not everyone's hand is the same size. As an experiment I tried shooting my M&Ps with Medium grips and then tried the Small grip. Although the Medium felt comfortable in my hand, my groups were significantly better with the Small (I have relatively small hands for a male), so that is what I use. I found this to be true for me with both the M&P 45 and M&P 9.

The one downside to the M&P is that the trigger pulls are vastly different gun to gun OOB. I asked armorers from both PDs that I sent you contact info on to measure a number of random samples before they deployed the guns and they confirmed this for me. Unlike Glocks where the triggers are consistent from gun to gun, for some reason the M&P is nowhere near as good OOB. My M&P 45 OOB measured 11# . . . after 700 rds it measured 8#. My M&P 9 OOB measured 8# OOB but was gritty as hell. Since I am no longer with any PD and thus not constrained with any rules, I had a gunsmith do 5# trigger jobs on both guns. If your officers will seriously practice with the guns, the triggers will indeed smooth out and be quite reasonable.

taco101
06-22-2011, 17:37
We switched to M&P45's last year. The triggers suck at first but shoot in. Everybody that has gone through my transition course has qualified about 6% higher. I have since bought the 9 Pro, and 9c. Love the platform.

I put my folks through a 10 hour transition. About 600 rounds or so per shooter.

If i could carry anything.....i would carry the M&P40.

phred119
06-22-2011, 18:14
I just sent you a PM with some contact info . . . and now I just remembered another one. A friend is an instructor with MSP in New Braintree and was telling me last month that they might be transitioning to M&Ps as well (he's been evaluating them). If you want his contact info just PM me.

My former PD transitioned from Sig 229/239s in 40 to the M&P 45 and everyone seems to be very happy with it. They were giving serious thought to getting the M&P 40, but at the suggestion of myself and some other gun-savvy officers they did a side-by-side evaluation of the 40 and 45 and found everyone preferred the 45 (and scores reflected that as well). The sharp recoil of the 40 (the ballistics of the round, not specific to any gun model) puts officers off that aren't "shooters" and their qual scores suffer as a result.

The interchangeable grips are a blessing as not everyone's hand is the same size. As an experiment I tried shooting my M&Ps with Medium grips and then tried the Small grip. Although the Medium felt comfortable in my hand, my groups were significantly better with the Small (I have relatively small hands for a male), so that is what I use. I found this to be true for me with both the M&P 45 and M&P 9.

The one downside to the M&P is that the trigger pulls are vastly different gun to gun OOB. I asked armorers from both PDs that I sent you contact info on to measure a number of random samples before they deployed the guns and they confirmed this for me. Unlike Glocks where the triggers are consistent from gun to gun, for some reason the M&P is nowhere near as good OOB. My M&P 45 OOB measured 11# . . . after 700 rds it measured 8#. My M&P 9 OOB measured 8# OOB but was gritty as hell. Since I am no longer with any PD and thus not constrained with any rules, I had a gunsmith do 5# trigger jobs on both guns. If your officers will seriously practice with the guns, the triggers will indeed smooth out and be quite reasonable.

Pardon my ignorace...but what is "OOB"?

lens
06-23-2011, 08:35
Pardon my ignorace...but what is "OOB"?

OOB = Out of the box

1SGMP
06-23-2011, 11:39
I just sent you a PM with some contact info . . . and now I just remembered another one. A friend is an instructor with MSP in New Braintree and was telling me last month that they might be transitioning to M&Ps as well (he's been evaluating them). If you want his contact info just PM me.

My former PD transitioned from Sig 229/239s in 40 to the M&P 45 and everyone seems to be very happy with it. They were giving serious thought to getting the M&P 40, but at the suggestion of myself and some other gun-savvy officers they did a side-by-side evaluation of the 40 and 45 and found everyone preferred the 45 (and scores reflected that as well). The sharp recoil of the 40 (the ballistics of the round, not specific to any gun model) puts officers off that aren't "shooters" and their qual scores suffer as a result.

The interchangeable grips are a blessing as not everyone's hand is the same size. As an experiment I tried shooting my M&Ps with Medium grips and then tried the Small grip. Although the Medium felt comfortable in my hand, my groups were significantly better with the Small (I have relatively small hands for a male), so that is what I use. I found this to be true for me with both the M&P 45 and M&P 9.

The one downside to the M&P is that the trigger pulls are vastly different gun to gun OOB. I asked armorers from both PDs that I sent you contact info on to measure a number of random samples before they deployed the guns and they confirmed this for me. Unlike Glocks where the triggers are consistent from gun to gun, for some reason the M&P is nowhere near as good OOB. My M&P 45 OOB measured 11# . . . after 700 rds it measured 8#. My M&P 9 OOB measured 8# OOB but was gritty as hell. Since I am no longer with any PD and thus not constrained with any rules, I had a gunsmith do 5# trigger jobs on both guns. If your officers will seriously practice with the guns, the triggers will indeed smooth out and be quite reasonable.
Hi
I replied to your PM thanks again. I willcontact MSP and see what they say. Iam not a hugh S&W auto fan to be honest, but i will train and train with what i am issued
thanks again

stinx
06-26-2011, 16:24
My Dept in Ma issues full size with TLR-1 light to all patrol officers,Admin and Detectives get M&P 40 compacts. We love the guns and have had no real issues with them. Our prior weapon was a Beretta. Qual scores have improved signifigantly and our armorers life is much easier. Our Berettas were tolerated by the officers, but few really liked them. Since we got the M&P's we actually have guys buying compact M&P's with thier own money.

collim1
06-26-2011, 16:51
I'd be real upset if the boss told me I had to give up my 100% reliable P226 that I have been carrying for years now.

Unless it was to replace it with a P220 and TLR-1:supergrin:

361cop
06-27-2011, 11:51
A dept I used to work for went to the .40 M&P when they first came out. I loved the gun, the way it fit my hand, the way it shoot right out of the box. Loved it so much I went out and bought my own.

GeorgiaRedfish
06-27-2011, 13:12
Atlanta Police Department uses them.

S. Kelly
06-27-2011, 14:50
My dept tested the gen 4 G22 up against the S&W M&P40. The Glock went 8000 rounds, trouble free, without cleaning, in 2-3 weeks. It was fired by people coming down to re-qualify, union guys and range staff.
The M&P40 came with a box of spare parts and an armorer. Our range guys wondered about that. They found out why quickly. The gun broke a part and locked up in the first magazine and once thereafter. We (rank and file, range staff and unions) didn't like that and think the 4th gen G22/23 is the way to go for reliability.
The S&W did get high marks for ergos and was accurate. Nobody liked the trigger.
Political forces are pushing the S&W. For whatever convoluted reason, I do not know.
We've carried Glocks since 1988 without any trouble, but someone's pushing the M&P down our throats.

JohnnyReb
06-27-2011, 15:38
Just being in MA is probably why Kelly. We had has SOO many issues with the M&P, I pray I never have to rely on it to save my life.

jnc36rcpd
06-27-2011, 16:43
The city north of us went to the M&P several years ago. As far as I can determine, they've had good success with them. Officers have a choice of 9mm, .40, or .45.

JohnnyReb and SKelly, what issues did your agencs have with them?

BIGGUNS911
06-27-2011, 17:42
Washington State Patrol went to them under a year ago. The detachment I work with likes them very much. They traded gun for gun from H&K USP's to S&W M&P40. According to all I have talked with their scores went up and overall they like the guns.

My department is looking at them and we are T&E'ing, Glock, S&W, Springfield XDM and possibly sigs. The one M&P I shot I did not like the trigger at all. Mushy, long, bad reset and over all just not a good feeling trigger. We will see how it all comes out.

stinx
06-27-2011, 19:09
Lowell Ma just went to them do numerous problems with thier 3 year old Sig P-229 DAKs. My buddy loves his and says most of the officers feel the same.

JohnnyReb
06-28-2011, 02:55
The city north of us went to the M&P several years ago. As far as I can determine, they've had good success with them. Officers have a choice of 9mm, .40, or .45.

JohnnyReb and SKelly, what issues did your agencs have with them?

Broken slide stops, roll pins backing out, trapping the weapon in the holster, broken magazine catches, numerous failures to fire (I personally had at least 4 in 1,000 rds when I initally qualified), loose rear sights (as if the dovetail is too large), magazines popping out on their own, you name it.

Bill Lumberg
06-28-2011, 06:49
We had a regional office T&E them, and darn near committ to switching. The M&P rep provided guns, healthy buyback, and had them woooed, but problems resulted in their staying with glock. Any depts out there switching their duty weapon the the S&W M&P? If so I just wanted your take on the transition and how your dept has adaptede to this weapon so far. we are currently issued the Sig 226/229 DAK in 40
thanks
1SG

JohnnyReb
06-28-2011, 07:40
Personally, I really don't mind what I have to carry, so as long as its reliable. I can adapt to its function, and with practice, I can shoot reasonably.

I could name many, many guns I would rather carry then the M&P.

To be fair, the newer M&Ps have several changes which make them more reliable, but confidence lost is never truly ever regained.

jnc36rcpd
06-28-2011, 08:25
The magazine on my personally owned M&P40 started spontaneously ejecting when the weapon was fired. S&W repaired that, but the slide stop became somewhat inconsistent in allowing me to release the slide. While the weapon always went into battery when I racked the slide, I'd prefer the option to use the slide stop. This is especially true since the slide frequently released when a magazine was inserted with any vigor. Since that happened so often, it made sense to have a manual of arms that used the slide stop to move the slide into battery (saving motion in racking the slide).

The weapon seems to be up and running now, but I'd have to put significantly more rounds down range with it before I carried it as an off-duty weapon. You're right about loss of confidence in a weapon.

JohnnyReb
06-28-2011, 09:20
The magazine on my personally owned M&P40 started spontaneously ejecting when the weapon was fired. S&W repaired that, but the slide stop became somewhat inconsistent in allowing me to release the slide. While the weapon always went into battery when I racked the slide, I'd prefer the option to use the slide stop. This is especially true since the slide frequently released when a magazine was inserted with any vigor. Since that happened so often, it made sense to have a manual of arms that used the slide stop to move the slide into battery (saving motion in racking the slide).

The weapon seems to be up and running now, but I'd have to put significantly more rounds down range with it before I carried it as an off-duty weapon. You're right about loss of confidence in a weapon.

On my personal M&P40, the slide 99% of the time, will release when a mag is inserted with force. Personally, I don't like it, because I train to slingshot the slide. While in rapid fire/rapid reload drills, this can definitely throw you off for a second.

The only reason I have a personal M&P is to practice on my own time, if not for that, I would most definitely sell it.

pal2511
06-28-2011, 10:04
I wish we could carry our own weapons. I only know one person that has a m&p and he likes it. Never had an issue when we went through the academy. To bad our Chief said we would have glocks forever!

Morris
06-28-2011, 12:05
The challenge is to speak to agencies that have used them originally (as in within the first year they came out) and those buying the latest generation of the M&P.

I do plan and asking in the M&P armorer's course next month as to why Smith is not producing better trigger systems from the start. Of all the users I have interviewed in LE, almost universally you will hear "Great ergos! Sucky trigger!" Should Smith remedy that to near Glock feel, especially in the reset department, they will see more interest.

In all fairness to Smith, they have been more responsive to issues than dear Austria. Even the US reps and armorers admit Austria's wing of Glock hampers solving things quickly.

I was one of those who held off for a long time. But the more I shoot and yes, abuse, my M&Ps, the more I find them to gain traction in my Glock kool aide hardened heart.

But if you are in LE and looking at them, go beyond T&E. Interview agencies. Ask honest questions and get honest input. Burn cases of ammo through them AND then decide. Yeah, I know. Too often, politics and "cheaper is best" plays a role in command staff deciding.

razdog76
06-28-2011, 14:08
They do make much better triggers for the M&P, hence the M&P Pro which has a tool steel sear, and is much better out of the box. Prior to S&W producing that line, Apex was making a replacement tool steel sear.

The obvious answer is that these agencies are not concerned about details like that, otherwise the individual officer would have much more latitude in what they are carrying.

Morris
06-28-2011, 14:41
The obvious answer is that these agencies are not concerned about details like that, otherwise the individual officer would have much more latitude in what they are carrying.

Sadly, truth.

Calico Jack
07-02-2011, 15:12
We like 'em at NCDOC. Very few issues transitioning from the crappy M65s to the M&P40s. Qual scores increased also. Of course, we still have a few rocket scientists who refer to their trusty M&P40 as a 'revolvah'. :upeyes:

Hey Vigilant,

Does DOC have the M&P40's with the thumb safety and the mag safety?

lens
07-02-2011, 21:57
The magazine on my personally owned M&P40 started spontaneously ejecting when the weapon was fired. S&W repaired that, but the slide stop became somewhat inconsistent in allowing me to release the slide. While the weapon always went into battery when I racked the slide, I'd prefer the option to use the slide stop. This is especially true since the slide frequently released when a magazine was inserted with any vigor. Since that happened so often, it made sense to have a manual of arms that used the slide stop to move the slide into battery (saving motion in racking the slide).


The "slide stop" is meant to stop the slide from going back into battery. However, in most guns it is NOT designed as a "slide Release" and if you use it as such, the metal will fatigue and fail (you'll need to replace it often). Most "slide stops" for modern guns are thin sheet-metal and can't take the abuse of using them to release a slide under significant spring pressure frequently. [IIRC the Glock "slide stop" is similarly made from thin sheet-metal.] Hence the recommendation by most mfrs, instructors and gunsmiths to "slingshot" the slide.

Mags ejecting were an early design problem on the M&P 40 that I remember reading about. S&W did a bit of re-design and solved that problem IIRC.

New York Hunter
07-03-2011, 00:09
The fine men and women of the Syracuse, NY Police Department (about 480 officers) have been using M&P 45's for a few years now. I've shot with an officer on SPD and talk to him from time to time, he's a gun guy and great guy altogether. I guess they like them and have had good luck with them. He was pretty excited when the compact M&P 45 came out. The SPD has used Smith & Wesson handguns for as far as I can remember. IIRC, they've been using S&W 45 ACP's of one sort or another since they switched from revolvers to semi auto's years ago. I liked their 4506 45's. He's also issued an M&P15.

I shot a M&P 40 a few years back. Got a guy at work who buys all sorts of guns, tries them, sells them and loses all kinds of money while doing it, but to each their own. He bought a M&P 40. He shot it and said it was the most inaccurate pistol he ever shot. He sold it to another guy at work. He also said he couldn't shoot it that good either. We went to hunting camp and they asked me if I wanted to shoot it. They hung a target with about a 9 inch circle in the center of it. I fired the 10 rounds in the magazine through it. At about 10 yards all ten shots were well within the 9 inch circle, most being inside 1/3 of the circle. I made sure the chamber was clear, handed the gun back to the owner and said to both of them, "there isn't anything wrong with this pistol. Stop buying guns, shooting them twice, then selling them because you can't hit anything with them and stick to a pistol or "operating system" and PRACTICE so you can actually use it"!

Long story, sorry. I shot the M&P really well the one time I shot it. I wouldn't trade my Glock's for M&P's though. Maybe your department can get ahold of SPD or their armors or instructors and see what they say.

Good luck, NYH! :thumbsup:

hikerpaddler
07-03-2011, 06:31
Teaching folks to slingshot has nothing to do with the strength of the part. It's about gross versus fine motor skills. Most dont train enough to be reliably use the lever under stress. That's why we teach it. The "slide stop" is meant to stop the slide from going back into battery. However, in most guns it is NOT designed as a "slide Release" and if you use it as such, the metal will fatigue and fail (you'll need to replace it often). Most "slide stops" for modern guns are thin sheet-metal and can't take the abuse of using them to release a slide under significant spring pressure frequently. [IIRC the Glock "slide stop" is similarly made from thin sheet-metal.] Hence the recommendation by most mfrs, instructors and gunsmiths to "slingshot" the slide.

Mags ejecting were an early design problem on the M&P 40 that I remember reading about. S&W did a bit of re-design and solved that problem IIRC.

lens
07-03-2011, 10:20
Teaching folks to slingshot has nothing to do with the strength of the part. It's about gross versus fine motor skills. Most dont train enough to be reliably use the lever under stress. That's why we teach it.

You are absolutely correct.

However, the thinness of metal will result in a gun repair as well.

S. Kelly
07-03-2011, 10:31
When we were trained on Glock 19s (1989), our instructors taught us to use the slide release with our thumbs for a faster reload. It resulted in us getting sore thumbs, but it also ingrained the movement into us. For some time now, all new hires are taught to reload with the overhand method. I can't break the habit, since it'd take 2 weeks of retraining to overcome it. We barely get 2 qualifications in a year.

merlynusn
07-03-2011, 11:12
Like I said before, we use the M&P 40 and haven't had any problems. It's been about 4 years now (1600+ department). I know our range guys did some serious testing on the gun before going with it. If anyone wants to talk to them about it, I'm sure they'd be more than willing to help out.

DaBigBR
07-03-2011, 12:31
Teaching folks to slingshot has nothing to do with the strength of the part. It's about gross versus fine motor skills. Most dont train enough to be reliably use the lever under stress. That's why we teach it.

Another key to the slingshot method versus the slide stop method is that when done properly, it engages 100% of the power of the recoil spring, which could be the difference between the next round chambering and not chambering in a dirty gun.

razdog76
07-03-2011, 13:11
I can't break the habit, since it'd take 2 weeks of retraining to overcome it. We barely get 2 qualifications in a year.

I cry BS, we only get one!

Lock the slide back, make sure the gun is empty with no live ammunition around, and practice using the slingshot method while watching TV for a couple of evenings while watching TV. Hell, you could be practicing trigger control with dry fire too.

Sure it isn't as cool as having ammo and being at the range, but make use of what you have. Then, make some time to hit the range and reinforce the new skils... the bad guys make time.

Vigilant
07-03-2011, 14:16
Hey Vigilant,

Does DOC have the M&P40's with the thumb safety and the mag safety?


Magazine disconnect safety only. I'm pretty sure they just took what they could get at a steal, rather than ordering it. They raised such a stink about the crappy M65s we had that S&W pretty much just swapped them even, from what I heard.

The range officers like it that way, because all they have to do is snatch the mag out of the holstered gun in the case of someone who is not conducting themselves in a safe manner on the range, and they're done, no questions asked. And yes, we have a few of those rocket scientists among us, unfortunately.

We're a kinder, gentler, more tolerant DOC these days. :upeyes: